America will burn!

[jasoncran]

I have some verses that made me think America is Mystery Babylon. However, I am ready to change my view if Scripture points me to something else.

Some say Babylon is the end times Jerusalem but reading revelation 11 again will reveal that in v13, the people were afraid and gave glory to God.


However my opinion that Jerusalem is not Mystery Babylon comes from the very nature what Jerusalem is:

• Jer 3:17 "At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
• Zech 1:14 So the angel who spoke with me said to me, "Proclaim, saying, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts: "I am zealous for Jerusalem And for Zion with great zeal.
• Luke 13:34-35 " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen [gathers] her brood under [her] wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until [the time] comes when you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!' "

The Lord God who is zealous for Jerusalem, never gave any prophecy for the total destruction of Jerusalem as mentioned like the one Mystery Babylon.

If you have a concordance, you will easily find several references from Isaiah and Jeremiah for Rev chapter 18. It is also interesting to note that, when God is referring to Babylon, he wasn't referring to a single city but the entire nation. Similarly, when God is referring Jerusalem (e.g., Ezekiel 16), He isn't referring to the Jerusalem City, but the nation Israel.

Similarly, the city Mystery Babylon is also a nation.



US Empire fueled by military industrial complex
You shouldn't be watching the news the US government tells you. If there is no military industrial complex, why there are 700+ military bases around the world?

gee something called a cold war and well whiny countries wanting us to stay there ie germany.

we stayed in germany at the begging of the govt, trade for staying there(they need the money, we dont need the stragetic bases anymore after the pullouts)

but hey what would this SOLDIER know?

 

[felix]

gee something called a cold war and well whiny countries wanting us to stay there ie germany.

we stayed in germany at the begging of the govt, trade for staying there(they need the money, we dont need the stragetic bases anymore after the pullouts)

but hey what would this SOLDIER know?

You didn't get my point? Didn't you?
Chávez says yes to Russian base: So, what's wrong in Russia setting up a nuclear airforce base in Venezuela? Infact Venezuela govt is begging...

 

[jasoncran]

You didn't get my point? Didn't you?
Chávez says yes to Russian base: So, what's wrong in Russia setting up a nuclear base in Venezuela? Infact Venezuela govt is begging...

of course.

russia is hurting for money. i am of the cold war era. we almost did go to war with them.i neither trust them or china.

but..

 

[felix]

of course.

russia is hurting for money. i am of the cold war era. we almost did go to war with them.i neither trust them or china.

but..

but.. US is hurting for power ... without realizing they are funded indirectly by China making US bankrupt.

What the Americans don't realize is 40% of their entire government bills (which includes salary, benefits) are actually paid by other countries including China and Russia by buying US bonds which US is using to run it's own government including all military campaigns.

But, What happens when China stops buying bonds?
That's why, I remembered the prophecy from Dumitru Duduman, where US will invade China.... not because it wants to, ... but without doing it, US can't survive.

 

[Elder Mark]

I have some verses that made me think America is Mystery Babylon. However, I am ready to change my view if Scripture points me to something else.

OK, Felix, this is not the easiest of topics, but I'll give it my best shot:
When you analyze Scripture and most importantly the Book of Revelation, you will see a clear theme there of an apostate Church that prosecuted Christ's Saints through the dark ages for 1260 years. Looking further, you will see that exactly that apostate Church is the key component of Mystery Babylon. The most important identifying mark is that it changed God's law in favor of pagan traditions. (If you want, look up my view on the Sabbath / Sunday issue in other posts). As for the reasoning that "Sabbath" in the fourth Commandment points to specific ceremonial Sabbaths, there's some scriptures further on which make that point invalid.
The ultimate climax seen is God taking justice on this Apostate Church and those that supported her, for her crimes and fornication just before the second coming of Christ, which is also part of what is known as the Battle of Armageddon. Just before this happens the issue of 666 and the Mark of the Beast will be enforced and all will have the choice to bow down to the image made to this Apostate Church or to Worship God only and keep His Commandments. Those who willingly disobey God in favour of bowing down to the commandments of this Church and mystery Babylon, the mother of Harlots, will ultimately receive her Mark and “shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God.”

