[__ Science __ ] All bets are off

[brujaq]

You have told me that story before, and just like the last one, how can we verify this story to test what was going on? Are there other witnesses? Can we talk to this canteen lady?

Wrong, different account and testimony, and the only confirmation I got was she came to try to thank me and told me what happened, she was amazed . There are tens, hundreds of thousands of testimonies out there MD . But you refuse to investigate but I will continue to mention what I've seen Jesus do, you may not look for God but some may read these messages who are. Truth is I don't keep up with folks I lead to the Lord or folks Jesus has let me share in miracles with, it's none of my business anymore, a few I become friends with but most I don't even remember their name .No way I could or want to . This is my testimony of Jesus . God sends us and we are salvation to some and condemnation to others, belief is up to each individual . You are the one who comes to Christian forums, why is that ? Like I said, I could write a book . Most born again Christians could too . Why would I keep up with every answered prayer for your investigation or approval . The Bible says that if everything were written about Jesus the Earth itself could not contain the books .
Jesus was born of a virgin lived his life fulfilling ancient prophecy and showing us how to live and act towards man and God, he was crucified, died for our sin then he even resurrected from the dead to prove to us life after death . I don't try to save every one just keep their blood off my hands but you are like the majority each person .. Another remarkable thing about Jesus , he never quit .If you ever receive salvation you'll know what I'm talking about and we'll rejoice together, and I'll say ''I know right, I was the same way''

 

[brujaq]

No here is the thing, the question is "can you give an example of an evolutionary process that can be seen to increase the information in the genome?" There is a few problems with this question, it almost gibberish. What is accepted as information? What is meant by seen? When the interviewer asks about the evolutionary process is she asking about through mechanics or through natural selection?

Off the top of his head he would have to remember the exact sequence of genes and their names, and have to pick a specific lineage to explain. Now its easier to show through allele frequencies and applying it to a populations over time because you can test for new alleles and see how it spreads over a population with the Hardy Weinberg equation. Plus Dawkins isn't a geneticist, he is an evolutionary biologist. His field is about applying and studying the mechanics of the theory, not necessarily about what the names of the genes that specifically affect the genome. That would be a Geneticist or Phylogonist. Scientists don't have encyclopedia brains where they can recall, scientists are skilled researchers that know a lot about a specific topic, but not an encompassing knowledge of all of science.

If you shuffle and deal hands from a deck of Old Maid cards forever you will never get a hand of aces and eights , that comes from a different kind of deck because like DNA the cards information is confined to the deck, You may shuffle and deal until you wear the lambs of off them but never different kinds of cards, right ?

 

[Edward]

So I've been told that science must be free of the supernatural existence . I say ''what do you do with the elephant in the room'' . I've seen a lot of miracles, prophecy is coming true, and Jesus remains the same .
There are science and natural law created by God that he routinely intercedes and overrides at our request or according to his will . I love science and God together . I don't get how Atheists can throw God out of the science equation and look down their nose at believers .

You don't get it Brother? There is a spiritual war going on. A real one. Satan and his minions were kicked out of heaven. They hate God. They can not touch God...so they mess with His creation and try to destroy us and the Earth.

Science is trying to hide God. They're catching up and proving that God exists. The archeologists are doing it too. They're searching for the so-called 'God Particle'...they will never find it. Because it is love and they are full of hate.

There is a real Spiritual battle going on...Keep your eyes open...and your sword sharp.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Wrong, different account and testimony,

You have told this story in a different thread.That is where I read it.

and the only confirmation I got was she came to try to thank me and told me what happened, she was amazed . There are tens, hundreds of thousands of testimonies out there MD . But you refuse to investigate

You don't understand, there can't be an investigation on this because its just you relaying a story. What do we test? That you told us something? Researchers would need access to the person this happened to, or at lest have you make prayers on test subjects in a controlled environment to figure out how its going on. That is what science is, a way of testing, researching, and verifying information and data.

but I will continue to mention what I've seen Jesus do, you may not look for God but some may read these messages who are. Truth is I don't keep up with folks I lead to the Lord or folks Jesus has let me share in miracles with, it's none of my business anymore, a few I become friends with but most I don't even remember their name .No way I could or want to . This is my testimony of Jesus . God sends us and we are salvation to some and condemnation to others, belief is up to each individual .

Then I don't know what exactly you are talking about when it comes to science. Right now the closest comparison I can give you is that your stories and testimonials you are sharing with us are similar to someone going to a mechanic and wanting their car fixed without bringing your car in. There is only so much that can be done until the case or car is brought in. Do you understand what I'm saying? You can tell me all about these testimonials, but until one can be tested with scientific controls there is nothing science can really say about it.

