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America in Prophecy

Geo

Member
Actually I just came back from a pleasant vacation,
however this theme here doesn't leave me alone,
it's the future of America. One of the Christian sites
I frequently read generally cannot answer the question
about where America is in the prophetic scriptures,
except that it seems never be mentioned. I do not
agree on this.

So I searched for prophecy regarding America
on the (christian) Internet and found these items:

http://www.injesus.com/Groups/ViewMessa ... GU&UCD=1xh

http://www.injesus.com/Groups/ViewMessa ... EQ&UCD=1xh

http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/ambabmes.htm

http://xsorbit25.com/users5/forzionssak ... pic=7832.0

http://www.americaslastdays.com/dreamsvisions.htm

I do not have a final opinion on these prophecies, although
some seem to agree with each other and speak about the
very same things. Things National Geographic does not
tell us about. I can understand that, but if the church keeps
quiet, I get a bit suspicious and have to ask why.

May it help some of you to draw closer to the Lord
instead of entertaining yourself with rosy pictures the public
media draws with projected prosperity and peace and safety
that doen't correspond with Jeremiah 50 & 51 and Revelations.
 
You can try Isaiah 18 for starters. That seems to describe the USA to me. In the KJV, a land "meted out and trodden down" and " land the rivers have spoiled" i.e., show our surveying obcession where everything is measured out and "spoiled" is "cleaved" or merely divided. There's rivers all over the place and acts as our natural borders.

Then again, you can look on this subject as I do--- lost tribes of Israel. Could this nation be one of them? If so, then a lot of prophecy makes far more sense. To apply all the prophecies of Israel to the Jew only is like applying the history of the REBELS in the south to all of the people in the United States. Much like this nation of the US, God really had two people, the Israelites and the Jews. They were supposed to have operated as one nation, but each had different prophetic blessings. Only the Jews returned to the land of Israel prior to Christ which were mainly the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and some Levites. The rest never came back. Nevertheless, the promises to Israel are still in effect, and therefore one has to look for people other than the Jews regarding fulfillment.
 
I read some more of the content I referenced in the links.
There seems to be a consistent time frame in link 3 and 4

they both place major trouble in the US before the 7-year period
of the tribulation, what seems significant. Link 3 seems to be the
scripture literate person that understands the connection of all
mentioned Bible prophecies and link 4 is by someone that spells
many words wrong but seems to have repeat visions about related
identical content.

Both match with prophecies I found in link 5 by Demetri Dudaman
someone I heard speaking through an interpreter before. He is
the 'real thing' and he received a ministry to tell everyone what
he has to tell. The same is said about Henry Gruver, although
most his material is for sale only. If anybody can comment
on any content of his ministry messages, I would love to hear it.
 
I was just reminded that there comes a time in every
believer's life to 'cut the crap' and get real with Jesus.

This might be another indication that this time is coming
sooner than expected and we better prepare us with the reality
of Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit instead of only the theory.

Prophecy through Tom Deckard

The plague will come out of the chickens and go into the animals,
and be spread by ducks, and geese around the world, and then will
change into an airborne virus.

America will quarantine the nation. All businesses, banks, and
governments will shut down. There will be no planes flying anymore.

This plague has already killed people in Asia, but when it comes airborne
millions upon millions of people will die, including Christians.

Psalm 91 is not automatic, only those that know Jesus, and serve Him
in both Spirit and Truth will escape the judgments that are now coming
to this Earth.

source: http://www.americaslastdays.com/bombs-f ... ations.htm
 
My church (Seventh Day Adventist) believes the the second beast of Revelation 13 is the United States of America.
Daniel 7:25= Revelation 13:1-6. And it is also the 1260 prophetic years, time and times and the deviding of time. Revelation 13:5 forty andtwo months= 1260 years in prophecy.but anyway I had read a book in 1997 which I cannot remember the name of the book, that tied America in the book of daniel, I forgot some of it. But I think America was one of the horns, correct me if I am wrong, because I forgot
 
Lewis W said:
My church (Seventh Day Adventist) believes the the second beast of Revelation 13 is the United States of America.
Daniel 7:25= Revelation 13:1-6. And it is also the 1260 prophetic years, time and times and the deviding of time. Revelation 13:5 forty andtwo months= 1260 years in prophecy.but anyway I had read a book in 1997 which I cannot remember the name of the book, that tied America in the book of daniel, I forgot some of it. But I think America was one of the horns, correct me if I am wrong, because I forgot

It depends on who you identify the beast of Daniel 7 with to determine the horns. The fourth beast when compared to history and Daniel 2 is the Roman kindom.