In Revelation, the Apostle John tells the tale of TWO WOMEN. One is dressed in pure white, revealing the purity of true faith and doctrine. This pure woman of Revelation 12 is committed to Christ. She’s absolutely loyal to Him and her heart burns with a love for Jesus. Nothing can break her loyalty to the One she loves so much. This woman represents all the faithful believers who have loved Jesus Christ, kept His commandments and been obedient to Him down through the ages. Revelation 17 pictures another woman. Now we have the opposite picture. Who is this woman in scarlet riding on a Beast?
Mystery Babylon is a CHURCH: In the Bible a WOMAN symbolizes a CHURCH. This is an extremely important point that must absolutely not be overlooked as it proves beyond all shadow of a doubt that this “WOMAN” with mystery Babylon written upon Her head and riding a Beast (Kingdom) has to be a “Church.” Below are several scriptures that prove this is undeniable fact. The only question that then remains is which Church? Note that an unfaithful Church commits spiritual adultery.


God also refers to Israel as a “Woman” (HER) as it represents the Old Testament Church that brought forth the Man child (Jesus Christ) in Revelation 12. Do not miss this really important point which is that God called Israel a “Harlot” and a “Whore” when she worshipped other gods and committed spiritual adultery. Which Church deleted the Commandment on idolatry and worshipped the SUN and has many pagan traditions? Which Church changed the Sabbath to SUNday in favour of SUN worship? Which Church has the statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral which was originally the statue of the pagan god Jupiter? This statue has had its foot kissed away and replaced several times because of the multitude that have bowed down to this statue and kissed its foot. This is unmistakable idolatry and especially when this was originally a pagan god.
In the following verse you will note that God calls the fourth Commandment “MY” Sabbath.
Exodus 31:13 “Speak you also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily MY Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you.”


Now note the following verse refers to the ceremonial sabbaths and the various feasts days and new moons which were associated with a temporary law that was for Israel only. It is called the Book of the law, Mosaic Law and the ordinances. The term Ceremonial law is also used. Speaking of Israel, note that God calls them HER Sabbaths and HER feast days etc. Israel is all through the Old Testament referred to as a “Woman” (HER) and when she worshipped other gods was called a “Harlot.”


Hosea 2:11 “I will also cause all HER mirth to cease, HER feast days, HER new moons, and HER sabbaths, and all HER solemn feasts.

• Mystery Babylon is a CORRUPT Church: Just as a pure woman represents a pure Church, a corrupt woman represents a corrupt Church. The woman in white is Christ’s bride, the true Church. Revelation 17:1, 15-16 and 19:2 call this second woman a “WHORE” or “HARLOT”, a fallen Church teaching false doctrines.
• Mystery Babylon is a RICH Church: This symbolic wicked woman, this corrupt Church is a rich one with gorgeous display. Revelation 17:4 says she’s “decked with GOLD and PRECIOUS STONES and PEARLS, having a GOLDEN cup in her hand.” Which Church would you say is the richest in the world? (Before you answer, keep in mind, that as we speak, all kinds of ecumenical alliances are formed between the Roman Catholic Church and various Protestant Churches. This would have been unheard of just 20- or 30 years ago...)
• Mystery Babylon is a Church built on SEVEN HILLS or MOUNTAINS: This identification given in Revelation 17:9, is impressive and clear, for ROME is proverbial as “the city built on seven hills.” Webster’s large unabridged dictionary says this under the entry “seven-hilled”: “as, the SEVEN-HILLED CITY, that is, ROME, Italy.” Furthermore, Revelation 17:18 tells John, “The woman whom you saw is that GREAT CITY which reigns over the kings of the earth.” John wrote this using the present tense for the word “reigns” and he knew as well as anyone else that “that great city” was ROME.
• Mystery Babylon is a LARGE, WORLDWIDE Church: She sits on “many WATERS,” explained as being many “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.” Revelation 17:1 and 15. The very word catholic means “universal,” and the Papal Church has the largest, most widespread membership in Christendom.

