All knowing God

[Igorstash]

Just wonder. I've been thinking about it for a long time. But I always answer myself with an answer like "That's how God decided, and that's it, so who am I to ask such questions."
If god knows everything, why he even created us? I mean He knew that the devil would tempt Eve and that Eve would tempt man.
He knew all this would happen from the beginning. It is written that God saw that people were doing bad things and he was sad because of that. But why he was sad? Didn't he know all this would happen? I can't understand. Why create this world if eventually he destroyed everyone in a flood except noah? God knew that humanity would betray him and disobey him. He knew that sin would rule the world. So what is this whole process for? just why? Why all this suffering in the first place? Regardless of free choice. God knows what we will going to choose. anyway, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this whole creation thing. After all, not everyone is chosen by God. But what does it means that not everyone chosen? A human was born into this world to end up burning in hell forever just because God didn't choose him? This is sad. My sister, for example, doesn't believe in Yeshua. She believes in God but not in Yeshua. And no matter how much I tried to talk to her, it just doesn't help. She refuses to accept Yeshua. After all, if God wanted, he would open her heart . There is complete unfairness here and it is sad and painful. Ultimately God decides who will receive the gospel and who will not. I would appreciate it if someone could try to explain it to me please.

 

[Free]

It's like yiur not even reading what I said.

That’s because he wasn’t addressing your post. Now, please, stop addressing anyone who is not the OP.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

That’s because he wasn’t addressing your post. Now, please, stop addressing anyone who is not the OP.

Sorry about that.

 

[Igorstash]

You're looking through the lens of mortal man and trying to be a god. Trust God instead of trying to 2nd guess Him and do as Jesus instructed.

“Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble."
Matthew 6:25-34 NKJV

How did you come to the conclusion that I'm trying to be God? It's ridiculous. It looks like you didn't even read what I wrote. I have been a believer since I was 13. None of these promises will be fulfilled in my lifetime. Just nothing. you don't know me at all You don't know what I've been through in life and what I've been through in my relationship with God. Do you think I did not seek his kingdom? I would get up at 3 in the morning just to be with him for a few hours. You don't know what I've been through. I searched for him with all my heart. If you don't have answers to my questions, it's better not to write anything at all. What do you think I don't know the scriptures? It seems that these promises are simply written and that's it. without any real existence. I tried to believe, I tried to be strong and it didn't help anything. All I'm experiencing right now is complete frustration. Too bad you don't understand that.

 

[WIP]

How did you come to the conclusion that I'm trying to be God? It's ridiculous. It looks like you didn't even read what I wrote. I have been a believer since I was 13. None of these promises will be fulfilled in my lifetime. Just nothing. you don't know me at all You don't know what I've been through in life and what I've been through in my relationship with God. Do you think I did not seek his kingdom? I would get up at 3 in the morning just to be with him for a few hours. You don't know what I've been through. I searched for him with all my heart. If you don't have answers to my questions, it's better not to write anything at all. What do you think I don't know the scriptures? It seems that these promises are simply written and that's it. without any real existence. I tried to believe, I tried to be strong and it didn't help anything. All I'm experiencing right now is complete frustration. Too bad you don't understand that.

The way I see it, you're bringing God down to your level and putting God in your box rather than trusting Him. You expect Him to explain Himself to you and doing exactly what I said in my very first reply to you when I wrote how the first question I ask myself when I begin to think like this is, "Who am I to question God?"

 

[WIP]

All I'm experiencing right now is complete frustration. Too bad you don't understand that.

I do understand. As I said, "When I begin to think like this,..."

 

[Dromedar007]

I believe, we all see this from a human point of view. It all started from the moment when Satan became proud - this was the moment all was put in question, including the authority of god. The real thing was not on earth (there is one verse that states that Jesus was already foreseen to go to earth before the world was created), but in heaven. Why did 1/3 of the angels rebel against God? Why is Jesus called the "Word of God"? Not even to talk about the Angels who left heaven to have intercourse with women. So, as Paul said - "we are just a spectacle". Yes, we have free will, so have angels. But what happened was not foreseen from the very, very beginning - but only from the moment when injustice was found in Satan. Ever since God did speak or interact with no-one, except through Jesus, his/the word. So each one of us following Christ is an answer in this question - we are on his side and proof it.

