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Willie T said:
I think one thing we have failed is that perhaps we are to pray, AND produce Christian acctions and presence on the streets of our cities.

Maybe all of you have been doing that on a daily basis, but my meager efforts toward it would be barely noticeable in St. Petersburg.
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That's how I feel.
 
If we are acting on the do's God has set forth before us we will not have to be concerned with the don'ts as we keep our focus on those things from above where Christ sits at the right hand of the Father as we have been risen with Christ and set our affections on things above and not things on the earth. Colossians 3:1-4.

As god's word never returns void to Him so should it be in us that His word does not become void in the world as we are God's workers in the field as we plant the seeds of the Gospel and God will bring in the harvest.
 
John 15

1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

A vine bears fruit, not by concentrating hard on fruit but simply by abiding in the vine. The "do's" and "dont's" flow naturally from the "dwells". Be a Mary, not a Martha.
 
Willie T said:
I think one thing we have failed is that perhaps we are to pray, AND produce Christian actions and presence on the streets of our cities.
Maybe all of you have been doing that on a daily basis, but my meager efforts toward it would be barely noticeable in St. Petersburg.
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Dear brother, don't underestimate the power of your individual prayers. James said it this way in Jas 5:16 . . . The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much, and in Christ you meet every criterion of that qualification.

Every so often I see reports of certain ones soliciting prayer warriors which I suppose they think have greater influence persuading our Father to change the world. I say your meager efforts are exactly what we are asked to do that it might go well with us. :)
 
New Day Coming said:
A vine bears fruit, not by concentrating hard on fruit but simply by abiding in the vine. The "do's" and "dont's" flow naturally from the "dwells".
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If it just comes naturally, then why is a major part of the teaching of the NT Letters about how to act (bear fruit)?
Why does James say: "...be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."? (Jas 1:22)

If bearing fruit just comes naturally then why did Jesus say: “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."? (Mat 5:16)

If we can just "abide" and not worry about doing then why would Paul think it necessary to say the following?
Eph 4:21-32
if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,”[fn] for we are members of one another. “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil.

Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

IMO, a Gospel that does not make it very clear that it is necessary for a believer in Christ to "bear fruits worthy of repentance" and to do the "good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them"(Eph 2:10) is an incomplete Gospel which will lead people to be hearers of the word but not doers thereby deceiving those who would be saved and preparing the hear Christ say to them: "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me." (Mat 25;41-43)

iakov the fool
 
New Day Coming said:
Jim Parker

Just for clarity, I believe in the importance of a life of fruitfulness,
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Amen . no fruit--->fire
but the motivation has to be love, not obligation
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Not everyone can do that, Some folks are so damaged that their ability to love is broken.
In that case, obedience will suffice.
and the strength to achieve it His, not ours.
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His strength, yes.
And our co-operation. (God doesn't force us to do anything.)


iakov the fool
 
Jim Parker

"Amen . no fruit--->fire"

You could read this two ways, I guess...

One would lead you to the view that fruit is evidence of salvation (i.e. no smoke without fire), the other would suggest that fruitfulness saves you (something I doubt you believe).

A lot of confusion seems to ensue over the judgement of a Christian's works and of whether they are truly saved and "in Christ".

A fruit tree grows fruit because it is a fruit tree. The presence of the fruit indicates it is a fruit tree. The fruit "cost" the tree as energy and nutrients are diverted from other parts to produce the fruit. Hanging fruit on a pine tree might give the impression of a fruit tree, but it doesn't make it one.

I'm pretty sure you and I see eye to eye on this, if not on the "ancient" codex ;-)
 
New Day Coming said:
Jim Parker

"Amen . no fruit--->fire"

You could read this two ways, I guess...

One would lead you to the view that fruit is evidence of salvation (i.e. no smoke without fire), the other would suggest that fruitfulness saves you (something I doubt you believe).

A lot of confusion seems to ensue over the judgement of a Christian's works and of whether they are truly saved and "in Christ".

A fruit tree grows fruit because it is a fruit tree. The presence of the fruit indicates it is a fruit tree. The fruit "cost" the tree as energy and nutrients are diverted from other parts to produce the fruit. Hanging fruit on a pine tree might give the impression of a fruit tree, but it doesn't make it one.

I'm pretty sure you and I see eye to eye on this, if not on the "ancient" codex ;-)
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Looks like we do
 
New Day Coming said:
Great! What's your story, Jim? How did you come to Jesus? What's your background?
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Raised RC.
After college went into Army 5 years and forgot about Jesus.
Got married; had 2 kids and thought, "These kids need to go to church."
A family friend suggested I go to a Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship dinner so I did.
That was all she wrote.
Been serving Him ever since.
 
