Angels

[Classik]

Angels have no free will, so they will behave according to what message or mission God has them doing.

I think angels have free will. How did Lucifer sin? Lucifer and his friends decided to disobey and provoke God. Free will (FW)?

(Maybe after the incident God took their FW away).

 

[CalledToServe]

Please correct me if I am wrong,but an angel IS a mesenger according to Hebrew lexicon. Also, angels DO have free will. Lucifer, the evil one, the devil , the Dragon was an angel of the Lord, "The Angel of the Lord of Lords"...

Am I making this up or is this just SDA lore...

It depends on if you follow Christianity's roots in Judaism. If you do then it would be wrong since Satan or Hashatan is a specific type of angel that means adversary. They function like a prosecuting attorney at judgment and point out the sins you have committed.

Although, in the New Testament there is a shift in how HaShatan operates and that the apostles plus Jesus state that things are different. It's never given into detail in the New Testament.

Just remember, a lot of things we were raised to believe as being scriptural are not, but an absorbed belief from an outside source. We should always keep our eyes on the Lord.

 

[elijah23]

Ministering is a form of delivering a message.



I'll explain it like this, an angel has no free will and is a messenger of God. If an angel has a mission to guard you then the angel is still a messenger of God. The angel is following God's command to guard you and that in itself is a message that you are in the Lord's favor and keeping with His commandments. All things come from God* and the book of Job is a good example of how angels work plus the confines they have to work within. Job has everything taken from him to test his faith in God and to see if he would ever blaspheme Him.

*Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.

Where does it say an angel has no free will, and where does it say an angel's activities are confined to being a messenger of the Lord?

 

[CalledToServe]

Where does it say an angel has no free will, and where does it say an angel's activities are confined to being a messenger of the Lord?

In every instance of where an angel appears in scripture it is shown that they have no choice on what they will do. It does not state implicitly that they don't have free will. In the Book of Enoch it does show angels having free will, but the book is not the inspired Word of God.

 

[elijah23]

In every instance of where an angel appears in scripture it is shown that they have no choice on what they will do. It does not state implicitly that they don't have free will. In the Book of Enoch it does show angels having free will, but the book is not the inspired Word of God.

I suspect angels are people who obey the commandments of the Lord. I think we ourselves should strive to be angels. Check this out:

Bless the LORD, O you his angels,
you mighty ones who do his word,
hearkening to the voice of his word!
Psalms 103:20 RSV

 

[CalledToServe]

I suspect angels are people who obey the commandments of the Lord. I think we ourselves should strive to be angels. Check this out:

Bless the LORD, O you his angels,
you mighty ones who do his word,
hearkening to the voice of his word!
Psalms 103:20 RSV

Scripturally, angels are created beings that possess no natural bodies. The scripture you cite shows that angels are messengers and do not have free will. Remember what Exodus 20:3 says, "“You shall have no other gods before me." What was the major sin of the children of Israel at Mount Sinai? They created a golden calf and worshiped it. Think about it, they were worshiping a cow that is a created creature. As Christians we are to emulate Christ not anything that God has created.

 

[elijah23]

Scripturally, angels are created beings that possess no natural bodies. The scripture you cite shows that angels are messengers and do not have free will. Remember what Exodus 20:3 says, "“You shall have no other gods before me." What was the major sin of the children of Israel at Mount Sinai? They created a golden calf and worshiped it. Think about it, they were worshiping a cow that is a created creature. As Christians we are to emulate Christ not anything that God has created.

The Bible doesn't really say that much about angels, does it? Therefore we don't know much about angels except what we learn in our daily walk with the Lord.

 

[CalledToServe]

The Bible doesn't really say that much about angels, does it? Therefore we don't know much about angels except what we learn in our daily walk with the Lord.

