Allah Is A False God

[thessalonian]

8-)

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

Lewis W. and thessalonian,

I think that 1 Corinthians is also very applicable here:

1 Corinthians 2:11-16

I was too lazy to type it out... 8-)

 

[Biblereader]

THessalonian, Cornelius's prayer was heard on the basis of his faith, and on the basis of Scripture.

Jesus promised He would in no wise cast out anyone who called upon Him to save them.

 

[thessalonian]

THessalonian, Cornelius's prayer was heard on the basis of his faith, and on the basis of Scripture.

Jesus promised He would in no wise cast out anyone who called upon Him to save them.

Amen. So can a Moslem call out to God even though he does not know the ins and outs of who he is?

 

[thessalonian]

It is my understanding that Middle Eastern Christians call God Allah as well. Are they wrong for doing so? Is their God the wrong God if they do?

 

[Gary]

Usual misunderstanding of those who know little...

It is my understanding that Middle Eastern Christians call God Allah as well. Are they wrong for doing so? Is their God the wrong God if they do?

In the Arabic Bible, the word "Allah" is used. But although "Allah" is used by Arabic speaking Christians, they do not have the same Being in mind. Arabic speaking Christians do NOT use "Allah" as the personal name of their God. That is the essential difference.

We are well aware that the name Allah is used by Arab speaking Christians for the God of the Bible. In fact, the root from which the name is derived, ilah, stems from the ancient Semitic languages, corresponding to the Mesopotamian IL, as well as the Hebrew-Aramaic EL, as in Ishma-el, Immanu-el, Isra-el. These terms were often used to refer to any deity worshiped as a high god, especially the chief deity amongst a pantheon of lesser gods. As such, the Holy Bible uses the term as just one of the many titles for Yahweh, the only true God.

Yet the problem arises from the fact that Muslims insist that Allah is not a title, but the personal name of the God of Islam. This becomes problematic since according to the Holy Bible the name of the God of Abraham is Yahweh/Jehovah, not Allah:

God spoke further to Moses and said to him, "I am Yahweh (YHVH) and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty; BUT BY MY NAME, YAHWEH, I did not make myself known to them." Exodus 6:2-3
Therefore, Christians can use Allah as a title but not as the personal name for the God of the Bible.

Read more: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm

 

[Gary]

He knows very little... but still says a lot!

Thess of course there is some truth in Islam, and some good in Islam, Sura 2:136 says that we believe everything that the Bible says, but they don't believe that Jesus is the son of God. And there is countless other stuff. I have no respect for their god, and why should I? Let me ask you something, have you ever did a deep study of Islam?

No, I have not (done a deep study of Islam) in all honesty and I should. Though I don't think it neccessary in order to convert someone to understand their religion. It does help to know their concept of God. The point I am trying to make I is how do you convert the Moselm?

Amazing....

Let us read what John Gilchrist has to say. John is an evangelist to Muslims. In his world-renowned book, "Sharing the Gospel with Muslims - A Handbook for Bible-based Muslim Evangelism", John has this to say:

Over almost twenty years, in the nineteen-seventies and eighties, I was privileged to be part of a special group of young Christians seeking to share the Gospel with Muslims in our province in South Africa, the Transvaal. The province no longer exists for the provincial maps of South Africa have dramatically changed in the past ten years, but the Transvaal was the northernmost province sandwiched between Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique. About 50 000 Muslims lived within its borders and we visited them from home to home in every city and town, covering virtually every Muslim home in the province excepting Lenasia near Johannesburg, where the largest Muslim community lives, which we only partially evangelised.

... so we know John Gilchrist has the experience and knowledge...

There were results, but they are not the theme of this book. Using the Word of God effectively in reaching Muslims for Christ is the theme, and the contents of this book record various ways we learnt over the years of witnessing to Muslims from the pages of the Bible, God’s holy Word, and the supreme source which the Spirit uses to direct all mankind to the Gospel. Its value for this purpose is summed up in this verse:

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Hebrews 4:12

We also learned, however, from the pages of Scripture itself, that the most constructive way of using the Bible in witnessing to Muslims is to base our witness on the points of belief that we share in common with them, and to build a Gospel message on these subjects of common ground. We will look at this in more detail.

... "common ground" would mean that you understand the Quran and the Hadith...

