Bible Study Adams Fall

[for_his_glory]

Genesis Chapter 2-3

Let's start with Genesis 2 about the creation of Adam first before God created Eve from the rib bone of Adam. Note the commandment of God, being the first one, given to Adam in Genesis 2:16-17. God's command was that Adam was not to eat from the tree of good and evil. When God told Adam he would surely die if he ate from that tree, God did not mean Adam would physically die that day, but would lose that Spiritual fellowship he had with God.

Now let's go to vs. 23 this is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Woman is from the Old English word for wife. The "wo" in the word woman is a prefix meaning "out of" as Eve was created out of the rib of Adam as they were both equal to each other. Bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh. A man is to cleave, stay close, to his wife. So we see by that verse Adam and Eve were one, because she was taken out of Adam as again, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh.

Interesting in vs.25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. They were not ashamed as they had no knowledge about what it was to be naked.

Now simply we read in Genesis 3 about the fall of Adam and Eve allowing themselves to believe the lie of the serpent (Satan). Why did Adam and Eve fail in being disobedient to God's first commandment made to man, Genesis 2:16-17, because there eyes were now opened to the good and the evil and they both chose to disobey God and fell to the evil lust of the eye taking that which God told both of them not to partake of. They both tried to hide from the voice of God in the garden, but God knew where they were and what they had done.

Even though they lost the privilege of staying in the garden, Genesis 3:22-24, and now all things of that good paradise would now be a curse to them, but God forgave them making coats of skin before He drove them out, which would be the first blood sacrifice for sin, as the second Adam, Christ Jesus, was made the last blood sacrifice for our sin in all who will believe in His name.

Now the nature to sin has been passed down through every generation that all will know the difference between good and evil as they make their own freewill choices and the tree of life will be found in the New Jerusalem, Rev 22, as the tree of life there is for the healing of all nations (people).

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Thanks for writing this for_his_glory. You got me thinking about something. (Nice to know the old grey matter still turns on once in a while.)

"Genesis 2:16-17. God's command was that Adam was not to eat from the tree of good and evil. When God told Adam he would surely die if he ate from that tree, God did not mean Adam would physically die that day, but would lose that Spiritual fellowship he had with God." Quote from for_his_glory
Plus:
"Interesting in vs.25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. They were not ashamed as they had no knowledge about what it was to be naked." Quote from for_his_glory

Adam and Eve were naked and not ashamed, They had no knowledge of what being naked meant
They also had no idea what it meant to die.
There was no death in the garden prior to sin.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
I hit the button before I was done. ( I'm ba-ak)
I want to continue my thought.

Can they Adam and Eve) be held accountable for the sin if they didn't understand the consequences of the sin?

We don't hold children to the same standard of the law as we do adults.
We recognize their innocence.

Adam and Eve had that same innocence.
Why weren't they forgiven for a lack of understanding?
Doesn't the penalty seem cruel and harsh for a lack of understanding?

What's up with that?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings for_his_glory,

When God told Adam he would surely die if he ate from that tree, God did not mean Adam would physically die that day, but would lose that Spiritual fellowship he had with God.

I agree with much of what you say, but I believe that God was speaking about literal death, as depicted in the sentence upon Adam:
Genesis 3:17–19 (KJV): 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Romans 5:12 (KJV): Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 6:19–23 (KJV): 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So what do we do with the verse that you mentioned:
Genesis 2:16–17 (KJV): 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
I have only two tentative suggestions.
1. The phrase "in the day" is not speaking of the exact "day", but it is a general term to indicate the process, the result of their sin. If you do that, the result will be that you will die, without specifying the actual date. More like a sentence of death, not an immediate execution.
2. Evidently "surely die" is in the Hebrew "dying you shall die", and possibly this is speaking of the start of the dying process that will ultimately end in death.

