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America in Prophecy

This should do it.

Hal Lindsey Hal Lindsey WND Exclusive Commentary America in prophecy

© 2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Last night I inaugurated my new radio talk show in Los Angeles. When we opened the phones for questions, the first three callers asked the same question: "Where is America in Bible prophecy?"

This is a difficult question, mostly because it has such a difficult answer. I love my country, and I'd love to find references to it in the last days. But it isn't there. And that seems to be quite a mystery, given that we are at the moment the most powerful nation on earth, by every conceivable measure.

There are some who try and find America in Scripture. I'll outline a few of these views for you.

America, the wide and smooth?
Some point to Isaiah 18, which speaks of a people "tall and smooth" who are "feared far and wide." The passage says these people are "a powerful nation whose land the rivers divide" that will one day bring gifts to the Messiah when He reigns from Mount Zion.

Those who hold this view, point to the fact the United States is divided by the Mississippi, to America's power and say we are the people "feared far and wide" of whom Isaiah was speaking. But this view only works if you ignore the first verse of Chapter 18. It clearly identifies the powerful nation divided by a river as Cush, or Ethiopia. At the time of Isaiah, Ethiopia was part of the Egyptian empire and the river referred to is without doubt the Nile.

Tarshing America
Another view says that America is identified by the prophet Ezekiel in Ezekiel 38:13. Ezekiel speaks of the "merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions thereof" who launch a diplomatic protest at the time of the Gog-Magog invasion of Israel. Some point to the fact that Tarshish was the westernmost trading and seafaring nation of the ancient world. From there, Tarshish becomes Britain. After all, Britain is the westernmost point on the Continent. And the symbol of Britain is a lion. Consequently, "all the young lions thereof" become the former British colonies, like Australia, Canada and, of course, the United States. Therefore, ipso facto, the merchants of Tarshish and all the young lions thereof must be referring to America.

But this doesn't work, either. First and foremost, nobody can pinpoint with any degree of accuracy the location of Tarshish. The only thing we are sure of is that it isn't Britain. The most recent archeological evidence puts ancient Tarshish in Spain, which, while close, doesn't quite win the cigar.

The eagle has landed
Another popular candidate for a biblical America is found in Revelation 12:13-17. In this exercise in applied imagination, we can find America, and she is busily engaged in an heroic effort to save Israel. If you accept the interpretation that includes America, that is.

This passage states that during the Tribulation, God will provide a means of escape for the Jewish remnant in Israel. It says they will be carried into the wilderness on the "wings of a great eagle." Misinterpreting this verse makes it possible to have the United States supplying a military airlift of Israelis to safety -- on the "wings of an eagle." You can make this work only by ignoring the fact that Scripture interprets Scripture. And the Scripture already identifies who has the wings of an eagle.

In Deuteronomy 32:11, God identifies the bearer of Israel on eagles' wings. "As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad on her wings, taketh them, and beareth them on her wings, So the Lord alone did lead him [Israel] and there was no strange god with him." It is a nice picture, and in keeping with our own self-image, to see America as Israel's savior during the Tribulation. But it is clearly incorrect.

Babylon, N.Y.
Probably the most widely accepted explanation of America in Bible prophecy uses Revelation Chapter 18 to show that the United States is really "Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots." The reason this symbol is the most widely accepted symbol of the United States is because the shoe seems to fit. Consider the evidence offered in support of this view, because it is compelling. Revelation 18:2 opens with the angelic declaration that "Babylon the Great is fallen." Verse 3 describes Babylon the great thusly: "all the nations of the earth have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornications with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies." This doesn't seem to be much of a reach, on first glance.

America has sunk to moral depths scarcely imaginable a generation ago. We kill babies in the womb when they are socially inconvenient. The nuclear family is all but extinct. Morals are situational, if they are relevant at all. We choose as entertainment stories about adultery, fornication, violence and virtually every form of evil. We are the world's leading exporters of filth and pornography, not to mention being the world's largest arms dealer and exporter of destruction and mayhem. Politically, we have just emerged from eight years of the most shameful and immoral leadership the United States has ever been subjected to.