I can go on for a good while, as there are so many biblical references to who exactly are the 1st and 2nd beast of Revelation 13, as to what exactly is the Mark of the Beast and who is Mystery, Babylon the Great. In my analysis, I stick to what Scripture says. I'm a great fan of Luther and his "Solo Scriptura"

Don't get me wrong; in no way I am attacking any specific person. I do not have anything against my Catholic brothers and sisters. I believe that there are an enormous amount of good and faithful people in the Roman Catholic Church. This is about Church Leadership, about the organization behind the Church, which is deceptive. Any organization or individual who claims to have the power to forgive sins is - as far as I'm concerned - blasphemous... As GOD is the only one with that power.

Please feel free to differ, but don't throw stones. Debate on Biblical grounds. I realize my conviction may not be the most popular one, but it is still my conviction and I believe in all honesty that it is Scriptural truth.

 

[jasoncran]

but.. US is hurting for power ... without realizing they are funded indirectly by China making US bankrupt.

What the Americans don't realize is 40% of their entire government bills (which includes salary, benefits) are actually paid by other countries including China and Russia by buying US bonds which US is using to run it's own government including all military campaigns.

But, What happens when China stops buying bonds?
That's why, I remembered the prophecy from Dumitru Duduman, where US will invade China.... not because it wants to, ... but without doing it, US can't survive.

and pray tell how would that be funded?

 

[felix]

The most important identifying mark is that it changed God's law in favor of pagan traditions. (If you want, look up my view on the Sabbath / Sunday issue in other posts). As for the reasoning that "Sabbath" in the fourth Commandment points to specific ceremonial Sabbaths, there's some scriptures further on which make that point invalid.

Following Sabbath or using any of the Old Covenant is an abomination in the sight of the Lord.

Please refer my post at another thread: http://www.christianforums.net/f18/sabbath-day-sunday-38093/#post564826

 

[Vic C.]

I have some verses that made me think America is Mystery Babylon. However, I am ready to change my view if Scripture points me to something else.

Cool Felix. I'll give you a hint...


The Bible SCREAMS out the name, Jerusalem! Yup. :yes

The USA isn't in Scripture, no matter what the SDA may tell you. ;)


One thing is for sure; Jesus IS physically coming back and those who are around to witness it, will see the true power and glory (and wrath) of The Almighty.

 

[jasoncran]

Following Sabbath or using any of the Old Covenant is an abomination in the sight of the Lord.

Please refer my post at another thread: http://www.christianforums.net/f18/sabbath-day-sunday-38093/#post564826

making it mandatory is.

so you just condemned a ton of believing jews that are called messianic, they dont do pagan holidays that have no origins in the torah/tanakh and the nt.

christmas /easter eggs and valentines etc arent in the bible, some feel those are sinful and dont oblige that. so they look into the feasts and do them but they know its not required.


is it evil to honor the lord with remember him saving isreal from egypt? or the channukah etc.

some dont have an issue, and btw i dont do this but i have a respect for them as they can expound on the ot better then most christians.

 

[felix]

The Bible SCREAMS out the name, Jerusalem! Yup.

Luke 1:32-33 "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end."

If Jerusalem is destroyed, then Christ cannot sit on the throne of David. In Rev 11:15, the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and you can see Jerusalem is not destroyed. Revelation by itself is split into two with chapter 12 in the middle. Half of the events in Chapter 12 had already been happened - e.g, Rev 12:5 which symbolizes birth of Christ but the event in chapter 11 and before are yet to happen.

If Jerusalem is destroyed, then the prophecies of Zechariah 14 will also be wrong.

The USA isn't in Scripture, no matter what the SDA may tell you.

No, I don't believe that cult from the false prophet Elen G. White.