In both of the above Adam and Eve became mortal, in the sense that they were now subject to death. They were excluded from the Garden so that they would not be able to grasp at the Tree of Life and as a result live forever.
Genesis 3:22–24 (KJV): 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[for_his_glory]

Greetings for_his_glory,

I agree with much of what you say, but I believe that God was speaking about literal death, as depicted in the sentence upon Adam:
Genesis 3:17–19 (KJV): 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Romans 5:12 (KJV): Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 6:19–23 (KJV): 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So what do we do with the verse that you mentioned:
Genesis 2:16–17 (KJV): 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
I have only two tentative suggestions.
1. The phrase "in the day" is not speaking of the exact "day", but it is a general term to indicate the process, the result of their sin. If you do that, the result will be that you will die, without specifying the actual date. More like a sentence of death, not an immediate execution.
2. Evidently "surely die" is in the Hebrew "dying you shall die", and possibly this is speaking of the start of the dying process that will ultimately end in death.

In both of the above Adam and Eve became mortal, in the sense that they were now subject to death. They were excluded from the Garden so that they would not be able to grasp at the Tree of Life and as a result live forever.
Genesis 3:22–24 (KJV): 22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Kind regards
Trevor

We actually can see it as literal and Spiritual death.

It's not so clear that Adam and Eve were, or were not to live for all eternity as when we read Genesis 2:16-17; 3:1-5 it seems like if they would not have eaten from the tree of good and evil then they might have lived forever, especially without sin, but we do see that they Spiritually died that day they ate of the tree because they sinned against God's command.

Now, when you go down to Genesis 3:22-24 God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: If they would have eaten from the tree of life, after eating from the tree of good and evil, that could have meant they would have lived in sin for all eternity.

I believe at that point when God cast them out of the Garden of Eden that it was apparent that the mortal would not live forever and that they also died Spiritually the day they disobeyed God's command to not eat of the tree of good and evil. From what might (emphasis on might) have been God's original plan that man should live forever we see after the fall mans life span before the flood in Noah's day drops to an average of 911 years. After the flood the average life span was 120 years and now narrows down to an avereage of around 70 to 90 years. If one takes a scentific approach in the molecular we see how the body grows old and breaks down in time.

The only problem I would have in believing man was to live forever is that this world could not hold the trillions and trillions, even beyond that numbering, of people that have ever been born.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why weren't they forgiven for a lack of understanding?

God gave Adam a command not to eat from the tree of good and evil, but Satan working through the serpent who enticed Eve first and then Adam they fell to the temptation as in the lust of the eye seeing the fruit looked good to eat disobeying God's command.

God did forgive them making the first blood sacrifice of clothing as He covered their nakedness with coats of animal skin, but they also paid the consequences for their sin being cast out of the Garden of Eden as we read all of this in Genesis 3.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again for_his_glory,

We actually can see it as literal and Spiritual death.

How do you define Spiritual death? Do we die a Spiritual death every time we sin? If someone dies a Spiritual death can they recover from this position? So what happened to Adam and Eve if they were now Spiritually dead?

It's not so clear that Adam and Eve were, or were not to live for all eternity as when we read Genesis 2:16-17; 3:1-5 it seems like if they would not have eaten from the tree of good and evil then they might have lived forever, especially without sin, but we do see that they Spiritually died that day they ate of the tree because they sinned against God's command.

My understanding is that Adam and Eve were under probation. They needed to grow spiritually and after a sufficient period of growth then they would be permitted to partake of the Tree of Life and live for ever.

Now, when you go down to Genesis 3:22-24 God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: If they would have eaten from the tree of life, after eating from the tree of good and evil, that could have meant they would have lived in sin for all eternity.

Yes, that is why the Angels cast them out of the Garden. This clearly proves that the concept of immortal souls is erroneous.

The only problem I would have in believing man was to live forever is that this world could not hold the trillions and trillions, even beyond that numbering, of people that have ever been born.

God's purpose was and is to fill the earth with His glory:
Numbers 14:21 (KJV): But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.
As a result of their sin, Eve and her women descendants were to have more children to replace those that died or were killed.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[for_his_glory]

Greetings again for_his_glory,

How do you define Spiritual death? Do we die a Spiritual death every time we sin? If someone dies a Spiritual death can they recover from this position? So what happened to Adam and Eve if they were now Spiritually dead?

My understanding is that Adam and Eve were under probation. They needed to grow spiritually and after a sufficient period of growth then they would be permitted to partake of the Tree of Life and live for ever.

Yes, that is why the Angels cast them out of the Garden. This clearly proves that the concept of immortal souls is erroneous.