 

[Igorstash]

I believe, we all see this from a human point of view. It all started from the moment when Satan became proud - this was the moment all was put in question, including the authority of god. The real thing was not on earth (there is one verse that states that Jesus was already foreseen to go to earth before the world was created), but in heaven. Why did 1/3 of the angels rebel against God? Why is Jesus called the "Word of God"? Not even to talk about the Angels who left heaven to have intercourse with women. So, as Paul said - "we are just a spectacle". Yes, we have free will, so have angels. But what happened was not foreseen from the very, very beginning - but only from the moment when injustice was found in Satan. Ever since God did speak or interact with no-one, except through Jesus, his/the word. So each one of us following Christ is an answer in this question - we are on his side and proof it.

God knew from the beginning that the devil would betray him.. God knew that there would be sin and a lot of suffering in the world. God knew and knows everything. Why exactly was he sad when he saw that the world was bad? He saw it would happen. He knew it would happen. He planned this flood even before He created the world. What is the sense in creating humans, seeing them in complete disobedience and then killing them? What is the point of all this suffering? God knew exactly what would happen!!! He just knew it! So why? what for????

 

[Igorstash]

The way I see it, you're bringing God down to your level and putting God in your box rather than trusting Him. You expect Him to explain Himself to you and doing exactly what I said in my very first reply to you when I wrote how the first question I ask myself when I begin to think like this is, "Who am I to question God?"

You don't understand anything. As i said. You doesn't even know me. Don't jump to false conclusions.

 

[Dromedar007]

OK - God was sad because he made humans. This is written. But why? Was he sad, because suddenly Angels gave up their place in heaven and had intercourse with human females? Was he sad, because the influence of the devil made people worse than they should be? If you think about it, there are 100 ways to see only this small sentence.

But please take into consideration that most of the old testament was written as an example for us today. Don't you think God is sad today that he made us? And that the same thing will happen as in Noah's days? This is why the NT was written.

Good thing is - there is NOTHING God could not repair. All is possible for him, really everything. Or do you think, that someone who lived in China in these times and never heard of God, but drowned in the flood would not have a chance?

I would stop thinking too much, honestly. It's the simplicity of Christianity which makes it so good.

 

[Igorstash]

OK - God was sad because he made humans. This is written. But why? Was he sad, because suddenly Angels gave up their place in heaven and had intercourse with human females? Was he sad, because the influence of the devil made people worse than they should be? If you think about it, there are 100 ways to see only this small sentence.

But please take into consideration that most of the old testament was written as an example for us today. Don't you think God is sad today that he made us? And that the same thing will happen as in Noah's days? This is why the NT was written.

Good thing is - there is NOTHING God could not repair. All is possible for him, really everything. Or do you think, that someone who lived in China in these times and never heard of God, but drowned in the flood would not have a chance?

I would stop thinking too much, honestly. It's the simplicity of Christianity which makes it so good.

It makes me sad because in the end we don't really have free will. Yeshua said that no one comes to me unless the Father makes him come to me. So you can't just decide to believe just because you choose to. God makes you believe and opens your heart or whatever... Because you are chosen. it's simple. Whoever God did not choose, no matter how much you preach to him, no matter how much you pray for him, it simply will not help because that person was not chosen. We can't really know who is chosen and who is not. That is why we continue to pray and hope. But in the end he will decide who is chosen and who is not. To whom to open the heart and to whom to harden the heart.

 

[Tenchi]

Just wonder. I've been thinking about it for a long time. But I always answer myself with an answer like "That's how God decided, and that's it, so who am I to ask such questions."

