[_ Old Earth _] Alleged Homo Neladi

[brother Paul]

Well I have another question about the head….first look carefully at the arranged display of what we actually found…

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/09/homo-naledi-rising-star-cave-hominin/404362/

In the actual fossils I do see any semblance of a distinct sagittal crest (not saying Neladi may not have had one, but it so pronounced when one looks at the cast? It even looks filed). Why is it a part of the cast as if part of the actual fossil?

Here is an optional view…

http://www.techinsider.io/new-human-ancestor-homo-naledi-hominin-discovered-2015-9

See what I mean? The skull shown in pictures appear to have been fabricated! Why?

 

[Paloma]

An interesting and possible "could be" P....and why have they already concluded "more bipedal" there are only a few fragments of broken hip bones and the femurs (large thigh bones) are virtually straight (not much angle at all)....but watch what happens in some of the reconstructions...(they add a little plaster and cut away what THEY claim does not fit and viola')

Precisely brother Paul... They see in the data their preconceived views and fit accordingly. "Evolution is true, therefore these must be transitions..." We do the same, granted; ones starting point determines the end point. My starting point is scripture...

Another thought came to me in church today... perhaps there was terrible natural disaster, (meteor ?) or storm that drove the family of apes deep into the cave but for what ever reason, they could not get back out. It would be nice to see a recreation or video the actual cave and journey to the chamber to get a better feel for how treacherous the path was.

 

[Paloma]

Great find brother Paul..... So, looking at "Dragons Back", clearly anything that "fell" into the chamber was not getting back out. It could get in but not out. But this is assuming that the entire cave has not changed since the crratures made their way....

 

[Paloma]

Or perhaps it was just a "natural death trap".... Various apes ( extint cave dwelling type?) over a period of time, looking for shelter or whatever, found themselves trapped in that chamber after climbing down the shoot. Kind of like a lobster trap. They can easily get in but not out. Humans, (like the team who found them) could get out as they have mental ability to navigate complex issues... Did the team use ropes to climb back out the shoot I wonder or was it done free style?

 

[Barbarian]

An interesting and possible "could be" P....and why have they already concluded "more bipedal" there are only a few fragments of broken hip bones and the femurs (large thigh bones)

The feet are almost identical to our own, which is consistent with previous evidence that bipedality preceded evolution of the skull. No point in having feet for walking bipedally, without the hips and knees to do with it.

are virtually straight (not much angle at all)...

Not quite straight, as we see in apes other than hominins like us. So they were knock-kneed like us, but not as much.

but watch what happens in some of the reconstructions...(they add a little plaster and cut away what THEY claim does not fit and viola')

If so, that would be unprecedented dishonesty. I think it's time for you to come up with some convincing evidence for that.

 

[Barbarian]

I think in reality some being labelled Erectus and some alleged Heidelbergs (minus the added and unrelated African ape skull Bodo) are simply early less successful varieties of Sapien (like Neanderthal and Denisovans).

It's one of the predictions of evolutionary theory. Early H. erectus looks a lot like the advanced Australopithecines. Late H. erectus looks a lot like archaic H. sapiens.

No one really finds that remarkable. It's what we would expect to find.

 

[Barbarian]

Well I have another question about the head….first look carefully at the arranged display of what we actually found…

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/09/homo-naledi-rising-star-cave-hominin/404362/

In the actual fossils I do see any semblance of a distinct sagittal crest (not saying Neladi may not have had one, but it so pronounced when one looks at the cast? It even looks filed). Why is it a part of the cast as if part of the actual fossil?

I don't see what you're referring to.

See what I mean?

No, actually, I don't. I don't see what you think you see. How about putting the image here, so we can all see?

 

[turnorburn]

If Adam happened to be H. erectus, or H. heidelbergensis, rather than H. sapiens, would you be offended?

You questioning Gods word with a theory that leads to atheism offends me, even Richard Dawkins agrees..

tob

 

[brother Paul]

Not quite straight, as we see in apes other than hominins like us. So they were knock-kneed like us, but not as much.

Sorry do not see evidence for knock Kneed in the fossils itself….

If so, that would be unprecedented dishonesty. I think it's time for you to come up with some convincing evidence for that.

Sorry, that may or may not be the case, but if it is, it will come later when reconstructions begin to appear.

 

[brother Paul]

Well I have another question about the head….first look carefully at the arranged display of what we actually found…

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/09/homo-naledi-rising-star-cave-hominin/404362/



I don't see what you're referring to.



No, actually, I don't. I don't see what you think you see. How about putting the image here, so we can all see?

Click on the link and the image magically appears....what you see is what we actually have....then see the pictures all over the media of the little head and compare....

Can't really say the big toe is placed appropriately though...it is positioned how they suspect it would be...but can we be sure? Hmmm?

 

[Barbarian]

but watch what happens in some of the reconstructions...(they add a little plaster and cut away what THEY claim does not fit and viola')

Barbarian suggests:
If so, that would be unprecedented dishonesty. I think it's time for you to come up with some convincing evidence for that.

