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Aborted souls?

J

JDM

Member
When does the soul enter in?

The average egg lives for up to 24 hours after release. It needs to be fertilised within this time by a sperm for a baby to be conceived. If the egg meets up with a healthy sperm on its way to the uterus, the process of creating a new life begins. If not, the egg ends its journey at the uterus and disintegrates.

So are we to believe that at conception, when a minuscule sperm and egg unite, a minuscule soul suddenly joins them so enters in?

I suggest emphatically that the soul does not enter in at conception.

God knew that millions and millions of abortions would happen in the last centuries, and so God would have allowed for this horrible human act by planning a more appropriate time for the soul to enter in.

And what happens to the aborted soul is I suppose unanswerable.

I suggest at about 18 weeks (126 days), when the fetus has taken on human form, the soul, along with the spirit, enters in.:shame
 
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Before determining when the soul is placed into the body, understanding what we really are would be in order.

The REAL you is in fact a spirit-being/soul that has been temporarily "locked" inside a human-animal body. The reason why this has happened is explained in the last book of the Bible, specifically in Revelation 12:7-9.

We have been placed in these bodies to learn from God and the angels of heaven how to be good (Genesis 1:26).

Applying this to when the soul/spirit-being is actually placed into the body, it would serve no useful purpose for the soul to enter into a baby while it is still inside the womb of a woman's body as there would be no way for God to teach it how to be good in that environment.

A short period of time after the birth of the baby it undergoes a change, where it suddenly has recognition and awareness. THAT is when the soul/spirit-being enters the body, along with the Holy Spirit (the good voice inside everyone's head) and the devil (the enemy within).

We have to separate our REAL Life (spiritual and immortal) from the human life to SEE things as they really are, just as Jesus told us (John 3:3-13).

If we do that, it should become clear that there have been millions of human babies aborted, because of our arrogance/ignorance in disobeying God, but there has never been an aborted soul/spirit-being.
 
So are we to believe that at conception, when a minuscule sperm and egg unite, a minuscule soul suddenly joins them so enters in?

I suggest emphatically that the soul does not enter in at conception.
Click to expand...

If the determination of what is true is made by what is suggested, then a world of flexible reality unfolds, as indeed many think it has. Satan told Eve, "you shall be as gods". This has come to fruition in that many think they are god by creating their own reality.

Isaiah 44:2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

made = ‛âśâh = A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application:

formed = yâtsar = probably identical with H3334 (through the squeezing into shape); (compare H3331); to mould into a form; especially as a potter; figuratively to determine (that is, form a resolution): - X earthen, fashion, form, frame, make (-r), potter, purpose.

A declaration is made, "the Lord that made thee". A finer point is put on it, "and formed the from the womb". In effect the point is made that the Lord is involved at every point of our lives so we can completely trust the Lord and have no fear.

1 Samuel 1:5 But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the LORD had shut up her womb.

Here we see the purview of the Lord extends to conception.

Job 31:15 Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?

fashion = kûn = A primitive root; properly to be erect (that is, stand perpendicular);. hence (causatively) to set up

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

At what point did Jesus start to be holy?

Luke 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

John the Baptist who was six months older than Jesus reacted to his Lord when he was still in the womb.
 
Genesis 2:
<SUP>7</SUP> Then God formed man from the dust of the ground, breathed the breath of life against his face, and He became a living creature.

Living creature in the above passage is synonomous with soul (please click on the hyperlink for more info). Saying man became a soul is telling the reader that rather than man getting a soul at some point after conception, that man never "gets" a soul because man, like other animals IS A LIVING SOUL.
 
God is the creator of life He breathed into man the 'breath of life'. The scriptures do not say He breathed the 'breath of life' into the critters.
 
nehesh is the word for that and all things that take in o2 breathe! that means means animals have that as well and a nephesh does mean spirit at times.
 
reba said:
God is the creator of life He breathed into man the 'breath of life'. The scriptures do not say He breathed the 'breath of life' into the critters.
Click to expand...

Ecclesiastes 3:19 says man and "critters" share this ame breath or spirit.