God's purpose was and is to fill the earth with His glory:
Numbers 14:21 (KJV): But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.
As a result of their sin, Eve and her women descendants were to have more children to replace those that died or were killed.

Kind regards
Trevor

Spiritual death is separation from God when one falls away from God as they walk in disobedience. But, can be overcome through the atonement of Christ by obedience to the Gospel. Such in the case of Adam and Eve who were disobedient, but yet shameful as God clothed their sin with the blood sacrifice of covering them.

The tree of life is wisdom, fruit of the righteous, hope, a wholesome tongue, overcomer, healing, entrance to the gates of the New Jerusalem, keeps us faithful to the word of God, Proverbs 3:18; 11:30; 13:12; Revelation 2:7; 22:2, 14, 19. We can see the tree of life through Christ Jesus and our relationship with Him as we walk in obedience to God's commands.

It would be paradise here on earth if everyone would turn back to God, but as long as Satan is free to roam that will never happen.

 

[Tenchi]

Genesis Chapter 2-3

Let's start with Genesis 2 about the creation of Adam first before God created Eve from the rib bone of Adam. Note the commandment of God, being the first one, given to Adam in Genesis 2:16-17. God's command was that Adam was not to eat from the tree of good and evil. When God told Adam he would surely die if he ate from that tree, God did not mean Adam would physically die that day, but would lose that Spiritual fellowship he had with God.

Right. Sin always separates us from God, halting our fellowship with Him if we're His child, as in the story of the Prodigal Son, or keeping us from reconciliation to, and adoption by, Him as His own. Whether we're saved or not, sin produces "death" - either of relationship to God, or fellowship with Him.

Now let's go to vs. 23 this is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Woman is from the Old English word for wife. The "wo" in the word woman is a prefix meaning "out of" as Eve was created out of the rib of Adam as they were both equal to each other. Bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh. A man is to cleave, stay close, to his wife. So we see by that verse Adam and Eve were one, because she was taken out of Adam as again, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh.

Okay. But Eve wasn't Adam and Adam wasn't Eve. They had different names and different physical forms and so were not "one" in the sense that they were identical, right? Adam was, as males are typically, stronger physically than Eve, a woman, whom the Bible calls the "weaker vessel" (1 Peter 3:7). Adam preceded Eve in the order of Creation, too, and was the source from which Eve was derived. This doesn't seem to me to indicate perfect equality between them. They were distinctly different and those differences were meaningful.

Interesting in vs.25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. They were not ashamed as they had no knowledge about what it was to be naked.

Why did knowing they were naked produce shame? I don't recall the account saying this, actually. Adam and Eve hid themselves because they knew they were naked but was this because they were ashamed of their nakedness?

Now simply we read in Genesis 3 about the fall of Adam and Eve allowing themselves to believe the lie of the serpent (Satan).

Only Adam was guilty of willful, open-eyed disobedience. Eve was well and truly deceived.

1 Timothy 2:13-14
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Why did Adam and Eve fail in being disobedient to God's first commandment made to man, Genesis 2:16-17, because there eyes were now opened to the good and the evil and they both chose to disobey God and fell to the evil lust of the eye taking that which God told both of them not to partake of. They both tried to hide from the voice of God in the garden, but God knew where they were and what they had done.

You have asked why Adam and Eve were disobedient to God's command but have answered it by explaining what they did. Describing what they did, though, doesn't explain why they did it...

Imagine Dr. Watson saying to Sherlock Holmes, "Why did Mrs. Smith poison her neighbor, Mr. Snobbely?" to which Holmes replies, "Well, because she poisoned him, obviously." Would you think Holmes had answered Dr. Watson's question? Not at all.

In the same way, saying "...their eyes were now opened to the good and evil and they both chose to disobey God and fell to the lust of the eye..." describes what Adam and Eve did in the Fall in Eden but doesn't actually explain why the opening of their eyes led to falling to the lust of the eyes and disobeying God. The two of them lived in Eden, a place of unparalleled beauty and fertility, rich with everything Adam and Eve needed to live happily and contentedly, God even walking in the Garden with them in the cool of the day. Wow. Why, then, was the temptation of the Forbidden Fruit able to make them disobey God? Why was the "lust of the eye," as you put it, able to overcome the great goodness in which Adam and Eve lived in Eden? You haven't, actually said and I'm curious to know what you think the answer is.

