A vow of celibacy

[Alfred Persson]

So I just reread Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.....I did not find any reference to a specific "Temple", I did not see any thing which said the Law of Moses (the 10 Commandments, as an example) no longer applied.

Thank you for the video links, but I don't need "men" to tell me anything about God. I do understand, and accept, that a whole lot of Christians are not going to survive this. While I wish I could change that, obedience to God will not be forced; those who will not do so of their own free will, will be destroyed.

Thank you for this conversation, but I'll not post to this topic again.

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (Matt. 24:1-2 KJV)

Elementary deduction is required to read with comprehension and interpret scripture correctly.

Only the Jewish Temple existed in Jesus' day, that He would have "departed" from. Only the Jewish Temple was there for the disciples to "shew Him" its buildings. Therefore, when Jesus prophesied specifying "all these things" would NOT have a "stone upon stone" left, only the Jewish Temple can be the "specific Temple" Christ referred to.

Interpretation is a skill one acquires by studying the "rules for interpretation", to interpret soundly. There are books that teach it:

Although I haven't read it, the following seems to be good place to start:

The Bible in Context: A Methodology for Interpreting the Bible Paperback – September 28, 2022​

by Jason Hensley (Author)

Any book that teaches reading with comprehension will accomplish the same thing.

 

[donadams]

I do apologize if you are offended; and you can consider it a smear if that is what you need to do.

But I do have a question; Christ says the Scriptures cannot be broken John 10:35. God said be fruitful and multiply Genesis 1:22. How can Paul, or any other man; change what God said?

When did christ fulfill this commandment?

The old covenant was carnal and prepared the way for Christ and the new covenant of grace.

The new covenant is physical but also spiritual, Christians are to be fruitful (Jn 15:4) and multiply as the apostolic church covers the earth!

There is no sin or disobedience to God to dedicate your life to God and the gospel of Jesus Christ!

Celibacy is not a doctor but a discipline.

Yes a typical fundamentalist ploy!

Can you be saved without a priest?

 

[donadams]

Hi Enlightenedtruth

While I agree that the story may not be accurate in describing the idea of celibacy for the pastors and teachers, we do all know that Peter had a wife. I find it amazing that there is a branch of the faith that claims Peter to be the beginning of their faith, and then go and make rules that would condemn him because he was married.

God bless,
Ted

Nonsense!

Celibacy is a discipline not a doctrine and therefore can change unlike truth that is immutable!

 

[donadams]

Hi Alfred Persson

Just a point of order, that is saying that for the individual that is ok with celibacy, then they should practice celibacy. What the RCC teaches is that those who want to be their leaders 'have to' be celibate. The telling that someone must be celibate is not in God's word.

However, there are times that God does ask that His people refrain from sexual relations for a short time.

God bless,
Ted

Really?

Matthew 19:29
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, orfather, or mother, or wife, orchildren, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Don’t sound like “salvation by faith alone” either!

 

[miamited]

Hi donadams

Celibacy is a discipline not a doctrine and therefore can change unlike truth that is immutable!

Yes, that's what I said. It's a personal discipline much like the vow of the Nazerite in Jesus' day. And of course the Scriptures explain it to us as something that an individual might invest in, but clearly states that for those who aren't so disciplined that they should marry so that they don't burn with lusts. For many, many priests and bishops, etc., we see often the results of 'making' someone hold to a discipline that they aren't really sincere about.

Really?

Matthew 19:29
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, orfather, or mother, or wife, orchildren, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Don’t sound like “salvation by faith alone” either!

You'll have to be more clear about how that addresses my post.

God bless,
Ted

 

[donadams]

I reject your premise, that Paul or Jesus changed God's Word. Perhaps you need to review who Jesus is, the prophet after Moses everyone is commanded to heed. The "change" to Christ from law, is foretold in the OT.

Jesus changed the commandments matt 5:21-22 & Matt 5:27-28

 

[donadams]

Elementary deduction is required to read scripture with understanding. The Old Covenant was replaced by the New, therefore the "old law" was replaced by the "new law". Not overwritten, it has no more force.

Christ predicted the Temple would be destroyed. God did that to end all possibility the Law of Moses could be practiced.

Christ alone is the way and the truth to eternal life. Not the law of Moses:

15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear,
16 "according to all you desired of the LORD your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying,`Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.'
17 "And the LORD said to me:`What they have spoken is good.
18 `I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him.
19 `And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. (Deut. 18:15-19 NKJ)
I recommend learning "critical thinking", without it one cannot rightly divide God's Word of truth:

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Tim. 2:15 KJV)
There are Study Bibles that guide students to ask the main questions one must answer to understand the text they are reading:

Regarding the existence of evil:

Now Ther has a the new covenant temple, altar, sacrifice and priesthood! Amen

 

[donadams]

I'm not Roman Catholic, the papacy is unscriptural. There's a lot of legit scriptural reasons to reject Roman Catholicism, without resorting to baseless smear.

