Alcohol is Satan's chief tool in the highway to hell.....

[Soma-Sight]

Most people would say that getting drunk is wrong, but many people feel that there is nothing wrong with “social drinking,†when done in moderation. There may be a difference in degree of intoxication between a “social drinker†and a drunkard, but there is really very little difference between the two. Whether the person drinks a great deal, or only a little, the alcohol impairs him. Drinking moderately makes one “moderately drunk.†God has never allowed “moderate sin.†Sin is sin in His sight.

Wise King Solomon said, “Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise†(Proverbs 20:1). He asks, “Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder†(Proverbs 23:29-32). Solomon’s vivid words depict one of the great dangers of consuming alcohol --- “at the last it biteth like a serpent.â€Â

People drink for many reasons. Sometimes it is because of loneliness, or pain, or failure. Often people just want to follow the crowd, or have a good time. Those problems the drinker wants to escape from through the bottle are still there when he is sober again, though. Christ came to help us overcome the problems that face us. Among the Christians at Corinth were former drunkards. Paul reminded them, “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God†(1 Corinthians 6:9-11).

God intended for Christianity, not alcohol, to fill the void in people’s lives. Paul wrote, “Be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord†(Ephesians 5:18-19).

Some say that drinking is not really that serious, compared to other sins. That does not excuse it in God’s sight, however. According to 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, cited above, God classes the drunkard with idolaters, fornicators, and thieves. Alcohol devastates millions of families each year. The influence and power of alcohol bring broken homes, traffic fatalities, and general chaos. Whether alcohol is used moderately or immoderately, it is sinful and opposed to the will of God. A significant percentage of people who try to “social drink†end up as alcoholics, unable to curb or control their desire for alcohol. With all the well-known problems of alcohol, why take a risk by social drinking?


http://www.jvillecoc.org/hth/biblequest ... on0064.htm

 

[Soma-Sight]

One question, do you support a person's right to own guns? Because I think this goes along the same logic. Guns also lead to death but remember guns dont kill people, people kill people. like any drug, Alcohol should be used responsibly. You should never drink and drive or binge drink etc. If alcohol was so evil then why did Jesus turn water into wine? Why did jesus command his disciples to drink wine in rememberance of him? (sorry it was not grape juice). what is a sinner hangout? Arent we all sinners? Doesnt that mean that every place is a sinner's hangout? Have you ever drank alcohol? It def. does not disturb sleep patterns .

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas will not save your soul.

Neither will promoting addiction.

 

[chris overy]

soma sight,

please show me scripture that jesus drank watered down wine. thre is a scripture that tells us to drink wine as it settles the stomach. the only scriptures that i have seen concerning alcohal states that we are not to drink to drunkeness.


chris

 

[chris overy]

soma sight,

please show me scripture that jesus drank watered down wine. thre is a scripture that tells us to drink wine as it settles the stomach. the only scriptures that i have seen concerning alcohal states that we are not to drink to drunkeness.


chris

 

[tim-from-pa]

Ya know folks, these threads about wine makes my stomach a little unsettled. Now..... what should I do for a bad stomach?

I'll take Paul's advice to Timothy, no less.

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake.

 

[penlost]

Surely alcohol is just the same as anything else. Fine until you start to take it to excess or develop an addiction. For some people who are suspectable to alcohol addiction then I an accept that they need to stay away from alcohol but otherwise, come on :roll: Common sense?

To suggest that everybody who drinks ends up being an alcoholic at some point is madness at best. Me thinks Mr Soma is an ex-addict that does not see the bigger picture or he is trying to wind people up. I wonder ? :

 

[Soma-Sight]

To suggest that everybody who drinks ends up being an alcoholic at some point is madness at best. Me thinks Mr Soma is an ex-addict that does not see the bigger picture or he is trying to wind people up. I wonder ?

Who has woe?
Who has sorrow?
Who has contentions?
Who has complaints?
Who has wounds without cause?
Who has redness of eyes?
Those who linger long at the wine,
Those who go in search of mixed wine.
Do not look on the wine when it is red,
When it sparkles in the cup,
When it swirls around smoothly;
At the last it bites like a serpent,
And stings like a viper.
Your eyes will see strange things,
And your heart will utter perverse things.
Yes, you will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea,
Or like one who lies at the top of the mast, saying:
"They have struck me, but I was not hurt;
They have beaten me, but I did not feel it.
When shall I awake, that I may seek another drink?"
(Prov. 23:29-35)

 

[Soma-Sight]

JESUS SINNED AS HE GOT PEOPLE DRUNK IN HIS FIRST MIRACLE AT THE WEDDING AS RECORDED IN JOHN......