18 I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts. 19 For an event is to the sons of man, and an event is to the beasts, even one event is to them; as the death of this, so is the death of that; and one spirit is to all, and the advantage of man above the beast is nothing, for the whole is vanity. 20 The whole are going unto one place, the whole have been from the dust, and the whole are turning back unto the dust. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of the sons of man that is going up on high, and the spirit of the beast that is going down below to the earth?
Click to expand...
 
From Gen 2:7

H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

From Ecc 3:19
H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).


No Hebrew/ Greek scholar here ! "Strongs" is my only Hebrew/Greek friend. These seem to me to be different words... While reading Ecc i am getting a picture of down the lines of man without God is not much different then the critters.

Thoughts?
 
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reba said:
From Gen 2:7

H5397
נשׁמה
neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'
From H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

From Ecc 3:19
H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).


No Greek scholar here ! "Strongs" is my only Greek friend. These seem to me to be different words... While reading Ecc i am getting a picture of down the lines of man without God is not much different then the critters.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
ruach and nephesh are hebrew words
 
opps! lol at myself i will fix that


At least i know you read that......


I have read your link Jason i will have to read it a few more times
 
OK, this is what my arithmetic indicates.

"John the Baptist who was six months older than Jesus reacted to his Lord when he was still in the womb."

God told Moses to follow lunar time and not Sun time.
The festival (synodical) lunar month is 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes 02.8 seconds.
Assuming the six months are lunar (and why not?) then six months = 177.1835 days and cubed x 24 = 133,500,000,

The end of the Book of Daniel tells us 1,335 days is blessed.

I also say, that the ministry period from the baptism of Jesus (on his 31st birthday) by John the Baptist to day one of the Church on Pentecost Sunday is 1,335 days (3.767 lunar years)

So there seems to be a nice relationship of time which suggests 'holiness'.
JDM

PS
The Baptism of reveals the Saros Cycle

"The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros Cycle, a period of approximately 6,585.3 days (18 years 11 days 8 hours). It was known to the Chaldeans as a period when lunar eclipses seem to repeat themselves, but the cycle is applicable to solar eclipses as well." NASA

This is how I contrive a Saros Cycle out of the ages of Jesus and John the Baptist on the day of the Baptism of Jesus.

Jesus 31 years old and multiplied by 365.2422 days and divided by a lunar year of 354.3670531 days x 12 lunar months and multiplied by John at 31.5 years x 365.2422 days and divided by a lunar year of 354.3670531 days x 12 lunar months and /100,000 = 1.493791438 and squared 4 times x 0.75 x 100 and /7 = 6,585.71110 days = 18 years 11 days 8.43 hours, the Saros Cycle.

And confirmation for this is that 223 syndoical lunar months: 6,585.32107 days
= 18 years 11 days
 
JDM said:
OK, this is what my arithmetic indicates.

"John the Baptist who was six months older than Jesus reacted to his Lord when he was still in the womb."

God told Moses to follow lunar time and not Sun time.
The festival (synodical) lunar month is 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes 02.8 seconds.
Assuming the six months are lunar (and why not?) then six months = 177.1835 days and cubed x 24 = 133,500,000,

The end of the Book of Daniel tells us 1,335 days is blessed.

I also say, that the ministry period from the baptism of Jesus (on his 31st birthday) by John the Baptist to day one of the Church on Pentecost Sunday is 1,335 days (3.767 lunar years)

So there seems to be a nice relationship of time which suggests 'holiness'.
JDM

PS
The Baptism of reveals the Saros Cycle

"The periodicity and recurrence of eclipses is governed by the Saros Cycle, a period of approximately 6,585.3 days (18 years 11 days 8 hours). It was known to the Chaldeans as a period when lunar eclipses seem to repeat themselves, but the cycle is applicable to solar eclipses as well." NASA

This is how I contrive a Saros Cycle out of the ages of Jesus and John the Baptist on the day of the Baptism of Jesus.

Jesus 31 years old and multiplied by 365.2422 days and divided by a lunar year of 354.3670531 days x 12 lunar months and multiplied by John at 31.5 years x 365.2422 days and divided by a lunar year of 354.3670531 days x 12 lunar months and /100,000 = 1.493791438 and squared 4 times x 0.75 x 100 and /7 = 6,585.71110 days = 18 years 11 days 8.43 hours, the Saros Cycle.

