again and again i hear this

[reba]

I never confuse anyone just ask Mike

 

[Nathan]

And all my life i have been taught Jesus is the Victor ..

He is! It's just sad so many get convinced He's not.

 

[reba]

He is the builder I trust He knows what He is doing.

 

[Nathan]

He is the builder I trust He knows what He is doing.

I used to work in construction. I've done everything from foundation to roof. It's really nice when you have a set of plans to build from rather than going at it blind. In fact, I'd say it's next to impossible to work on something unless building plans of some sort are available. I'm glad He gives us the plans.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are not as alone as you might think/wish you were Jethro Bodine

I didn't catch this 'till now...wish?

When we set ourselves up as 'leaders' of the truth on an open forum like this we are being no better than those who do such in organized religions.

I remember a pastor once exclaim that if no one follows him he cannot be a shepherd like he was called to be. I always thought if he was a shepherd like he should be then people would follow him.

No, it's not about that. With the exception of a couple of ordained people in this forum we're not here to be shepherds.

What I'm talking about is learning from each other through open discussion and fellowship--you know, the Biblical way that Paul talks about about which no church does in it's Sunday morning service. I've learned and remembered more that way than from any one leader or figurehead in the church, with the exception of a few. But what happens where it is attempted (like in this forum) someone decides they aren't going to be teachable and open and they get abusive and condescending and even try to suppress what you're saying. They'll start playing the 'who appointed you', and the 'you think you're better/holier than us', and 'you're judging' cards (good grief, give me break is all I can say).

The hard truth is that's just how it's going to be. We're always going to have those kind. To dream that it can be different is just that.....a dream. 'Taint gonna happen in this life. Of course, me being holier than the rest of you <ahem> I had the privilege of being in a church that came real close, and it had been my hope to get in a church like that again some day. But I did know it would have to be a new movement in the church. Well, it's time to be realistic.....'taint gonna happen. It can't happen, because we're all at different levels of spiritual development. I see that now more than I ever have before. It will only happen in small extra-curricular Bible studies of 5 to 15 people, give or take, who are at the same basic agreement in spiritual revelation and development.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I used to work in construction. I've done everything from foundation to roof. It's really nice when you have a set of plans to build from rather than going at it blind. In fact, I'd say it's next to impossible to work on something unless building plans of some sort are available. I'm glad He gives us the plans.

What helps is if the building you're working on isn't also being built with hay and stubble. But that is exactly what God's building is also being built with in this age, but which will be burned away at the Judgment.

So until then, while some of the household of God is being built with material that can, and will endure the coming flames of Judgement other parts of it are being constructed of people that can't, and won't endure the coming flames of Judgment, and we just have to accept that it's that way, as ugly and obstructive it is to our own personal desire for it not to be that way. So for now the plans include flimsy thatched roofs and bamboo poles, all with the full knowledge of the architect and master builder, God (and Gilligan too, of course) and there's nothing we can do about it.

 

[Nathan]

I believe Bible studies are key to growth. It does help when it's approached as a study and not a teaching from one perspective.

Goes back to my thoughts that if we all tried to view others posts as non confrontational we might be able to engage studies with peace.

I might be very direct in my thoughts, and say that I really believe a certain thing, even tell others that I don't believe what they say is correct - but that does not mean I don't want to hear their thoughts and think they should quit posting.

I like to hear others thoughts even when they seem way off base. It helps me understand what is being taught out there. It also helps me to better understand how to talk to people with different beliefs. As Paul said;

1 Corinthians 9:19-23
19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.

I think divisions and disunity come from people who are afraid to think what they believe may be wrong. So we put up walls and shoot down anyone trying to climb them.

 

[Nathan]

What helps is if the building you're working on isn't also being built with hay and stubble. But that is exactly what God's building is being built with in this age, but which will be burned away at the Judgment. So until then, while some of the household of God is being built with material that can, and will endure the coming flames of Judgement other parts of it are being constructed of people that can't, and won't endure the coming flames of Judgment, and we just have to accept that it's that way, as ugly and obstructive it is to our own personal desire for it not to be that way. So for now the plans include flimsy thatched roofs and bamboo poles, all with the full knowledge of the architect and master builder, God (and Gilligan too, of course).

Personally, I have never met a builder that was not apart of the construction process. Usually, they are their ever day over seeing construction. If something isn't right, they address it real quick. If I was building walls I did not try to tell the roofers what they should do. When I built foundations I did not tell the plumbers their job. I just did the job I was hired to do and let the builder take care of the rest.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe Bible studies are key to growth. It does help when it's approached as a study and not a teaching from one perspective.

Goes back to my thoughts that if we all tried to view others posts as non confrontational we might be able to engage studies with peace.

I might be very direct in my thoughts, and say that I really believe a certain thing, even tell others that I don't believe what they say is correct - but that does not mean I don't want to hear their thoughts and think they should quit posting.

Then you'd fit in real nice with what I have wished for years and years church would be. But sadly you are in a small minority, while the stiff necked and convinced and unmovable and unteachable are in the majority.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Personally, I have never met a builder that was not apart of the construction process. Usually, they are their ever day over seeing construction. If something isn't right, they address it real quick. If I was building walls I did not try to tell the roofers what they should do. When I built foundations I did not tell the plumbers their job. I just did the job I was hired to do and let the builder take care of the rest.

And so you can see how God is different than that. He patiently watches as hay, wood and stubble get foolishly built into his building that he knows is one day going to go through the test of the flames of Judgment. We're the one's who don't understand that and we're trying to build a building that even God himself is not trying to build in this age.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...or to use another analogy...