Not America's vision
The description goes on, referencing the fact she "sits as a queen and no widow." One could argue the U.S. sits as a queen (it's probably more politically correct than a king, anyway) and no widow, as America has seen no war on her shores in living memory. Since the Apostle John also refers to the fact that "ships and sailors and as many as trade by sea" will see the city burning, this view makes New York City Babylon the Great. The original Babylon still stands, in Iraq, but nowhere near the sea. And, just outside New York City is the city of Babylon, N.Y.! So, there you have it! And it all seems to make sense, really. Provided you are looking at prophecy as if it were given from the perspective of Washington. But it isn't.

In Bible prophecy everything orients from Israel. John's vision of the apocalypse is from the perspective of Israel, during the time of Jacob's trouble, not America's. But the most conclusive reason is given in Revelation 17:18. John says Mystery Babylon is really a woman -- that great harlot who will reign over the cities from earth. But John wrote that the great city was clearly Rome, and that is the city that will reign over the earth in the last days.

I can imagine the heaps of criticism this column will engender.

America faces threats from mad bombers, mad dictators, a unified Russian-Chinese military adversary and a host of other threats. Who wants to be the one to say that, biblically speaking, there is no reason to think one of them isn't going to happen? But America is not a major player in the last days -- she hasn't even a bit part. I personally believe that one explanation could be that our country and its leadership will be so decimated following the Rapture that we will simply cease to be a major influence overnight.

I prefer that over the alternative.

Hal Lindsey is the best-selling author of 20 books, including "Late Great Planet Earth." He writes this weekly column exclusively for WorldNetDaily.

Be sure to visit his website where he provides up-to-the-minute analysis of today's world events in the light of ancient prophecies.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22651
 
You can visit Hal's site if you like... as for me..... :-D

The eagle has landed
Another popular candidate for a biblical America is found in Revelation 12:13-17. In this exercise in applied imagination, we can find America, and she is busily engaged in an heroic effort to save Israel. If you accept the interpretation that includes America, that is.
God may have something different to say about that;

Hosea 2:14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
 
"Rome only" interpretation is not the full picture, people that
say this leave out the economical aspect The religious center
will be undoubtly Rome, but it does not qualify for anything else.

You maybe have to be an international merchant yourself that
has been "everywhere" and knows the center of it all, to easier
appreciate how well it fits NYC.

Another common error is when Europe is identified as the "10".
That's nonsense, the "10" will get formed AFTER the Ezekiel war
and Europe will only be one out of the 10. The last Roman Empire
will be global, Anti-christ will rearrange global politics beyond current
country sovereignities and even change the way we count time
(to eliminate the year reference to Jesus Christ).
 
Geo said:
Another common error is when Europe is identified as the "10".
That's nonsense, the "10" will get formed AFTER the Ezekiel war
and Europe will only be one out of the 10. The last Roman Empire
will be global, Anti-christ will rearrange global politics beyond current
country sovereignities and even change the way we count time
(to eliminate the year reference to Jesus Christ).
I too believe it is not "all" Europe.

About changing time...

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

It's already begun with the acronyms BCE and CE (before common era and common era) I refuse to use them. I will always be a BC/AD kind of guy. ;-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is sort of a side topic question, but...

What would you all do IF a mandatory Sunday law for worshipping was instituted?
 
About changing time...

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

As I'm an end times / Israel kind of guy....I see that the False Messiah (don't care for the less accurate term "Antichrist") as the subject type for which Antiochus Epiphanes was the antetype in representation.

Just as Antiochus Epiphanes changed the "Mosaic Law" and "Religious Time (feast day events)" in his day, so too will the future False Messiah do when he sits in the Temple at Jerusalem proclaiming himself to be God. He will change the Jewish religious law and calendar events.....

Mainstream Christianity hasn't picked up on that yet because there is no Temple in Jerusalem (yet) for this to happen to.....but when the Temple construction begins.......watch out.