Notice that out of the beast arises 10 horns (a kingdom, king or power) and then one little horn who 'speaks great words against the most high' and 'persecutes the saints' and rules for '1260 days'. It also uproots three of the 10 horns.

Only one power that fits both religious and political themes in this chapter exists: The Roman Catholic church. The Bishop of Rome received great power when Western Rome fell. It even had a hand in bringing down three of the barbarian tribes (Vandals, Heruli and Ostrogoths).

This is what the Reformers believed (That Rome was the beast of Revelation) and historically, it fits.

If you are speaking of the little horn in Daniel 8 and the king of the North in Daniel 11, there are many problems with trying to make it fit America.
 
This is what the Reformers believed (That Rome was the beast of Revelation) and historically, it fits.

If you are speaking of the little horn in Daniel 8 and the king of the North in Daniel 11, there are many problems with trying to make it fit America.
I agree with you on the second part. As far as Rome being the first beast, I believe they fit the description of the second beast much better. I see the first beast as being a conglomerate of previous seven beasts and the second beast, the false prophet, in my opinion, fits Rome, or the RCC.

I believe Ezekiel 38 gives us a good historical insight on who the Antichrist might be.
 
You guy's are going to make me study this stuff again. Which is good I need to refresh my mind on this subject. Starting today. Vic I remember the stuff you posted, and I also just remembered, that I still have my papers from that 1997 study, and I will be pulling them out.
 
Lewis W said:
You guy's are going to make me study this stuff again. Which is good I need to refresh my mind on this subject. Starting today.
:-D

Vic I remember the stuff you posted, and I also just remembered, that I still have my papers from that 1997 study, and I will be pulling them out.
You're a better man than I. I don't remember half of what I post and the other half I can't find when I look for it. ;-)
 
Vic said:
As far as Rome being the first beast, I believe they fit the description of the second beast much better. I see the first beast as being a conglomerate of previous seven beasts and the second beast, the false prophet, in my opinion, fits Rome, or the RCC

Vic, can you explain why? It seems to me that the characteristics of the little horn in Daniel 7 are carried over to the Beast of Revelation 13 (persecuting, having the same characteristics of all the beasts before it, reigning for 1260 years).

The reason why I believe that America is the second beast is because it follows the beast and causes people to worship it. It creates an image to the Beast. We see that Protestant America is trying hard to become more ecumenical and enforce religious views and take away religious liberty, exactly as the Catholic church did in the Middle Ages (and would do again if given the chance). Hence the 'image' or 'likeness' of the powers of the 1st Beast.

Multitudes and great numbers of people are symolized by the 'sea'. The second beast comes out of the 'earth'. Hence this would mean that the beast arose out of an unpopulated area after the 1st beast.

It looks like a lamb but speaks as a dragon.

America was founded on religious freedom with it's constitution to protect the citizens. But we see that there is constant threat to these freedoms by the religious right. If they had their way, their religous views would be enforced by the government.

How does a power 'speak'? Through it's laws!

How many presidents have we seen fawning and meeting with the pope and consulting him on world affairs? The 'whole world wondered after the 1st beast'.

This is so true with the Catholic church.

Why do you think the RCC is better represented by the second beast and not the first?
 
I'll try to make it as brief as possible. Those who have been with me since I started seriously posting in this Forum may already know who I think the first beast is and why. That's why I pointed out Ezekiel 38 as a historical reference on the ancestral line of antichrist. I do believe literally that it is one person, not a nation. I don't see the US as fitting the Biblical description of antichrist as I read in Ezekiel.

I think Rome is prime to carry out the "duties" of the false prophet in Revelation better than anyone. I do believe they are there, but since I don't see them as the First Beast nor do I see them as the harlot as many do, I place them in the second spot. Think about it, who is in better position to lead people to worship the First beast and an image of the same?

