Alcohol in Heaven

[researcher]

Noah got drunk. It does not say anywhere that he was a "drunkard" as in, continually getting drunk.

Never said he was. I said he "feel" because of his appetite.

Whether he "fell" or not remains to seen.

He fell. His "righteousness" and his "character" were exposed when he was drunk.

Gen 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.

Do you suppose this is what God desired for Noah?
[quote:ka94xukn]
He was a man, doing a man thing.

Right. Outside of God. He was outside of the will of God.

If I got stuck on a giant boat for a year with tons of stinky animals while the world (or region) got flooded and everyone died, I'd probably get drunk after that too! Lol.

Revealling your true character then.

That woulda sucked! (Except the living through it all part, lol).

You know researcher I think you say these inane things so others will think you're funny but I don't see too many folks laughing frankly. I think your attempted humor belittles the word of God and lowers it to your level instead of being uplifting. Just my [/quote:ka94xukn]

So say the "religious." lol 2

 

[RND]

So say the "religious." lol 2

I find your constant inane attempts at humor at the expense of the word of God quite boorish.

 

[RND]

A friend of sinners, a drinker of wine, and an eater of food, yes.

He ate with who He shouldn't have in the eyes of the Pharisees. He drank grape juice because He didn't take the Nazarite vow.

The Pharisees just made it look like he was doing something wrong, but he was entirely within his rights to do whatever he saw fit. ;)

That's why it's called derision.

 

[researcher]

So say the "religious." lol 2

I find your constant inane attempts at humor at the expense of the word of God quite boorish.

Like I said... "religious."

 

[researcher]

A friend of sinners, a drinker of wine, and an eater of food, yes.

He ate with who He shouldn't have in the eyes of the Pharisees. He drank grape juice because He didn't take the Nazarite vow.

He drank grape juice

Wine

 

[RND]

Wine

Grape juice - there is no evidence in the scripture that Jesus drank fermented grape juice.

 

[Elijah674]

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Gen 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Gen 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
Gen 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

Man, Noah's surely in hell as we speak. Dude totally messed up everything. lol :o :o :o :transformer

Noah fell the exact same way Adam did. For that matter Noah fell the way we all do: the lust of appetite.

+ 1 John 5:16-17 [sin] & [SIN UNTO MATURE DEATH]! Check Psalms 19:13's GREAT TRANSGRESSION! Also James 1:15's FINISHED ENDING.

--Elijah

 

[researcher]

Wine

Grape juice - there is no evidence in the scripture that Jesus drank fermented grape juice.

According to the SDA, but it's full of liars who don't listen.

Luk 7:33 "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you* say, 'He has a demon!'
Luk 7:34 "The Son of Humanity came eating AND drinking,

To say Jesus didn't drink fermented grape juice is just another nonsensical attempt by man's religion to re-write the Bible to fit what they want it to say. 2

 

[(THE)]

Wine

Grape juice - there is no evidence in the scripture that Jesus drank fermented grape juice.

According to the SDA, but it's full of liars who don't listen.

Luk 7:33 "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you* say, 'He has a demon!'
Luk 7:34 "The Son of Humanity came eating AND drinking,

To say Jesus didn't drink fermented grape juice is just another nonsensical attempt by man's religion to re-write the Bible to fit what they want it to say. 2

I agree and by using the process of fermenting,,,what you do is take out all the impuritys....and all that bad crap flots to the top,,you get rid of that,,, and you left with pure wine.....

The wine is symbolic to the blood of Christ,,Christ blood takes out all or infirmities/sins so after the process we are left pure......

SO there is an important lesson in Christ turning the wine to water,,,He was not doing it,,,to get everyone hammered......There is also another lesson here.....

 

[RND]

Wine

Grape juice - there is no evidence in the scripture that Jesus drank fermented grape juice.

According to the SDA, but it's full of liars who don't listen.

I don't think you should use such harsh language on the board frankly, that's unnecessary. Express your opinion, that's fine. Calling people "liars" is completely beyond the pale and it shows the level of competence in your ability to argue outside of the gutter.

To say Jesus didn't drink fermented grape juice is just another nonsensical attempt by man's religion to re-write the Bible to fit what they want it to say. 2

Maybe you could offer some proof instead of useless name calling.