This will be an Israel and surrounding area event.....I wouldn't be surprised if the False Prophet didn't call fire down on Mt. Carmel just like Elijah did. I wouldn't be surpised if the False Prohets name was Elijah (as in a false Elijah). Why? Because the Jewish nation is expecting it......

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, (False Prophet who announces the False Messiah).


1Ki 18:36 And it came to pass at [the time of] the offering of the [evening] sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou [art] God in Israel, and [that] I [am] thy servant, and [that] I have done all these things at thy word.


1Ki 18:37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou [art] the LORD God, and [that] thou hast turned their heart back again.

Elijah Announces the arrival of Messiah.....
 
Also,

I do think that the USA is a prime candidate for "Spiritual Babylon".

There are many similarities to the descriptions of OT Babylon, and the USA.


An obscure one is this......

At the time of the penning of both Isa and Revelation (both have "Babylon has fallen" verses), Babylon had more Jews in it's population than the country of Israel had.


Today, just as Babylon back then, the USA has a larger Jewish population than the present Jewish population of Israel.

And,

Babylon was both a city and a kingdom......Hypothetically, Babylon (NYC) and Babylon (USA) could be termed as one.
 
As I'm an end times / Israel kind of guy....I see that the False Messiah (don't care for the less accurate term "Antichrist") as the subject type for which Antiochus Epiphanes was the antetype in representation.
Bingo. The Maccabees books are a great source of history.

As for the "Babylon" thingy, I'm still not sold on it being anything other that Jerusalem. The simaliarities are striking, from a Biblical perspective, from the seven hills to the seven "rulers" that have sucumbed Israel and it's great city to the colors and gems they wore possessed throught history to the ten "horns" that hated "her". Couple that with the fact that Jews by the thousands are flocking to their nation of heritage.
 
Think global. This not a local issue, it's talking about a ruler
and a power system that will rule the world.

You can not build a trade center in a decade, this HAS to excist
prior to last days changes. Neither Rome nor Jerusalem can get
into that position that NYC has in under 50 years.

Jim, the writer of the long article discerns correctly when he says:
"Before the word continent was added to the English vocabulary,
the word mountain also defined a continent. There are 7 continents
on earth."

It's again the global view where the seat of the U.N. has to be considered
when looking at the way the global system is formed in our current time.
( i.e. it's not the US that objects Syria, it's the U.N. inquiry that's
respected. It's not the US or EU that hammers on Iran, it's the U.N.
resolution that is consequential and respected)

It's true, scripture comes first, then the next thing you have to do is
understand current global political affairs and economics to find
scripture in our every day life. It's not all a mind exercise that has
no "real world" counterpart.

Another thing just got re-confirmed by the "normal news":
We've seen the waves Sharon made the last days, now Peres follows.
These men have only 1 (one) goal they want to achieve, to empty
the Westbank from Jews and than split Jerusalem, so the temple
can get build where 3 faiths will worship before AC will go to sit there.

So much for the "US supports Israel" theory, an assesment of poor
understanding. None of the roadmap people supports the real Israel,
Bush-Clinton-Bush, (Arafat+), Peres, Natanyahu and Sharon all deeply
work AGAINST the real Israel, they want to split and divide the Israel
of the God of the Bible and setup Israel for takeover of Satan's man.
Jerusalem is the goal of it all, "peace map" is the deceptive word used
to silence the blind. For all here that think Revelation is a futuristic
book, you need to open your eyes and ears, you are slumbering.
 
Revelation is a Jewish book centered on the fate of the Jewish people and Jews in spirit (believing Christianity). It is not world wide (per se) although it's effects will be world wide. The events happen centrally to Jerusalem, the apple of God's eye, and the Devils envy. All in my humble opinion.

Mountains are Kingdoms in Jewish prophecy interpretation. I believe that the US has and will support Israel. That is as long as it is a Christian nation. But, what if the USA is removed? Then the only protection for Israel against Spiritual Egypt (EU?), or Spiritual Gog of Magog (Russia/Arab confederacy?) is God.
 