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Remembering that the object of antichrist is not global political domination, but global worship of himself. He actually only aligns himself with 10 nations and only subdues three of the ten. He is a combination of the beasts before him. (past tense) He was a powerful military leader. (past tense) Following the lineage in Ezekiel, he would most likely come from the Japhetic bloodline. (the same like as Magog) This doesn't fit the USA.

It seems to me that the characteristics of the little horn in Daniel 7 are carried over to the Beast of Revelation 13
That little horn also takes on the characteristics of a Stalin or... Hitler too.

Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

I truly believe the Woman in this passage is Israel. Now... who was it in the past that persecuted Israel? America? No... much of the world hates us for our relationship with them. I try hard to stay within the parameters of the Bible and Biblical history where and when possible. I read the book on America being in prophecy. I don't buy most of it. Sorry. There are just too many pieces in the Bible and it's history alone to fulfill prophecy.

See, I said it would be short! :lol:
 
Vic said:
I think Rome is prime to carry out the "duties" of the false prophet in Revelation better than anyone. I do believe they are there, but since I don't see them as the First Beast nor do I see them as the harlot as many do, I place them in the second spot. Think about it, who is in better position to lead people to worship the First beast and an image of the same?
Remembering that the object of antichrist is not global political domination, but global worship of himself. He actually only aligns himself with 10 nations and only subdues three of the ten. He is a combination of the beasts before him. (past tense) He was a powerful military leader. (past tense) Following the lineage in Ezekiel, he would most likely come from the Japhetic bloodline. (the same like as Magog) This doesn't fit the USA.

So the RCC is the false-prophet but not the anti-Christ or the second beast. I thought you had said that you felt the RCC was the second beast? You haven't really shown how it fits either. I'm very confused, Vic... :-?

And who do you think the dragon and the first beast are then?

Why don't you think that the whore of Babylon is the RCC? This is what the Reformers believed and it fits. A woman is symbolic of a church. The harlot is a church with false doctrine (wine). She is drunk on the blood of the saints (persecution and murder of millions of saints throughout its history) and is decked out in jewels and fine linens (pomp and wealth of the papacy).

Doesn't seem like it could fit anything else.
 
You're a better man than I. I don't remember half of what I post and the other half I can't find when I look for it.
What I was saying Vic, was that I remember the stuff you said in that post, because I studied it before, and you reminded me of it, Because I recognized it right away.
 
This is from a note that I wrote on the outer border of Ezekiel 38.
1. Battle of Gog. Magog son of Japheth. So this would be the bloodline.
2.Gog is the symbolic name representing the leader of the world powers antagonistic to God.


Remembering that the object of antichrist is not global political domination, but global worship of himself
But this statement by Vic makes a lot of sense as well as the rest of the post.
And also the great battle of Ezekiel 38 and 39 must take place before Israel is restored. Not to stray to far away from the subject, but it just made me think.
 
For people that don't read content of links, lets look at the consistency
that is found in Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah and Revelation:


BEASTS & SEALS - Defining the Players

Looking at Daniel 7 and Revelation 6 we find parallel chapters. The whole books of Daniel and Revelation are closely related.

We are NOW looking down the barrel of the Gog-Megog war against Israel as described in Ezekiel chapter 38 & 39, where Israel is attacked by Gog, and Gog will loose. They will be driven back and 5 out of 6 of the armies of Gog will die in this attack on Israel. Do we know that America's destruction is at the SAME TIME?

Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Dan 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

The LION is England. The lion is on England's crests, in Trafalger Square, and is the national beast of England. .

The Eagle's Wings is America, born of England. The national beast of America is the Bald Eagle.

Whose is going to pluck the wings of America? The BEAR.

The Bear - Russia is the BEAR. The land of Gog, the land Megog. The bear has become enormous and is in league with the Arab countries.

Now compare the first two Beasts with the opening of the seals of Revelation 6

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

First seal has been opened for quite some time. England produced Lion cub colonies all over the world. It was said for a long time that the sun never sets on the British Empire. One of the Lion Cubs had Eagle's Wings, America. The first seal has been opened for a quite some time now. Remember that America gave birth to the United Nations. One of the statues out in front of the UN building in New York is a rider on the horse with a bow and no arrow. America's wings are soon to be plucked by the Bear, at the opening of the 2nd seal, of the Red Horse of Rev 6:4. This event is at the door.

