Addiction is a disease

[Gary]

From one addict, it ain't no disease. I was addicted to Booze, to Drugs, to Sex and an assortment of other things. And until I was ready to correct the issues, there was no cure. I knew a couple that went through a two year program where they had no choice but to be clean. As soon as they graduated they rented a house across the street and before they paid the second months rent, they were at my Home getting smacked.

Programs work for about eigthy to eighty-five percent of the people that want to be clean and are fed up with themselves. From 1966 until late 1989, I did not want to be clean but the very moment I wanted to be clean and I called on God, I was and I am clean of all of it. People on the outside postulate much foolishness.

This is absolutely true. In order for rehabilitation to work, the individual needs the desire to stop what they're doing. If that desire is not there, the treatment is useless.
.

 

[jeff77]

From my personal experience I came to the conclusion that addiction is not a disease. I was a drug/alcohol abuser for 17 years before I quit and have been sober for almost 3 years. I pretty much thought it was a disease from the beginning because of all the re-habs, doctors and AA/NA taught that it was. When I think back at all the times I tried to get sober, the max clean/sober time I got was about 6-8 months. I was a Christian before I started using and for the many attempts at getting sober I made a decent effort to put God 1st in my life, but ended up failing. When I finally did get sober the last time I gave up on the AA/NA meetings and counselors. I really made a big effort to get right with God and at about 8 months in I noticed that the cravings/desire were not as strong as they once were. After a little over a year I had no desire to use at all. It was such a strange feeling, I thought that maybe the Lord had healed my disease.

After being sober for about 1.5 years I decided to study and look into the disease model of addiction and compare it to my experience. That is when I came to the conclusion that addiction is not a disease. Basically I believe that I made drugs my god. Instead of turning to Jesus when problems came my way, I did drugs and over time I learned to depend on them. I certainly believe that drugs have a physical effect on the brain, but it is a learned behavior. There is research that shows that the changes in the neuroplasticity of the brain are similar to the way the brain changes when we learn a behavior. I believe that by staying sober and putting God number 1 in your life you can "un-learn" the addictive behavior.

To me the best thing about addiction not being a disease is that it is not something that people will have to deal with the rest of their lives (once an addict always an addict). BTW...I definitely respect the other sides opinion on this matter, I think they have the best intentions. I am just one person and that is what I have experienced.

 

[Kathi]

And lots and lots of prayer for God to give you the strength to overcome the addiction

 

[stovebolts]

No one who thinks about this carefully can call the "the basic need to feel love and joy" an addiction. God has place that hunger in every human heart. So the solution for this type of need would be for Christians to provide the love and care to addicts so that they do not turn to destructive addictions. Eventually this should lead them to Christ.

Yet at its core, this is the issue. Please read what I wrote about endorphins...

We have a prescription drug epidemic in our country that is killing more people each day than all illegal drugs and alcohol related deaths. Guess what? They are opioids. Legal heroin.

Sad thing about it? There isn't available resources to help them. I personally know a guy who took his kid to Ohio to find a rehab center with an open bed. I could tell many stories.

I'm not hiding my agenda. Its a disease like mental illness. One people accept the science, it will cause healthcare to cover it.

The war on drugs isn't working

 

[stovebolts]

From my personal experience I came to the conclusion that addiction is not a disease. I was a drug/alcohol abuser for 17 years before I quit and have been sober for almost 3 years. I pretty much thought it was a disease from the beginning because of all the re-habs, doctors and AA/NA taught that it was. When I think back at all the times I tried to get sober, the max clean/sober time I got was about 6-8 months. I was a Christian before I started using and for the many attempts at getting sober I made a decent effort to put God 1st in my life, but ended up failing. When I finally did get sober the last time I gave up on the AA/NA meetings and counselors. I really made a big effort to get right with God and at about 8 months in I noticed that the cravings/desire were not as strong as they once were. After a little over a year I had no desire to use at all. It was such a strange feeling, I thought that maybe the Lord had healed my disease.

After being sober for about 1.5 years I decided to study and look into the disease model of addiction and compare it to my experience. That is when I came to the conclusion that addiction is not a disease. Basically I believe that I made drugs my god. Instead of turning to Jesus when problems came my way, I did drugs and over time I learned to depend on them. I certainly believe that drugs have a physical effect on the brain, but it is a learned behavior. There is research that shows that the changes in the neuroplasticity of the brain are similar to the way the brain changes when we learn a behavior. I believe that by staying sober and putting God number 1 in your life you can "un-learn" the addictive behavior.