Georges said:
Revelation is a Jewish book centered on the fate of the Jewish people and Jews in spirit (believing Christianity). It is not world wide (per se) although it's effects will be world wide. The events happen centrally to Jerusalem, the apple of God's eye, and the Devils envy. All in my humble opinion.

Mountains are Kingdoms in Jewish prophecy interpretation. I believe that the US has and will support Israel. That is as long as it is a Christian nation. But, what if the USA is removed? Then the only protection for Israel against Spiritual Egypt (EU?), or Spiritual Gog of Magog (Russia/Arab confederacy?) is God.
Profound George. I agree. 8-)

Geo, I onced believed like you do. Then I did that word search in the OT on the word "Harlot". The first thing that came to mind was this:

"If I ever go looking for my heart's desire again, I won't look any further than my own back yard."
(Dorothy:, Wizard of Oz)

and by that, I don't mean the US or NYC. (I say that because NYC is my "backyard". I live 20 miles by air from the City) :-D
 
Yes Georges to the first part, to " the US has and will support Israel"
you have to remove the leaders from the country or you will fall into...
well, let's call it a temporary irritation of view that doesn't support reality
as it actually happens. You see it from below, I saw it from the angle
of the old testament where "dividing of the land" will have an actual
response. You would be surprised about the causality?

and by that, I don't mean the US or NYC. (I say that because NYC is my
"backyard". I live 20 miles by air from the City)

Hmmh, ...ah ok. How about I change it to Seattle then?
In regard to Microsoft and all their earlier Windows versions,
and the later ones that connect to a central computer?


some arguments regarding close but future events cannot
be decided before all the merchants of the world cry about that
city that will burn in one hour.

For the ones that have been mistaken on its identity there
will be NO time to reconsider, except you regard a split
second as time.

[name withheld City] got a warning already, I hope they get another
before the final bang comes.

Do we really understand why all the merchants of the world will cry?
I can tell you because I was one for a long time: The fall of NY will
take the complete stock exchange and global monetary system with it.
Did you ever consider the mark will come voluntarily? Not in this world,
it will come in a moment of utter weakness when the complete global
system is down, it will come as a "necessity" after cash is already gone.

Without Rome or Jerusalem there would still be a dollar, without NY
there will be no more cash, globally. This will trigger "nobody will
buy their merchandise anymore" That's the last thing you will hear
any merchant say in advance. But I say it to you today.

P.S. Without Jerusalem there would be no first or second part of
the time of tribulation. Without NY it will go on as scheduled.

ahh ha, I just got an obscure email that said "tell the time"

mmmh, well, how about I send you to someone else to do that:
http://openheaven.com/forums/forum_post ... =7031&PN=1
 
Think global. This not a local issue, it's talking about a ruler
and a power system that will rule the world.

You can not build a trade center in a decade, this HAS to excist
prior to last days changes. Neither Rome nor Jerusalem can get
into that position that NYC has in under 50 years.
Yes, think globally, but act locally. ;-)

First off, can you show us in the Bible where it says there will be political world domination? I see Daniel saying this:

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Revelation confirms this:

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

There will be a ten "nation" alliance, with just three of the ten directly under the control of Antichrist. I say this time and time again; antichrist is not interested in political world dominance; he wants worldwide "religious" worship... of himself.

If NYC was ever taken out or brought down to a point where the Exchange can't function, don't forget the Chicago Exchange or the Pacific Exchange. They are just as capable of filling in and are probably more advanced too. In order to have an effect on the entire world economy, you would have to cripple the US economy, or take out the entire country. To do that, means you completely take them out of the picture... and out of prophecy, if they even were in there to begin.

I just don't see the US as antichrist; the antichrist has to be one person. A nation can't claim to ge God or Messiah. The US can't be the False Prophet either; no one listens to what the US has to say anymore anyway. LOL I seriously doubt any US city is the Whore either. I'm not willing to disregard a whole bunch of scripture because the likes of Hal Lindsey, LaHaye, the SDA and whoever else is trying to shoehorn the US into prophecy.