Pretty much and a lot of what we know about angels is based upon pagan religion's thoughts that were absorbed over the past 2,000 years. If you really want to know about angels then read the Book of Enoch, since it is an apocryphal book written around 300 BC. Just keep in mind that the book of Enoch is not the divinely inspired Word of God, but gives you insight into how Jews thought about angels and the workings of heaven.

Linky

 

[lynx]

Pretty much and a lot of what we know about angels is based upon pagan religion's thoughts that were absorbed over the past 2,000 years. If you really want to know about angels then read the Book of Enoch, since it is an apocryphal book written around 300 BC. Just keep in mind that the book of Enoch is not the divinely inspired Word of God, but gives you insight into how Jews thought about angels and the workings of heaven.

Linky

I believe angels are aliens, the good ones, and the fallen angels are aliens too but the bad ones ,like the greys, reptillian, Noridic, they all look different, some look like lizards, some look like human. Nonetheless they are the fallen ones.

Thanks for the link, I am reading it.

 

[handy]

Angels are not aliens, my friend, neither the good nor the bad.

Don't open yourself to deception...

While we don't have detailed reports about who the angels are and why God created them... the Bible does contain enough information about angels for us to know that

a: they are not human at all.. they are not people, obedient or not, nor are they people who have previously lived and are now dead. They are a wholly separate creation.

b: they aren't aliens... grey, lizard or otherwise.

c: the good angels won't tolerate being worshiped or having any glory taken away from God. The bad ones love nothing more than to trip us up in this way.

Anyone can believe what they want... as a matter of fact, people will believe what they want. After 50 years on this planet, and almost 15 years chatting with folks from all over the world, here on the Internet, I have found this to be the truth... that folks aren't as interested in real truth as much as they are interested in believing what they want to believe.

However, I could round up 100, even 1000, perhaps even 1,000,000 people who believe that angels are either aliens or dead people... but that still wouldn't make it true.

Elijah, Lynx... I'm not trying to be harsh here. I'm probably coming off as so, but believe me, I'm not trying to be. But we are commanded... commanded, mind you... to worship God in Spirit and in truth. Therefore, it behooves us to learn the truth about things... even angels, before deciding that we will run with our preconceived "beliefs" about such things. Christians shouldn't be like other folks, believing what they want. Christians are called to adhere to what is true.

Humans are formed in their mother's womb. God has foreknowledge of us, mainly because He doesn't exist in time, but in eternity... However, humans do not exist until that little guy makes it to the egg... that's when we begin. We will live and then we will die. We will be resurrected to face judgment... either entering into the new heaven and earth to live eternally with Christ... or be forever separated from God.

This is the fate of all humans. No one "reincarnates" as an angel.

The angels were created at some point in eternity. They do not marry nor procreate, so we know they are not human. Some of them rejected God and fell, becoming demons. All though, are still subject to God. They are not to be worshiped nor emulated. We need to emulate Christ or, if not him, then at least other truly Godly men, such as Paul who said, "Imitate me as I imitate Christ.."

If we start just "believing" simply because it sounds cool, or David Icke believes it, or we see videos on YouTube about it... then we not only fail to follow Jesus' command to worship God in spirit and in truth, but we open ourselves up to greater and greater deception.

We know that the bible is for our correction and for "reproof"... (many misinterpret this at "reprove" but it's "reproof" that by which a thing is proved or tested) So... use the Bible to ground yourselves in truth, holding any belief to the light of Scripture and be willing to jettison that belief as soon as it starts to contradict what the Bible tells us.

 

[elijah23]

I believe angels are aliens, the good ones, and the fallen angels are aliens too but the bad ones ,like the greys, reptillian, Noridic, they all look different, some look like lizards, some look like human. Nonetheless they are the fallen ones.

Thanks for the link, I am reading it.

I suppose that if there is life on other planets, there could be alien angels.

 

[Fedusenko]

... and where does it say an angel's activities are confined to being a messenger of the Lord?

You misunderstood, the word means messenger. As an Juicer (Electrician on a movie set) I do electrical things on set, but I also do other things such as bring my boss coffee or help a fellow Grip. I imagine it is similar with an angel.

