All Israel Saved

[RBDERRICK]

This is fulfilled to day in the body of Christ, where all them that Christ knows are His, and are the saved Israel of God.

It will also be fulfilled for all the Hebrews and Jews by blood, who will be among those judged by works to be sheep of the nations, that will be saved and enter into the promised land of the King of nations.

And it will be fulfilled in the resurrection of the dead, when all saints of God will be dwelling with God on the new earth, after the wicked have been expelled from God forever.

What the prophets enquired and searched for in the promises of God, was a day when all naming the name of Christ are saints indeed, without hypocrites nor persecutors of their own people numbered among them.

 

[user.]

It will also be fulfilled for all the Hebrews and Jews by blood, who will be among those judged by works to be sheep of the nations, that will be saved and enter into the promised land of the King of nations.

That sounds a little misleading. Do you think that all ethnic Jews will be saved just because they are ethnic Jews? That is wrong. Only the Jews who have believed in Jesus are saved. It is not by works but by faith alone that all people are saved. Those Jews who did not die as Christians will go to eternal hell.

What do you mean by "promised land"? The land of Israel here in this world? Then you are also wrong here. The promised land is heaven. Jesus Christ will destroy the whole world, including the worldly land of Israel. Every centimeter here in this world will be destroyed. The Bible testifies to this several times.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Jesus spoke of how the Jews in the land of Israel would be cast out of the kingdom of heaven because of their disbelief in him.Ive read in several different books by different authors in scrpture how they are kicked out of the promised land (Millinial kingdom.)



Mathew 8
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


It's not going to be a good day for those who have rejected Christ on that day.

 

[RBDERRICK]

That sounds a little misleading. Do you think that all ethnic Jews will be saved just because they are ethnic Jews?

They will receive the land promised to Abraham, because God promised it to Abraham and his natural seed.

That is wrong. Only the Jews who have believed in Jesus are saved. It is not by works but by faith alone that all people are saved.

It will also be fulfilled for all the Hebrews and Jews by blood, who will be among those judged by works to be sheep of the nations, that will be saved and enter into the promised land of the King of nations.

Those Jews who did not die as Christians will go to eternal hell.

True. The only promised eternal hope any soul ever has is to be written in the Lamb's book of life.

What do you mean by "promised land"? The land of Israel here in this world?

The land Abraham walked on himself personally, which he has yet to receive, and the land in Ezekiel 45- promised to His natural seed during the Lord's reign over all nations on earth.

Then you are also wrong here. The promised land is heaven.

The land promised to Abraham that he walked on is still earth. As well as the land promised to his natural seed in Ezek 45-.

Spiritualizing or symbolizing away things God promises in His words, does away with the solid truth of His doctrine, prophecy, and promise.

There will also be promised land for all the saved on the new earth, where New Jerusalem descends for God and the Lamb to dwell among men.

Jesus Christ will destroy the whole world, including the worldly land of Israel. Every centimeter here in this world will be destroyed. The Bible testifies to this several times.

True. At the end of His reign here on earth and the GWT judgment of all the rest of the dead that died on this earth.

 

[Scripture Says]

The whole purpose of the word is:

You must believe on His name to be saved....Period!

It was made through Him
It was made by Him

But most importantly
It was made FOR.... HIM

Its all about Jesus

 

[Scripture Says]

They will receive the land promised to Abraham, because God promised it to Abraham and his natural seed.



Scripture Says: you simply deny Scripture that tells you plainly theres only One way and thats Jesus

No man no jew comes to the father But by Me (jesus) there're a packaged deal.....

 

[Scripture Says]

1john 2:23. If you deny the son you cant have the Father.... so jews who do not believe on Jesus name are Godless no matter how they feel about God or Abraham....

 

[RBDERRICK]

The whole purpose of the word is:

You must believe on His name to be saved....Period!

It was made through Him
It was made by Him

But most importantly
It was made FOR.... HIM

Its all about Jesus

True.

The Spirit of Christ also prophecies many things that He wants us to know. Especially His revelation shown to us, that we are blessed by reading and keeping.

The whole purpose of the word written to us, is to know all truth of the things of God. It begins with Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

But that truth was not made known for thousands of years of believers enquiring and diligently searching His truth.

Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Those who don't care about prophecy of Christ, are are not mature disciples of Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism, 1 Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldean) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.

The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.​

 

[Anaphora]

Romans chapter 11 to document the jews during millennium will be saved. Right now the Jews are grafted out of the olive tree. Israel and gentiles are grafted in. Jews were grafted out for disbelief. Romans chapter 11 says the jews will be saved during millennium. Revelation chapter 20 is about the millennium. Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48 is about the millennium.