Even though they lost the privilege of staying in the garden, Genesis 3:22-24, and now all things of that good paradise would now be a curse to them, but God forgave them making coats of skin before He drove them out, which would be the first blood sacrifice for sin, as the second Adam, Christ Jesus, was made the last blood sacrifice for our sin in all who will believe in His name.

Where does the Bible indicate that God making clothes from animal skins for Adam and Eve was "the first blood sacrifice for sin"? The account of the Fall in Genesis doesn't say this...

Now the nature to sin has been passed down through every generation

Adam and Eve sinned. From whom did they receive a "sin nature"? Might the story of the Fall teach us that it is in the nature of being human, inside or outside of Eden, to be self-serving rather than that we are so because of what Adam and Eve did? The "curse" of sin is death, separation from God, but the tendency toward sin, toward God-disobedient self-interest, was present in the first human beings, the tendency "passed down" from no one. Our sinfulness isn't, I think, the fault of Adam and Eve, then, but simply in the nature of being human.

You have stimulated my aging brain! Thanks.

 

[for_his_glory]

Right. Sin always separates us from God, halting our fellowship with Him if we're His child, as in the story of the Prodigal Son, or keeping us from reconciliation to, and adoption by, Him as His own. Whether we're saved or not, sin produces "death" - either of relationship to God, or fellowship with Him.



Okay. But Eve wasn't Adam and Adam wasn't Eve. They had different names and different physical forms and so were not "one" in the sense that they were identical, right? Adam was, as males are typically, stronger physically than Eve, a woman, whom the Bible calls the "weaker vessel" (1 Peter 3:7). Adam preceded Eve in the order of Creation, too, and was the source from which Eve was derived. This doesn't seem to me to indicate perfect equality between them. They were distinctly different and those differences were meaningful.



Why did knowing they were naked produce shame? I don't recall the account saying this, actually. Adam and Eve hid themselves because they knew they were naked but was this because they were ashamed of their nakedness?



Only Adam was guilty of willful, open-eyed disobedience. Eve was well and truly deceived.

1 Timothy 2:13-14
13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.



You have asked why Adam and Eve were disobedient to God's command but have answered it by explaining what they did. Describing what they did, though, doesn't explain why they did it...

Imagine Dr. Watson saying to Sherlock Holmes, "Why did Mrs. Smith poison her neighbor, Mr. Snobbely?" to which Holmes replies, "Well, because she poisoned him, obviously." Would you think Holmes had answered Dr. Watson's question? Not at all.

In the same way, saying "...their eyes were now opened to the good and evil and they both chose to disobey God and fell to the lust of the eye..." describes what Adam and Eve did in the Fall in Eden but doesn't actually explain why the opening of their eyes led to falling to the lust of the eyes and disobeying God. The two of them lived in Eden, a place of unparalleled beauty and fertility, rich with everything Adam and Eve needed to live happily and contentedly, God even walking in the Garden with them in the cool of the day. Wow. Why, then, was the temptation of the Forbidden Fruit able to make them disobey God? Why was the "lust of the eye," as you put it, able to overcome the great goodness in which Adam and Eve lived in Eden? You haven't, actually said and I'm curious to know what you think the answer is.



Where does the Bible indicate that God making clothes from animal skins for Adam and Eve was "the first blood sacrifice for sin"? The account of the Fall in Genesis doesn't say this...



Adam and Eve sinned. From whom did they receive a "sin nature"? Might the story of the Fall teach us that it is in the nature of being human, inside or outside of Eden, to be self-serving rather than that we are so because of what Adam and Eve did? The "curse" of sin is death, separation from God, but the tendency toward sin, toward God-disobedient self-interest, was present in the first human beings, the tendency "passed down" from no one. Our sinfulness isn't, I think, the fault of Adam and Eve, then, but simply in the nature of being human.

You have stimulated my aging brain! Thanks.

