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A vow of celibacy

Enlightenedtruth said:
God said "be fruitful"; there was an actual Purpose in Him saying that in Genesis (the beginning). For Christ to not take a wife; he was kind of a busy man, and there was a Purpose in that.
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Hey All,
Yeah, but if it is a command, wouldn't Jesus have to abide by it?
He didn't. So not a command.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
 
Tenchi said:
There is, of course, much that has really happened that is not in any standard history textbook, but this doesn't mean one can just assert any old thing as having occurred that one wants to assert.
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I do agree.

And again, I do not in any way mean to single out Catholics. I believe most of the mainstream religions have had preachers (clergy) who have broken the laws of man and God. And most have had "leaders"; "bishops" (or other titles) who serve the god most high; who covered up the wrong doing to "save face" for the Church itself.

For history 2,000+ years ago, the common people did not know how to read or write. Wealthy people were the only ones who could pay scribes to write things down. Even today, these less developed countries have populations that are illiterate.

For what I wrote, all I can give are the memories that God did return to me. Why He gave me that particular memory; I believe there is someone(s) out there that need to hear (see) it.
 
Josef said:
Yeah, but if it is a command, wouldn't Jesus have to abide by it?
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I do agree that would make sense; but the Son of Man was not here to propagate the human race.

Even today there are people who can not have children because of physical issues; but they do not "disobey God" because of that, God took their physical ability to have children for a reason. Everything does serve God's Purpose, whether we understand it all or not.
 
Enlightenedtruth said:
God does not "ask", He doth Command. There is a reason God did say "be fruitful".

I am curious, where in the Bible does it state that men should refrain from such relations for a short time? I do not recall ever reading that, of course I haven't read every version of the Bible either.
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As a matter of fact, neither Jesus nor any of his original 12 disciples had any biological children, neither did Paul, Timothy or any other prominent apostle. Back in Genesis, childbearing was an idol the matriarches and patriarches worshiped, a woman's value was fully hinged upon the heirs she produced, they were obsessed with childbearing, you can see this attitude in Sarah, Leah and especially Rachel - "Give me children, or else I die!" (Gen. 30:1) Ironically, she did die in the birth of Benjamin. God promised Abraham of numerous descendants, yet he tested his faith by ordering him to sacrifice his only (legitimate) son Isaac. If Isaac were indeed sacrificed, where could these numerous descendants come from? Through Ishmael? There was an infamous fertility doctor, Donald Cline, who inseminated many of his patients with his own sperm, now he may have a hundred children, is that our role model to follow? Therefore it is wrong and naive to take "be fruitful and multiply" as a command of having lots of children. Our calling is to make DISCIPLES in all nations, not babies.
 
Enlightenedtruth said:
I do agree that would make sense; but the Son of Man was not here to propagate the human race.

Even today there are people who can not have children because of physical issues; but they do not "disobey God" because of that, God took their physical ability to have children for a reason. Everything does serve God's Purpose, whether we understand it all or not.
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Hey All,
Could we not argue the same?

The human race has been propagated, some 8,000,000,000 strong.

We are full.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz
 
miamited said:
Hi Enlightenedtruth

While I agree that the story may not be accurate in describing the idea of celibacy for the pastors and teachers, we do all know that Peter had a wife. I find it amazing that there is a branch of the faith that claims Peter to be the beginning of their faith, and then go and make rules that would condemn him because he was married.

God bless,
Ted
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Who condemns Peter because he was married?
 
TO ALL

THIS IS THEOLOGY.
UNFOUNDED IDEAS, IF AT ALL PERMITTED, SHOULD BE USED FOR EXAMPLE ONLY.

PLEASE USE SCRIPTURE TO SUPPORT YOUR POSTS.

THANKS
 
miamited said:
Under the current 'rules' of Catholicism, the pope cannot be married. That organization holds that Peter is their first pope.

God bless,
Ted
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Oh.
Well, actually, marriage was allowed by the clergy until the 12th or 13th century, cant remember.

Anyway, Peter having been married means nothing in the Catholic faith. Peter is honored, not condemned by that church.
 
GodsGrace said:
Oh.
Well, actually, marriage was allowed by the clergy until the 12th or 13th century, cant remember.

Anyway, Peter having been married means nothing in the Catholic faith. Peter is honored, not condemned by that church.
Click to expand...
Hi GodsGrace

Yes, and all of that is just another reason that I question the validity of the teachings of the Catholic organization.

Apparently, God has changed His mind about priests and bishops and popes being married and also whether we can eat meats on Friday. Kind of reminds me of Jesus' caution to those who 'sway like a reed in the wind'. God's word is immutable truth. If it is against His will for us that we not eat meat on Friday, then it has and always will be, against His will. If it is His will that those serving His flock in the positions of leadership not be married, then that will always be the case. Unfortunately, what I'm seeing here is that I'm wrong. His will changes, maybe daily, with the strictures of the Catholic organization.