 

[RBDERRICK]

They will receive the land promised to Abraham, because God promised it to Abraham and his natural seed.



Scripture Says: you simply deny Scripture that tells you plainly theres only One way and thats Jesus

No man no jew comes to the father But by Me (jesus) there're a packaged deal.....

Ok, this is the second time you've preached the gospel of Jesus, when we're talking about the promise of God to give Abraham the land he walked on.

If it will make you feel better, Abraham will be a resurrected saint when given the land promised to Him by God.

And the Hebrew priests and princes attending the King will also be saved inwardly by Christ's circumcision, as well as outwardly in the flesh.

Now, if you would like to address the prophecies of old to Abraham and his natural offspring, then great. Otherwise, you can continue to preach the gospel of the cross. Can't do too much of that.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people,​

True. Natural Israel with outward circumcision did. Their circumcision became uncircumcision to God by unbelief. (Rom 2:25)

(God did save a faithful remnant),​

True. The first disciples and church of Christ was all Jews. There are still many natural Jews today in the churches of God.

And all members of His body are now His Jews by circumcision of the Spirit. (Rom 2:28)

All natural Hebrews and Jews still alive after His return, will have chance to be saved and continue with all nations under the rule of the King.

That's when not only all natural Israel will be saved, but all nations on earth to begin His rule: all nations at the outset will be Israel of God ruled by the King.

as they fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism,​

True. The Jews religion today referred to by Paul, ceased to be the religion of the God of Israel, when they had Him crucified.

The Jews religion of unbelieving Jews today is another false religion of men on earth, next to Islam, Buddhism, etc...

The same can be said for Christian religion of them that name Christ and yet still walk after the flesh and not after the Spirit.

1 Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any​

True again. The 3rd temple commanded to be built by God on earth, will be the Lord's own temple and house for a thousand years. He will enter into and sit in it with His glory. (Ezek 43) His glory upon the temple of Solomon was a foreshadowing of His glory on earth in His millennial temple.

If anyone has a temple made with hands before His return, it is an abomination to God, especially if standing in Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel.

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldean) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.

The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.​

True.

Especially those making war with the Lamb at His return. Including all the goats during His judgment of inherited nations after the war.

Only newly born again saints will enter into His thousand year kingdom of heaven on earth.

They won't all remain so, as is the case today. There will be plenty of them living outwardly under the King, to avoid punishment of the rod of iron, but their hearts will be far from Him.

As it was in the OT and in the New, so it shall be in His Millennium.

Only faith from a pure heart pleases God, whether seeing Him or not.

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.

For we walk by faith, not by sight.

 

[for_his_glory]

True. Natural Israel with outward circumcision did. Their circumcision became uncircumcision to God by unbelief. (Rom 2:25)


True. The first disciples and church of Christ was all Jews. There are still many natural Jews today in the churches of God.

And all members of His body are now His Jews by circumcision of the Spirit. (Rom 2:28)

All natural Hebrews and Jews still alive after His return, will have chance to be saved and continue with all nations under the rule of the King.

That's when not only all natural Israel will be saved, but all nations on earth to begin His rule: all nations at the outset will be Israel of God ruled by the King.


True. The Jews religion today referred to by Paul, ceased to be the religion of the God of Israel, when they had Him crucified.

The Jews religion of unbelieving Jews today is another false religion of men on earth, next to Islam, Buddhism, etc...

The same can be said for Christian religion of them that name Christ and yet still walk after the flesh and not after the Spirit.


True again. The 3rd temple commanded to be built by God on earth, will be the Lord's own temple and house for a thousand years. He will enter into and sit in it with His glory. (Ezek 43) His glory upon the temple of Solomon was a foreshadowing of His glory on earth in His millennial temple.

If anyone has a temple made with hands before His return, it is an abomination to God, especially if standing in Jerusalem in the name of the God of Israel.


True.

Especially those making war with the Lamb at His return. Including all the goats during His judgment of inherited nations after the war.

Only newly born again saints will enter into His thousand year kingdom of heaven on earth.

They won't all remain so, as is the case today. There will be plenty of them living outwardly under the King, to avoid punishment of the rod of iron, but their hearts will be far from Him.

As it was in the OT and in the New, so it shall be in His Millennium.

Only faith from a pure heart pleases God, whether seeing Him or not.

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory.

For we walk by faith, not by sight.