Like I said, I could write a book . Most born again Christians could too . Why would I keep up with every answered prayer for your investigation or approval . The Bible says that if everything were written about Jesus the Earth itself could not contain the books .

Easy, you made a thread about Science not doing something and I'm explaining to you why.

Jesus was born of a virgin lived his life fulfilling ancient prophecy and showing us how to live and act towards man and God, he was crucified, died for our sin then he even resurrected from the dead to prove to us life after death . I don't try to save every one just keep their blood off my hands but you are like the majority each person .. Another remarkable thing about Jesus , he never quit .If you ever receive salvation you'll know what I'm talking about and we'll rejoice together, and I'll say ''I know right, I was the same way''

My question to you is, do you try to understand the person you are talking to when you are proselytizing? I ask this because it doesn't seem that you are listening to what I'm saying, but being dismissive and just posting rehearsed testimonials instead of having a full conversation.

 

[Milk-Drops]

If you shuffle and deal hands from a deck of Old Maid cards forever you will never get a hand of aces and eights , that comes from a different kind of deck because like DNA the cards information is confined to the deck, You may shuffle and deal until you wear the lambs of off them but never different kinds of cards, right ?

No, DNA isn't fixed like the cards. DNA is a sequence of proteins that form genes that pair or replicate during reproduction. Mutations can happen when DNA is written when its reproduced. When the organism begins to grow the genes are read as instructions to build the organism. Mutations change the end result. Mutations are like if every time you shuffle the deck to deal it there is a chance a card could duplicate, be removed, damaged, added to, added, etc. There are processes that try to curb mutations, but there don't catch all of them.

 

[brujaq]

You have told this story in a different thread.That is where I read it.

You don't understand, there can't be an investigation on this because its just you relaying a story. What do we test? That you told us something? Researchers would need access to the person this happened to, or at lest have you make prayers on test subjects in a controlled environment to figure out how its going on. That is what science is, a way of testing, researching, and verifying information and data.





Then I don't know what exactly you are talking about when it comes to science. Right now the closest comparison I can give you is that your stories and testimonials you are sharing with us are similar to someone going to a mechanic and wanting their car fixed without bringing your car in. There is only so much that can be done until the case or car is brought in. Do you understand what I'm saying? You can tell me all about these testimonials, but until one can be tested with scientific controls there is nothing science can really say about it.


Easy, you made a thread about Science not doing something and I'm explaining to you why.
My question to you is, do you try to understand the person you are talking to when you are proselytizing? I ask this because it doesn't seem that you are listening to what I'm saying, but being dismissive and just posting rehearsed testimonials instead of having a full conversation.

And I'm telling you unless you acknowledge God you will be ever learning but never being able to come to the Truth , Creation, the natural called from the supernatural . When has their ever been an animal half formed or anything but perfectly functional, when has there ever existed a creature not fully complex and complete or had to wait to evolve .

 

[brujaq]

No, DNA isn't fixed like the cards. DNA is a sequence of proteins that form genes that pair or replicate during reproduction. Mutations can happen when DNA is written when its reproduced. When the organism begins to grow the genes are read as instructions to build the organism. Mutations change the end result. Mutations are like if every time you shuffle the deck to deal it there is a chance a card could duplicate, be removed, damaged, added to, added, etc. There are processes that try to curb mutations, but there don't catch all of them.

You're saying DNA information is not confined to the specific cell ?
Mutations may happen but it would be like wearing the lamb off the card and non beneficial and disadvantaged, right ?

 

[brujaq]

You have told this story in a different thread.That is where I read it.

You don't understand, there can't be an investigation on this because its just you relaying a story. What do we test? That you told us something? Researchers would need access to the person this happened to, or at lest have you make prayers on test subjects in a controlled environment to figure out how its going on. That is what science is, a way of testing, researching, and verifying information and data.





Then I don't know what exactly you are talking about when it comes to science. Right now the closest comparison I can give you is that your stories and testimonials you are sharing with us are similar to someone going to a mechanic and wanting their car fixed without bringing your car in. There is only so much that can be done until the case or car is brought in. Do you understand what I'm saying? You can tell me all about these testimonials, but until one can be tested with scientific controls there is nothing science can really say about it.


Easy, you made a thread about Science not doing something and I'm explaining to you why.
My question to you is, do you try to understand the person you are talking to when you are proselytizing? I ask this because it doesn't seem that you are listening to what I'm saying, but being dismissive and just posting rehearsed testimonials instead of having a full conversation.

