American Retirement Plans

[jasonc]

Yes, this is true for a few. Not for the majority though. The majority are better off with a pension plan.



No one insures it. Some city pensions have been trimmed because of this. If there is not enough money in the pension fund to fully fund the pensions, they are not guaranteed. With honest money, its possible to calculate exactly how much should be in the plan. With capricious inflation, anyone can guess any amount.

Pay raises,tax increases are inflation.

 

[jasonc]

Yes, this is true for a few. Not for the majority though. The majority are better off with a pension plan.



No one insures it. Some city pensions have been trimmed because of this. If there is not enough money in the pension fund to fully fund the pensions, they are not guaranteed. With honest money, its possible to calculate exactly how much should be in the plan. With capricious inflation, anyone can guess any amount.

So man can plot and know tommorow?

 

[Michael74]

Neither do cities.

No, of course not. Cities can't calculate future inflation any better than private companies do.

Pay raises,tax increases are inflation.

They are mostly a result of people desperately trying to keep pace with inflation.

So man can plot and know tommorow?

Not with bankers causing dishonest money. Our ancestors used a gold standard to protect them from inflation. There may be better ways to accomplish this, but the important thing is to have honest money extant.

 

[jasonc]

No, of course not. Cities can't calculate future inflation any better than private companies do.



They are mostly a result of people desperately trying to keep pace with inflation.



Not with bankers causing dishonest money. Our ancestors used a gold standard to protect them from inflation. There may be better ways to accomplish this, but the important thing is to have honest money extant.

Uhm,so man can know that you won't divorce, die aND also raises,aND also remarry ?

Yet on the Gold standard,plenty of crashes occured.taxes is greater then your idea of inflation. That's my piont.

 

[Michael74]

Uhm,so man can know that you won't divorce, die aND also raises,aND also remarry ?

Why on earth would a pension plan administrator need to know that?

Yet on the Gold standard,plenty of crashes occured.

Yes, that's true. Then the market came back. The market has always gone up in a roller coaster fashion. That's just the way it is.

...taxes is greater then your idea of inflation. That's my piont.

We at least get services in return for out taxes, such a military protection from foreign despots. Bankers offer nothing useful in return for inflation. Also, income taxes take maybe 20% of a pension annually, leaving 80% for the retiree to spend. Bank inflation takes more each year, so that after 20 or 30 years of retirement the pension only buys half of what it did at the start. This is horrifying bank oppression of their elders.

In the case of a 401k, taxes take nothing for 40 years, then 20% of what a retiree withdraws. Bankers confiscate half of the 401k before a retiree gets to spend one penny, while it is still in the 401k. Then bankers take more each year so that the 401k loses 50% of its value over the course of a retirement, for a grand total of 75% of the 401k's original purchasing power compared to when it was first saved during the worker's first year of working.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I don't understand what you mean by 'bank inflatiion'......could you explain?

 

[Michael74]

I don't understand what you mean by 'bank inflatiion'......could you explain?

Bankers cause inflation via fractional reserve and credit creation.

In effect, bankers confiscate goods from their elders, and loan them out. When it comes time for repayment, bankers pocket the goods, not the elders that bankers took the goods from.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Bankers cause inflation via fractional reserve and credit creation.

I am not sure who you are talking about when you say 'bankers'........

 

[Michael74]

Fractional reserve is when bankers lend out goods that they don't have on deposit at the bank. Credit creation is when bankers confiscate goods from others via inflation.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Fractional reserve is when bankers lend out goods that they don't have on deposit at the bank.

But your typical banker, the person who runs the nearest bank or even the ceo of say Huntington National Bank, has no control over fractional reserve.

confiscate goods from others via inflation.

Maybe you can explain this and give a citation for it.....it is not something I have heard of before......

 

[Michael74]

But your typical banker, the person who runs the nearest bank or even the ceo of say Huntington National Bank, has no control over fractional reserve.

Not the tellers at the window. The executives who loan out more goods than people have deposited at the bank.

Maybe you can explain this and give a citation for it.....it is not something I have heard of before......

If the amount of credit in a nation doubles overnight, prices will double too. It will be twice as many dollars chasing the same number of goods.

 

[Michael74]

Here is a simplified explanation of fractional reserve.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Not the tellers at the window. The executives who loan out more goods than people have deposited at the bank.