When Paul went into the Jewish synagogues scattered throughout Greece and Asia Minor, he was able to freely argue with all present, explaining and proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the long-awaited Messiah. When he arrived at Athens, however, and looked around the city, he found himself in a very different environment. The city was full of idols and its markets were frequented regularly by Epicurean, Stoic and other philosophers. He was no longer on his own turf. How did he evangelise people from a totally different nation, culture and religious heritage? When he stood on the great Areopagus and was challenged to present his message to the locals who regarded what he had already preached as a strange new teaching, he began:

Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, "To an unknown god." What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. Acts 17:22-23

...so what lessons do we learn from this?...

There are important lessons to be learnt from this brief passage. Firstly, Paul made himself acquainted with the beliefs of the people he sought to evangelise. The best way of getting the impact of this principle is to accentuate certain words in his first sentence: "I perceive that in every way you are very religious. For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription." Paul took time to familiarise himself with the background of the people he wished to reach. He perceived, as he passed by he also observed, and as he did so he found an altar.

• In Muslim evangelism the Christian must learn as much as he can about the beliefs and practices of those he desires to reach. It is essential to learn the Qur’an and important parts of the Hadith. Then he can communicate sensitively, effectively and intelligently with them.

The second point, which arises out of the first one, is the need to seek for common ground with Muslims in their beliefs, especially those which agree with our own beliefs and scriptural teachings. Throughout this book this is the basic principle applied to using the Bible in witnessing to Muslims. Where you can establish common ground, you can gain a better hearing and present the Gospel against the background of what Muslims already believe. Paul did this and you will find much power in witnessing when you do the same. "What you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you," Paul declared.

There is also a third important lesson we can learn from Paul, this time in his arguments with the Jews in the local synagogues. He argued with them from the scriptures (Acts 17:2). He did not resort to illustrations, theological discourses or human reasoning, useful though these may be at times. He based his messages on the Word of God which, as we have already seen, is the best foundation for a positive witness. It is the sword of the Spirit, it is living and active, it penetrates the very depths of soul and spirit, and it is God’s best instrument for drawing unbelievers to the Gospel of his Son.

Read more:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Gilchris ... index.html (whole book online)
and here for the quotes above:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Gilchris ... intro.html

If you want to evangelize Muslims, I suggest you learn more. As John suggested, "It is essential to learn the Qur’an and important parts of the Hadith." Many Roman Catholics have THOUGHT they could evangelize Muslims... and instead, they landed up being converted to Islam! I think they are drawn by all the ritual in Islam; much like Roman Catholicism.

:o :o

 

[Gary]

Prophets the Quran got wront

I dont see how you can claim that the God the muslims worship and the God the the christians worship are different. You say you have studied Islam in depth so you should know that when it comes to every other prophet before Jesus(pbuh) that the Quran and the Bible run close parallels.....

That is not true at all. Anyone who has studied both the Bible and the Quran will know that the Quran has a very warped picture of the Old Testament prophets... very much like the "broken phone" experiment/game; a very dim picture of the truth.

The Quran has:
Adam the "Chosen of Allah",
Noah (Nuh), the "Prophet of Allah",
Moses (Musa), the "Coverser with Allah",
Abraham (Ibrahim), the "Friend of Allah",
Ishmael (Isma'il), the "Sacrifice of Allah",
Jesus (Isa), the "Word of Allah" and the "Spirit of Allah".
Isaac (Ishaq),
Jacob (Ya'qub),
David (Dawud),
Solomon (Sulaiman),
Elijah,
Elisha,
Jonah (Yunus),
John the Baptist (Yahya),
Zechariah (Zakariya), father of John the Baptist.

This would also be the list if I asked a 12-year old boy to list the prophets of the Bible. They forget most... and many of the most important because they don't understand them!

Muhammad got to know a little bit of Judaism (after he took a Jewish wife). But he missed many of the significant prophets like Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel... and some of the "minor" prophets like Amos, Haggai and Malachi.

:o :o

Muhammad also made several other historical mistakes and compressions. As I said, it is like a 12-year old trying to tell the stories of what he has heard.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Co ... html#bible

 

[Poke]

Allah is a false God.

The muslim god is no more false than the god of the Jews. Both Muslims and Jews falsely claim their god is the God of Abraham. In Christian theology, Jesus is God and anyone who rejects Jesus has rejected God. For this reason, Jesus said the Jews belong to Satan.

Allah the moon God

That's not true. The symbol of the moon wasn't even associated with early Islam. Islam claims to have the same god as the God of the OT.

Mohammed a false prophet

Yes, and so is anyone else passing off their words as holy scripture.

Exposing Satanisim

Satanism, zionism, potato, patoto.

 

[Vic C.]

Poke, I often wonder who's side you are on. You bash zionism and with it many Christians, you look down at the Jews which says you are anti semetic yet I see you here being a Muslim sympathizer... and it's not the first time I've noticed it.

