Angels...Halos, Wings and Harps?

[whirlwind]

:angel3

The definition of an angel is...

• Angel ~ #4397 to despatch as a deputy; a messenger, spec. of God, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

That gives a definition of what they do...their role, but what are they? The Lord and two angels visited Abram and then....went on to see Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. :ohmy

• Genesis 18:1-3 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, "My LORD, if now I have found favour in Thy sight, pass not away, I pray Thee fromThy servant:
  
  18:4-5 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant." And they said, "So do, as thou hast said."
  
  18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
  
  18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD,
  
  19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; (3) And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

We read of "angel's food" in [Psalms 78:25] and also learn that Christ ate after His resurrection.

Another interesting fact we are given above is that Lot "bowed himself" to the two angels. This is out of the ordinary for usually when a flesh man does that they are instructed otherwise. Abram bowed but the Lord was with them...here it was just the two angels. An example of this is shown below.

• Revelation 22:8-9 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, "See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God."
  
  Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, "See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Other Scripture that tells us about angels are....

• Revelation 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
  
  Hebrews 1:13-14 But to which of the angels said He at any time, "Sit on My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool"? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
  
  Acts 1:9-10 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
  
  Acts 12:13-15 And as Peter knocked at the door of the gate, a damsel came to hearken, named Rhoda. And when she knew Peter's voice, she opened not the gate for gladness, but ran in, and told how Peter stood before the gate. And they said unto her, "Thou art mad." But she constantly affirmed that it was even so. Then said they, "It is his angel."

Wings and halos? I couldn't find any mention of them. What we are being shown is that they are us...we are them. One in flesh and one in spirit...just as we will be at the end of our flesh life.

 

[Free]

What we are being shown is that they are us...we are them. One in flesh and one in spirit...just as we will be at the end of our flesh life.

You can't seriously mean that angels and humans are the same beings?

 

[researcher]

What we are being shown is that they are us...we are them. One in flesh and one in spirit...just as we will be at the end of our flesh life.

You can't seriously mean that angels and humans are the same beings?

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Rom 8:14 for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God;

 

[Free]

What we are being shown is that they are us...we are them. One in flesh and one in spirit...just as we will be at the end of our flesh life.

You can't seriously mean that angels and humans are the same beings?

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Rom 8:14 for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God;

Not sure what the verses are supposed to provide but it sure isn't support that angels and humans are the same beings. Scripture is absolutely clear that they are distinct from us.

 

[researcher]

The sons of God are angels. And, we are sons of God.

Pretty basic.

 

[Free]

The sons of God are angels. And, we are sons of God.

Pretty basic.

It may seem that way but studying shows that not to be the case.

 

[researcher]

The sons of God are angels. And, we are sons of God.

Pretty basic.

It may seem that way but studying shows that not to be the case.

Or, it could be a case of...
[youtube:280lmkal]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo[/youtube:280lmkal]
:P

 

[researcher]

Luk 20:34 And Jesus said unto them, The sons of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
Luk 20:35 but they that are accounted worthy to attain to that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luk 20:36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

 

[Free]

That verse says nothing of men and angels being the same beings.

 

[Free]

Heb 2:5 Now it was not to angels that God subjected the world to come, of which we are speaking.
Heb 2:6 It has been testified somewhere, "What is man, that you are mindful of him, or the son of man, that you care for him?
Heb 2:7 You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor,
Heb 2:8 putting everything in subjection under his feet." Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

End of story. The verses are numerous against such teaching.

 

[Bick]

I would disagree that "they are us and we are them."

It is true, that many places in the Bible angels looked like ordinary men. But that is only if their glory or radiance was "turned off."

After Christ's resurrection we read in Matt. 28:2 "And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow." KJV

Then in Luke 24:4-5 it is slightly different. The women came to annoint the body with spices and two men suddenly stood by them in shining garments. The women were afraid and bowed down to the ground.

While in the above account, Luke called them "men", in John's account he calls them "angels:"

John 20:11 "But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept. she stooped down, [and looked] into the sepulchre, and seeth two angels in white sitting, one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain." KJV.
Here, evidently not to frighten Mary, it only says they were in white----no"lightning like" appearance.

As for the definition of "angel", which is "aggelos" in the Greek, my Young's concordance lists the word being translated as "angel"--181 times, and "messenger"--7 times. In the KJV it is never translated as anything but "angel" or "messenger."

What are they? They are spirit beings who function as "messengers" for the Lord God;
and Satan as well, for we read of the "fire prepared for the devil and his angels." I take this to mean the "lake of fire" referred to in Revelation.
And in Rev. 12:7-9 it describes a war in heaven where Michael and his angels fight against Satan (the dragon) and his angels, and they were cast out of heaven to the earth.

So, my conclusion is with God's direction they can do most anything: they can look like ordinary men, eat human food, have their feet washed, have bodies of substance to wrestle with Jacob, etc.
Yet, even when appearing as men, they have supernatural power which can be used according to the will of God.

You are right, the halos and the wings and them looking like women are all fantasy, the work of artists.

As for Lot bowing down to them, IMO, that was the custom of the times, to bow as a greeting. It doesn't say he prostrated himself on the ground.