To me the best thing about addiction not being a disease is that it is not something that people will have to deal with the rest of their lives (once an addict always an addict). BTW...I definitely respect the other sides opinion on this matter, I think they have the best intentions. I am just one person and that is what I have experienced.

But there are those that will struggle the rest of their lives and a simple MRI confirms it.
You were never an addict. A heavy abuser who saw brain damage, but not enough that it couldn't rewire. The addicts mind isn't like your mind.

Or.... You just haven't relapsed yet. Mark my words, if you were an addict, watch out. Its quiet right now, but don't get cocky because you don't want to be tested.

 

[stovebolts]

From one addict, it ain't no disease. I was addicted to Booze, to Drugs, to Sex and an assortment of other things. And until I was ready to correct the issues, there was no cure. I knew a couple that went through a two year program where they had no choice but to be clean. As soon as they graduated they rented a house across the street and before they paid the second months rent, they were at my Home getting smacked.

Programs work for about eigthy to eighty-five percent of the people that want to be clean and are fed up with themselves. From 1966 until late 1989, I did not want to be clean but the very moment I wanted to be clean and I called on God, I was and I am clean of all of it. People on the outside postulate much foolishness.

First,
Why did you self medicate all them years? What was your childhood like? Did you experience any trauma in the military?

What caused you to hit rock bottom? Who made that much of a difference in your life it prompted you to change?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Yet at its core, this is the issue. Please read what I wrote about endorphins...

We have a prescription drug epidemic in our country that is killing more people each day than all illegal drugs and alcohol related deaths. Guess what? They are opioids. Legal heroin.

This is true. I know some people who have this problem.

 

[stovebolts]

This is true. I know some people who have this problem.

Its a big enough problem, everyone knows somebody, weather you know it or not.

Addiction is like cancer. You don't know somebody has cancer when they are in stage 1. But you sure know who's in stage 4.

Edit. Ever wonder why opiods which simulate love is the biggest problem? Daycare.... Both parents working.... See it?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Yes, addiction isn't just drugs. It's a state of mind in connection with the state of the body. The difference between addiction and passion, is that you will continue with a behavior at the cost of something else. Passion on the other hand helps all the way around.
Example: Nothing wrong with sex and it's natural to have a passion for sex. Let's just admit it, sex is great. But a sex addict will ruin everything around him for sex. His marriage, finances, morals and values all crumble to his behavior. That's addiction.

Yeah, just I guess part of me thinks that others would think it's silly to say "hey, I was addicted to this thing seen as completely and totally harmless by pretty much everybody and it made me want to kill myself".
But come to think of it, I've heard stories of people being addicted to video games, to the point that they lost their job and families over it. That's not much different than what I was obsessed with.

 

[jeff77]

But there are those that will struggle the rest of their lives and a simple MRI confirms it.
You were never an addict. A heavy abuser who saw brain damage, but not enough that it couldn't rewire. The addicts mind isn't like your mind.

Or.... You just haven't relapsed yet. Mark my words, if you were an addict, watch out. Its quiet right now, but don't get cocky because you don't want to be tested.

StoveBolts,

I was an addict. I'm not sure what you mean in particular about the brain re-wiring? I am aware to not get overconfident because I could go down that path again, but it would be by my own choice, just like it was the first time.

This a great discussion StovBolts, but I am on my phone and will have to wait till later. Blessings& happy new year

 

[poetofparables]

Jesus is the cure for everything end of sentence... Just as He used 'spit made mud' on the blind mans eyes He used Chemo for me...

Thats a interesting comparison you make there, a statement that shows god using the same natural method we use for healing someone. But reba, if god can also use supernatural methods like raising the dead or feeding 5000 people with a bucket of kfc (No pun intended) then why dont christians make the same statements of that supernatural nature as often as they make for the natural ones.

 

[reba]

Lost me Poet ... rephrase?

 

[poetofparables]

From one addict, it ain't no disease. I was addicted to Booze, to Drugs, to Sex and an assortment of other things. And until I was ready to correct the issues, there was no cure. I knew a couple that went through a two year program where they had no choice but to be clean. As soon as they graduated they rented a house across the street and before they paid the second months rent, they were at my Home getting smacked.