I could be wrong... ;-)

BTW, did anyone take the time to word search Harlot in the OT? :-?
 
Vic said:
There will be a ten "nation" alliance, with just three of the ten directly under the control of Antichrist. I say this time and time again; antichrist is not interested in political world dominance; he wants worldwide "religious" worship... of himself.

Vic, i agree that worldwide religious worship is what the Beast is after, but this end most likely will come about by political means. If the beasts are kingdoms and powers, there influence and power is exercised by their laws.

I don't understand why you and others think the anti-Christ is going to be one solitary figure that will come out of nowhere and automatically demand and receive world wide worship. This worship will be gradual and most likely already present. This is why the Catholic Church fits the beast of Revelation and the little horn of Daniel 7.

"And the whole world wondered after the beast"

Do you not realize the power of the papacy with world leaders, even Muslim and 'pagan leaders'? And no other country has made their bed with the papacy more then the US. The anti-Christ will most likely not be some separate entity from the first two beasts but more in conjunction with the beasts' aims and goals, not some 'Omen' Damien like man.

The prophecies are both historical and future. It is the unfolding of history. I think it is so ludicrous the extent the futurists place all the prophecies of both Daniel and Revelation without seeing the historical context according to the times of the writers, writing for a specific people at a specific time.

Vic said:
I just don't see the US as antichrist; the antichrist has to be one person. A nation can't claim to ge God or Messiah. The US can't be the False Prophet either; no one listens to what the US has to say anymore anyway. LOL I seriously doubt any US city is the Whore either. I'm not willing to disregard a whole bunch of scripture because the likes of Hal Lindsey, LaHaye, the SDA and whoever else is trying to shoehorn the US into prophecy.

The beasts are kindoms and powers. The SDA belief is that the US is the second beast which looks like a lamb but speaks like a dragon, it creates an 'image' or 'likeness' of the first beast. The US, like any country 'speaks' through it's laws. We know that the issue is religion and worship. The US was founded on religious freedom and tolerance of religions (looking like a lamb) but there will come a time (nay, we see it even now) that the US will begin to trample on its own constitution in areas of religion and tolerance (speaking like a dragon). The two horns are the basis of the kingdom (civil and religious liberty).

The Papacy has built their reputation on religious intolerance and persecution. The Pope's biggest aim is to bring about worldwide recognition of the Pope as the leader of ALL Christendom. PJP II made this his central focus of his papacy and Benedict is continuing it.

So the 'image' is basically the US (religious right) acting like the Papacy in its religious intolerance. We see this more and more.

Vic said:
I could be wrong... ;-

You know what? We could all be wrong. This is why it bothers me that many Protestants denounces the SDA church as a 'cult' because of our take on some bible prophecy. There are more quack interpretations by many other Protestants that put the most avid 'end time Adventist quack' to shame.

Jack Van Impe, Lindsey and LaHaye for some examples.
 
guibox said:
Vic, i agree that worldwide religious worship is what the Beast is after, but this end most likely will come about by political means. If the beasts are kingdoms and powers, there influence and power is exercised by their laws.
I agree that politics will be the original driving force. As to it becoming global is where we part. The convincing senario is this:

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

They will be swept away by the miracles and wonders, not by brute political force or laws.

I don't understand why you and others think the anti-Christ is going to be one solitary figure that will come out of nowhere and automatically demand and receive world wide worship. This worship will be gradual and most likely already present. This is why the Catholic Church fits the beast of Revelation and the little horn of Daniel 7.
One passage comes to mind.

2 Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

I honestly don't believe the RCC fits all the requirements of antichrist.