1 Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Ezek 38:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

Ezek 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

Ezek 38:12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

Ezek 38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?


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Birth Pangs -

1948 Israel becomes a nation in the promised land.

1967 Israel secures Jerusalem.

Eccl 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

We need to support Israel. They have the decreed right to that promised land straight from the Lord of Hosts. We need to keep our eyes on Jerusalem. The players are all in place for the Gog-Megog war on Israel. The Arabs and Gog, Russia, are preparing for this war on Israel, which is the theme of Ezekiel chapters 38 & 39. America, the land of unwalled villages, needs to pay close attention to this war because Ezekiel 38:10-13 is dealing with what happens to America in this war. The difference between America and Israel will be that Israel will be left standing at the end of this war. But, America's borders will be burned, and her farmlands will be looted and plundered.

Ezek 38:10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

Ezek 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

Ezek 38:12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

Ezek 38:13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

When the Russian bear, with the Arab and Red allies, attack Israel, at the SAME TIME they will spring up in America, causing revolution, and robbing a people who are so wrapped up in persuit of pleasure, so as not to see what is coming.

Then shocked nations like Canada, England, and Australia - will ask the Russian bear and the red Chineese "What are you doing to America?"

Jer 51:14 The LORD of hosts hath sworn by himself, saying, Surely I will fill thee with men, as with caterpillars; and they shall lift up a shout against thee.

Two very important Chapters related to America are Jeremiah 50 and 51.


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Jeremiah 50 and 51 Two Very Important Chapters

Who is it addressing ?

Jer 51:33 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; The daughter of Babylon is like a threshingfloor, it is time to thresh her: yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come.

Who is she ?

The daughter of Babylon, the daughter of Chaldea, Lady Liberty, thou has shackled thy children with iniquity. In that thou shall fall when the Lord visiteth thee.

The plan of attack:

Jer 50:2 Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces.

Jer 50:3 For out of the north there cometh up a nation against her, which shall make her land desolate, and none shall dwell therein: they shall remove, they shall depart, both man and beast.

Jer 50:9 For, lo, I will raise and cause to come up against Babylon an assembly of great nations from the north country: and they shall set themselves in array against her; from thence she shall be taken: their arrows shall be as of a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain.

From the north comes a nation and an assembly of great nations against Babylon. That is not a contradiction. There are no contradictions in the Word of God. They are both true. Any time you come across something like this BOTH ARE TRUE. Russia was a nation. Now they are an assembly of great nations. That is precisely what happened to Russia. They split up into different republics. Yet, they still have the same agenda, all of them and their communist and Arab allies, destroy America.

The scripture continues, their arrows shall be as of a mighty expert man; none shall return in vain. Guidance systems on Russian missles are very accurate. Why America?

Jer 50:11 Because ye were glad, because ye rejoiced, O ye destroyers of mine heritage, because ye are grown fat as the heifer at grass, and bellow as bulls;

Jer 50:12 Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.

America is the only nation on earth that qualifies in these scriptures. It is the hindermost of the nations. When the prophet Jeremiah was looking forward, at the daughter of Babylon, he declared it to be the youngest nation among many nations, toward the end of time. America is only a couple of centuries old, and the day of the Lord is close at hand. The New World Order of all nations that will arise from America's ashes is an all together different beast that is not addressed in this message.

Another important thing for which only America qualifies, is "your mother shall be sore confounded, she that bare you shall be ashamed." America is the only nation that has a mother that is still around to witness this event. England will witness here daughter's judgment, as will as her other young lions, mentioned in Ezekiel 38.

Jer 50:13 Because of the wrath of the LORD it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be wholly desolate: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues.

Jer 50:14 Put yourselves in array against Babylon round about: all ye that bend the bow, shoot at her, spare no arrows: for she hath sinned against the LORD.

Jer 50:15 Shout against her round about: she hath given her hand: her foundations are fallen, her walls are thrown down: for it is the vengeance of the LORD: take vengeance upon her; as she hath done, do unto her.