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Scripture says they are one flesh, but yet each physical body is different between a man and a woman, but Spiritually created they are as one in the eyes of God

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

I can only assume they were ashamed as learning they were naked only after their eyes were opened to good and evil they sewed together fig leaf's to hide their nakedness.

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

God gave the command to Adam first, possibly before He created Eve as I am not sure, in which he should have instructed Eve to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but he fell to the temptation when Eve gave him to eat causing the both of them to sin the sin of the lust of the eye.

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

I have explained why they both ate of the fruit as they were beguiled by the serpent and fell to the temptation which was a sin of the lust of the eye as they chose to be disobedient to God's command to not eat of that tree.

It has always been by the blood of animal sacrifices beginning with the coats of skin in Genesis 3:21 as God would have sacrificed the animal and it's blood making atonement for sin as Jesus was made the last blood sacrifice to make atonement for our sins as we are covered by the blood of Jesus.

We are not born with a sin nature, but the nature to sin beginning with Satan who worked through the serpent in the Garden of Eden that seduced Eve to give to Adam the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. All sin is founded in Satan who tries to tempt us to fall.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again for_his_glory,

The tree of life is wisdom, fruit of the righteous, hope, a wholesome tongue, overcomer, healing, entrance to the gates of the New Jerusalem, keeps us faithful to the word of God, Proverbs 3:18; 11:30; 13:12; Revelation 2:7; 22:2, 14, 19. We can see the tree of life through Christ Jesus and our relationship with Him as we walk in obedience to God's commands.

I understand that the fruit of the Tree of Life will be given to those who overcome, and this will result in everlasting life at the return of Jesus:
Revelation 2:7 (KJV): He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Tenchi]

Scripture says they are one flesh, but yet each physical body is different between a man and a woman, but Spiritually created they are as one in the eyes of God

What does it mean for a husband and wife to be "spiritually one" in God's eyes?

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

This is speaking of the union of all born-again people in Christ and the leveling and homogenizing effect of this union. Christ is the uniting and equalizing constant among all those who know and love him. This isn't quite the same thing as the "one flesh" circumstance of a husband and wife, though, right?

I can only assume they were ashamed as learning they were naked only after their eyes were opened to good and evil they sewed together fig leaf's to hide their nakedness.

Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

It's not an unreasonable assumption, but their hiding being a reflection of their shame at their nakedness isn't clearly indicated in the account, or in any commentary on the event in other parts of Scripture. What the account does point out as a motive for Adam's hiding was fear, not shame. Why do you suppose the account highlights Adam's fear rather than shame?

I have explained why they both ate of the fruit as they were beguiled by the serpent and fell to the temptation which was a sin of the lust of the eye as they chose to be disobedient to God's command to not eat of that tree.

Well, again, this is answering "why?" with a what. What Adam and Eve did was allow themselves to be tempted by the serpent, choosing to disobey the explicit, direct command of their Creator. But describing this doesn't explain why they did these things. Were Adam and Eve entirely incapable of resisting the temptation of the serpent? Was it inevitable that Adam and Eve would yield to its invitation to sin? If so, how do we know this and are they then responsible for partaking of the Forbidden Fruit? If Adam and Eve could have resisted the seduction of the serpent, why didn't they? Does the account of the Fall in Genesis give any explanation as to why the serpent's temptation was so effective? Adam and Eve weren't gullible children, nor were they at all deprived of food or comfort. Just the opposite, in fact. What's more, they met with God in the Garden. Why, then, did they succumb to the serpent's temptation? It seems to me that they should have been able to dismiss the serpent's temptation with ease.

It has always been by the blood of animal sacrifices beginning with the coats of skin in Genesis 3:21 as God would have sacrificed the animal and it's blood making atonement for sin as Jesus was made the last blood sacrifice to make atonement for our sins as we are covered by the blood of Jesus.

But, again, this isn't indicated in the account at all. And nowhere else in Scripture (that I'm aware of, anyway) is it said that God clothing Adam and Eve in the skins of animals was a sacrifice for their sin. This is entirely an assumption you're making here and so you should be very careful about asserting it as hard fact.

We are not born with a sin nature, but the nature to sin beginning with Satan who worked through the serpent in the Garden of Eden that seduced Eve to give to Adam the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. All sin is founded in Satan who tries to tempt us to fall.