Most of what you said in the post above is just wrong. :-? I guarantee Gary will run rings around what you claim to know about Islam.

 

[Lewis]

Allah is a false God.

The muslim god is no more false than the god of the Jews. Both Muslims and Jews falsely claim their god is the God of Abraham. In Christian theology, Jesus is God and anyone who rejects Jesus has rejected God. For this reason, Jesus said the Jews belong to Satan.

Allah the moon God

That's not true. The symbol of the moon wasn't even associated with early Islam. Islam claims to have the same god as the God of the OT.

[quote:61167]Mohammed a false prophet

Yes, and so is anyone else passing off their words as holy scripture.

Exposing Satanisim

Satanism, zionism, potato, patoto.[/quote:61167]
You know what Poke I have did a lot of study on Islam, I have a Quran and a Hadith and tons of information on Isalm, and I can say that you do not know what you are talking about, at all. Everything you said up there I could prove you wrong, but you know what I don't feel like it. Because it is no use. You will believe what you want to, anyway, so why should I waste my time. But the only thing you said partially right is about Abraham, because they did come from him, by way of his son Ishmale and God said them decendents would be a wild bunch and they are. And yes the moon god is very much a part of them dating back to the 7th century. The way it goes is Allah the moon god married the sun, and out of them 2 were three goddesses born, and their names were Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat. And all five of them were viewed as high gods. Wait a minute I said that I was not going to do this. So let me stop now.

 

[Poke]

You know what Poke I have did a lot of study on Islam, I have a Quran and a Hadith and tons of information on Isalm, and I can say that you do not know what you are talking about, at all.

I read the links in the original post. Take the moon-god claim. Your links claim that worship of the moon-god was common in ancient times, and symbolized with a crescent moon. And, that the word Allah may have derived from the name of the moon-god.

Whatever the origin of the word "Allah", it already meant God in Arabic by the time Mohammad came around. If Mohammad started a legitimate Christian denomination, he would have used the word "Allah" just the same.

Your links don't even attempt to build a case that Islamic beliefs are built on the beliefs of moon worshipers. All they do is try link the two by common geography. Such a tactic is practically an admission that Allah is not the moon god. If the beliefs on one are not based on the beliefs of the other, you have no case.

As for the crescent moon:

The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.

It wasn't until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world.

http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa060401a.htm

And yes the moon god is very much a part of them dating back to the 7th century. The way it goes is Allah the moon god married the sun, and out of them 2 were three goddesses born, and their names were Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat. And all five of them were viewed as high gods. Wait a minute I said that I was not going to do this. So let me stop now.

Islam emphatically teaches that there is one God. Yet, you are trying to claim that when Muslims say "God" in Arabic (Allah), that they're referring to a member of a pantheon of gods, just because you say so. It is just because you say so. Because Allah means God, that the moon god was named something like Allah means nothing. You'd have to offer evidence that the term Allah should not be used by Islam to refer to God, if Islam has nothing to do with the moon god.

The Hebrew word "elohiym" used to mean God in the Bible is actually plural, unlike the word Allah. All the words in the Bible that refer to God also have pagan origins.

Anyone honest who ever read the Koran, would unhesitantly confess that Islam is based on the God of the OT, at least from an historical perspective.

 

[Lewis]

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

 

[Gary]

Allah is a false God.. and the Quran proves it

Anyone honest who ever read the Koran, would unhesitantly confess that Islam is based on the God of the OT, at least from an historical perspective.

hmmm... "from a historical perspective"...... then why are there so many historical errors in the Quran, especially related to the OT?

Have you actually read the whole Quran?

If "yes", can you honestly claim that Muhammad was describing the same God (Yahweh) as we read about in the OT? Surely not!

All you have to do is to examine the attributes of Allah in the Quran and compare that to the attributes of God (Yahweh) in the OT. That will show you the difference.... and a very marked difference it is!

Jim, the Father I Knew

By analogy, lets say that from an historical perspective, we compare two books about Jim. Now I know Jim very well; he was my father. I have written a book about my father called "Jim, the father I knew and loved". In that book, I describe Jim's attributes and tell many stories about him; how he interacted with us, his children. How he treated us and taught us, the places we visited.

Now several centuries later, you (Muhammad) come along and write another book about Jim. At first superficial glance, it appears that your book, called "Jim, the best man in the world" appears to be talking about the same Jim. In fact, you even claim that. However, as soon as I read the whole book, I realise that you never knew Jim. It is all in your head. You describe events differently... no, in fact, you describe historical event incorrectly. You talk about a man who is not Jim as I knew him personally. The character and attributes of Jim are different.