Same story, I'd love to humble myself and ask your forgiveness

 

[Milk-Drops]

And I'm telling you unless you acknowledge God you will be ever learning but never being able to come to the Truth , Creation, the natural called from the supernatural .

This is all literally aside the point. Science doesn't comment on the supper natural for the same reason hammers don't screw in screws. Different fields with different tool. Science isn't based on testomonials or faith. Religion is. That is a different tool set. Christianity says you need to accept god to know truth. Science doesn't deal with "Truths" but with data. The reason Science and Religion clash is because they are not heading for the same end goal.

When has their ever been an animal half formed or anything but perfectly functional, when has there ever existed a creature not fully complex and complete or had to wait to evolve .

That is not what the theory of evolution is. The theory of evolution is a theoretical frame work that known mechanics work in populations that track the changes in organisms over generations.

Organism aren't half formed because there isn't a specific end goal, but instead through generations newer traits emerge and spread through populations through selection pressures and after several generations the organism's lineage shows how the alleles are expressed. An example is fur pattern changes, lengthening of limbs, eye color, bone or skull shape, changing the basic function of a hormone producer, etc. That is all evolution is, Genetics and taxonomy come together and tracks these physical and genetic changes through lineages and have formed groupings and family lines that show how all organisms are related and taken fossils and tracked them to their origins. That is it. That is all evolution is. It explains why Birds are technically dinosaurs and how humans diverged from other hominid species. That is it.

 

[brujaq]

You don't get it Brother? There is a spiritual war going on. A real one. Satan and his minions were kicked out of heaven. They hate God. They can not touch God...so they mess with His creation and try to destroy us and the Earth.

Science is trying to hide God. They're catching up and proving that God exists. The archeologists are doing it too. They're searching for the so-called 'God Particle'...they will never find it. Because it is love and they are full of hate.

There is a real Spiritual battle going on...Keep your eyes open...and your sword sharp.

MD is a very considerate debater and I appreciate his demeanor, probably better than mine .

 

[brujaq]

This is all literally aside the point. Science doesn't comment on the supper natural for the same reason hammers don't screw in screws. Different fields with different tool. Science isn't based on testomonials or faith. Religion is. That is a different tool set. Christianity says you need to accept god to know truth. Science doesn't deal with "Truths" but with data. The reason Science and Religion clash is because they are not heading for the same end goal.



That is not what the theory of evolution is. The theory of evolution is a theoretical frame work that known mechanics work in populations that track the changes in organisms over generations.

Organism aren't half formed because there isn't a specific end goal, but instead through generations newer traits emerge and spread through populations through selection pressures and after several generations the organism's lineage shows how the alleles are expressed. An example is fur pattern changes, lengthening of limbs, eye color, bone or skull shape, changing the basic function of a hormone producer, etc. That is all evolution is, Genetics and taxonomy come together and tracks these physical and genetic changes through lineages and have formed groupings and family lines that show how all organisms are related and taken fossils and tracked them to their origins. That is it. That is all evolution is. It explains why Birds are technically dinosaurs and how humans diverged from other hominid species. That is it.

Actually it is a theory that is ridiculous . And there are already dinosaurs that fly .

 

[Milk-Drops]

Same story, I'd love to humble myself and ask your forgiveness

It's all good.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Actually it is a theory that is ridiculous . And there are already dinosaurs that fly .

There are multiple lineages of flying dinosaurs. Birds today decended from a specific lineage of feathered dinos.

 

[Milk-Drops]

You're saying DNA information is not confined to the specific cell ?
Mutations may happen but it would be like wearing the lamb off the card and non beneficial and disadvantaged, right ?

Depending. Most mutations are nuetral, but a one can be detrimental or advantageos. For example, the man on the car could be slightly bigger or larger, or possibly 2 lambs.

 

[brujaq]

There are multiple lineages of flying dinosaurs. Birds today decended from a specific lineage of feathered dinos.

Show me

 

[brujaq]

Depending. Most mutations are nuetral, but a one can be detrimental or advantageos. For example, the man on the car could be slightly bigger or larger, or possibly 2 lambs.

Show me, Dawkins couldn't

 

[Milk-Drops]

Show me, Dawkins couldn't

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/05/2/l_052_05.html

 

[Milk-Drops]

Show me

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_06

 

[brujaq]

I'm at work right now. Are you wanting the allele string?

No don't put yourself out , we'll get around to it eventually

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_06

MD those are just coloring book illustrations and suppositions imo . no offence Bro .

 

[Milk-Drops]

No don't put yourself out , we'll get around to it eventually


MD those are just coloring book illustrations and suppositions imo . no offence Bro .

Then I see no point in continuing further if you are just going to insult any evidence shown to you.