Jim Parker said:
Raised RC.
After college went into Army 5 years and forgot about Jesus.
Got married; had 2 kids and thought, "These kids need to go to church."
A family friend suggested I go to a Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship dinner so I did.
That was all she wrote.
Been serving Him ever since.
Click to expand...

Wow - I went to quite a few FGBMFI meetings when I was a teen and by dad took me. One time I heard a young Paul Jinadu speak about his experiences of coming out of Islam and seeing a vision of Jesus. Years later I find he is still going strong! I became a Christian one Christmas morning when I was about eight listening to Paid on the Nail by Graham Kendrick (giving my age away a bit ;-)


God bless
 
Jeremiah 31:33 KJV
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

New Testament says about the same.

So what does law in the heart do?
Convicts us of our sin.

So then what does the law in our mind do?
Convinces us of our righteousness.

Romans 7:25 KJV
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

If we mush mind and flesh together we form two groups.
Group A
Talks about sin

Group B
Talks about righteousness (hopefully the righteousness Jesus provided on the cross).

Actually we have both.
And many tear their clothes, throw dirt in the air and cry out with a loud voice against such heresy.

The word of God is sharp enough to discern all this. In the law is punishment and grace.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Uop
Jim Parker said:
If it just comes naturally, then why is a major part of the teaching of the NT Letters about how to act (bear fruit)?
Why does James say: "...be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."? (Jas 1:22)

If bearing fruit just comes naturally then why did Jesus say: “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."? (Mat 5:16)

If we can just "abide" and not worry about doing then why would Paul think it necessary to say the following?
Eph 4:21-32
if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,”[fn] for we are members of one another. “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil.

Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

IMO, a Gospel that does not make it very clear that it is necessary for a believer in Christ to "bear fruits worthy of repentance" and to do the "good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them"(Eph 2:10) is an incomplete Gospel which will lead people to be hearers of the word but not doers thereby deceiving those who would be saved and preparing the hear Christ say to them: "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me." (Mat 25;41-43)

iakov the fool
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being in Ephesians 4 (your quote area) is good.

The Old Jewish nature
The Old Gentile nature

The eventual one new man Ephesians 2 nature (combining Jew and Gentile).
This change took some time. The apostles went through this nature change.

If we confess our sins he (Jesus) progressively gives / changes our nature.

The Old Covenant II Chronicles 7:14 demanded people do work, but new nature comes as a change in nature. We are involved, but our part is to confess sin.

The spirit of mind:
Ephesians 4:23
Came for the Jews on the Acts day of Pentecost
Came for the Gentiles in Cornelius house later in Acts.

So today a change in nature still exists. Deciding if we are moving from a Jewish nature or a Gentile mindset is the problem for us. But Christ Jesus accomplished the work.

The writers of the major change in acts were more aware than we are.

I was so into the OT for 12 years I was figuratively more Jew than some Jewish people. I was Gentile for 12 previious years.
Now hopefully one new man. That said there was a lapse of years before I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. So due to years in different stages I get some interesting thoughts reading Ephesians.

My suggestion to your question. You may need all the changes. Then you will not fit in in any group having a singular view.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
Willie T said:
Many of us are like members of a football team that have accepted that our coach (God) cannot beat their coach's strategies. We feel Satan is going to win the game no matter what we do. And so we try to content ourselves with only losing "just a few yards" with each play.

I sit here and try my best to understand how steadily losing yardage is ADVANCING anything for our coach.
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We are encouraged to shut up by the louder Cheering of the opposition. The hugh bulk makes their cheers louder than ours, only, because of their number. We must figure it out that the Prophecy of The Revelation of the Christ and the Prophecies of all the Prophets has been completed and from God's point of view, from outside of our Time/Space Continuun, is finished. That is why God has already recorded it, He witnessed it occurring

Oh! If you will read te end of the book it will change your level of cheering... we win!.
 
Romans 8:35 KJV
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

More than a conqueror?
That just does not fit our thinking at times.
If we do not win in the flesh, do we lose?

It is more than winning,

If we are less than a conqueror are we mad and planning our next assault?

Redneck
eddif
 
st.pete is a very hedonistic city in florida, not as bad as other cities but its there.
 
eddif said:
Romans 8:35 KJV
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

More than a conqueror?
That just does not fit our thinking at times.
If we do not win in the flesh, do we lose?

It is more than winning,

If we are less than a conqueror are we mad and planning our next assault?

Redneck
eddif
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