Have you ever been to Japan? Everyone bows when greeting one another.

I find this in the Scriptures concerning the end of this life in the flesh:

We live in this fleshly (soulish) body, but whether we are dead or alive when the Lord comes to meet us in the air, we will be changed to have spiritual bodies. Which, to me, means bodies fit for the celestials where no air is needed, gravity cannot hold us: we will have bodies like unto Christ's glorious body
(1 Cor. 15:35-50).

1 Cor. 15:51-54, "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but will all be changed---in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the moral with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: 'Death has been swallowed up in victory.' "

 

[researcher]

That verse says nothing of men and angels being the same beings.

Sons of God existed before mankind. They are one thing i.e. angels i.e. spirits.

Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them from the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world even as I am not of the world.

Jesus was not from this world. Neither were the disciples. So where were they from?

Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

The word "of" there means "originate" or "from." They did not orginate from this world, i.e., they came from somewhere else.

 

[Free]

That verse says nothing of men and angels being the same beings.

Sons of God existed before mankind. They are one thing i.e. angels i.e. spirits.

Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them from the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world even as I am not of the world.

Jesus was not from this world. Neither were the disciples. So where were they from?

Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

The word "of" there means "originate" or "from." They did not orginate from this world, i.e., they came from somewhere else.

Please tell me you're kidding. That is such a twisting of Scripture that I am speechless. That is Mormon doctrine, not Christian.

 

[researcher]

That verse says nothing of men and angels being the same beings.

Sons of God existed before mankind. They are one thing i.e. angels i.e. spirits.

Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them from the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world even as I am not of the world.

Jesus was not from this world. Neither were the disciples. So where were they from?

Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

The word "of" there means "originate" or "from." They did not orginate from this world, i.e., they came from somewhere else.

Please tell me you're kidding. That is such a twisting of Scripture that I am speechless. That is Mormon doctrine, not Christian.

Mormon? Never heard of it, don't study it.

Read it in the Greek.

Jesus said they were not of this world just as he wasn't. He went on to explain where he was from which was? From above. So do you think the disciples came from below while Jesus came from above? Let's see:

Joh 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

And Jesus later went on to tell these people who were "from beneath"

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil,

 

[Free]

Read it in the Greek.

No, you didn't. You are putting a meaning into the text which isn't there. No man has existed prior to his physically being born, except Jesus, the God-man.

Heb 2:5-9 says it all (as does Bick's post and the numerous other passages in Scripture). Angels are not men and men are not angels.

 

[jasoncran]

reasercher than is the devil a man or a fallen angel, if hes a man that he's immortal and doesnt die? or if hes mortal why cant we kill him, after all he's only a man. Did jesus die for these fallen angels then

jason

 

[researcher]

Read it in the Greek.

No, you didn't. You are putting a meaning into the text which isn't there. No man has existed prior to his physically being born, except Jesus, the God-man.

Heb 2:5-9 says it all (as does Bick's post and the numerous other passages in Scripture). Angels are not men and men are not angels.

I don't believe I specifically said that we existed before, I'll have to go back over my replies to check.

But, if we are sons of God, and sons of God are angels, then, that's what we will be after we are resurrected. Angels are spirits, nothing more, nothing less. We're going to be the same thing, and be able to do everything they can.

As for the wording of the verses:

Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

The words "from," and "of" in that verse are the same Greek word. Here is that verse with Strong's numbers:

Joh 8:23 AndG2532 he saidG2036 unto them,G846 YeG5210 areG2075 from G1537 beneath;G2736 IG1473 amG1510 fromG1537 above:G507 yeG5210 areG2075 ofG1537 thisG5127 world;G2889 IG1473 amG1510 notG3756 of G1537 thisG5127 world.G2889

Notice they both have the same reference number.

Here is the definition from Strong's of that number:

G1537
á¼Âκ, á¼Âξ
ek ex
ek, ex
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence motion or action proceeds), from, out (of place, time or cause; literally or figuratively; direct or remote): - after, among, X are, at betwixt (-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for (-th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, . . . ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with (-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion.

 

[researcher]

reasercher than is the devil a man or a fallen angel, if hes a man that he's immortal and doesnt die? or if hes mortal why cant we kill him, after all he's only a man. Did jesus die for these fallen angels then

jason

Hey Jason.

As far as I know, the Satan is a fallen angel i.e. a spirit. He can inhabit men, and cause them to do things, but I don't believe he is a man per say. If the son of perdition is Satan in the flesh, I suppose that would be Satan's spirit inhabiting a man.

As for Jesus dying for fallen angels:

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

I don't believe that it is possible for fallen angels to be saved.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Read it in the Greek.

No, you didn't. You are putting a meaning into the text which isn't there. No man has existed prior to his physically being born, except Jesus, the God-man.

Heb 2:5-9 says it all (as does Bick's post and the numerous other passages in Scripture). Angels are not men and men are not angels.

AND GOD SAID TO JEREMIAH

5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Funny,,,,you say no man existed prior to physically being born ,,,but here we have God,,,telling a prophet he knew him before his physical birth.....

 

[researcher]

What are they? They are spirit beings who function as "messengers" for the Lord God;

Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Like that one?