So, and I don't mean to 'bash' anyone for whatever practice of faith they choose to follow, but I see often, in the Catholic version of christian practice, much the same thing that I have read that Jesus condemned the Jewish leaders for in his day. They have established the laws of man to be above the law of God. It really seems just that simple to me.

I can't find anywhere in all of Scripture that eating meat on Friday was considered any kind of sin or uncleanness. I can't find anywhere in all of the Scriptures that God ever places any restrictions on those who serve Him as leaders of His people that they shouldn't or can't be married. The only mention of one not getting married is as a personal and individual decision that they would choose to make based on their ability to forego having sexual relations in their life. Otherwise, God's word tells us that everyone should be married so that sexual lusts don't lead them to sin. Which is exactly what is being modeled for us with so many of the Catholic organizations leaders falling into the many, many, many sexual sins that they do. God doesn't tell anyone that they can't marry!!! But the Catholic organization does. And again, God addresses that matter also.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times (that is exactly the time we have been in since Jesus ascended to the Father) some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Honestly, as I read that, it paints the perfect picture of exactly what the Catholic organization is doing. I mean, to me, this passage is pointing a direct finger to these issues that the Catholic organization has begun to teach. Just as the description in the Revelation of a woman riding a beast clothed in purple and scarlet. They are pursuing the doctrines of deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons and speaking lies in hypocrisy, by forbidding some to marry and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Now I understand that you may not see it that way. But I'd just caution you to be very, very careful that you're not understanding as you do because that's how you've been taught to understand by an organization that claims of itself to be a Christ like organization; and not by understanding the truth of God's word on these matters. There are literally at least a dozen practices of that organization that are just not what God's word tells us on these matters. Just like Jesus condemned the leaders in Israel in his day. Be careful my friend and do as God's word tells you. Study everything with the mind of Christ. Watch out for deceiving doctrines established by men, even though they will tell you that it's 'their' interpretation of what God's word says. You don't know their hearts... but God does.

God bless,
Ted
 
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miamited said:
Hi GodsGrace

Yes, and all of that is just another reason that I question the validity of the teachings of the Catholic organization.

Apparently, God has changed His mind about priests and bishops and popes being married and also whether we can eat meats on Friday. Kind of reminds me of Jesus' caution to those who 'sway like a reed in the wind'. God's word is immutable truth. If it is against His will for us that we not eat meat on Friday, then it has and always will be, against His will. If it is His will that those serving His flock in the positions of leadership not be married, then that will always be the case. Unfortunately, what I'm seeing here is that I'm wrong. His will changes, maybe daily, with the strictures of the Catholic organization.

So, and I don't mean to 'bash' anyone for whatever practice of faith they choose to follow, but I see often, in the Catholic version of christian practice, much the same thing that I have read that Jesus condemned the Jewish leaders for in his day. They have established the laws of man to be above the law of God. It really seems just that simple to me.

I can't find anywhere in all of Scripture that eating meat on Friday was considered any kind of sin or uncleanness. I can't find anywhere in all of the Scriptures that God ever places any restrictions on those who serve Him as leaders of His people that they shouldn't or can't be married. The only mention of one not getting married is as a personal and individual decision that they would choose to make based on their ability to forego having sexual relations in their life. Otherwise, God's word tells us that everyone should be married so that sexual lusts don't lead them to sin. Which is exactly what is being modeled for us with so many of the Catholic organizations leaders falling into the many, many, many sexual sins that they do. God doesn't tell anyone that they can't marry!!! But the Catholic organization does. And again, God addresses that matter also.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times (that is exactly the time we have been in since Jesus ascended to the Father) some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Honestly, as I read that, it paints the perfect picture of exactly what the Catholic organization is doing. I mean, to me, this passage is pointing a direct finger to these issues that the Catholic organization has begun to teach. Just as the description in the Revelation of a woman riding a beast clothed in purple and scarlet. They are pursuing the doctrines of deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons and speaking lies in hypocrisy, by forbidding some to marry and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Now I understand that you may not see it that way. But I'd just caution you to be very, very careful that you're not understanding as you do because that's how you've been taught to understand by an organization that claims of itself to be a Christ like organization; and not by understanding the truth of God's word on these matters. There are literally at least a dozen practices of that organization that are just not what God's word tells us on these matters. Just like Jesus condemned the leaders in Israel in his day. Be careful my friend and do as God's word tells you. Study everything with the mind of Christ. Watch out for deceiving doctrines established by men, even though they will tell you that it's 'their' interpretation of what God's word says. You don't know their hearts... but God does.