Sorry, that may or may not be the case

I see... this is probably not a good thing for you to say, if it isn't true.

 

[Barbarian]

And I can't find, in any images of the skull of this species, a sagittal crest. How about showing us one? All the images of reconstructions that I see, show no sagittal crest at all. Do you know what a "sagittal crest" is?

 

[Barbarian]

I also noted that at least one mandible has a much reduced simian shelf, compared to Australopithecines, perhaps less than H. neandertalis. Another transitional feature. Apparently the superior articular face of the talus is rectangular, not trapezoidal, as it is in apes other than Homo and Australopithecus.

 

[brother Paul]

And I can't find, in any images of the skull of this species, a sagittal crest. How about showing us one? All the images of reconstructions that I see, show no sagittal crest at all. Do you know what a "sagittal crest" is?

Yes, and that was my point as well...

I also do not see the apelike brow that the skull reconstruction contains or anything that would give indication of the nose

 

[Paloma]

I also noted that at least one mandible has a much reduced simian shelf, compared to Australopithecines, perhaps less than H. neandertalis. Another transitional feature. Apparently the superior articular face of the talus is rectangular, not trapezoidal, as it is in apes other than Homo and Australopithecus.

You can tell all this ^^ from that picture?

 

[Barbarian]

You can tell all this ^^ from that picture?

You can if you know a bit about human anatomy. The simian shelf is easily observed by looking straight down at the mandible. The shape of the articulation of the talus is shown by its connection to the tibia. In humans, it's rectangular. In chimps, it's trapezoidal.

 

[Paloma]

Just researching skulls here, with all this interest... I hope this post is relevant to this discussion.

I will admit I don't know allot about the whole skull world, seems to me to be very confusing but I am slowly learning.

Just looked up what a sagittal crest was, thanks for posting new things guys.

Then I found this picture on the web.

Then it dawned on me... What would a 950 year old skull look like?

Check out these ages of the men in the Bible:

Age Bible Reference
1 Adam 930 Genesis 5:4
2 Seth 912 Genesis 5:8
3 Enosh 905 Genesis 5:11
4 Cainan 910 Genesis 5:14
5 Mahalalel 895 Genesis 5:17
6 Jared 962 Genesis 5:20
7 Enoch 365 (translated) Genesis 5:23
8 Methuselah 969 Genesis 5:27
9 Lamech 777 Genesis 5:31
10 Noah 950

Now it would be logical to assume, that if these men lived to such great ages, then most of the men and women may have grown that old. We would be finding skulls of very old men and women. Many features of us keep growing as we age; perhaps bone continues to change? The prominent brow ridge could very well be nothing more than an old, old man. The evolutionsists then misinterpreted old men's skulls for "transitiory men...

So I ask again, what does a 950 year old skull look like?

Just thinking outside the box a little.

 

[Barbarian]

(claims of a "sagittal crest" on reconstructions of this fossil)

In the actual fossils I do see any semblance of a distinct sagittal crest (not saying Neladi may not have had one, but it so pronounced when one looks at the cast? It even looks filed). Why is it a part of the cast as if part of the actual fossil?

Barbarian asks:
And I can't find, in any images of the skull of this species, a sagittal crest. How about showing us one? All the images of reconstructions that I see, show no sagittal crest at all. Do you know what a "sagittal crest" is?

Yes, and that was my point as well...

Then I'm puzzled by your earlier post. Why did you say it was a part of the cast? There is no sagittal crest in any of the reconstructions you've shown us.

I also do not see the apelike brow that the skull reconstruction contains

That is very prominent. There are prominent brow ridges, and the brow slopes back in an apelike fashion. The face, jaws, teeth, and cranium are rather human, but the brow is apelike.

or anything that would give indication of the nose

The upper part of the aveolar process is missing on the one I've seen, so you can't be sure, but the length of the existing part suggests an apelike nose, as does the portions of the orbits that remain.

 

[brother Paul]

Found a picture of a piece of brow ridge which was found later and it represents about 1/3 skull and shows a definite half sagittal crest...

 

[Barbarian]

Now it would be logical to assume, that if these men lived to such great ages, then most of the men and women may have grown that old. We would be finding skulls of very old men and women. Many features of us keep growing as we age; perhaps bone continues to change?

In humans, the cranium continues to grow, until the late teens or early 20s at latest.

The prominent brow ridge could very well be nothing more than an old, old man

No, brow ridges are found on hominins whose skulls recede, because they provide some protection to eyes. The bulbous skull of H. sapiens occupies that space, and protects eyes in similar fashion. Brow ridges do not appear in old men. Being of Northern European ancestry, I presumably have some Neandertal genes, and have small, but detectable by touch, brow ridges.

The evolutionsists then misinterpreted old men's skulls for "transitiory men...

So I ask again, what does a 950 year old skull look like?

With advanced age, there is increasing loss of bone in the lower jaw and other parts of the skull. So somewhat like this...