Do you not realize the power of the papacy with world leaders, even Muslim and 'pagan leaders'? And no other country has made their bed with the papacy more then the US. The anti-Christ will most likely not be some separate entity from the first two beasts but more in conjunction with the beasts' aims and goals, not some 'Omen' Damien like man.
I most certainly do realize the power they have. I touched on that in my last post to you. I think they are in a perfect position to fulfill the role of False Prophet BECAUSE of the influence.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

I see them perfectly in this role. "And he doeth great wonders". Hmm, apparitions, exorcisms, stigmatas, etc. Praying to images... we have either seen or are seeing all of this already.

The prophecies are both historical and future. It is the unfolding of history. I think it is so ludicrous the extent the futurists place all the prophecies of both Daniel and Revelation without seeing the historical context according to the times of the writers, writing for a specific people at a specific time.
Historical context plays a large part in what I believe about End Times.

The beasts are kindoms and powers. The SDA belief is that the US is the second beast which looks like a lamb but speaks like a dragon, it creates an 'image' or 'likeness' of the first beast. The US, like any country 'speaks' through it's laws. We know that the issue is religion and worship. The US was founded on religious freedom and tolerance of religions (looking like a lamb) but there will come a time (nay, we see it even now) that the US will begin to trample on its own constitution in areas of religion and tolerance (speaking like a dragon). The two horns are the basis of the kingdom (civil and religious liberty).
I see these very same characteristics in the RCC; from a 'religious' perspective, not just a political one.

The Papacy has built their reputation on religious intolerance and persecution. The Pope's biggest aim is to bring about worldwide recognition of the Pope as the leader of ALL Christendom. PJP II made this his central focus of his papacy and Benedict is continuing it.
That may be true in the past but the last pope seemed to be all about unification. Again, this sets him up as the perfect False Prophet.

You know what? We could all be wrong. This is why it bothers me that many Protestants denounces the SDA church as a 'cult' because of our take on some bible prophecy. There are more quack interpretations by many other Protestants that put the most avid 'end time Adventist quack' to shame.

Jack Van Impe, Lindsey and LaHaye for some examples.
Sorry that I lumped the SDA in with them. I do not consider them a cult and thought you should know that.
 
First off, can you show us in the Bible where it says there will be political world domination?

Power in an absolute sense always consists of the 3 aspects
political, economical and religious

The last Roman Empire will not be different here, rather the
conclusion of all.

That there will be kings here as in Revelation 17:12  is the form
only, because how are they all controlled? By the 'Mark' system
that is central to all. This will be the first time in history where
power is absolute, and goes directly from "central control'
to each individual. It's the 'Every dictator's dream' come true.

So "... but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."
will mean in regard to this that the kings will rule with the beast,
but the actual power is central through the 'buy and sell' system
and belongs to the beast. The kings are only the local enforcers.

There are a few things I would want to say to Hal Lindsey:

Hal Lindsey: But America is not a major player in the last days -- she hasn't even a bit part.

Correct. No more king of the west.

But can someone even imagine the world without Bush or other US presidents?
Not me. Bush was clear when he said himself "As long as I'm your president...."
Exactly, no letting go, backing down, or even reconsider.

Hal Lindsey: I personally believe that one explanation could be that our country
and its leadership will be so decimated following the Rapture that we will simply
cease to be a major influence overnight.

Now that's not the rapture of the overcomers in Revelation,
this is rapture-la-la-land. They are not identical.

Hal Lindsey: I prefer that over the alternative.

It's not about personal preference Hal. Now that TBN kicked you off the air,
you are not by contract under any obligation anymore to believe their broad way.
 
Power in an absolute sense always consists of the 3 aspects
political, economical and religious
Thinking about it, you have something there.

Hal Lindsey: But America is not a major player in the last days -- she hasn't even a bit part.
Amazing, I actually agree with Hal's first statement. I don't think America is, but I think it's people will be players. Pawns.
I'm with you on the other ones. 8-)
 
So what is the alternative that Hal Lindsey doesn't prefer?
I found someone that describes it as such:

"The vast majority of Christians in the United States have been taught that
America is simply not in Bible prophecy. No matter where one may turn,
America is not there, either by name or by any form of code name either.
Thus say the host of America's Christian clergy to their flock.
The second thing they are told is that Babylon is NEVER TAUGHT
ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE AS A NATION. Babylon is a SYSTEM,
and most view it as a RELIGIOUS SYSTEM OF SOME SORT.