One thing is for sure; Jesus IS physically coming back and those who are around to witness it, will see the true power and glory (and wrath) of The Almighty

:yes

making it mandatory is.

so you just condemned a ton of believing jews that are called messianic, they dont do pagan holidays that have no origins in the torah/tanakh and the nt.

is it evil to honor the lord with remember him saving isreal from egypt? or the channukah etc.

some dont have an issue, and btw i dont do this but i have a respect for them as they can expound on the ot better then most christians.

The right word is 'abomination' because, God divorced her. A divorced wife cannot go to her Husband.

christmas /easter eggs and valentines etc arent in the bible, some feel those are sinful and dont oblige that. so they look into the feasts and do them but they know its not required.

I was never brought up with knowing what easter egg is or valentines. But I do know Jesus wasn't born in 25th Dec and I don't see a problem worshiping Him on that day.

 

[mharold]

OK, Felix, this is not the easiest of topics, but I'll give it my best shot:
When you analyze Scripture and most importantly the Book of Revelation, you will see a clear theme there of an apostate Church that prosecuted Christ's Saints through the dark ages for 1260 years. Looking further, you will see that exactly that apostate Church is the key component of Mystery Babylon. The most important identifying mark is that it changed God's law in favor of pagan traditions. (If you want, look up my view on the Sabbath / Sunday issue in other posts). As for the reasoning that "Sabbath" in the fourth Commandment points to specific ceremonial Sabbaths, there's some scriptures further on which make that point invalid.
The ultimate climax seen is God taking justice on this Apostate Church and those that supported her, for her crimes and fornication just before the second coming of Christ, which is also part of what is known as the Battle of Armageddon. Just before this happens the issue of 666 and the Mark of the Beast will be enforced and all will have the choice to bow down to the image made to this Apostate Church or to Worship God only and keep His Commandments. Those who willingly disobey God in favour of bowing down to the commandments of this Church and mystery Babylon, the mother of Harlots, will ultimately receive her Mark and “shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God.â€

In Revelation, the Apostle John tells the tale of TWO WOMEN. One is dressed in pure white, revealing the purity of true faith and doctrine. This pure woman of Revelation 12 is committed to Christ. She’s absolutely loyal to Him and her heart burns with a love for Jesus. Nothing can break her loyalty to the One she loves so much. This woman represents all the faithful believers who have loved Jesus Christ, kept His commandments and been obedient to Him down through the ages. Revelation 17 pictures another woman. Now we have the opposite picture. Who is this woman in scarlet riding on a Beast?
Mystery Babylon is a CHURCH: In the Bible a WOMAN symbolizes a CHURCH. This is an extremely important point that must absolutely not be overlooked as it proves beyond all shadow of a doubt that this “WOMAN†with mystery Babylon written upon Her head and riding a Beast (Kingdom) has to be a “Church.†Below are several scriptures that prove this is undeniable fact. The only question that then remains is which Church? Note that an unfaithful Church commits spiritual adultery.


God also refers to Israel as a “Woman†(HER) as it represents the Old Testament Church that brought forth the Man child (Jesus Christ) in Revelation 12. Do not miss this really important point which is that God called Israel a “Harlot†and a “Whore†when she worshipped other gods and committed spiritual adultery. Which Church deleted the Commandment on idolatry and worshipped the SUN and has many pagan traditions? Which Church changed the Sabbath to SUNday in favour of SUN worship? Which Church has the statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral which was originally the statue of the pagan god Jupiter? This statue has had its foot kissed away and replaced several times because of the multitude that have bowed down to this statue and kissed its foot. This is unmistakable idolatry and especially when this was originally a pagan god.
In the following verse you will note that God calls the fourth Commandment “MY†Sabbath.
Exodus 31:13 “Speak you also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily MY Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you.â€


Now note the following verse refers to the ceremonial sabbaths and the various feasts days and new moons which were associated with a temporary law that was for Israel only. It is called the Book of the law, Mosaic Law and the ordinances. The term Ceremonial law is also used. Speaking of Israel, note that God calls them HER Sabbaths and HER feast days etc. Israel is all through the Old Testament referred to as a “Woman†(HER) and when she worshipped other gods was called a “Harlot.â€


Hosea 2:11 “I will also cause all HER mirth to cease, HER feast days, HER new moons, and HER sabbaths, and all HER solemn feasts.