Habakkuk 2:15, "Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also..."

 

[Soma-Sight]

JESUS PROMOTES ALCOHOL?????

HARDLY....

ANOTHER ABOMINATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.....

 

[Soma-Sight]

The Myth of Natural Fermentation


Nature NEVER forms spirituous liquors. The fruit (grape) may rot and turn sour but it takes ART to convert juice to alcohol. The indispensable conditions for vinous fermentation are exact proportions of sugar, yeast or gluten and water with air temperature between 50 and 75 degrees. Chemical science forbids vinous fermentation when heat exceeds 75 degrees and assures the acetous (vinegar). Since the Middle East is well above that even at night most of the year, something had to be done to preserve the juice (wine) for the year, or else it would all turn to vinegar! To assume it was all turned to alcoholic wine is a ridiculous assertion and flies in the face of historical fact. Josephus, famous Jewish historian declares that he has seen provisions at the Jewish fortress Massada including grapes and fruits, kept fresh to last for 100 years!!!! Pliny the Roman historian confirms this. Don't let anyone tell you that grapes have to be kept by making alcoholic wine so they can last the year!!



So we see that the portrayal that grape juice was only preserved by fermentation is utterly false. Unfermented wine was the most common wine in biblical times. It was not what we know as wine today which is always alcoholic. You cannot defend wine drinking today on the basis of biblical times because the two are totally different.





Argument from the Passover



Some will still say that Jesus Christ indeed drank alcoholic wine and we know this by the Passover (which was the last supper - Mark 14:14-17). There is a difference of seven months grapes between the harvest and Passover. They will say “they didn't have refrigerators, so to keep the grapes from souring, they were fermentedâ€Â. As we have shown above, the seven month time span would not have been a problem due to the multitude of frequently used preservation methods, all of which easier than fermentation, available to the people at that time.



Furthermore, in Matthew 26 it was "the fruit of the vine†(verse 29) they drank. This is also in Mark 14, Luke 22, and 1 Corinthians 11. The “fruit of the vine†would be grapes, and when the grapes are crushed they do not make alcoholic wine. You do know that God calls it wine while the juice is still in the grape don't you?



Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster....



If you have ever seen a painting of the last supper you will know that Jesus was depicted holding up a cluster of grapes at the last supper, not a Budweiser.





Argument from the Good Samaritan



Another contention about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine stems from the story of the Good Samaritan. The Greek word for wine used here is oinos. The claim is that it is alcoholic here because the Good Samaritan used it as an antiseptic. This is the same Greek word used in John 2, so it is contended that Jesus did turn the water into alcoholic wine.



If you know anything at all about Greek you know that oinos can refer to fermented or unfermented grape juice. The word oinos is used at least 33 times in the LXX to translate tirosh the Hebrew word for grape juice. The word “wine†not only in Greek, but in Old English, in Latin, and in Hebrew is a generic term including all kinds of wine, unfermented and fermented.



In the 1828 Webster’s dictionary wine is defined as unfermented and fermented juice. Only by context can one know whether the wine in question is fermented or not. Thus, the fact the wine made by Christ at Cana is called oinos offers no grounds for concluding hat it was fermented wine.



It is interesting that the new versions, which claim to have up-to-date language, still translate all these original language words as wine since the definition of the English word "wine" has changed in the last 100 years. Where the KJB is accurate in its translation given the definition of the word in 1611, the new versions misrepresent the true meaning of these Hebrew and Greek words when they translate what is by definition juice in the Old Testament (tirosh) and clearly presented as such in context in the New Testament.



It is a false private interpretation of these passages in the NIV that the guests, including Jesus, were drunken and then Jesus made more to further the intoxication. The fact is that the context tells us otherwise. By the simple fact that the governor of the feast noted that He had saved the good wine until last. If they had been intoxicated the governor would not have been able to tell it was the best because his senses would be dulled. The argument from the Greek word oinos is completely invalid.