The only thing is, is when Christ returns on the last day there are no second chances as He destroys His enemies by the brightness of His coming and the words He speaks of their damnation as His second coming is in final judgement on all that have rejected Him. 2Thessalonians 2:8; John 5:28-29, Rev 7:1-17; Rev 19:11-21.

I don't believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but that is another topic.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Romans chapter 11 to document the jews during millennium will be saved. Right now the Jews are grafted out of the olive tree. Israel and gentiles are grafted in.

It's a good distinction to make now between unbelieving Jews and Israel of God.

However, I wouldn't distinguish between Israelites and Gentiles in the body of Christ.

No one in Christ is a Gentile nor a Jew, but only Israel.

Jews were grafted out for disbelief. Romans chapter 11 says the jews will be saved during millennium.

True, as will all nations entering into His kingdom reign on earth.

Revelation chapter 20 is about the millennium. Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48 is about the millennium.

Absolutely true, and none of the prophecies of what God says He will bring to pass, shall ever fail to come to pass, else God is a liar and is a false prophet of false prophecies.

When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

 

[RBDERRICK]

The only thing is, is when Christ returns on the last day there are no second chances

And which babes and small children on earth have yet their first chance?

Even Gog and Magog after the Lord's Millennium, will not have babes and children travelling to make war against the camp of saints.

People who prophecy the Lord slaying all flesh on earth, act like there is nothing but grown children and adults on earth, willingly receiving the mark of the beast and making war with the Lamb and His saints.

The Lord has indeed had all men, women, children, and babes, even cattle killed by righteous warfare,a nd if He were to do so at His return, He was be justified in it. But that is not the prophecy of His return.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Unless clearly shown otherwise by doctrine or prophecy, God the Father never sends His Son to condemn all the world and save no flesh.

Prophecy plainly says the Lord will slay all those making war against Him around Judea without mercy, and then execute all goats that would not lift a finger to help their fellow man in time of great distress.

 

[RBDERRICK]

as He destroys His enemies by the brightness of His coming and the words He speaks of their damnation as His second coming is in final judgement on all that have rejected Him.

2Thessalonians 2:8;

The context is for all that trouble the church.

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you.

Not everyone, especially not babes and little children trouble nor even think to persecute Christians.

So it will be at the Lord's return. He will smite the persecutors gathering for war against Him and His saints, and then He will rule them left of the nations. He will first smite with the sword of His mouth, and then judge left alive to be sheep or goats.

Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with equity.

This prophecy has yet to come to pass. Slaying all flesh by common condemnation is not judging anyone with equity.

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

This is prophecy of Isaiah confirming the same of Paul in and John in Rev 19, and brings them both together. The Lord will first smite the wicked of the nations gathered for war with the sword and spirit of His mouth, and then also judge and reprove the nations as sheep or goats.

O let the nations be glad and sing, for thou shalt judge the people righteously, and govern the nations upon earth. Selah.

ALl the nations will rejoice at the righteousness judgement and good rule of the Lord on earth. This has not happened yet.

All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

All nations will also worship Him as Lord and Governor over all nations. This has not happened yet. It will at His return after the war and judgment of nations.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

This is at the end of the Lord's reign on earth, which begins with the first resurrection of the dead, which is only the saints of old and new.

The first resurrection comes first, before the rest of the dead rise to be judged.

Making them the same rejects plain words of prophecy, so that the first is not really first of another.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

He will smite first, and then He will rule them. To rule them, there must be them left alive after the smiting.

Ruling them is not by destroying them all. That is slaying them. It's false prophecy to say He should smite nations; and He shall destroy them with a rod of iron.

 

[RBDERRICK]

I don't believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but that is another topic.

No, it's exactly the same topic of any prophecy of Scripture. Not taking certain sure prophecy literally is how prophecy is made more confusing. Once that is being done in one place, then there's nothing sure about anywhere else.

Jesus prophecies His rule on earth will be for a thousand years, and is called the thousand years. He does so 6 times in 6 consecutive verses of Scripture.

Anyone not believing that is just not believing His words. Not taking God's plain words seriously, is the first device of the devil in the garden of God.

The serpent concluded his take on God's words with, Ye shall not surely die. Ye shall not literally die.

The devil told Eve not to take God at His word. It was the first time God's sure words were made symbolic, or allegorical, or only a figure of speech.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

We do well to take heed to God's prophecy as sure and literal. Jesus says the same of His Revelation at the beginning:

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Keeping the things written therein, begins with keeping those things as sure and true, and not turning anything real into something more 'spiritual' or 'symbolic' than what they plainly mean.