• Mystery Babylon is a CORRUPT Church: Just as a pure woman represents a pure Church, a corrupt woman represents a corrupt Church. The woman in white is Christ’s bride, the true Church. Revelation 17:1, 15-16 and 19:2 call this second woman a “WHORE†or “HARLOTâ€, a fallen Church teaching false doctrines.
• Mystery Babylon is a RICH Church: This symbolic wicked woman, this corrupt Church is a rich one with gorgeous display. Revelation 17:4 says she’s “decked with GOLD and PRECIOUS STONES and PEARLS, having a GOLDEN cup in her hand.†Which Church would you say is the richest in the world? (Before you answer, keep in mind, that as we speak, all kinds of ecumenical alliances are formed between the Roman Catholic Church and various Protestant Churches. This would have been unheard of just 20- or 30 years ago...)
• Mystery Babylon is a Church built on SEVEN HILLS or MOUNTAINS: This identification given in Revelation 17:9, is impressive and clear, for ROME is proverbial as “the city built on seven hills.†Webster’s large unabridged dictionary says this under the entry “seven-hilledâ€: “as, the SEVEN-HILLED CITY, that is, ROME, Italy.†Furthermore, Revelation 17:18 tells John, “The woman whom you saw is that GREAT CITY which reigns over the kings of the earth.†John wrote this using the present tense for the word “reigns†and he knew as well as anyone else that “that great city†was ROME.
• Mystery Babylon is a LARGE, WORLDWIDE Church: She sits on “many WATERS,†explained as being many “peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.†Revelation 17:1 and 15. The very word catholic means “universal,†and the Papal Church has the largest, most widespread membership in Christendom.

I can go on for a good while, as there are so many biblical references to who exactly are the 1st and 2nd beast of Revelation 13, as to what exactly is the Mark of the Beast and who is Mystery, Babylon the Great. In my analysis, I stick to what Scripture says. I'm a great fan of Luther and his "Solo Scriptura"

Don't get me wrong; in no way I am attacking any specific person. I do not have anything against my Catholic brothers and sisters. I believe that there are an enormous amount of good and faithful people in the Roman Catholic Church. This is about Church Leadership, about the organization behind the Church, which is deceptive. Any organization or individual who claims to have the power to forgive sins is - as far as I'm concerned - blasphemous... As GOD is the only one with that power.

Please feel free to differ, but don't throw stones. Debate on Biblical grounds. I realize my conviction may not be the most popular one, but it is still my conviction and I believe in all honesty that it is Scriptural truth.

Just to add on Daniel 7:25.....Amen!!!

 

[felix]

Just to add on Daniel 7:25.....Amen!!!

If Mystery Babylon is a church, then it cannot prosecute the true church unless it has an underlying military and political power. Also, church (G1577 ἐκκλησία ekklesia) by itself means called out assembly of citizens or a group of people, not necessarily a 'religious' group.

Hence, Mystery Babylon can only be a nation (or group of nations with same ideologies) which can do prosecution on true believers.

 

[n2thelight]

If Mystery Babylon is a church, then it cannot prosecute the true church unless it has an underlying military and political power. Also, church (G1577 ἐκκλησία ekklesia) by itself means called out assembly of citizens or a group of people, not necessarily a 'religious' group.

Hence, Mystery Babylon can only be a nation (or group of nations with same ideologies) which can do prosecution on true believers.

It is a religious system......the one world religious system that satan forms after the deadly wound to the one world political system.....

 

[jasoncran]

paul was wrong when he said has god forsaken his people?

eventide, and i were discussing that in another thread. God isnt done with isreal. no sir, he set them aside and will deal with them

"ye shall not see me till ye say blessed is he comes in the name of the lord" and that was address to the jewish sanhadrin not gentiles or jews as indivual.

 

[mharold]

If Mystery Babylon is a church, then it cannot prosecute the true church unless it has an underlying military and political power. Also, church (G1577 ἐκκλησία ekklesia) by itself means called out assembly of citizens or a group of people, not necessarily a 'religious' group.