Prophecy said these views would surface at the time of end. It is the
mark of apostasy to DENY YOUR IDENTITY, YOUR SIN, AND THE TIME
OF YOUR VISITATION. In fact, that is the essence of all apostasy, THE
REJECTION OF SCRIPTURE AS IT APPLIES TO A PERSON, COMMUNITY
OR NATION. It is always SOMEONE ELSE, SOMEWHERE ELSE, AND AT
SOME UNKNOWN "FUTURE TIME". Never is it NOW, US and OUR NATION.

Does it not seem odd to you that America, the GREATEST NATION IN THE
WORLD, the greatest evangelical nation; that took the Gospel of Christ to the
four corners of the world; THE RICHEST NATION ON THE EARTH, who has
given more aid to nations than any other; THE NATION TO HAVE
WON TWO MAJOR WORLD WARS and many others; IS NOT EVEN
MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE? That God would forget a nation that has been
central to the survival of Israel in this age? Not even in a cryptic way?

That is like saying God is blind in one eye, and cannot see out of the other!
It is accusing God of utter negligence! But it is not God who is NEGLIGENT.
It is not God who FORGOT AMERICA in prophecy. It is not God who failed to
paint a picture that was obvious to those that wanted to find it. IT IS NOT GOD,
BUT THE FALSE PROPHETS OF AMERICA WHO HAVE UTTERLY FAILED
THEIR FLOCK. They are DECEIVED, AND THUS ARE DECEIVERS AND
HYPOCRITES, FOR THEY LEAD MILLIONS TO ETERNAL RUIN."

"The Lord also uses the word "MOUNTAIN" to describe a kingdom or nation.
Jeremiah 51 is a prophecy against the nation Babylon. Jeremiah says in 51:25:

"Behold, I am against thee, O DESTROYING MOUNTAIN,
saith the Lord, which destroyest ALL THE EARTH:
and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee,
and roll thee down from the rocks (other nations), and will make thee a
BURNT MOUNTAIN (nation)."

Notice again it is a SINGULAR MOUNTAIN, not MOUNTAINS in the plural.
Notice how the Lord calls BABYLON THE GREAT A MOUNTAIN, and the
other nations are ROCKS. So Babylon, compared to the other NATIONS
OF THE WORLD, is a MOUNTAIN AMONG THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD.
She is again portrayed as the BIGGEST, MOST POWERFUL SINGULAR
NATION IN THE WORLD."
 
Matthew 23:24 Blind guides, straining out the gnat, but swallowing the camel! (LITV)

I think I will stay with using history to foresee the future. I'll let Scripture interpret Scripture wherever and whenever it can. The history and prophecy contained in the Bible does not lead me to believe much of the America in prophecy stuff many people subscribe to. This is because I try to find the answers in the first place one should be looking. Then and only then, if it can't be found there, one either starts looking at extra Biblical sources OR... they either weren't looking in the right places or were asking the wrong questions.

Just my opinion.


Oh, I could be wrong, but wasn't it David that overcame the Giant? 8-)
 
I think his commentary was exactly that scripture does not get
interpreted correctly, and all points that concern America
are misunderstood with a mission.

The scripture is there and does not change, the deception starts
with its false interpretation and its projection onto someone else.

The longer I study the leaders and some of the main influencers
like for example Billy Graham the more it becomes obvious to me,
that something went fundamentaly wrong. But not by accident,
rather by negligence and accepting many compromised
teachings and half true gospels. Someone has to take them
apart or God will.

I think the ones that seek the truth owe it to themselves to do the
big evaluation: http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/ambabmes.htm
take a piece of paper and note on one one side all the scripture that
might be about America and on the other side the scripture that
can posively be ruled out to be about America.

As said in one of the messages in above links "You have 90 days"
 
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