Jer 50:16 Cut off the sower from Babylon, and him that handleth the sickle in the time of harvest: for fear of the oppressing sword they shall turn every one to his people, and they shall flee every one to his own land.

The prophet Jeremiah is exposing the other pieces on the chessboard. The destruction of America's borders from the coastlines is exactly what was seen in the visions of Henry Gruver. Not only will her unwalled villages in the midst of her be pillaged, but her borders and the great cities there will be utterly burned with weapons of mass distruction. The wise folks in the cities and villages still standing, will return to their own native lands.

Jer 50:23 How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!

Jer 50:24 I have laid a snare for thee, and thou art also taken, O Babylon, and thou wast not aware: thou art found, and also caught, because thou hast striven against the LORD.

Jer 50:25 The LORD hath opened his armoury, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation: for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts in the land of the Chaldeans.

Jer 50:26 Come against her from the utmost border, open her storehouses: cast her up as heaps, and destroy her utterly: let nothing of her be left.

Jer 50:27 Slay all her bullocks; let them go down to the slaughter: woe unto them! for their day is come, the time of their visitation.

Jer 50:29 Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.

Jer 50:30 Therefore shall her young men fall in the streets, and all her men of war shall be cut off in that day, saith the LORD.

Jer 50:46 At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is heard among the nations.

Look also at some key verses in Jeremiah chapter 51 and then look at Revelation. Try to commit Jeremiah 51:7 to memory, and see this again in Revelation 17.

Jer 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

Jer 51:13 O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.

The American culture has become the culture of covetousness.

Jer 51:25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Jer 51:53 Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she should fortify the height of her strength, yet from me shall spoilers come unto her, saith the LORD.

The bible mentions 3 heavenS, plural. The first heaven is the air where the birds fly. The second heaven is outer space. The 3rd heaven is extradimentional and is where the throne of the Lord sits. Now, for the first time, in all of earth's history is an army able to mount up to heaven. We have jet airplanes, and we are even mounting up in outer space. The scripture defines the time period and America's power, LITERALLY.

Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she should fortify the height of her strength, yet from me shall spoilers come unto her, saith the LORD.


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Who is the great Whore in Revelation?

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Remember Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Scarlet is the color for royalty, dominion, principality, ruler or king. The beast is the UN world governance that dominates the seven mountains or 7 continents, and 7 seas. Many have also seen the parallel with Rome, as the Babylon of confusion in religion. The 10 horns are possibly the 10 regions that the UN regions are divided into and their ruling principalities. It is also interesting to note the symbol of the WTO, World Trade Organization is 10 Horns. America initiated the UN, and the UN headquarters is located in the capitol city of the nation of Babylon. It is New York City, Babylon, that great city.

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

The woman is the mystery. The mystery is Babylon the Great. Babylon the Great is that Great City. And it is New York, the UN headquarter, capitol city, of Babylon the Nation, America. .

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Before the word continent was added to the English vocabulary, the word mountain also defined a continent. There are 7 continents on earth. There are 7 seas. The Lord's number 7 may be found on many things.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

We have really chosen an excellent symbol for this nation, the Statue of Liberty. The 7 horns on Lady Liberty's crown, represent the 7 continents and the 7 seas. The Statue of Liberty is not an original symbol. It goes all the way back to the mystery religions of Babylon, to the godess Isis, queen of Babylon, to the godess Libertos, godess of Liberty, and the godess of Reason.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

America is that whore, the woman that rides the beast. In one day she will burn.

Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The nations will sacrifice their soverignty for order to stop the chaos, from the peace that was taken from the earth.

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

In Revelation chapter 18, is the judgment of Babylon the City, New York City, the economic capital of the world.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

Rev 18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

Rev 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

Rev 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.


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Babylon America Questions & Answers:

Eccl 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

How do we know what Babylon is in scripture?

Some prophecies have dual or multi-time fulfillments. The Lord is not constrained by linear time. The Lord is not bound by the physics of the laws which He set up to govern His creation. The Lord can easily accomplish this mind boggling and incredibly complex orchestration. More specifically, how do we identify OUR Babylon in scripture? Any mention of the Day of the Lord, the Latter Days, the End of Days, The Last Days before the day of vengeance of The Lord Jesus. That Babylon is our Babylon America, the daughter of Babylon. Here is an example:

Isa 13:4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle.