Hence, Mystery Babylon can only be a nation (or group of nations with same ideologies) which can do prosecution on true believers.

You forget that Vatican the same city that hold a lot of politic power with over a billion follower. When a president elected they go see the pope and most kiss his hand. So you tell me I got a billion soldier and the biggest world leaders always coming me to talk politics. Also it look like the lamb and but spoke like a serpent.You can really do the math.

 

[Stormcrow]

I have some verses that made me think America is Mystery Babylon. However, I am ready to change my view if Scripture points me to something else.

and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, "BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."
Revelation 17:5 (NASB)

Hmmmm....who bore any marks on "her" forehead???

36 "You shall also make a plate of pure gold and shall engrave on it, like the engravings of a seal, 'Holy to the Lord.' 37 "You shall fasten it on a blue cord, and it shall be on the turban; it shall be at the front of the turban. 38 "It shall be on Aaron's forehead, and Aaron shall take away the iniquity of the holy things which the sons of Israel consecrate, with regard to all their holy gifts; and it shall always be on his forehead, that they may be accepted before the Lord. Exodus 28:36-38 (NASB)

The Levitical priesthood certainly fits this description. But there's more:

15 ~'It came about, when Pharaoh was stubborn about letting us go, that the Lord killed every firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man and the firstborn of beast. Therefore, I sacrifice to the Lord the males, the first offspring of every womb, but every firstborn of my sons I redeem.' 16 "So it shall serve as a sign on your hand and as phylacteries on your forehead, for with a powerful hand the Lord brought us out of Egypt."
Exodus 13:15-16 (NASB)

Every male born under the Law bore a sign on the forehead of his consecration to God.

God had marked no others "on the forehead" as a sign of their consecration to Him. None. Therefore, the mark "on her forehead" of the woman in Revelation 17 can only be referring to the mark borne by the people of God: the Jews.

So is there anywhere else inspired writers of the Bible call God's chosen "harlots?"

{11} Moreover, he [Libnah] made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to play the harlot and led Judah astray. 2 Chronicles 21:11 (NASB)

{21} How the faithful city [Jerusalem] has become a harlot, She who was full of justice! Righteousness once lodged in her, But now murderers. Isaiah 1:21 (NASB)

Only every time Israel turned its back on God and worshiped idols. Do a search for the word "harlot" in the Old Testament and see how many verses come back calling Israel, Judah, and Jerusalem this.

Israel is the only nation and people in the Bible that had a unique covenant with God from its inception until, that is, Christ comes along and ushers in a new one.

You can read more in the following links:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/who-mystery-babylon-35460/index7.html#post538055

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/who-mystery-babylon-35460/index7.html#post538148

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/who-mystery-babylon-35460/index7.html#post538443

 

[Stormcrow]

Vatican

It is a religious system......the one world religious system that satan forms after the deadly wound to the one world political system.....

Mystery Babylon is a CHURCH

If I hear or read another single lie that "Mystery Babylon" is a church, or is the Vatican, or is the E.U., or New York, or any other such nonsense:

I'M GOING TO TURN INTO THE BEAST AND START BEHEADING PEOPLE, STARTING WITH THE FALSE TEACHERS THAT SPREAD THIS "PLANT FOOD"!!!

There! I feel much better now. Thank you for your attention.

 

[reba]

Really Storm?

 

[Stormcrow]

Really Storm?

Just a little hyperbolic venting. I really do feel much better now. :yes

 

[felix]

You forget that Vatican the same city that hold a lot of politic power with over a billion follower. When a president elected they go see the pope and most kiss his hand. So you tell me I got a billion soldier and the biggest world leaders always coming me to talk politics.

It was once thought Vatican could be the Mystery Babylon, but in reality, the number of Catholics are fast dropping and being overtaken by a new religion called 'atheism'.

Also it look like the lamb and but spoke like a serpent.You can really do the math.

I think this is for the 2nd beast of Rev 13.