God knowing what will happen is not the same as God determining that it should happen. You freely choose much of what occurs in your life and God simply knows what you've chosen because He's omniscient. But His knowing what you will choose is not God determining what you choose. It's just that, whatever you might freely choose to do, God knows what your choice is.

He knew all this would happen from the beginning. It is written that God saw that people were doing bad things and he was sad because of that. But why he was sad? Didn't he know all this would happen? I can't understand.

God isn't "sad" in the way we are. These sorts of descriptions of God can only be approximations of what God feels. These descriptions of God are drawn from our human frame of reference so that we have some idea, some understanding, of what God does, and feels, and thinks. If the Bible spoke of God in exactly the terms properly descriptive of Him, however, we'd have no idea what the Bible was talking about because God is just too far outside of our humanness for us to comprehend Him as He actually is.

Imagine trying to explain to an ant what it is to be you. How could you make sensible to an ant with its severely limited intellect and experience what it is to, say, fly in an airplane, or consider moral questions, or enjoy music? The ant would be unable to comprehend what you're talking about, both because it doesn't have anything in its own experience that correlates and because it just doesn't have the intellectual capacity to grasp what you're saying. It can't even understand the language you're using, or take in the idea of language since it has none of its own.

To God, we're a great deal more inferior than an ant is to us. In fact, the distance between God and us is so great that there's nothing we could offer in description of the difference that would actually truly explain it. But, because God is God, He's able to do what we couldn't with an ant and make it possible for us to understand enough about Him to relate with Him. It's a mistake, though, to read in the Bible that God was angry, or jealous, or loving, or patient, and imagine that He's just like we are in these things.

Why create this world if eventually he destroyed everyone in a flood except noah?

Can't God do as He likes with what He's made?

Does a painter have to justify himself to his painting, explaining to it why he used the colors, and brushstrokes, and subject that he did? That would be a very peculiar thing to witness! I'd think the artist was a bit off his nut, actually, if I saw him explaining himself to his painting. If this is true for a mere human artist and his painting, it's far, far, far more true for God and what He has created. God doesn't have to answer to us for what He does and we couldn't understand Him even if He did. I don't want a God I can fully comprehend, to be honest. If I could totally understand Him, He wouldn't be God, in my view.

God knew that humanity would betray him and disobey him. He knew that sin would rule the world. So what is this whole process for? just why?

Why do married couples have children? They know the children will poop their diapers, and barf on them, and cry, and injure themselves, and who knows what else. Some children may even be so injured, or become so sick, that they die! Why would any parent knowing these things ever have any children? Answer this question and you'll have a glimmer of why God created us and our world.

After all, not everyone is chosen by God. But what does it means that not everyone chosen?

God predestines for all those who are in Christ to be His own. We didn't decide that this should be so; it was God's unilateral decision to do this. But any and all who trust in Christ as their Savior and Lord are pre-determined by God to become His own and enjoy all the good things that He gives to them in Jesus. Anyone can come to be in Christ and enjoy what God has predestined for those who are in him; for "God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)

A human was born into this world to end up burning in hell forever just because God didn't choose him? This is sad.

Yes, it is sad. But, fortunately, it's also not true.

1 Timothy 2:2-4
2 ...lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.
3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:15-17
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

My sister, for example, doesn't believe in Yeshua. She believes in God but not in Yeshua. And no matter how much I tried to talk to her, it just doesn't help. She refuses to accept Yeshua. After all, if God wanted, he would open her heart .

If we're truly going to love God, He can't make puppets out of us. To love Him, we must be able to freely choose to do so; for love cannot be compelled. But being able to freely choose Him requires that we be free NOT to choose Him. And if we make such a choice, God honors it, as He must if that choice is to be genuinely free.

It is not, then, God's fault that your sister has rejected Jesus; it is entirely her own fault.