I never said one must be celibate. Its odd you see that in my responses, or see me agreeing with Catholics requiring it of others. My responses gave the scriptural view, against Roman Catholic dogma.

Try reading them again.

The papacy is ordained by Christ!
The apostolic church is of divine origin!

No king administers His own kingdom but appoints a prime minister and cabinet (Peter and the apostles) and the fact that Christ does not remain personally here on earth but ascended to heaven and gave his kingdom to the apostles! Lk 22:29

Isa 22:21-22 Matt 15:18-19

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

The papacy is ordained by Christ!

I do apologize for offending you; but I did say in a subsequent post this is not about Catholic's or their "belief's". This is about one man claiming to speak for God, and the adverse result of that.

I do not know the Catholic Bible, but I believe there are a few more Book's contained in it; than in the NKJV or other's. I in no way dismiss your belief's, or those of any other. The False Prophet will claim to speak for God in the beginning; and many Christians will follow him, because many will not accept the truth. While I wish that wasn't the case, I cannot and would not change it.

Putting your Faith in any man, or the word of a man; will not lead you to the Light. The Angel's who will wake and walk this earth will not claim "God sent me" nor that they "are being guided by the Holy Spirit".

 

[donadams]

Hi donadams

Yes, that's what I said. It's a personal discipline much like the vow of the Nazerite in Jesus' day. And of course the Scriptures explain it to us as something that an individual might invest in, but clearly states that for those who aren't so disciplined that they should marry so that they don't burn with lusts. For many, many priests and bishops, etc., we see often the results of 'making' someone hold to a discipline that they aren't really sincere about.

You'll have to be more clear about how that addresses my post.

God bless,
Ted

Then you are free to marry but not be a priest dedicated to God, Christ and the gospel
But there are rites in the church where priest are permitted to marry as well

 

[donadams]

I do apologize for offending you; but I did say in a subsequent post this is not about Catholic's or their "belief's". This is about one man claiming to speak for God, and the adverse result of that.

I do not know the Catholic Bible, but I believe there are a few more Book's contained in it; than in the NKJV or other's. I in no way dismiss your belief's, or those of any other. The False Prophet will claim to speak for God in the beginning; and many Christians will follow him, because many will not accept the truth. While I wish that wasn't the case, I cannot and would not change it.

Putting your Faith in any man, or the word of a man; will not lead you to the Light. The Angel's who will wake and walk this earth will not claim "God sent me" nor that they "are being guided by the Holy Spirit".

Not one man but Peter and the apostles

In a council of the apostolic church hundreds of bishops are gathered and the pope does not attend!

Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Not one man but Peter and the apostles

In a council of the apostolic church hundreds of bishops are gathered and the pope does not attend!

Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

None of this is about Catholic's, Protestants of even Jews (or any other major religious belief's that involve the one true God); the people can and will believe whatever they choose.

The theological discussion is about "men who claim to be servants of the most high God"; who in fact serve only themselves. This "concept" was going on 2,000+ years ago; and it still goes on to this day. And it always comes down to wealth and power (and generally greed). The few preachers I've interacted with over the past couple years; gave me the impression most were more in it for the money and an easy life (without labor or worry for their own well-being). To hold "influence" over other people, even a small congregation; also seems to be a powerful draw from some of these men.

 

[donadams]

None of this is about Catholic's, Protestants of even Jews (or any other major religious belief's that involve the one true God); the people can and will believe whatever they choose.

The theological discussion is about "men who claim to be servants of the most high God"; who in fact serve only themselves. This "concept" was going on 2,000+ years ago; and it still goes on to this day. And it always comes down to wealth and power (and generally greed). The few preachers I've interacted with over the past couple years; gave me the impression most were more in it for the money and an easy life (without labor or worry for their own well-being). To hold "influence" over other people, even a small congregation; also seems to be a powerful draw from some of these men.

Where do you get this concept that we are free to believe whatever we want?

Our religion is of divine origin and is revealed by Christ with a command to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Where do you get this concept that we are free to believe whatever we want?

My meaning was the different doctrines; Lutheran, Methodist, etc. Not everyone follows the path of the Catholic's; and not everyone follows that Bible, but still walk the path to Salvation. Being a good person, and doing the right thing; does not require any "Church" to give that instruction. God's Law applies, whether a person walks with that Bible or not.