6 times in 6 verses a thousand years and the thousand years is repeated, and yet that is not to be taken seriously as a sure thousand years? Sounds like that old serpent would say That is not surely a thousand years...

Once we begin to make God's plain words of prophecy not so sure, by changing their meaning into something else less real, then we turn the Bible into nothing but another book of fables with some good principles, like that of Aesop.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

That includes the Lord's first and second coming, as well as His thousand year rule over all nations on earth.

 

[for_his_glory]

No, it's exactly the same topic of any prophecy of Scripture. Not taking certain sure prophecy literally is how prophecy is made more confusing. Once that is being done in one place, then there's nothing sure about anywhere else.

Jesus prophecies His rule on earth will be for a thousand years, and is called the thousand years. He does so 6 times in 6 consecutive verses of Scripture.

Anyone not believing that is just not believing His words. Not taking God's plain words seriously, is the first device of the devil in the garden of God.

The serpent concluded his take on God's words with, Ye shall not surely die. Ye shall not literally die.

The devil told Eve not to take God at His word. It was the first time God's sure words were made symbolic, or allegorical, or only a figure of speech.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.

We do well to take heed to God's prophecy as sure and literal. Jesus says the same of His Revelation at the beginning:

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Keeping the things written therein, begins with keeping those things as sure and true, and not turning anything real into something more 'spiritual' or 'symbolic' than what they plainly mean.

6 times in 6 verses a thousand years and the thousand years is repeated, and yet that is not to be taken seriously as a sure thousand years? Sounds like that old serpent would say That is not surely a thousand years...

Once we begin to make God's plain words of prophecy not so sure, by changing their meaning into something else less real, then we turn the Bible into nothing but another book of fables with some good principles, like that of Aesop.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

That includes the Lord's first and second coming, as well as His thousand year rule over all nations on earth.

OK, here is my understanding of a 1000 years.

Revelation 20:1-8 is the only passage in the entire Bible that the premillennialists have as the basis for the 1000 year reign. Rev 20:4 doesn't speak about a 1000 year reign of Christ it says by the vision John received "and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." It's not Christ that reigns 1000 years, but those who were killed for God's sake that reign with Christ 1000 years as 1000 being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

Those who reign with Christ are those souls that had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus. In Revelations 6:9-11, are the souls of martyrs who had been slain for the word of God under an altar crying for vengeance. In Rev 20:4 the martyrs are on thrones. The difference between these scriptures is God's judgment has already come to those certain martyrs. The victory came in the spiritual realm of God, not the physical, and God assured their victory.

John was shown in a vision those souls that already had the victory over death as being in Christ. When we who are of Christ die before His return God has already passed judgement on us and we have the victory in Christ over that of the second death, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57. Those who are not of Christ will be judged and cast into the lake of fire. There is only one resurrection, but two judgements, John 5:28, 29. Those in Christ are raised first as those still alive at His coming will be gathered and caught up together to meet Christ in the air to be with Christ for eternity, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. The rest are then raised for their judgement as rejecting Christ and there forever have their place in the lake of fire. Rev 20:4 says nothing about Jesus coming to this earth and establishing a worldly kingdom at Jerusalem.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(notice as is in being figurative and not literal.)

 

[RBDERRICK]

OK, here is my understanding of a 1000 years.

Revelation 20:1-8 is the only passage in the entire Bible that the premillennialists have as the basis for the 1000 year reign. Rev 20:4 doesn't speak about a 1000 year reign of Christ it says by the vision John received "and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." It's not Christ that reigns 1000 years, but those who were killed for God's sake that reign with Christ 1000 years as 1000 being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Symbolism and figurative speech in Scripture is obvious. Rev 20 does not say we reign as a thousand years, but a thousand years and for the thousand years.

The serpent makes God's words unsure, when He says them in a sure way.

Those who reign with Christ are those souls that had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus.

In Revelations 6:9-11, are the souls of martyrs who had been slain for the word of God under an altar crying for vengeance.

The souls of the dead in Christ are not reigning with Him in heaven and earth. If they were, they wouldn't be crying to the Lord for vengeance, but be exacting it themselves on earth.

The resurrected saints will reign with Him on earth for a thousand years and on the new earth forever.

In Rev 20:4 the martyrs are on thrones.

It's true Rev 20 does not say where those thrones are, while the resurrected saints reign over the nations with the Lord.

That answer is found in Rev 5:

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

It is not 'as' a thousand years, nor is it 'as' on earth.