 

[Dromedar007]

You refer to john 6:44. I suggest you read all the context - this makes things much clearer. Why do you always search for "negativity"? Whatever the result, being christian makes me a better human being. Is this not worth a lot? In this sick world? And trust me - I have seen it all - from Afghanistan, South Sudan, Sudan, CAR, Chad, Sierra Leone, Burkina Faso, Myanmar... and not for short periods. I mean 6 years in Kabul is not short. It taught me a lot - how Jesus lived, what resistance he had, how stubborn religious people can be.... Take the good things man, not all the questions. Nothing can be explained to 100% as then free will would no longer exist.

 

[Igorstash]

You refer to john 6:44. I suggest you read all the context - this makes things much clearer. Why do you always search for "negativity"? Whatever the result, being christian makes me a better human being. Is this not worth a lot? In this sick world? And trust me - I have seen it all - from Afghanistan, South Sudan, Sudan, CAR, Chad, Sierra Leone, Burkina Faso, Myanmar... and not for short periods. I mean 6 years in Kabul is not short. It taught me a lot - how Jesus lived, what resistance he had, how stubborn religious people can be.... Take the good things man, not all the questions. Nothing can be explained to 100% as then free will would no longer exist.

I'm not looking for the negative. I'm looking for an explanation. In practice God wants everyone to know the truth. But on the other hand there are the chosen ones. It contradicts each other.

 

[Dromedar007]

Well, not if you read Revelation - it speaks of two kinds of people: the chosen ones (as far as I understood it, its 144.000 from all tribes of Israel), while the rest is the great crowd that no man can count. So, everlasting life is open to everybody who searches for it. And it's not difficult. But in one thing I agree - nobody can say today: I am saved or chosen. This judgement will be done by Jesus - in the end.

 

[Igorstash]

Well, not if you read Revelation - it speaks of two kinds of people: the chosen ones (as far as I understood it, its 144.000 from all tribes of Israel), while the rest is the great crowd that no man can count. So, everlasting life is open to everybody who searches for it. And it's not difficult. But in one thing I agree - nobody can say today: I am saved or chosen. This judgement will be done by Jesus - in the end.

Hmm interesting. A very interesting answer regarding the chosen ones. Wow, that's really interesting. OK. You, my friend, opened my eyes to something interesting. Anyway, I think I'm being stupid and dealing with unnecessary nonsense instead of God's grace and love. Iam literally stupid. My frustration brought me to a bad place and I must ask the Father for forgiveness.

 

[Igorstash]

Well, not if you read Revelation - it speaks of two kinds of people: the chosen ones (as far as I understood it, its 144.000 from all tribes of Israel), while the rest is the great crowd that no man can count. So, everlasting life is open to everybody who searches for it. And it's not difficult. But in one thing I agree - nobody can say today: I am saved or chosen. This judgement will be done by Jesus - in the end.

By the way, if I understood correctly, we, the believers, will not be judged at all. We will judge angels and the world:

1 Corinthians 6:

Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels?

 

[Runningman]

Just wonder. I've been thinking about it for a long time. But I always answer myself with an answer like "That's how God decided, and that's it, so who am I to ask such questions."
If god knows everything, why he even created us? I mean He knew that the devil would tempt Eve and that Eve would tempt man.
He knew all this would happen from the beginning. It is written that God saw that people were doing bad things and he was sad because of that. But why he was sad? Didn't he know all this would happen? I can't understand. Why create this world if eventually he destroyed everyone in a flood except noah? God knew that humanity would betray him and disobey him. He knew that sin would rule the world. So what is this whole process for? just why? Why all this suffering in the first place? Regardless of free choice. God knows what we will going to choose. anyway, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this whole creation thing. After all, not everyone is chosen by God. But what does it means that not everyone chosen? A human was born into this world to end up burning in hell forever just because God didn't choose him? This is sad. My sister, for example, doesn't believe in Yeshua. She believes in God but not in Yeshua. And no matter how much I tried to talk to her, it just doesn't help. She refuses to accept Yeshua. After all, if God wanted, he would open her heart . There is complete unfairness here and it is sad and painful. Ultimately God decides who will receive the gospel and who will not. I would appreciate it if someone could try to explain it to me please.

If God knows what everyone will do, desires all to be saved, yet is only choosing specific people, then that certainly raises more questions than answers. So I believe you have asked a lot of valid questions that deserve good answers, but outside of divine revelation about what God is thinking, there may not be a clear answer.

In your scenario, I believe it also raises questions about why God does what He does if He knew in advance the problem. God sacrificed Jesus to appease Himself for the evil He knew people would do? That doesn't make sense. I don't believe God is not confusing or unreasonable.

What makes sense to me is people have free will to make choices and that God is omniscient about all possible outcomes, but not necessarily what they're going to do. I believe this makes sense because God holds people accountable for their choices throughout the Bible. This is also what is apparent in real life. We can each make our own choices so the truth is what is already apparent - we have free will to make our decisions, but God desires we make decisions in a particular way.

I believe this satisfactorily answers all of your questions in a general sense, but please feel free to ask something more specific if you think something should be explained a bit more. Thanks for the good questions.

 

[Dromedar007]

And even if God knows everything in advance - YOU do not know it. Do you know if you might have everlasting life or not? God said: My thoughts are higher than yours, my ways are higher than yours. End of story.

So, the more I follow the bible - I become a better person. I speak like an idiot now - but in this sense - what does it matter? I am a better, loving, law keeping person. I will not steal, not commit fornication, help people in need etc. So - at least I did something good.

What God knows - we will never know nor understand. Do not even try. We can guess (which was done above), but not more. Since Jesus died 370 billion persons died worldwide. How many will inherit everlasting life, how many will go the way to destruction?

Stay awake - this is all. And realize that we ARE in the last days. The world is not the same since 2020. It already started.

 

[Igorstash]

And even if God knows everything in advance - YOU do not know it. Do you know if you might have everlasting life or not? God said: My thoughts are higher than yours, my ways are higher than yours. End of story.

So, the more I follow the bible - I become a better person. I speak like an idiot now - but in this sense - what does it matter? I am a better, loving, law keeping person. I will not steal, not commit fornication, help people in need etc. So - at least I did something good.

What God knows - we will never know nor understand. Do not even try. We can guess (which was done above), but not more. Since Jesus died 370 billion persons died worldwide. How many will inherit everlasting life, how many will go the way to destruction?

Stay awake - this is all. And realize that we ARE in the last days. The world is not the same since 2020. It already started.

The last days were 2000 years ago when Jesus and his disciples proclaimed that the kingdom of God was near. Jesus could also return 300 years from now. The world is constantly changing. Many more things have to happen before Jesus comes. Right now this is just a taste of what is to come. According to the scriptures, there should be peace in the world. But this peace will be a lie. Fake peace of the Antichrist. And like in the days of Noah, people drank and got married and thought everything was fine, only then God destroyed them. And what does it matter if it's the last days? There's no such thing like "rapture" . This is a complete distortion of the scriptures. We will all be in these shocking tribulation days. It is clearly written that there are many believers who will leave Jesus. Many will betray each other. The mother will betray her daughter and the father will betray his son. A brother will betray his sister and the sister will betray her brother. I don't understand where the concept "rapture" come from but it's just wrong. We will ascend to Jesus, to fight the forces of evil only after these tribulation days. The devil should be chained for 1000 years first. And Jesus will reign over the whole world. 2 witnesses need to come. And in short it can take a lot more time than we think. It's just that God has no time. For him 1000 years is like one day and one day is like 1000 years. But for some reason the Christians distort the scriptures and say that there is "rapture"... Moreover, God tells one of the angels in revelation to mark God's servants so that they will not suffer these troubles.

 

[Who Me]

Without you doing anything wrong.

By whose standard? Yours or Gods?

The whole area of predestination, of fore knowledge, of God's choosing or electing, of man's responsibility is confusing.

I start with a Holy, Just and Merciful God and work from there.

You have to work through these issues, but starting with a belief in the innocents of man and of the cruelty of God will only lead you away from him.

After Adam fell God was under no obligation to do anything for Adam or for his descendants.
That God saves anyone is an enormous act of love and grace.