God bless,
Ted
Click to expand...
Ted,
I can't see half of your comment.
Are You able to see it?
(The bottom)
 
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GodsGrace said:
Oh.
Well, actually, marriage was allowed by the clergy until the 12th or 13th century, cant remember.

Anyway, Peter having been married means nothing in the Catholic faith. Peter is honored, not condemned by that church.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I looked it up, turned out celibacy was the solution for rampant nepotism. The pope couldn't allow the church to become a family business. Keep it mind that most noble families' older children inherited family's title and property, youngers often ended up in the Catholic church, evitably they brought in their family's influence.
 
miamited said:
Hi GodsGrace

Yes, and all of that is just another reason that I question the validity of the teachings of the Catholic organization.
Click to expand...

You could question the validity. It's good to question everything.
I've found, however, that the CC seems to base things on scripture in one way or another.

miamited said:
Apparently, God has changed His mind about priests and bishops and popes being married and also whether we can eat meats on Friday.
Click to expand...

The above are CHURCH RULES. I don't really care for church rules because it clouds that and biblical teachings for those that are not familiar with the bible. I just think they should be kept separated, but they're not.

miamited said:
Kind of reminds me of Jesus' caution to those who 'sway like a reed in the wind'. God's word is immutable truth. If it is against His will for us that we not eat meat on Friday, then it has and always will be, against His will. If it is His will that those serving His flock in the positions of leadership not be married, then that will always be the case. Unfortunately, what I'm seeing here is that I'm wrong. His will changes, maybe daily, with the strictures of the Catholic organization.
Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with what God wants. It has to do with the CC trying to teach it's lay persons to have some kind of control over their appetites - literally.

I think when we depart from strict scriptural teachings something negative will happen.
This has certainly been the case for the CC.
The old timers were taught something very different from this new generation and the old timers are not happy about it and it also makes it difficult for the CC to change because of opposition to the old ways.

miamited said:
So, and I don't mean to 'bash' anyone for whatever practice of faith they choose to follow, but I see often, in the Catholic version of christian practice, much the same thing that I have read that Jesus condemned the Jewish leaders for in his day. They have established the laws of man to be above the law of God. It really seems just that simple to me.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say it's above the law of God.
It seems to me that they were trying to keep a reign on their people but, unfortunately, sans teaching them the love of God.

miamited said:
I can't find anywhere in all of Scripture that eating meat on Friday was considered any kind of sin or uncleanness. I can't find anywhere in all of the Scriptures that God ever places any restrictions on those who serve Him as leaders of His people that they shouldn't or can't be married.
Click to expand...

And it's not in there.

miamited said:
The only mention of one not getting married is as a personal and individual decision that they would choose to make based on their ability to forego having sexual relations in their life. Otherwise, God's word tells us that everyone should be married so that sexual lusts don't lead them to sin. Which is exactly what is being modeled for us with so many of the Catholic organizations leaders falling into the many, many, many sexual sins that they do. God doesn't tell anyone that they can't marry!!! But the Catholic organization does. And again, God addresses that matter also.
Click to expand...

I agree. But the priests I know accept the vow they've made. Maybe because it's a small place and everybody knows everything, but they seem to be on a steady course. One (quite a few years ago) asked to be transferred because one of the local girls was attracted to him.

miamited said:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times (that is exactly the time we have been in since Jesus ascended to the Father) some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Click to expand...

LOL
I wouldn't say doctrines of demons!
That's going a bit too far.
Catholics believe in all the tenets of Christianity.
After all, it's that church that kept the faith at the beginning and that gave us the bible we know.

miamited said:
Honestly, as I read that, it paints the perfect picture of exactly what the Catholic organization is doing. I mean, to me, this passage is pointing a direct finger to these issues that the Catholic organization has begun to teach. Just as the description in the Revelation of a woman riding a beast clothed in purple and scarlet. They are pursuing the doctrines of deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons and speaking lies in hypocrisy, by forbidding some to marry and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Click to expand...

There's a reason for each teaching.
And it IS a teaching.

miamited said:
Now I understand that you may not see it that way. But I'd just caution you to be very, very careful that you're not understanding as you do because that's how you've been taught to understand by an organization that claims of itself to be a Christ like organization; and not by understanding the truth of God's word on these matters.
Click to expand...

The CC IS a Christ-like organization.
They taught the truth centuries before the Reformation.
The problem is that they added some teachings to the written word.

miamited said:
There are literally at least a dozen practices of that organization that are just not what God's word tells us on these matters. Just like Jesus condemned the leaders in Israel in his day. Be careful my friend and do as God's word tells you. Study everything with the mind of Christ. Watch out for deceiving doctrines established by men, even though they will tell you that it's 'their' interpretation of what God's word says. You don't know their hearts... but God does.

God bless,
Ted
Click to expand...
Maybe this should be in the Catholic Forum, but what doctrines do you believe are so demonic?
 
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