The Federal Reserve sets fractional reserve rates not 'bankers'. It is one method to inject/remove money into the economy quickly.

If the amount of credit in a nation doubles overnight, prices will double too. It will be twice as many dollars chasing the same number of goods.

The federal reserve controls the availability of credit by increasing or decreasing the money supply......ie: an increase in the money supply means more money available in the economy and generally easier credit terms. Increasing the amount/availability of credit will only affect prices to the extent that people are willing to use it.

 

[Michael74]

The Federal Reserve sets fractional reserve rates not 'bankers'.

Bankers are the ones who actually carry out the process of lending new funds into existence.

ie: an increase in the money supply means more money available in the economy...

Yes, causing inflation. Double the amount of money, and you double prices. Every dollar of credit a banker creates makes the dollars in your wallet buy less. Bankers are confiscating goods from you.

...to the extent that people are willing to use it.

You can always find spendthrifts willing to spend borrowed money. They won't repay, necessitating yet another future bank bailout, but they will spend. Remember TARP back in 08?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Bankers are the ones who actually carry out the process of lending new funds into existence.

True, but without authority from the Fed they cannot change fractional reserve rates........

Yes, causing inflation. Double the amount of money, and you double prices.

Increasing the money supply can cause inflation but not in a deflating economy (much what we just recently experienced from the last adminstration). In such an economy some inflation is actually welcomed. Neither will you get inflation with a corresponding increase in productivity. There is not such thing as a 1 to 1 correlation in economics on such a large scale.

You can always find spendthrifts willing to spend borrowed money. They won't repay, necessitating yet another future bank bailout, but they will spend.

Yes you will find that on an individual basis as far as borrowing is concerned. Bank bailouts are a political choice not an economic one....go talk to your politicians if you want that changed.

 

[Michael74]

...some inflation is actually welcomed...

Not by the common man, especially the elderly. Inflation is a horrible thing to the elderly. They don't want it or need it.

Neither will you get inflation with a corresponding increase in productivity.

Why should bankers be the only ones who benefit from productivity improvements? A little good deflation is beneficial to the average person, who can buy additional goods at the store.

 

[jasonc]

Why on earth would a pension plan administrator need to know that?



Yes, that's true. Then the market came back. The market has always gone up in a roller coaster fashion. That's just the way it is.



We at least get services in return for out taxes, such a military protection from foreign despots. Bankers offer nothing useful in return for inflation. Also, income taxes take maybe 20% of a pension annually, leaving 80% for the retiree to spend. Bank inflation takes more each year, so that after 20 or 30 years of retirement the pension only buys half of what it did at the start. This is horrifying bank oppression of their elders.

In the case of a 401k, taxes take nothing for 40 years, then 20% of what a retiree withdraws. Bankers confiscate half of the 401k before a retiree gets to spend one penny, while it is still in the 401k. Then bankers take more each year so that the 401k loses 50% of its value over the course of a retirement, for a grand total of 75% of the 401k's original purchasing power compared to when it was first saved during the worker's first year of working.

Ad valorem increases,saless taxes increase,city ,counties fund by also utilities, aND enterprises, hotels,cable ,phone companies are owned by municipal agents

A pension plan upon your death must now where to disburse your money .the point is on the Gold standard the gov't didn't have all these things it does. Inflation isn't high from the feds as you think.does your gas for.your car not have most of it going to the local, state,federal taxes? Yes over 50 percent.

 

[Michael74]

Ad valorem increases,saless taxes increase...

Yes, in a desperate attempt to compensate for bankers confiscating purchasing power from city revenue.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Not by the common man, especially the elderly. Inflation is a horrible thing to the elderly. They don't want it or need it.

Not necessarily. Increasing stock prices, dividends, bond prices, CD interest rates are all caused, in part, by inflation.

Why should bankers be the only ones who benefit from productivity improvements?

Bankers don't, businesses benefit since a worker can produce more widgets for the same or lower price which cuts a business' costs freeing up money to expand, higher more workers, improve pay/benefits, etc.
Just out of curiousity have you ever taken a Micro/Macro economics class?

 

[Michael74]

Jason, take the case of your trust fund. You say it has gone up 400% since 1973. Since 1973 the CPI has gone up 451.3% This means your trust fund lost ground to inflation. It doesn't buy as much today as it did in 1973.