Argument from the Pharisee's Accusation



Another contention about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine comes from what our Lord said about the Pharisees. The Lord was demonstrating how it was impossible to please these arrogant theological intellectuals. No matter what you did they could find it to be wrong somehow. Jesus gives the illustration like this:



Matthew 11:18-19
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.



The argument from this passage goes like this: "Jesus must have drank alcoholic wine or they would not have made the accusation". That is an interesting comment, one that I considered very closely. However, if this argumentation is correct it must be applicable to the former comment about John the Baptist. For them to accuse him he must have been possessed by a devil (maybe just a little one and only infrequently). The obvious implication of this analogy is that neither is true. John was not possessed of a devil, and Jesus did not drink alcoholic wine and therefore could not have been a winebibber. It also bears mention that the Pharisees also accused him of breaking the Sabbath by healing the sick, and of blaspheming God by making Himself equal with God. Neither of these accusations were true since helping the sick on the Sabbath does not fall under the category of work (Mark 3:3-5), and He was equal and co-eternal with the Father (John 1:1-18).





What Does the Bible Say About Drinking?



Proverbs 23:29-35
29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.



I know, I know, you guys that drink alcohol never drink too much do you? Sure you don't. I was around people who drank this stuff a lot before I was saved and I know from experience that someone who drinks almost always does it to get a buzz from it. Do your eyes behold strange women when you drink? Do you utter perverse things, like curse words, or dirty jokes when you drink? I am convinced that most of the fornication going on out there is at least partially attributable to alcohol consumption. Even the most worldly people consider it a sin product. Keep justifying it in your mind, but remember this verse:



Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.




Is Wine Destructive?



As I have demonstrated, nowhere in scripture do we find Jesus drinking alcoholic wine. Alcohol is destructive and addictive. It is a depressant drug that actually attacks the brain cells and destroys them. Twenty percent of all patients admitted into mental hospitals have a problem with alcohol. Alcohol has caused numerous health and social problems. In addition to this a majority of traffic fatalities and accidents can be directly attributive to alcohol. Drunkenness destroys lives and relationships. It is not just a disease. It is a sin.



Notice the damage alcohol did in the lives of these Bible characters:

Noah - It brought shame (Genesis 9:21).

Lot - His daughters committed incest (Genesis 19:30-36).

Nabal - God killed him (1Samuel 25:36-37).

Elah - Was murdered by Zimri (1Kings 16:9-10).

Belshazzar - The Assyrians take his kingdom (Daniel 5)

The Corinthians - During the Lord's Super God kills some (1Corinthians 11).



Where Do You Get Your Joy?



Some people seek their happiness, comfort and peace in a bottle. The Lord will always be the Christian's source of joy. Jesus said in John 15:11, "These things have I spoken unto you that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full". 1John 1:4 reminds us, "And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full".



God has given us His Word to provide comfort and to maintain joy in our lives. The Christian's happiness does not come in a bottle. It comes in a book -- the Bible! Consider that others are watching our example. What example are we setting? 1st Thessalonians 5:22 warns us,

“Abstain from all appearance of evilâ€Â.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20 ... d_wine.htm

 

[tim-from-pa]

Soma:

Maybe you had some bad experience, and you are hurting. IN that case, I cannot blame you. But you have to see that the problem is people abusing alcohol--- not alcohol, per se. And no---- not all people that drink end up drunkards. I drink, but generally stop at 3 or less and never drive just in case. It maketh a merry heart as Solomon would say. I've been doing this for years and am not an alcoholic.

I would put aside your blinders and understand that its the misuse that's the problem. God pronounced wine as a clean food that his people could have. If you continue to contradicting scripture that allows its usage, you may find yourself opposing God. Stop trying to rewrite God's word.