And confirmation for this is that 223 syndoical lunar months: 6,585.32107 days
= 18 years 11 days
Click to expand...
As with everything else you have posted, you have given no justification for your arithmetic. Until you can do so, you have proven nothing and your math is arbitrary and therefore meaningless.
 
JDM said:
When does the soul enter in?

The average egg lives for up to 24 hours after release. It needs to be fertilised within this time by a sperm for a baby to be conceived. If the egg meets up with a healthy sperm on its way to the uterus, the process of creating a new life begins. If not, the egg ends its journey at the uterus and disintegrates.

So are we to believe that at conception, when a minuscule sperm and egg unite, a minuscule soul suddenly joins them so enters in?

I suggest emphatically that the soul does not enter in at conception.

God knew that millions and millions of abortions would happen in the last centuries, and so God would have allowed for this horrible human act by planning a more appropriate time for the soul to enter in.

And what happens to the aborted soul is I suppose unanswerable.

I suggest at about 18 weeks (126 days), when the fetus has taken on human form, the soul, along with the spirit, enters in.:shame
Click to expand...
There was a mistake. Your mother scheduled an abortion at your 125th day. I expect you to report in ...
 
God knew that millions and millions of abortions would happen in the last centuries, and so God would have allowed for this horrible human act by planning a more appropriate time for the soul to enter in.

And what happens to the aborted soul is I suppose unanswerable.
Click to expand...

God also knew that billions and billions of living babies would die during childbirth, or soon afterwards of disease, of malnutrition, of parents killing them....

Death is the consequence of the Fall...all death, even abortion.

As for what happens to the aborted soul, I would imagine that it faces the same fate as millions of babies who died during or soon after childbirth...an eternity with the Lord.

However, it seems as what you are really concerned about is biblical numerology....I wonder, have you ever heard of Harold Camping?
 
@JDM

It's obvious that you are very interested in mathematics and, how numerical equations reveal the "truth".

Jesus said that His burden is not heavy but, that His "yoke is light". Jesus also said that He is the "truth".
Jesus said the Holy Spirit is our guide.

There is no amount of arithmetic you or I could ever do to reveal truths that have been hidden, because the truth of Christ is apparent. Not only that, God does not ask us to work out equations but, to have faith in His Son.

God is the ultimate mathematician. I trust His "arithmetic".
 
Psalm 139 speaks to the delegate nature of the life within a mother's womb and God's intimacy with it. I guess I understand the non-believer's approach toward conception, but I don't know why this would be questioned by a believer. At that moment of conception, 23x2 chromosomes (not an exact duplicate of mother & father, but a life all it's own) join and a new life begins.

This is God's chosen way of bringing forth life of those He Makes in His Image, and I see no way of saying this is NOT when the soul is miraculously created as well. If we believe in God's design to spring forth life, I believe it's imperative that we embrace this significance of this moment. Christians shouldn't be in the business of removing the miracle of the Creation of a new life by giving way to the forces that that oppose it.
 
Mike said:
Psalm 139 speaks to the delegate nature of the life within a mother's womb and God's intimacy with it. I guess I understand the non-believer's approach toward conception, but I don't know why this would be questioned by a believer. At that moment of conception, 23x2 chromosomes (not an exact duplicate of mother & father, but a life all it's own) join and a new life begins.

This is God's chosen way of bringing forth life of those He Makes in His Image, and I see no way of saying this is NOT when the soul is miraculously created as well. If we believe in God's design to spring forth life, I believe it's imperative that we embrace this significance of this moment. Christians shouldn't be in the business of removing the miracle of the Creation of a new life by giving way to the forces that that oppose it.
Click to expand...
Worth repeating.
 
Thanks

"However, it seems as what you are really concerned about is biblical numerology....I wonder, have you ever heard of Harold Camping?"
And my answer is no I have not.

I must be doing something wrong in my presentation because posters get so annoyed with my kind of offerings!

Season's Greetings
John
 
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