Isa 13:5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.

Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

Isa 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Isa 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see.

We know that is reference to America because in verse 6 it says: Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand;

Question: How does America Geographically qualify for the role of Babylon?

According to scripture, Babylon's destroying enemy is from a far country, from the North, and the end of heaven. On a globe, trace from the United States, straight up north and across the pole, to the other end of the globe. Your finger will now be in Russia. Also, the end of days Babylon must sit upon many waters and have deep water ports around her coast lines, for the merchant sailors to stand afar off and bewail her. It is also interesting if you go to Yahoo maps or any of the internet search engines and type in "Babylon, New York" - surprise there is even a literal Babylon, New York, right on the coast line.

Question: Isn't Russia our friend now? What about their reforms?

No.

America has been disarming and sending aid money to the Russian republics. They have been using the US aid money to build and modernize their arsenal. How ironic. There is a reason almost all of the world chess champions, are Russians. Chess is a game of patience and strategy. America has become incompetent in her complacency, lacking both patience and the comprehension of strategy. Lady Liberty will be blown out of the water and she will not even know what hit her. Research the men who are in charge of the new "democratic" Russian republics. Most are hard core Soviets who were trained at the school of Lenin. It is like putting some retired grand wizards of the Ku Klux Klan in charge of the United Negro College Fund.

Here is what former US secretary of defense, in the Regan administration, Frank C. Carlucci, had to say. "If the United States and our allies are to maintain the defense required to safeguard our peace and freedoms, we must have a clear understanding of the threat posed, by the military capabilities and doctrine of the Soviet Union. As reported in Soviet Military Power in 1988, neither Glasnost, nor the stirrings of economic reform within the Soviet Union has resulted in any redirection of resources, away from the armed forces of the USSR. Soviet strategic nuclear forces, land, sea, and air, continue to be upgraded. Soviet strategic defenses, INCLUDING a ballistic missile defense system around Moscow, continue to be upgraded. The across the board modernization of soviet conventional forces, tanks, artillery, fighter aircraft, surface warships, and submarines, marks an UNPRECEDENTED INCREASE IN SOVIET MILITARY CAPABILITY."

Question for the Bible Scholars - What about Iraq rebuilding around the ruins of the old Babylon from Nebuchadnezzar's time period? Could Iraq be the nation and Baghdad be the city in Revelation 18 that is destroyed?

No.

ONLY IF YOU IGNORE 80% OF THE FACTS GIVEN IN THE BIBLE that identifies Babylon as the Lady of the Kingdoms.

Is Baghdad the economic center of the world, or is New York, Wall Street?

Does Iraq have a deep water port for merchant sailors to bewail it from?

Does Iraq have multiple deep water ports along its coast lines?

Does Iraq have the Largest IDOL in the world crafted by mystery religion secret society freemasons in its harbor?

Did Iraq initiate the United Nations world governance?

Is Iraq the world's policeman?

Is Iraq known for its cattle, and goods, and fine merchandise, and delicacies, and pharmaceuticals, AKA sorceries?

Is Iraq at rest and dwelling carelessly?

Does Iraq have people gathered from all the nations in it?

Was there a WORLD Trade Center reduced to ash in Baghdad, or was that New York?

There are other scholars who think that end times Babylon is Rome, or the EU, or Russia, or Israel. I find no fault with those who see the Babylon confusion of world religion under Rome's antichrist false prophet pope. However, just see how it fits to replace any of those in the above list of questions about Iraq. You will get the understanding.

Question - Could the upcoming New Word Order be Babylon?

No.

Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

The antichrist new world order governance will be far more dreadful than any of the Babylonian nations throughout history. Study Daniel and Revelation to find out what is going to come after America's Judgment.

If you understand that America is Babylon, then another important question is - WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?

Zec 8:16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:

Zec 8:17 And let none of you imagine evil in your hearts against his neighbour; and love no false oath: for all these are things that I hate, saith the LORD.

Zec 2:7 Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.

Jer 50:8 Remove out of the midst of Babylon, and go forth out of the land of the Chaldeans, and be as the he goats before the flocks.