 

[Soma-Sight]

More than 100,000 deaths are caused by excessive alcohol consumption each year in the U.S. Direct and indirect causes of death include drunk driving, cirrhosis of the liver, falls, cancer, and stroke. 1

At least once a year, the guidelines for low risk drinking are exceeded by an estimated 74% of male drinkers and 72% of female drinkers aged 21 and older. 2

65% of the youth surveyed said that they got the alcohol they drink from family and friends. 7

Nearly 14 million Americans meet diagnostic criteria for alcohol use disorders. 5

Youth who drink alcohol are 50 times more likely to use cocaine than those who never drink alcohol. 3

Among current adult drinkers, more than half say they have a blood relative who is or was an alcoholic or problem drinker. 1

Across people of all ages, males are four times as likely as females to be heavy drinkers. 1

More than 18% of Americans experience alcohol abuse or alcohol dependence at some time in their lives. 6

Traffic crashes are the greatest single cause of death for persons aged 6–33. About 45% of these fatalities are in alcohol-related crashes. 4

Underage drinking costs the United States more than $58 billion every year – enough to buy every public school student a state-of-the-art computer. 2

Alcohol is the most commonly used drug among young people. 1

Problem drinkers average four times as many days in the hospital as nondrinkers – mostly because of drinking-related injuries. 1

Alcohol kills 6½ times more youth than all other illicit drugs combined. 2

Concerning the past 30 days, 50% of high school seniors report drinking, with 32% report being drunk at least once. 2

 

[CrimsonCross]

as long as there is liquor stores available, people are going to drink alcohol. Simple as that.

So many people want to live free. They just have the concept wrong. Free as in do everything and anything, with a few guidelines. or one at all..

Maybe thats why we have jails..

 

[stray bullet]

alcohol abuse is a symptom of a greater problem.

 

[Solo]

alcohol abuse is a symptom of a greater problem.

Yep, most call it a "drinking problem". :

 

[stray bullet]

Yep, most call it a "drinking problem". :

Alcohol doesn't force itself down anyone's mouth. People drink because of personal problems and unhealthy choices. Civilization has been drinking for 10,000 years.

 

[Oscar3]

You realize when you say that, you are saying that when Jesus turned water into wine that he was causing a lot of people to sin.
Be careful what you say, and do more research.

Amen sister.
8-)

 

[tim-from-pa]

Soma:

well, we're all sorry that apparently you have such a fear of alcohol because of those who misuse it. You're probably the type that does not have the fortitude to have one drink without becoming hooked, so you assume everyone else does. Sorry to hear that. As for me, I can have one or two and even three and God tells me its not a sin because his Word allows it.

Here's a scripture about wine (strong drink) and yes, the translation means just that.

And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.

Actually, this is really a COMMAND from God for the second tithe. Do you tithe?

Alcohol in moderation is not sinful, salt is not bad for you (they don't know what they are talking about) and olive oil is not bad for you in spite of those pyramids that say otherwise about staying away from fats. If we follow God's dietary laws in the Bible, we know what's allowed and what is not for our health.

Go to any liquor store (if you so dare) and find a kosher bottle of wine with a picture of a Rabbi on it. The Jews know God's laws better than anybody, and they know that wine is permitted.

Stop deluding yourself and start believing scripturally instead of interpreting God's Word to fit your notions. It's a dangerous game you are plying.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Actually, this is really a COMMAND from God for the second tithe. Do you tithe?

Yes!

Alcohol in moderation is not sinful, salt is not bad for you (they don't know what they are talking about) and olive oil is not bad for you in spite of those pyramids that say otherwise about staying away from fats. If we follow God's dietary laws in the Bible, we know what's allowed and what is not for our health.

Go to any liquor store (if you so dare) and find a kosher bottle of wine with a picture of a Rabbi on it. The Jews know God's laws better than anybody, and they know that wine is permitted.

Stop deluding yourself and start believing scripturally instead of interpreting God's Word to fit your notions. It's a dangerous game you are plying.

Drinking the alcohol of today is a sin.

Plain and Simple.

As revealed by God's Word.

Read and see for yourself!

29Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?


SOUNDS LIKE GODLY FRUIT?????

30They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.

31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

HMMMMMM..... LOOK NOT AT THE WINE WHEN IT MOVES IN THE CUP...... LOOK NOT IMPLIES TASTE NOT!!!!!!

32At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

WINE BITES LIKE A SERPENT????? YOU MEAN IT BEARS THE FRUITS OF DEATH?????

33Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

FORNICATION!!!! ANOTHER FRUIT OF THE FLESH!!!!!

34Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.

HANGOVER TIME!!!!

35They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

EVER BEEN HUNG OVER TIM FROM PA????

 

[Soma-Sight]

Tim from Pa.....

Ever had a hangover before????

If so you have crossed the line of "moderation" one time too many!

Why take the risk?

What do you NEED to drink for?