Well, is this what the Bible indicates? Does it locate all sin in the devil? Or is the inclination to sin inherent in human nature, like scales are to fish, or wings are to birds? See James 1:14-16 and Romans 8:5-8. It seems to me that the devil simply provokes what is already present in human beings.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
I want to compliment you all for the civility being shown. Topics like this can break down into very mean spirited, verbal flame wars. You all are treating each other with respect. (The nerve of you all! Just kidding, Please continue treating each other with kindness and dignity.) OK, I will get off the soap box now.

"Why did knowing they were naked produce shame? I don't recall the account saying this, actually. Adam and Eve hid themselves because they knew they were naked but was this because they were ashamed of their nakedness?" Quote from Tenchi

Genesis 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Moses adds this at the end of chapter two. Moses talks about man and woman becoming one flesh. He writes verse 25 specifically to say Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed.

Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Adam and Eve were no longer innocent, and no longer ignorant. The very first reaction to sin entering their beings was self awareness of their nakedness.They knew, and felt compelled to cover themselves. Now you are right Tenchi. The verse does not specifically say they were ashamed. But their actions do. What emotion would compel Adam and Eve to cover
themselves? The verse says they used fig leaves. So they were not doing it for warmth. They were embarrassed and ashamed by their nakedness.
What emotion would you use to describe why they felt the need to cover themselves?

Scripture says they are one flesh, but yet each physical body is different between a man and a woman, but Spiritually created they are as one in the eyes of God" Quote for_his_glory

My understanding is that they were one flesh because Eve was created by God used one of Adam's ribs. Eve was literally bone of Adam. Adam declares her to be of his flesh as well.

Would you please explain how Adam and Eve are spiritually one.

 

[GodsGrace]

Greetings again for_his_glory,

How do you define Spiritual death? Do we die a Spiritual death every time we sin? If someone dies a Spiritual death can they recover from this position? So what happened to Adam and Eve if they were now Spiritually dead?

Adam and Eve became separated from God.
Before they walked in the cool of the Garden with Him.
Now they were estranged.

Being spiritually dead means we don't have a proper relationship with God.
He is far from us and we don't "walk" with Him.

Adam and Eve were no longer friendly with God.
But they still considered Him because Eve told Adam that with God's help, they received a son.

If we seek God, He also will remain with us.
The relationship was changed, but not severed completely.
Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

My understanding is that Adam and Eve were under probation. They needed to grow spiritually and after a sufficient period of growth then they would be permitted to partake of the Tree of Life and live for ever.

I don't really see this nor have I ever heard of this.
What scripture do you base it on?

It's accepted theology that Adam and Eve were meant to live forever from the start.
God breathed life into Adam/them. THEY separated from God, not He from them.
The Preternatural gifts were:
Absence of the sin nature
Infused Knowledge
Immortality

They lost all these gifts when they sinned against God.

Yes, that is why the Angels cast them out of the Garden. This clearly proves that the concept of immortal souls is erroneous.

Why would that be?
They became separated SPIRITUALLY.
Their BODY died.
Where does it state that their SOUL died?

God's purpose was and is to fill the earth with His glory:
Numbers 14:21 (KJV): But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.
As a result of their sin, Eve and her women descendants were to have more children to replace those that died or were killed.

Kind regards
Trevor

Interesting idea re replacing died persons.
I'm not sure that's scriptural.
Never heard of this.

I believe they were to have children anyway....
but without pain.
Genesis 3:16
16Then he said to the woman
“I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy,
and in pain you will give birth.

 

[Tenchi]

Adam and Eve were no longer innocent, and no longer ignorant. The very first reaction to sin entering their beings was self awareness of their nakedness.They knew, and felt compelled to cover themselves. Now you are right Tenchi. The verse does not specifically say they were ashamed. But their actions do. What emotion would compel Adam and Eve to cover
themselves? The verse says they used fig leaves. So they were not doing it for warmth. They were embarrassed and ashamed by their nakedness.
What emotion would you use to describe why they felt the need to cover themselves?