God lets the tares grow in his field and we get our undies in a bunch because it's that way and we want to have something different but God says, 'leave them, we'll take care of it at harvest time'.

This reality is setting in real strong for me now. Time to stop hoping for a field and building of God that God himself has no intention of having in this life. The only unity we're going to have is the unity of our conscious decision to stop playing the 'so you think you're better than me', 'you're judging', and 'who appointed you' cards--IOW, the unity of peace, not doctrinal and revelatory unity. That won't happen in this age. Just enjoy what you have between you and God and leave it at that.

 

[reba]

I didn't catch this 'till now...wish?

Just covering the bases Jethro Bodine ..when we cant see eyes we cant see the hurts.

 

[Nathan]

...or to use another analogy...

God lets the tares grow in his field and we get our undies in a bunch because it's that way and we want to have something different but God says, 'leave them, we'll take care of it at harvest time'.

This reality is setting in real strong for me now. Time to stop hoping for a field and building of God that God himself has no intention of having in this life. The only unity we're going to have is the unity of our conscious decision to stop playing the 'so you think you're better than me', 'you're judging', and 'who appointed you' cards--the unity of peace, not doctrinal and revelatory unity. That won't happen in this age. Just enjoy what you have and leave it at that.

This is true. There are tares growing with the wheat. So I do see what your talking about.

In that example it does seem that the growers know the difference though. Because they asked if they should take the tares out. Jesus just said to let them grow and not worry about them. He did not seem to think they would effect the growth of the wheat?

 

[Papa Zoom]

I believe Bible studies are key to growth. It does help when it's approached as a study and not a teaching from one perspective.

Goes back to my thoughts that if we all tried to view others posts as non confrontational we might be able to engage studies with peace.

I might be very direct in my thoughts, and say that I really believe a certain thing, even tell others that I don't believe what they say is correct - but that does not mean I don't want to hear their thoughts and think they should quit posting.

I like to hear others thoughts even when they seem way off base. It helps me understand what is being taught out there. It also helps me to better understand how to talk to people with different beliefs. As Paul said;

1 Corinthians 9:19-23
19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.

I think divisions and disunity come from people who are afraid to think what they believe may be wrong. So we put up walls and shoot down anyone trying to climb them.

You have a positive way of approaching it. That is to your credit. We are all in somewhat different places. Nice that you respect that fact and can work with it from there.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus just said to let them grow and not worry about them. He did not seem to think they would effect the growth of the wheat?

Absolutely correct.
The problem being from the wheat's perspective, not God's.
To have a different perspective is to go against God himself.
Just gotta accept it and move on.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think divisions and disunity come from people who are afraid to think what they believe may be wrong. So we put up walls and shoot down anyone trying to climb them.

And that's called PRIDE.
And in no other place do I see the disunity caused by that fear of the truth as much as I do in the OSAS threads. (No, let's not start a discussion about that....but it would prove my point very quickly).

 

[Corn Pop]

This is true. There are tares growing with the wheat. So I do see what your talking about.

In that example it does seem that the growers know the difference though. Because they asked if they should take the tares out. Jesus just said to let them grow and not worry about them. He did not seem to think they would effect the growth of the wheat?

Yea well for all know my doctrines probably not perfect as i dont have full understanding, I have given up on trying to be perfect and have all knowledge. Everyone thinks there thoughts and beliefs are true doctrine. There must be at least 100 demoninations and thousands of teachings.

Paul must have struggled, you can see it in his teachings, hes all over the place, but he preached the Gospel. He says why do you listen and abide by mans rules who say do this and dont do that, then he gives his own commands saying there not from God, saying do this dont do that.

There was something Paul said i cant remember what book or verse about people teaching false doctrine and said something along the lines of it doesn't matter because Christ name is still being preached, or something like that.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There was something Paul said i cant remember what book or verse about people teaching false doctrine and said something along the lines of it doesn't matter because Christ name is still being preached, or something like that.

They were teaching Christ with wrong motives:

"17the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. 18What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice." (Philippians 1:17-18 NASB)

Apparently, their doctrine was correct, but they taught it with wrong motives.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Yea well for all know my doctrines probably not perfect as i dont have full understanding, I have given up on trying to be perfect and have all knowledge.

As long as you're open to discuss doctrine with an open heart and mind.....that's what matters. But if you come into a discussion and open right up with, "my mind is made up, so I don't discuss it", then the only thing we can do with you is endure you. You don't come across as being that to me.

He says why do you listen and abide by mans rules who say do this and dont do that, then he gives his own commands saying there not from God, saying do this dont do that.

You're referring to Colossians 2:20-23 NASB. There was something very specific about those commands of men that differentiated them from his own 'I, not the Lord' counsel he dispensed concerning marriage in 1 Corinthians 7.

By the way, great stuff to talk about amongst brothers and sisters.....as long as no one of us decides we don't want to listen and start playing our denominational games.

 

[Corn Pop]

As long as you're open to discuss doctrine with an open heart and mind.....that's what matters. But if you come into a discussion and open right up with, "my mind is made up, so I don't discuss it", then the only thing we can do with you is endure you. You don't come across as being that to me.


You're referring to Colossians 2:20-23 NASB. There was something very specific about those commands of men that differentiated them from his own 'I, not the Lord' counsel he dispensed concerning marriage in 1 Corinthians 7.

Did he write timothy?, im sure in there he went on about all these rules. And I acturally posted them on this forum telling people what they should and shouldn't do at church, like women wear no jewelery and things. Lol. They were just Pauls man made rules. Unless Christians agree no one should wear jewelery at church.