IMPORTANT - DO NOT FIGHT AGAINST YOUR AGGRESSORS.

Jer 51:1 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind;

Jer 51:2 And will send unto Babylon fanners, that shall fan her, and shall empty her land: for in the day of trouble they shall be against her round about.

Jer 51:29 And the land shall tremble and sorrow: for every purpose of the LORD shall be performed against Babylon, to make the land of Babylon a desolation without an inhabitant.

Jer 51:45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD.

Jer 51:50 Ye that have escaped the sword, go away, stand not still: remember the LORD afar off, and let Jerusalem come into your mind.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

MOST IMPORTANTLY - SEEK THE LORD WHILE HE MAY YET BE FOUND. CAN GRACE BE FOUND TO REPENT?

Zep 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.


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America has the spirit of Egypt. The truth about the Statue of Liberty, the world's largest idol, needs to be told.

This will be the last part of The Message. You are encouraged to listen to the visions which were given to Henry Gruver. Those messages may be heard upon request in the GJiGT paltalk groups.

Eccl 3:15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

Isa 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

Isa 30:2 That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt!

Isa 30:3 Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion.

The Statue of Liberty's designer, French Freemason, Frederick August Bertoldi, once boasted that his creation would last as long as the Pyramids of the Nile. The seven spikes of Liberty's crown represent the seven continents and seven seas of the world. This was a Freemason project, linked to the builders of the Pyramids. Freemasons designed the dollar bill. Freemasons planned the Washington monument and laid out the whole city of Washington in Luciferian, occult symbols. The Luciferian Masonic symbols are what the Statue of Liberty is really all about.

To see the fruits of true Illuminism, what the antichrist mystery religions of Lucifer, are all about, look at the French Revolution. Illuminism is what drove the French Revolution. That is what Illuminism is, antichristian doctrine, and a reign of terror. The guillotine took many thousands of lives in this bloody antichrist Luciferian mystery religion revolution. The unbridled killing and terror is what Illuminism is really all about. Jesus told us clearly that Lucifer, Satan, the devil, comes only to steal, kill, and destroy.

The French Revolution culminated in an event where they desecrated Notre Dame cathedral. They enthroned a half naked prostitute on the high altar, and crowned her as the goddess of reason. The torch in her hand, is the light of Lucifer. Believe it or not, this is the origins of the Statue of Liberty. That statue was designed and built by French Freemasons and given as a gift to American Freemasons. It still stands as the largest Luciferian idol in the world. It is not a nice symbol. It is a symbol of the goddess of witchcraft, holding aloft the light of Lucifer.

Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

ALARM - Ho Ho?

Ho, Ho, only Zechariah uses this word twice.

Ho - Strongs #H1945 is an interesting word. A VERY interesting word meaning: ALARM, miss this and it will cost you dearly, Oh!, alas, woe, sadly, regrettably, trouble, trial, loss, tragedy.

Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. The Mystery of Iniquity has become full. It is a mystery because what it appears to be is not actually what it is. Mystery Babylon, is Shinar, Zec 5:11 tells us the house of Mystery Babylon is set up here and her image, is set there upon her own base.

Zec 2:6-9 Ho, ho, and flee from the land of the north, saith the L-RD: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the L-RD. Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon. For thus saith the L-RD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye. For, behold, I will shake mine hand upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants: and ye shall know that the L-RD of hosts hath sent me.

The L-rd is Again Choosing Jerusalem. The L-rd is Raising Up JUDAH, His Portion. The L-rd is NOW gathering Israel.

The 4 horns are finished. The 4 horns scattering and shaming is finished. The 4 horns = Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu, and Barak.

Zechariah 1:18-21 NOW! NOW time for 4 carpenters (The L-rd's Wrecking Crew - skilled with hammer, crowbar, and wrecking bar) to tear down political and religious corruption in Israel.