As I already pointed out to for_his_glory, the Genesis account of the Fall says that it was fear that provoked Adam and Eve's covering and hiding. The account says nothing about their being ashamed. They may well have been, but this isn't stated in the account, nor established in another place in Scripture (that I can think of, anyway). So, it seems to me that stating they were ashamed ought to be done in a very...modest, qualified way rather than by flat, bold assertion.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
Somehow I did it again. Let me finish my thoughts.
My last question was Would you please explain how Adam and Eve are spiritually created as one?
Are you saying Adam and Eve had one spirit?
That's the first time I ever heard that.

"But, again, this isn't indicated in the account at all. And nowhere else in Scripture (that I'm aware of, anyway) is it said that God clothing Adam and Eve in the skins of animals was a sacrifice for their sin. This is entirely an assumption you're making here and so you should be very careful about asserting it as hard fact." Quote from Tenchi

Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

I see your point Tenchi. People presume said sacrifice because The Lord made coats of skins. What did He do with the flesh of hose animals? He could have just left them for the scavenger animals. I guess it doesn't matter.

"The phrase "in the day" is not speaking of the exact "day", but it is a general term to indicate the process, the result of their sin. If you do that, the result will be that you will die, without specifying the actual date. More like a sentence of death, not an immediate" Quote from TrelvorL

Adam and Eve died a spiritual death immediately upon their sin. They hid in the garden. They were aware of their sin. Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Wondering,

I don't really see this nor have I ever heard of this. What scripture do you base it on?
It's accepted theology that Adam and Eve were meant to live forever from the start.
God breathed life into Adam/them.

The fact that they were under the Law concerning the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil indicates that they were under trial. The fact that the Tree of Life was also in the Garden, and by eating of this Tree would grant eternal life, then it is evidenct that they had not already partaken of that fruit.

God breathed life into Adam/them.

Yes, like a baby takes it's first breath.

Why would that be? They became separated SPIRITUALLY. Their BODY died.
Where does it state that their SOUL died?

Their bodies died 900 years later. Your definition of their soul is different to the definition in the following:
Genesis 2:7 (KJV): And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
The word "soul" here is the same word translated "creature" in the following:
Genesis 1:24 (KJV): And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

The sentence on Adam was that HE was to return to the dust, and this occurred 900 later.
Genesis 3:17–19 (KJV): 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
It does not say that dust is his body and that his body would return to the dust, and that the real Adam, his supposed immortal soul would go to heaven or hell at death. Immortal soul theory is based upon Greek Philosophy and Platoism, and these false doctrines were adopted by the corrupt Church in the early Centuries after Christ and the Apostles.

Interesting idea re replacing died persons. I'm not sure that's scriptural. Never heard of this.
I believe they were to have children anyway.... but without pain.
Genesis 3:16 Then he said to the woman “I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth.

I am not sure what Bible version that you are using, but I read the following:
Genesis 3:16 (KJV): Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[for_his_glory]

Greetings again for_his_glory,

I understand that the fruit of the Tree of Life will be given to those who overcome, and this will result in everlasting life at the return of Jesus:
Revelation 2:7 (KJV): He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Kind regards
Trevor

Yes, Those who are Christ own at His coming will He give to eat of the tree of life that will be in the midst of the New Jerusalem. Like John 3:16 says that whosoever believes and we are that whosoever that not only believes, but that our faith is our trust in Christ and to have eternal life with Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

As I already pointed out to for_his_glory, the Genesis account of the Fall says that it was fear that provoked Adam and Eve's covering and hiding. The account says nothing about their being ashamed. They may well have been, but this isn't stated in the account, nor established in another place in Scripture (that I can think of, anyway). So, it seems to me that stating they were ashamed ought to be done in a very...modest, qualified way rather than by flat, bold assertion.

We have to remember that most try to cover their shame and this is exactly what Adam and Eve did by sewing themselves fig leaves to cover their nakedness.

 

[for_his_glory]

My last question was Would you please explain how Adam and Eve are spiritually created as one?
Are you saying Adam and Eve had one spirit?
That's the first time I ever heard that.

We all have that one spirit which is the breath God breathed in us that makes us a living soul as we are all made in His image. We have that same spirit, but it doesn't mean that everyone is God's own as many are Spiritually separated from God and never will return back to Him.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.