Programs work for about eigthy to eighty-five percent of the people that want to be clean and are fed up with themselves. From 1966 until late 1989, I did not want to be clean but the very moment I wanted to be clean and I called on God, I was and I am clean of all of it. People on the outside postulate much foolishness.

I agree, its not a disease. I say that for now, but if it is ever proven to be one, ill adjust my view.

 

[poetofparables]

Lost me Poet ... rephrase?

Ok,

Christians make claims that our ability to heal someone naturally (By progressive science) as absolute proof of the power of god. Then I rebuttled that by saying " why dont christians make as many claims to the opposite, if in fact god does heal people supernaturally" (Without progressive science)

 

[evenifigoalone]

Ok,

Christians make claims that our ability to heal someone naturally (By progressive science) as absolute proof of the power of god. Then I rebuttled that by saying " why dont christians make as many claims to the opposite, if in fact god does heal people supernaturally" (Without progressive science)

You do hear stories of people with addictions and other things saying that they were cured instantly by praying or believing in God. Seems that God doesn't work that way in the vast majority of the time. Perhaps it's for our learning, not just the hurt and broken and addicted, but the body of believers as well, learning how to show compassion and love and some form of understanding and to love others the way Christ loved them.
It's a subject that, discussed at length, could probably have it's very own thread. Pretty tough subject, not at all easily answered.

 

[poetofparables]

You do hear stories of people with addictions and other things saying that they were cured instantly by praying or believing in God. Seems that God doesn't work that way in the vast majority of the time. Perhaps it's for our learning, not just the hurt and broken and addicted, but the body of believers as well, learning how to show compassion and love and some form of understanding and to love others the way Christ loved them.
It's a subject that, discussed at length, could probably have it's very own thread. Pretty tough subject, not at all easily answered.

What bothers me about the "Claiming natural methods as Gods divine intervention" Is when you exanine that statement unbiasedly, your basically B.Y.O.G (Bring your own God)

 

[reba]

Ok,

Christians make claims that our ability to heal someone naturally (By progressive science) as absolute proof of the power of god. Then I rebuttled that by saying " why dont christians make as many claims to the opposite, if in fact god does heal people supernaturally" (Without progressive science)

Yes He does also heal supernaturally ...

 

[evenifigoalone]

What bothers me about the "Claiming natural methods as Gods divine intervention" Is when you exanine that statement unbiasedly, your basically B.Y.O.G (Bring your own God)

I'd agree that it wouldn't be reliable to cite this as proof of God's existence, nor would I label it divine intervention. That said, and I don't want to pull the thread off topic because this has the potential to lead to a very lengthy discussion, Christians believe it right to thank God for it anyway because we believe it's by His grace that things work out the way they do.

 

[poetofparables]

I'd agree that it wouldn't be reliable to cite this as proof of God's existence, nor would I label it divine intervention. That said, and I don't want to pull the thread off topic because this has the potential to lead to a very lengthy discussion, Christians believe it right to thank God for it anyway because we believe it's by His grace that things work out the way they do.

I understand, and I wont derail the thread any further.

 

[Malachi]

What bothers me about the "Claiming natural methods as Gods divine intervention" Is when you exanine that statement unbiasedly, your basically B.Y.O.G (Bringing your own God)

Poet,
There are no simple answers to establish a clear connection between Divine healing and the use of natural remedies. Perhaps this will help:
1. Sickness, disease and death are a result of sin.
2. God has used signs, wonders, and miracles of healing from time to time, particulary when Christ and His apostles were on earth. The primary reason was to authenticate who Christ was and that the Gospel and the apostles were from God.
3. Towards the end of this period "the prayer of faith" was the method to obtain Divine healing (James 5:13-18). It is still in effect.
4. God has placed healing properties within numerous plants, and many have been discovered and used very effectively. But the ultimate Healer is God Himself, who has power over life and death. So God is not against the use of medication.
5. Manufactured pharmaceuticals are generally synthetic and have serious side effects. The profit motive dominates. These are the first resort for doctors and the last resort for patients.
6. God does not necessarily answer every prayer for healing today. In contrast, when Christ was on earth, anyone and everyone who came to Him for healing was healed. How do we explain this? It is one of God's mysteries.
7. God's ultimate goal is to "heal" every human being from "sin", and all its deleterious effects (sickness, pain and death). That is only in and through Christ.
8. There will come a day when every Christian will be absolutely perfect (body, soul and spirit) as well as glorious (emanating light). That condition will be for eternity, and will bring eternal glory and praise to God.