Luk 7:33 "For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you* say, 'He has a demon!' Luk 7:34 "The Son of Humanity came eating AND drinking,

Apparently you are aware as maybe you should be but John the Baptist was instructed in the ways of the Navaries "before" he was even born.

Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Jesus wasn't a Nazarite as some expected Him to be. But it is a virtual "stab in the dark" to suggest that Jesus drank alcohol. There are a total of -zero-, zilch, nada scriptures that say Jesus drank anything other that fresh squeezed grape juice.

 

[researcher]

There are a total of -zero-, zilch, nada scriptures that say Jesus drank anything other that fresh squeezed grape juice.

Nonsensical.

More SDA belief
"Heavenly sanctuary (fundamental belief 24)—At his ascension, Jesus Christ commenced an atoning ministry in the heavenly sanctuary. In 1844, he began to cleanse the heavenly sanctuary in fulfillment of the Day of Atonement." 2

Highly nonsensical.

 

[RND]

There are a total of -zero-, zilch, nada scriptures that say Jesus drank anything other that fresh squeezed grape juice.

Nonsensical.

Great! Prove it! Show us the proof you have that Jesus drank alcohol. My guess is you have none! Or maybe you use your desire to drink beer as proof that somehow Jesus must have drank wine!

Maybe Jesus smoked dope because, after all, He drank wine! Maybe He did father kids as Dan Brown says because, after all, He drank hooch! Yep, do anything do bring Christ down to your level.

More SDA belief
"Heavenly sanctuary (fundamental belief 24)—At his ascension, Jesus Christ commenced an atoning ministry in the heavenly sanctuary. In 1844, he began to cleanse the heavenly sanctuary in fulfillment of the Day of Atonement." 2

Highly nonsensical.

I see you need to try to attack me and my beliefs because obviously your argument has been found wanting! Typical. When defeated try diversion!

Here's the 24th FB in total (since you shorten it and excluded the Biblical cites for your own aims):

24. Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary:
There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent. (Heb. 8:1-5; 4:14-16; 9:11-28; 10:19-22; 1:3; 2:16, 17; Dan. 7:9-27; 8:13, 14; 9:24-27; Num. 14:34; Eze. 4:6; Lev. 16; Rev. 14:6, 7; 20:12; 14:12; 22:12.)

 

[researcher]

Yep, do anything do bring Christ down to your level.

Accusatory

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


SDA beliefs

"Adventists are known for presenting a "health message" that recommends vegetarianism and expects adherence to the kosher laws in Leviticus 11. Obedience to these laws means abstinence from pork, shellfish, and other foods proscribed as "unclean". The church discourages its members from the use of alcohol..."

 

[Elijah674]

Hi! We are a senitive bunch But, 'i' am old & had years ago gone that pathway before Christ turned me around to give it ALL UP! Phil. 4:13

And if taking satans stuff would cause perhaps my young'ins death?? What would I do 'by example' if I were even not sure?? Remember that I LOVE MY YOUNG'INS + MY SAVIOR!
And about even me being called a LIAR?? This is one way how I found Christian's from the non/'c'hristians! When any of these ones 'taught' stuff??? Usally it turned out to be satan's garbage! (Kind of like Isa. 8:20 testing)

--Elijah

 

[Panin]

Umm hello, are you talking about the trustworty righteous dudes who nailed him to a cross for claiming to be God? They also told us he was a devil, obvioulsy they are going to tell us he was a drunkard aswell.

[quote:31umezyc]Yes. These are the very people that derided and called Jesus names.

And they called him a friend of sinners and publicans too! The gall of those people! Telling lies like that. lol

Luk 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
Luk 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners![/quote:31umezyc]

Okay so Jesus was a pisshead, is that what your saying? Was he getting free services from the prostitutes aswell?

And lo - Jesus rose at about 3.00 in the afternoon sporting a stonking headache from the previous nights revelry, and He took two deciples with him, also terribly hungover carrying a ceg, up into the garden of Gethsemene which was a mess of empty beer bottles and used condoms, and the a voice from heaven rang out, this is my son in whom I am well ticked off with, clean up this freaken mess.