 

[donadams]

My meaning was the different doctrines; Lutheran, Methodist, etc. Not everyone follows the path of the Catholic's; and not everyone follows that Bible, but still walk the path to Salvation. Being a good person, and doing the right thing; does not require any "Church" to give that instruction. God's Law applies, whether a person walks with that Bible or not.

Not true! There is only one Christ who saves us from sin, one new covenant church, one revealed truth!

 

[Tenchi]

I wasn't sure if this was the right thread, but theology is about belief's (but I'm not Catholic). The story I will tell was not something I did witness; but I trust the one who gave me this information.

There was a Cardinal who did covet the wife of an underling (clerk or secretary). He could not kill the man, and take the wife; because the man came from a wealthy and powerful family. He could not send the man away, and keep the wife for himself. So this Cardinal decided to speak to the Pope; he told him that God Himself had spoken to him during his Prayers and told him that clergy who served God must be pure of body, heart and mind; and all clergy below the rank of Cardinal needed to immediately take a vow of celibacy. For those who were married, they must abandon their wives and stop all sexual activity. The Cardinal did have that mans wife for a brief time; until he saw another woman to lust after.

For more than fifteen hundred years, thousands of men (monks) and women (nuns) have disobeyed God's Command to "be fruitful"; all because a single man did covet the wife of another, and claimed that "God did say it to him". Father does not contradict Himself, He does not mislead; He does however expect all of us to obey Him, and to seek the truth.

I'm not clear as to your reason for posting this. As has already been pointed out, you've given no good reason whatever to believe the story you've offered. Certainly, that it is something you think is true in no way obliges others to think so, too. Really, this story reminds me of the sort of thing a gossip would share. I'm not saying you're a gossip; I'm just saying the flavor of the story is of the unfounded and slanderous sort typical of the baseless rumor of the gossip.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Not true! There is only one Christ who saves us from sin, one new covenant church, one revealed truth!

Matthew 7:21
Romans 2:13-14

Gentiles who do not know the law, but still abide by the law.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

I'm not clear as to your reason for posting this. As has already been pointed out, you've given no good reason whatever to believe the story you've offered. Certainly, that it is something you think is true in no way obliges others to think so, too. Really, this story reminds me of the sort of thing a gossip would share. I'm not saying you're a gossip; I'm just saying the flavor of the story is of the unfounded and slanderous sort typical of the baseless rumor of the gossip.

I do not expect anyone to believe what I say. The point was how a man even 1,600 years ago would stand as a false prophet; throughout history there have always been men who "claim to serve the Lord", when their actions (their works) show something different.

Not all of that was ever "written" into the history books; history was "written" by men of wealth and power. It's only been in this more modern world where you can see the priest (and other clergy) being convicted of crimes on a regular basis (not only Catholic child molesters).

 

[Tenchi]

I do not expect anyone to believe what I say. The point was how a man even 1,600 years ago would stand as a false prophet; throughout history there have always been men who "claim to serve the Lord", when their actions (their works) show something different.

But, your point stands on a story that appears to be entirely fictional. If the basis for your point isn't true, if it's just mythological, is your point well-made?

It's pretty obvious to most Christians that there have been a long string of hypocrites and false brethren that have occupied and warped the Church over the last two millennia. What prompted you to remark on this commonly-known fact?

Not all of that was ever "written" into the history books; history was "written" by men of wealth and power.

I'm not sure how you are confident in the reality of past events that are not part of recorded history. There is, of course, much that has really happened that is not in any standard history textbook, but this doesn't mean one can just assert any old thing as having occurred that one wants to assert. Especially if you want others to accept your "history" as factual, more than your mere say-so is necessary, don't you think? (Unless, of course, you're sharing your own personal history about which you have direct, personal, firsthand knowledge.) In any case, it's a bit of a cliched overgeneralization to say that history is written by the wealthy and powerful. This isn't true of the Bible.

It's only been in this more modern world where you can see the priest (and other clergy) being convicted of crimes on a regular basis (not only Catholic child molesters).

Uh huh.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Wasn't Jesus celebate?
There is no record of a wife.

Did He violate God's command?
We have to say no.

If Jesus never had relations with a woman, and He was considered sinless, then being celebate is allowed, and is not a sin.

Is that fair to say?

So when Paul writes,

1 Corinthians 7:1-2 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

and

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.


he is not contradicting Genius 1:28. It is truly a rare person who can control their sexual urges for their whole life. Paul is saying if a person can, it is good.

And by the way, I think we done multipled the earth.
Mission accomplished.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz