All knowing God

[Igorstash]

Just wonder. I've been thinking about it for a long time. But I always answer myself with an answer like "That's how God decided, and that's it, so who am I to ask such questions."
If god knows everything, why he even created us? I mean He knew that the devil would tempt Eve and that Eve would tempt man.
He knew all this would happen from the beginning. It is written that God saw that people were doing bad things and he was sad because of that. But why he was sad? Didn't he know all this would happen? I can't understand. Why create this world if eventually he destroyed everyone in a flood except noah? God knew that humanity would betray him and disobey him. He knew that sin would rule the world. So what is this whole process for? just why? Why all this suffering in the first place? Regardless of free choice. God knows what we will going to choose. anyway, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this whole creation thing. After all, not everyone is chosen by God. But what does it means that not everyone chosen? A human was born into this world to end up burning in hell forever just because God didn't choose him? This is sad. My sister, for example, doesn't believe in Yeshua. She believes in God but not in Yeshua. And no matter how much I tried to talk to her, it just doesn't help. She refuses to accept Yeshua. After all, if God wanted, he would open her heart . There is complete unfairness here and it is sad and painful. Ultimately God decides who will receive the gospel and who will not. I would appreciate it if someone could try to explain it to me please.

 

[Dromedar007]

Maybe you are right. I just try to live a simple, christian life, be humble, help others, pray and read the bible. That's all I can do. Apart from this I prefer to be poor in the spirit - I gave up on trying to know everything. I am an ex-JW - you might understand. People always think about the end of the world as written in the Bible - and forget that they can die today. Since Jesus death 370 billion people already died - why should it be different for you or me? Nobody knows everything. Its the heart, not wisdom.

Listen to this:

- touching, simple, good.

 

[Who Me]

we don't really have free will. Yeshua said that no one comes to me unless the Father makes him come to me. So you can't just decide to believe just because you choose to

How can a willing slave of the devil chose Jesus?
That is like the parent of those missing Jewish kidnappies voting for Hamas.

No one willingly turns to Jesus.

 

[WIP]

I'm not looking for the negative. I'm looking for an explanation.

Okay, I'll say it another way. Because He's God. That is why.

 

[Dromedar007]

Just wonder. I've been thinking about it for a long time. But I always answer myself with an answer like "That's how God decided, and that's it, so who am I to ask such questions."
If god knows everything, why he even created us? I mean He knew that the devil would tempt Eve and that Eve would tempt man.
He knew all this would happen from the beginning. It is written that God saw that people were doing bad things and he was sad because of that. But why he was sad? Didn't he know all this would happen? I can't understand. Why create this world if eventually he destroyed everyone in a flood except noah? God knew that humanity would betray him and disobey him. He knew that sin would rule the world. So what is this whole process for? just why? Why all this suffering in the first place? Regardless of free choice. God knows what we will going to choose. anyway, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this whole creation thing. After all, not everyone is chosen by God. But what does it means that not everyone chosen? A human was born into this world to end up burning in hell forever just because God didn't choose him? This is sad. My sister, for example, doesn't believe in Yeshua. She believes in God but not in Yeshua. And no matter how much I tried to talk to her, it just doesn't help. She refuses to accept Yeshua. After all, if God wanted, he would open her heart . There is complete unfairness here and it is sad and painful. Ultimately God decides who will receive the gospel and who will not. I would appreciate it if someone could try to explain it to me please.

I am sorry Igorstash - I for my part will not continue in this discussion. It's destructive. On the one side you say you believe in god, on the other side all your posts make him somehow guilty, evil.... Do not go by the brain, but by your heart - this is all I can say. If you think that God should have reacted differently - who are you to tell that? Don't you know that his thoughts are higher than ours? Don't you know that humans are a small part of the whole story. It's a little presumptous for me what you wrote. I distance myself and remain simple.

 

[Igorstash]

Okay, I'll say it another way. Because He's God. That is wh

I am sorry Igorstash - I for my part will not continue in this discussion. It's destructive. On the one side you say you believe in god, on the other side all your posts make him somehow guilty, evil.... Do not go by the brain, but by your heart - this is all I can say. If you think that God should have reacted differently - who are you to tell that? Don't you know that his thoughts are higher than ours? Don't you know that humans are a small part of the whole story. It's a little presumptous for me what you wrote. I distance myself and remain simple.

Do whatever you want No need to apologize for that. I have already asked God for forgiveness and you are just judging me right now. We all have moments of weakness. And that's okay. No need to judge. If you don't like what I ask/write, just don't answer, that's all. Good day sir.

 

[Tenchi]

It makes me sad because in the end we don't really have free will. Yeshua said that no one comes to me unless the Father makes him come to me.

When one extracts a single verse from God's word it always leads to false ideas about what His word means.

John 6:43-45
43 Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves.
44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
45 It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me—

In context, what Jesus meant by "draws" he actually explained: Heard and learned from the Father (vs. 45). There is nothing of the compulsive in God the Father teaching the lost about Jesus Christ, which He does through the sharing of the Gospel, the "power of God unto salvation" (Romans 1:16; Romans 10:14-15). It is as God illuminates the minds and hearts of the lost through the preaching of the Gospel that they are are drawn to Christ. This is, at most, what Jesus meant to say in John 6:44. The idea of God forcing people to trust in Christ as Savior and Lord is not present in what Jesus actually said.

And, too, God would do violence to His own First and Great Commandment (Matthew 22:36-38) were He to compel the lost into relationship with Himself.

o you can't just decide to believe just because you choose to. God makes you believe and opens your heart or whatever... Because you are chosen. it's simple.

Yes, every person who comes to Christ for salvation must be helped by God to such a decision. God must take the initiative, in fact, in drawing people to the Savior; but this doesn't mean He forces people to a saving faith in Jesus. In the end, we must choose Christ, as love requires; God will never make anyone trust in Jesus as Savior and Lord.

We are chosen in Jesus Christ and predestined to all that results from being in him. If you get on a ferry from, say, Seattle to some island in the Pacific three hours distant, you are destined to arrive at the island after a three-hour voyage. All those on the ferry will do so because it was predetermined, long before any of the passengers on the ferry got on it, that the ferry would transport all passengers to the island. Does the predetermined destination of the ferry at the island mean that those who travelled on it were forced to board the ferry and arrive at its destination? No.

Likewise, God has predetermined that all those in Christ will arrive at a particular spiritual destination.

Ephesians 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love...

Here's the predetermined destination of all those "in Christ": holiness and blamelessness before God. He has chosen this destination for all who, by trusting in Jesus as their Savior and Lord, are in him.

5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Here, the divinely-predetermined destination is further described by the apostle Paul: adoption by God as His sons (and daughters). All those in Christ are not only made holy and blameless but also adopted into God's kingdom and family. This is all chosen, or decided, by God as the unalterable consequence for ANYONE who trusts in Christ as their Savior and Lord.

Being in the "ferry," Jesus Christ, will take all in him to a particular "island" of spiritual experience and circumstance. This, God determined before the world even existed. This doesn't mean, though, that God has forced those in Christ to be in him, only that He has chosen what the results of being in Christ will be for those have freely chosen to be "in him."

Whoever God did not choose, no matter how much you preach to him, no matter how much you pray for him, it simply will not help because that person was not chosen.

This isn't actually what God's word teaches. See above. Also: www.soteriology101.com.

 

[WIP]

Do whatever you want No need to apologize for that. I have already asked God for forgiveness and you are just judging me right now. We all have moments of weakness. And that's okay. No need to judge. If you don't like what I ask/write, just don't answer, that's all. Good day sir.

I don't know what makes you think you are being judged. You asked for an answer and we gave you our answer and we tried to be as complete as possible. Apparently, you didn't get the answer you wanted or you have an ulterior motive in mind. In either case, I guess I cannot help you any further so I'll leave it here in the hands of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Fish153]

Do whatever you want No need to apologize for that. I have already asked God for forgiveness and you are just judging me right now. We all have moments of weakness. And that's okay. No need to judge. If you don't like what I ask/write, just don't answer, that's all. Good day sir.

Igor---- On Sunday I was discussing this with another Christian. It seems everyone asks the questions you have asked. For example: Why did God create a devil if he knew he would fall and cause so much destruction? Why did God create man if he knew he would fall? Etc., etc. And I truly do not think there is anything wrong with asking these questions. They are REAL questions. Of course, we know that atheists use these same arguments to refute a belief in God. But we, as Christians can ask them too. I don't think God is angry because we pause and wonder about these things.

I wanted to share something that may very well apply to this subject. Have you ever seen or heard of a situation where a person is "sworn to secrecy" even though they could share an answer to a question you have? Imagine if someone said they would give you a million dollars if you pretended to be crazy for two weeks. BUT---you can't tell anyone why you are acting crazy. You CAN tell them after the two weeks are up and you have the million dollars. But during that time you cannot tell anyone why you are acting crazy or you will lose the million bucks.

Is it possible that God is "sworn to secrecy" about the question you are asking, or in fact, that we are ALL asking? Has God purposefully only revealed a small "part" of what we want to know because He has somehow "sworn" not to reveal it until AFTER TIME IS OVER? What if God, the angels, Satan and the fallen angels, all KNOW something we are NOT ALLOWED to know YET?

Read Revelation 10:1-7. In that part of Revelation (and this is FAR in future) all of a sudden (7) THUNDERS say something and John starts to write it down. But God says "“Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.” (10: 3). God is basically telling John NOT TO SHARE what the thunders said. Because it isn't time for us to know yet. One day we will know what the thunders said (at least I believe we will) but it wasn't time yet for man to hear their message. Their voices must be sealed.

What I am saying (and believe me I believe God can DO anything---because he is God) is that it is very possible that God swore before time started not to reveal the FULL MYSTERY to us. He would like to relieve our frustration and tell us exactly WHY he created the Devil even though he knew he would fall---but he has sworn not to until the TIME IS RIGHT to do so.

So, I believe that when these questions come to mind and frustrate us we must BELIEVE that God had a VERY GOOD REASON for doing what He did----even though He cannot or will not tell us what that reason is. I say "cannot" not because God is unable----but because he has sworn not to reveal this until the very end of time. Paul says "we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face".

So, to finish----there is nothing wrong with the "questions". We would ALL like to know the answers to all of them. But we must accept that we will learn the answers at the END OF TIME. We must believe that God is GOOD and completely KIND, and would never create anything to torture us. At the END OF TIME God will explain the answers and we will fully understand and rejoice for the decisions He made before he created time and space. God listens as we ask these incredible questions, but he refuses to reveal the answers NOW---but He WILL ONE DAY.

Perhaps we will learn what the 7 thunders said also. Who knows?

 

[Igorstash]

I don't know what makes you think you are being judged. You asked for an answer and we gave you our answer and we tried to be as complete as possible. Apparently, you didn't get the answer you wanted or you have an ulterior motive in mind. In either case, I guess I cannot help you any further so I'll leave it here in the hands of the Holy Spirit.

I already received an answer. And as I said, I have already asked God for forgiveness. Someone lock this post please

I already received an answer. And as I said, I asked God for forgiveness for my stupidity! Someone lock or delete this post please

 

[Fish153]

Igor---- On Sunday I was discussing this with another Christian. It seems everyone asks the questions you have asked. For example: Why did God create a devil if he knew he would fall and cause so much destruction? Why did God create man if he knew he would fall? Etc., etc. And I truly do not think there is anything wrong with asking these questions. They are REAL questions. Of course, we know that atheists use these same arguments to refute a belief in God. But we, as Christians can ask them too. I don't think God is angry because we pause and wonder about these things.

I wanted to share something that may very well apply to this subject. Have you ever seen or heard of a situation where a person is "sworn to secrecy" even though they could share an answer to a question you have? Imagine if someone said they would give you a million dollars if you pretended to be crazy for two weeks. BUT---you can't tell anyone why you are acting crazy. You CAN tell them after the two weeks are up and you have the million dollars. But during that time you cannot tell anyone why you are acting crazy or you will lose the million bucks.

Is it possible that God is "sworn to secrecy" about the question you are asking, or in fact, that we are ALL asking? Has God purposefully only revealed a small "part" of what we want to know because He has somehow "sworn" not to reveal it until AFTER TIME IS OVER? What if God, the angels, Satan and the fallen angels, all KNOW something we are NOT ALLOWED to know YET?

Read Revelation 10:1-7. In that part of Revelation (and this is FAR in future) all of a sudden (7) THUNDERS say something and John starts to write it down. But God says "“Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.” (10: 3). God is basically telling John NOT TO SHARE what the thunders said. Because it isn't time for us to know yet. One day we will know what the thunders said (at least I believe we will) but it wasn't time yet for man to hear their message. Their voices must be sealed.

What I am saying (and believe me I believe God can DO anything---because he is God) is that it is very possible that God swore before time started not to reveal the FULL MYSTERY to us. He would like to relieve our frustration and tell us exactly WHY he created the Devil even though he knew he would fall---but he has sworn not to until the TIME IS RIGHT to do so.

So, I believe that when these questions come to mind and frustrate us we must BELIEVE that God had a VERY GOOD REASON for doing what He did----even though He cannot or will not tell us what that reason is. I say "cannot" not because God is unable----but because he has sworn not to reveal this until the very end of time. Paul says "we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face".

So, to finish----there is nothing wrong with the "questions". We would ALL like to know the answers to all of them. But we must accept that we will learn the answers at the END OF TIME. We must believe that God is GOOD and completely KIND, and would never create anything to torture us. At the END OF TIME God will explain the answers and we will fully understand and rejoice for the decisions He made before he created time and space. God listens as we ask these incredible questions, but he refuses to reveal the answers NOW---but He WILL ONE DAY.

Perhaps we will learn what the 7 thunders said also. Who knows?

One other thing I forgot to share. It has to do with those who are "chosen". We always think of predestination or election as God choosing BEFOREHAND who will be saved, etc.

But here is another way to think about it. If you are at a parade you are standing in one place. You see the beginning of the parade pass by you, and then everything that follows until the end of the parade passes by you. You have seen the parade from YOUR vantage point. That is where we are kind of at right now. We are standing at one spot in the parade of time----we can see what's happening now---and others can tell us what has already passed by----but we have no idea what's at the end of time.

But now imagine a man above the parade about (15) stories up in a building. He can see the WHOLE PARADE in ONE VIEW. He has a completely different vantage point. He can see the beginning of the parade all the way to the end.

So did God choose the one's who would come to him as the "elect" BEFORE the parade started? In a sense yes----but He also could ALREADY SEE the full parade of time in front of Him. So, He ALREADY KNEW who would come to him and who would not--he could see the WHOLE PARADE (THE WHOLE SCOPE OF TIME)--so could it be that the "elect" are foreknown by Him because He already knows how time will pass and who will come to him and who will not? He hasn't really "chosen" certain ones to come to him----it's just that he ALREADY KNOWS who will come to him---these are called the "elect". He's already seen the parade and knows how it ends.

So God did not create specific people to be saved, and some to be overlooked and damned. He created TIME (the parade) and sees the end from the beginning---and KNOWS who during that period will accept Him and who will reject Him. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16) This verse applies to time itself. EVERYONE has an opportunity to be saved (WHOSOEVER)---the "elect" are the one's God knows will come to him---because he sees ALL TIME at once.

But---just as my earlier post----in the end it is a MYSTERY---and God will explain all of this in full when time ends.

 

[KV-44-v1]

MYSTERY

I think many people these days lack patience, and instead of just trusting God and His Word, they just give up and disbelieve.
Just be content with certain things being hidden, don't fuss unnecessarily, and do what God wants.

That's why we see the phrase, "patience of a saint". "Saint" is a word that refers to any Born Again Christian.

 

[xymox]

Say there was a king of a country, and he wanted to build something good for the people, but he knew that some bad guys were going to destroy it. If that makes him cancel or change his plans, then the bad guys win.
If he is a wise king, he will make it in such a way that when the bad guys try to destroy it, it ultimately becomes something even better. Then the bad guys get punished and the people benefit all the more.

Adam and Eve were originally like 'robots' programmed to love God. Of course God knew that would get messed up. So God, in His wisdom, didn't cancel or change His plans; He made a way for a better end, a relationship with people who want one with Him, not just programmed robots. The end result is better than the beginning. God isn't 'forcing' people to ask for forgiveness and life, and when they do it is something very cool, and something way better than what Adam and Eve had.

There was a popular poster when I was a kid. Something like...."If you love something, set it free. If it returns to you, then it's yours forever. If it does not, then it never was yours."

 

[Christian Saboteur]

He wants to "Separate the Wheat from the Chaff",God wants us to glorify him,and ask for his forgiveness and divine wisdom and guidance.He is preparing a place for us,HE'S GOD.

 

[Christian Saboteur]

Read about Ezekials Wheel,and what that scripture means.

 

[Davidwb54]

Well I'll try to keep this as brief as possible and stick to the facts from the insights and wisdom of the Holy Spirit and leaving out my own personal opinions.
And with topics such as this it's much easier to simplify things by explaining them through the idea or doctrine of Pre-Existance. Which is basically where ALL souls were with God in what is known as the "first earth age".

This was when we were in spiritual angelic forms and at Satan's rebellion a 3rd followed him and are now held in chains to be judged. Another 3rd pretty much consists of anyone from very bad wicked people to those claiming to be "Christian" or whatever other religion. The last 3rd include God's very Elect but are only make up a small portion, the rest simply being those who were "called" or came to receive Christ as Savior first, however you want to look at it?

Now I guess the real question for me is just how did all those evil people such as serial killers manage to slip through the cracks and not end up with those who followed Lucifer? Well the simple answer would be that most people like that are just so SELF centered that they cannot bring themselves to bow down to anyone. Those such as a Charles Manson for instance, who only see themselves as the end all of end all so to speak.

Now maybe it's true that God could have just wiped out a large majority of that middle 3rd group and put them in chains also. But I really believe He wanted to give everyone a fair chance by being born in the flesh- "of water"- and make up there own mind once and for all, whether to finally worship God through His Sons sacrifice or follow Antichrist when he appears.

Either way I guess another big question would be about why there is so much evil in the world if God only creates things that are perfect and righteous? Well according to Proverbs-16:4 He did in fact create the wicked for that "evil day". The same as He did the Election for the exact opposite reason, or for that same time period as well when they once again stand against Satan as Antichrist.

But I do believe God never set out to create anyone to become wicked but did know which way they would eventually turn in that 1st earth age, but don't want to get too much into personal opinions.

And I do hope this at least somewhat clears up some of the confusion and questions people are having, and I do apologize for not exactly keeping it "brief" but it's very hard to do with a subject like this.

 

[stockwell]

we have free choice. However, our choice, was foreseen by God before hand. He knew what we would choose of our own free will.

Deuteronomy 29:29

Free will is a myth of man it does not exist.

 

[stockwell]

Just wonder. I've been thinking about it for a long time. But I always answer myself with an answer like "That's how God decided, and that's it, so who am I to ask such questions."
If god knows everything, why he even created us? I mean He knew that the devil would tempt Eve and that Eve would tempt man.
He knew all this would happen from the beginning. It is written that God saw that people were doing bad things and he was sad because of that. But why he was sad? Didn't he know all this would happen? I can't understand. Why create this world if eventually he destroyed everyone in a flood except noah? God knew that humanity would betray him and disobey him. He knew that sin would rule the world. So what is this whole process for? just why? Why all this suffering in the first place? Regardless of free choice. God knows what we will going to choose. anyway, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this whole creation thing. After all, not everyone is chosen by God. But what does it means that not everyone chosen? A human was born into this world to end up burning in hell forever just because God didn't choose him? This is sad. My sister, for example, doesn't believe in Yeshua. She believes in God but not in Yeshua. And no matter how much I tried to talk to her, it just doesn't help. She refuses to accept Yeshua. After all, if God wanted, he would open her heart . There is complete unfairness here and it is sad and painful. Ultimately God decides who will receive the gospel and who will not. I would appreciate it if someone could try to explain it to me please.

What is good? How does anyone become GOOD? Looking at any virtue, how did it became a virtue?
Is ‘truthfulness’ a virtue if everyone always was and always will be ‘truthful?’ No, because there is nothing to compare it with. Can ‘patience’ be developed and achieved Quickly and with out distress?
Eg. How does one know what "big" is if he doesn't know what "small" is, and vice-a-versa? How can we say something is rough if we don't have any concept of smooth? Up is only up in relation or contrast to down. Light is contrasted with darkness, etc., etc., etc.

If we are to appreciate "good," it is therefore essential that we have an experience of "EVIL."

God in His infinite wisdom, has provided all of these things so that mankind might experience and appreciate, the wonderful things that he has prepared for us.

All the ugly, evil, and misery of life is like the scaffolding of a building. While creation of the new building is in progress, the scaffolding is an eye-sore, and serves no practical purpose except the actual creation of the building. But, when the beautiful building is completed, we tear down the ugly scaffolding and throw it away it serves no more useful purpose to our completed building, ever. So we read that even DEATH, the LAST ENEMY, will be ABOLISHED 1Cor. 15:26!!

 

[Br4nd0n]

Free will is a myth of man it does not exist.

I guess we will agree to disagree. Take care stockwell

 

[WIP]

This discussion is in the Q&A forum. Please restrict your replies to the original poster (OP). If you wish to discuss a difference of opinion, start a new discussion thread in the appropriate forum.

 

[RBDERRICK]

Just wonder. I've been thinking about it for a long time. But I always answer myself with an answer like "That's how God decided, and that's it, so who am I to ask such questions."
If god knows everything, why he even created us? I mean He knew that the devil would tempt Eve and that Eve would tempt man.
He knew all this would happen from the beginning. It is written that God saw that people were doing bad things and he was sad because of that. But why he was sad? Didn't he know all this would happen? I can't understand. Why create this world if eventually he destroyed everyone in a flood except noah? God knew that humanity would betray him and disobey him. He knew that sin would rule the world. So what is this whole process for? just why? Why all this suffering in the first place? Regardless of free choice. God knows what we will going to choose. anyway, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this whole creation thing. After all, not everyone is chosen by God. But what does it means that not everyone chosen? A human was born into this world to end up burning in hell forever just because God didn't choose him? This is sad. My sister, for example, doesn't believe in Yeshua. She believes in God but not in Yeshua. And no matter how much I tried to talk to her, it just doesn't help. She refuses to accept Yeshua. After all, if God wanted, he would open her heart . There is complete unfairness here and it is sad and painful. Ultimately God decides who will receive the gospel and who will not. I would appreciate it if someone could try to explain it to me please.

God only foreknows what will happen. He does not predetermine what we will do. He only foreknows because He watches all things happening, when they happen, and so knows it from the beginning.

He did not know the devil would tempt Eve, because He did not know Adam would not keep the garden as commanded. Nor did He know Eve would allow herself to be decieved.

Do something today that will change your entire future: Stop trying to figure it all out, and repent of your own will, and only do the will of Jesus by faith.

Understanding the way of the Lord will follow. In the meantime, it's more important to do good, than to understand.