Give me a break!!!

 

[RND]

Accusatory

Not at all. Just stating fact.

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

I haven't accused you of anything brother. By your own admission you drink and insist Jesus drank alcohol as well. Clearly there has been no proof offered that Jesus drank alcohol so what else am I left to conclude?

SDA beliefs

"Adventists are known for presenting a "health message" that recommends vegetarianism and expects adherence to the kosher laws in Leviticus 11.

Again, I see where you're going. You have no argument so you have to attack, call people liars, etc.

There is nothing in the Bible that states that a Christian has been freed from abiding by the excellent advice that God the Father has given His children through His word.

Now that you've managed to derail the topic I'll go on.

Obedience to these laws means abstinence from pork, shellfish, and other foods proscribed as "unclean".

The SDA church didn't come up with this restrictions....God did. God determined what is clean to be eaten for food and what isn't. If you have a concern take it the Lord.

The church discourages its members from the use of alcohol..."

Yes it does.

 

[researcher]

The SDA church didn't come up with this restrictions....God did. God determined what is clean to be eaten for food and what isn't. If you have a concern take it the Lord.

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

 

[RND]

The SDA church didn't come up with this restrictions....God did. God determined what is clean to be eaten for food and what isn't. If you have a concern take it the Lord.

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Regarding hand washing found in the Talmud.

Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Regarding eating foods sacrificed to idols.

Mar 7:15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

See Matthew 15.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

Exactly. What is sanctified to be eaten by God's word?

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Was it commandments of men or of God as to what is to be eaten?

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Does the liberty of Christ tell you that you can do anything you want, when you want?

researcher, you have managed to derail this thread and turn the argument into an attack of SDA beliefs when clearly you have been asked to use scripture to prove Jesus drank alcohol. This shows the level of character you possess I'm afraid because instead of offering things to bolster the points you made (which is an indictment of your argument) you have to attempt to derail the thread.

Now please, offer up the proof you have that Jesus drank alcohol or refrain from derailing the thread.

Look, I know you are like most Christians. Instead of taking to heart the good advise of the word of God you rebel against it and try to justify your bad behavior. :verysad

 

[researcher]

offer up the proof you have that Jesus drank alcohol or refrain from derailing the thread.

"Many churches apparently believe and avidly teach that biblical wine is really unfermented grape juice. According to all indications both implicit and explicit, there is no possible way for this position to appear at all feasible. First, Noah could not have gotten drunk on grape juice (Genesis 9:21), nor could have Lot (Genesis 19:32-35). "But," some will claim, "that was Old Testament wine which was obviously alcoholic. The New Testament is clear in its condemnation of the use of alcohol and the instances where `wine' is drunk it is grape juice only." Even a quick look at the New Testament exposes the error of this argument. In John 2:11, the already-mentioned miracle at Cana is recounted. In accordance with Jewish custom, they were drinking real wine. It was a joyful occasion with probably several hundred people attending, so Jesus helped when the wine supply became prematurely exhausted. The product had to be fermented wine, for if it had been mere grape juice, there would have been complaints rather than superb compliments. "A feast is made for laughter, and wine makes merry" says Ecclesiastes 10:19 with the Hebrew word requiring a fermented product!

Then at the "Last Supper" Jesus passed around wine to His disciples. Since this was six to seven months after the grape harvest and since there was no way to preserve grape juice, this also had to be fermented wine. (The actual phrase is "fruit of the vine," but, as pointed out by The New Westminster Dictionary of the Bible, this expression was "employed by the Jews from time immemorial for the wine partaken of on sacred occasions, as at the Passover and on the evening of the Sabbath. The Greeks also used the term as a synonym of wine which was capable of intoxication.")

The Greek word used in John 2:1-11 for "wine" and in Paul's command to Timothy to drink wine (1 Timothy 5:23) is the term oinos. This same word appears in Ephesians 5:18 ("be not drunk with wine") and Luke 10:34 ("and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine"). Can you get drunk on grape juice? Would you pour grape juice on a wound? Of course not! You get drunk on alcoholic wine and fermented wine would provide sufficient alcoholic content to serve as an antiseptic. The New Testament always refers to fermented wine. And how could the apostles stand to be accused of being drunk on grape juice (Acts 2:13-15)?"