Now what do I say about your book and your "Jim"?

Yes, your book is a fraud and your Jim has never existed! You (Muhammad) are also a fraud. What you claim to be from Jim is not so.

:o :o

 

[Lewis]

Don't Muslims worship the same God as Christians?

Many Christians accept the Muslim claim that we both worship the same God. They claim that they call him Allah, while we call him God. It is not unusual to hear Christian leaders make such statements. Bible societies have even gone so far as to use the name Allah in the Bibles they produce for Arab Christians.

The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archeology show clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long before Mohammed came on the scene. Robert Morey, author of The Islamic Invasion, explains:

"Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc. These were pagan rites practiced by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born."

"What religion today practices the pagan rites of the moon god? Islam! This explains why the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. It is placed on top of mosques and minarets and displayed on hats, flags, rugs, amulets and even jewelry. Every time you see the Muslim symbol of a crescent moon, you are seeing the ancient symbol of the moon god."

Second, if you read the Qur'an's description of Allah, and read the Bible's description of God, it becomes obvious you are reading about two different persons. Allah orders his followers to kill those who deny Islam, while God instructs us to love our enemies. Allah had no son while God sent His Son to die for sinful men. Allah is "unknowable" while God seeks a personal relationship with His creation, man.

The spirit behind Islam is an entirely different spirit... a spirit that denies the deity of Jesus Christ. Any Christian who accepts the notion that Allah is God creates an impossible situation. Since the Qur'an contains our only revelation about Allah, they will be forced to look there as their authority. The Qur'an specifically denies the deity of Christ! All Christian witness ends right there.

For more information, read "Islamic Invasion" by Robert Morey.
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

 

[Lewis]

Don't Muslims worship the same God as Christians?

Many Christians accept the Muslim claim that we both worship the same God. They claim that they call him Allah, while we call him God. It is not unusual to hear Christian leaders make such statements. Bible societies have even gone so far as to use the name Allah in the Bibles they produce for Arab Christians.

The problem with this is two-fold. First, history and archeology show clearly that Allah was worshipped as a pagan moon god long before Mohammed came on the scene. Robert Morey, author of The Islamic Invasion, explains:

"Islam's origins have been traced back by scholars to the ancient fertility religion of the worship of the moon god which was always the dominant religion of Arabia. The moon god was worshipped by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making an annual pilgrimage to the Kabah which was a temple of the moon god, running around the Kabah seven times, caressing an idol of a black stone set in the wall of the Kabah, running between two hills, making animal sacrifices, gathering on Fridays for prayers, giving alms to the poor, etc. These were pagan rites practiced by the Arabs long before Muhammad was born."

"What religion today practices the pagan rites of the moon god? Islam! This explains why the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. It is placed on top of mosques and minarets and displayed on hats, flags, rugs, amulets and even jewelry. Every time you see the Muslim symbol of a crescent moon, you are seeing the ancient symbol of the moon god."

Second, if you read the Qur'an's description of Allah, and read the Bible's description of God, it becomes obvious you are reading about two different persons. Allah orders his followers to kill those who deny Islam, while God instructs us to love our enemies. Allah had no son while God sent His Son to die for sinful men. Allah is "unknowable" while God seeks a personal relationship with His creation, man.

The spirit behind Islam is an entirely different spirit... a spirit that denies the deity of Jesus Christ. Any Christian who accepts the notion that Allah is God creates an impossible situation. Since the Qur'an contains our only revelation about Allah, they will be forced to look there as their authority. The Qur'an specifically denies the deity of Christ! All Christian witness ends right there.

For more information, read "Islamic Invasion" by Robert Morey.
http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

 

[Poke]

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

I see claims that are unjustified by reason or evidence.

 

[Poke]

Re: Allah is a false God.. and the Quran proves it

If "yes", can you honestly claim that Muhammad was describing the same God (Yahweh) as we read about in the OT? Surely not!

It's a lie that Allah is based on a moon god. In this thread, I have already addressed my belief about if Allah is the God of Abraham.

 

[Lewis]

So Poke what faith do you belong to ? Do you proclaim to be a Christian ?

 

[Poke]

So Poke what faith do you belong to ? Do you proclaim to be a Christian ?

I most certainly am Christian. And, I hold that all non-Christian faiths are false. Judaism, Islam, etc. But, I also don't approve of false representation of false faiths. Islam is an OT ripoff, not a moon-god ripoff.