The victory came in the spiritual realm of God, not the physical,

Our victory is both spiritual and physical.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are to overcome as He overcame on earth. (Rev 3:21)

There is no such thing in Scripture as a spirit-only resurrection, ruling, nor victory.

and God assured their victory.

If we continue doing His will.

If we ensure will shall not fall by adding virtue, godliness, and charity to our faith.

John was shown in a vision those souls that already had the victory over death as being in Christ. When we who are of Christ die before His return God has already passed judgement on us and we have the victory in Christ over that of the second death, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57.

True. For the overcoming saints, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

After their bodily resurrection in His likeness, they shall reign and rule with Him on earth with rods of iron.

Those who are not of Christ will be judged and cast into the lake of fire.

True. After the expiring of His thousand years ruling on earth with His resurrected saints.

There is only one resurrection,

You say one, God says first.

There is no one resurrection of all people at one time. Jesus is risen.

but two judgements, John 5:28, 29.

True. At the judgement seat of Christ in the first resurrection, and then at the great white throne in the resurrection of the rest of the dead.

At that time, all the wicked of history are cast into the lake of fire, and those saved during his thousand year reign will also be found written in the Lamb's book of life as at the first resurrection.

Those in Christ are raised first as those still alive at His coming will be gathered and caught up together to meet Christ in the air to be with Christ for eternity, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

True. In the first resurrection of the saints, the dead will rise first.

This also proves the first resurrection is not that of Dan 12 and John 5. Because not all are resurrected from graves at that time.

Jesus is already resurrected, and at the first resurrection of the dead saints, there will be come alive and remaining on earth and changed.

The rest are then raised for their judgement as rejecting Christ and there forever have their place in the lake of fire. Rev 20:4

True. After the expiration of His thousand year rule on earth with His saints.

says nothing about Jesus coming to this earth and establishing a worldly kingdom at Jerusalem.

It's not a worldly kingdom as men rule today, but His heavenly kingdom on earth.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord on this earth.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(notice as is in being figurative and not literal.)

Notice a and the thousand years are not as a thousand years.

The prophecy of one resurrection of all people at the same time is false. It's only taught to try and support the false doctrine of some spirit-only resurrection and rule on earth today, which is just as false as the faith-alone gospel.

 

[for_his_glory]

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Symbolism and figurative speech in Scripture is obvious. Rev 20 does not say we reign as a thousand years, but a thousand years and for the thousand years.

The serpent makes God's words unsure, when He says them in a sure way.






The souls of the dead in Christ are not reigning with Him in heaven and earth. If they were, they wouldn't be crying to the Lord for vengeance, but be exacting it themselves on earth.

The resurrected saints will reign with Him on earth for a thousand years and on the new earth forever.



It's true Rev 20 does not say where those thrones are, while the resurrected saints reign over the nations with the Lord.

That answer is found in Rev 5:

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

It is not 'as' a thousand years, nor is it 'as' on earth.



Our victory is both spiritual and physical.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are to overcome as He overcame on earth. (Rev 3:21)

There is no such thing in Scripture as a spirit-only resurrection, ruling, nor victory.



If we continue doing His will.

If we ensure will shall not fall by adding virtue, godliness, and charity to our faith.


True. For the overcoming saints, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

After their bodily resurrection in His likeness, they shall reign and rule with Him on earth with rods of iron.



True. After the expiring of His thousand years ruling on earth with His resurrected saints.


You say one, God says first.

There is no one resurrection of all people at one time. Jesus is risen.



True. At the judgement seat of Christ in the first resurrection, and then at the great white throne in the resurrection of the rest of the dead.

At that time, all the wicked of history are cast into the lake of fire, and those saved during his thousand year reign will also be found written in the Lamb's book of life as at the first resurrection.



True. In the first resurrection of the saints, the dead will rise first.

This also proves the first resurrection is not that of Dan 12 and John 5. Because not all are resurrected from graves at that time.

Jesus is already resurrected, and at the first resurrection of the dead saints, there will be come alive and remaining on earth and changed.



True. After the expiration of His thousand year rule on earth with His saints.


It's not a worldly kingdom as men rule today, but His heavenly kingdom on earth.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this world will become the kingdoms of our Lord on this earth.






Notice a and the thousand years are not as a thousand years.

The prophecy of one resurrection of all people at the same time is false. It's only taught to try and support the false doctrine of some spirit-only resurrection and rule on earth today, which is just as false as the faith-alone gospel.

We both have our own understandings and will just have to work them out for ourselves and see how it all plays out in the end. The important thing is to be ready now for His return, nobody knows. Keep your candle burning.