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/does ... cohol.html

 

[researcher]

offer up the proof you have that Jesus drank alcohol or refrain from derailing the thread.

"Some take the words for wine to mean ‘grape juice.’ If this were so, then why would there be prohibitions against drunkenness? One cannot get drunk on grape juice. Further, Jesus’ first miracle was changing the water into wine at the wedding of Cana in Galilee. He made between 120 and 180 gallons of wine! Even if this had been grape juice, it would soon turn to wine because the fermentation process would immediately begin. But it most certainly was not grape juice: the head waiter in John 2:10 said, “Every man sets out the good wine first, then after the guests have drunk freely, the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.†The verb translated ‘drunk freely’ is almost always used of getting drunk (and is so translated in the NRSV here). In the least, the people at this wedding feast, if not drunk, would certainly be drinking alcohol fairly freely (if not, this verb means something here that is nowhere else attested4). And this makes perfect sense in the context: The reason why a man brings out the poorer wine later is because the good wine has numbed the senses a bit. Grape juice would hardly mask anything. Note also Acts 2:13—â€they are full of sweet wineâ€â€”an inaccurate comment made about the apostles when they began speaking in tongues, as though this explained their unusual behavior. The point is: If they were full of grape juice would this comment even have made any sense at all? That would be like saying, “Well, they’re all acting strange and silly because they have had too much orange juice this morning!â€

There are other references to alcoholic beverages in the Bible: Several times in the first books of the Bible, wine and strong drink are prohibited to those who take a Nazarite vow (cf. Num 6, Judges 13). Even grape juice and fresh and dried grapes (i.e., raisins, as the NIV renders the word) are prohibited to the Nazarite (Numbers 6:3)!5 But that restriction is only for those who make this vow. If someone today wants to claim that believers do not have the right to drink alcohol on the analogy of a Nazarite vow (as some today are fond of doing), they also should say that believers ought not to eat Raisin Bran!
Negative Statements about Wine Indicate that it is not Grape Juice

Further, the Bible at times speaks very harshly about becoming enslaved to drink or allowing it to control a person, especially to the point of drunkenness. Proverbs 20:1—“Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, And whoever is intoxicated by it is not wise†(NASB). Cf. also Prov 21:17 (where heavy drinking and gluttony are equally condemned); 1 Sam 1:14; Isa 5:11, 22; 28:1 (drunkenness is condemned); 28:7; 29:9; 56:12; Jer 23:9; 51:7; Joel 3:3. In the New Testament notice: Eph 5:18 (“do not get drunk with wineâ€); 1 Tim 3:3, 8; Titus 1:7 ([elders and deacons ought not be] “addicted to wine or strong drinkâ€); Titus 2:3 (older women, who would serve as role models to the younger ones, must not be addicted to wine). As well, numerous passages use wine or drunkenness in an analogy about God’s wrath, immorality, etc. (cf. Rev. 14:8, 10; 16:19; 17:2; 18:3).

The significance of these negative statements is just this: If this were only grape juice, why would excess in drinking it be condemned? If this were only grape juice, why are certain mental effects attributed to it (cf., e.g., Psalm 60:3)? One can’t have it both ways. You can’t say that wine is always grape juice, for then the negative statements in scripture make no sense; those who say that it is only grape juice tend to focus just on the neutral and positive passages, conveniently allowing them to condemn the drinking of real wine at all times. But even this position is not logical: If the Bible only speaks of grape juice, then it makes no comment about alcoholic wine. And if so, then it does not directly prohibit it. And if we are going to prohibit something that the Bible does not address, why stop at wine? Why don’t we include the ballet, opera, football games, country-western music (actually, I might be in favor of banning this one!), salt water fishing, zippers on clothes, etc. Once legalism infests the soul it doesn’t know where to quit.

In sum, is wine the same as grape juice? No, for if it were, the Bible would hardly condemn the abuse of such. Those who argue that the two are identical simply cannot handle the passages that speak about excess."

http://bible.org/article/bible-and-alcohol