Very soon, G-d Himself will save a whole nation in the Greatest Pentecost ever. The door of grace is closing on reprobate Gentiles who MOCK the Royal Law, the Everlasting Covenant, of G-d Almighty with His people. (See Rev 12:17, Rev 14:12, and Rev 22:14)

All Israel is about to get filled with the Holy Spirit like the world has never seen. "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the L-RD of hosts." "And the feeblest among them shall be as David, and the house of David shall be as G-d with the Angel of the L-rd before them." Alleluia! Then we will see: John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;

A CURSE is going over the earth, the WHOLE EARTH. The curse is the result of TWO, 2, great sins - STEALING & LYING. Stealing Nations, Stealing souls, Stealing liberty, Stealing freedom, Stealing substance, STEALING LIFE. Lying, False Swearing. Saying the L-rd said and the L-rd hath NOT said. Saying the L-rd hath sent, and the L-rd hath NOT sent. Preaching FALSE Messiahs, the Easy Jesus, the Nice Jesus, the Non-Jewish Jesus, the Prosperity Jesus, the Pretended signs & wonders Jesus, and the Final Impostor Jesus, a.k.a. the Anti-Christ prince. Preaching and exporting a counterfeit Holy Ghost who does not empower one to Love the L-rd, Cleave to the L-rd, and Obey the L-rd and delight to walk in His Royal Law. All will soon be measured by a plumbline. G-d KNOWS the thoughts and the INTENTS of our hearts. Often we do NOT know the INTENTS of our heart and the Word of G-d is the only means by which we may discern the INTENTS of our own heart.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

G-d sees every secret sin. G-d knows every wicked thought. G-d knows the corruption in every heart.

Can repentance be found? Personal repentance, possibly, and that only by the grace of God through the Lord Jesus Christ. Sadly, the truth is that the time for the possibility for national repentance is past. The time left when one might find grace for personal repentance is very short indeed. If one were to think they have no need of repentance, know this to be the most serious and desperate of all deceptions.
 
I quit reading after your interpretation of Daniel 7.

Do you not see the link with Daniel 2, the golden image?

The same four kingdoms portrayed in Daniel 2 is the same as the beasts in Daniel 7.

The head of gold was Babylon and Daniel said that the next three kings after it were represented by the rest.

The lion (which was a symbol of Babylon) was Babylon, the bear, Medo-Persia, the leopard with 4 heads and four wings Greece (remember the swiftness Alexander conquered the world and his empire was divided amongst his four generals?) and the beast with iron teeth is Rome, the most powerful out of all of them. Rome was called the Iron Kingdom and the 10 horns (which are the ten toes of the statue) are the tribes of Europe.

Daniel needs to be interpreted with the thought and relevance of its day. Notice that the Ram and Goat are identified as Medo-Persia and Greece also?

You are being waaaaay to futurist in your interpretation, Geo. And to take your interpretation is to ignore the historical and biblical context and parallel with each other.
 
guibox said:
So the RCC is the false-prophet but not the anti-Christ or the second beast. I thought you had said that you felt the RCC was the second beast? You haven't really shown how it fits either. I'm very confused, Vic... :-?
The second beast and the false prophet are one in the same. (Revelation 13:11, Revelation 16:13 and Revelation 19:20 There is only reference to him being "another beast". (Revelation 13:11) All beast references from that verse to 16:11 refer the the first beast. The second beast reappears in Revelation 16:11

I didn't think I had to explain why the RCC could be the False prophet. There is about 1,000,000,000 catholics in the world. It would be so easy for them to get people to do the will of the antichrist. And if others see them doing it.....

And who do you think the dragon and the first beast are then?
The dragon is Satan (Revelation 12:9) and the first beast is antichrist. (Revelation 13:4)

Why don't you think that the whore of Babylon is the RCC? This is what the Reformers believed and it fits. A woman is symbolic of a church. The harlot is a church with false doctrine (wine). She is drunk on the blood of the saints (persecution and murder of millions of saints throughout its history) and is decked out in jewels and fine linens (pomp and wealth of the papacy).
The whore. Do a word search of the OT for "Harlot". You will find it 36 times. (KJ) A good portion of the times it is describing Jerusalem or Israel. Take note of the colors and gems they were adorned with. The Jews also have a history of persecuting the saints as well. The most important ones at that. They even killed their own prophets. They are referred to as "woman" many times throughout the Bible.
 
In case someone missed the initial line, that's from a link
I posted here. It is not my interpretation. Although part of
it was revealed to me the very first time I read the Bible
(New York City is that great city without even the hint of
a doubt).
 
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