I think the important thing to remember is that just because the bible says "angel" it doesn't mean "androgenous dude with gnarly wings that starches his moomoo when you arn't looking", but any sort of heavenly species.

 

[lynx]

handy,

May be it's time for me to tell my personal experience (kinda) of aliens, why would I believe so strongly their existance.

It is my two elderly relatives. They saw the UFO's in 1947, which is the year of the famous UFO crash in Roswell, New Mexico. Of course that's not enough for us to believe anything and for years, they kept slience until their friend who worked for the state department finally confirmed it last year before she died. Aliens exist and the government has been keeping it as secret for the public.

That's what set me to the journey of searching the answers of what is alien? Who are they? Do they have role in the Bible? Did God created aliens? What are they exactly in all of God's creation? Can I find answers in the Bible too? If aliens exist (no doubt in my mind at this point), does that mean God is not real or it is just something we don't understand about the Bible that we need to understand the bible in a more mordern eyes and different ways in able to know the truth? Have answers to all these questions are especially important to a Christian who can't deny the existance of aliens.

What is your answers to alien existance as Christian?

My answer is, after so many research, that aliens are fallen angels.

 

[lynx]

I suppose that if there is life on other planets, there could be alien angels.

I have opened a thread " Aliens are fallen angels?" in apologetic forum,
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=42309

check it out, there are a lot of informations I put in.

Aliens exist, can you believe we are the only intelligent life exist in this entrie universe? And what are they?

As for angel's duty or behaviors, people often say Guardian Angels, I think angels protect human and guide them to live the life of God or even guide people to work the course of God in our daily life.

I can share you with my story: One day, my husband and I were flying a kite in the backyard. which is quite close to a park, I was holding it, but suddenly something jerk the kite off of me(I felt something) and the kite fly away. Well, I went home, but my husband said he wanted to look for it, because he liked the kite. ( my husband is an athesist). After a while, he came home, very excited, he said he met two Chinese girls who were holding our kite, one is older, the other one is a child, I was exciting too(I am a Chinese and my husband is an American), because where we live rarely have other Chinese people, we met and we become friends, then, a couple month later, my girlfriend asked me about Jesus, she had never interested about Jesus when she was in China, she heard about it but never pay attention. Now, I am passing the gospel to her, brought her a Chinese Bible, introduced her to listen Charles Stanley and she likes it, she feels peace, hope one day she will baptize.

I think it is God's doing on how we met, God want to save her, if the kite didn't jerk away from me, we would've never met. I felt the Holy Spirit present when the kite jerk, and I think it probably the angel too, and the most funniest thing in this event is that God was using my husband--an atheist to help his plan---and my husband didn't even know it. Isn't that amazing?

God and his angels and the Holy Spirit work in our life all the time, I think angels have more duty then just sending messages to human, they do live with us, guard us and guide us.

 

[handy]

Lynx,

There is a world of difference between saying that aliens are nothing more than fallen demons and that angels are aliens.

I've no doubt that some of the deception that demons are practicing involves masquerading as aliens. Even to the point of messing with people's visual persception so as to believe they saw an alien spaceship.

But, that is part of the deception. Demons do like to masquerade as angels of light. I've read accounts of people who believe they've been contacted by aliens who bring messages of enlightenment from other worlds. No, they've been influenced by a demon masquerading as an angel of light.

Take a look at your own questions you bring up, because of the supposed alien sighting of your relatives:

If aliens exist (no doubt in my mind at this point), does that mean God is not real... [Look what you are saying here... no doubts that aliens exist, but perhaps God doesn't]

or it is just something we don't understand about the Bible that we need to understand the bible in a more mordern eyes and different ways in able to know the truth?

Isn't it interesting that your belief in aliens has morphed into questioning God and questioning the validity of the Scriptures.

Do you know that your idea of "understanding the Bible in a more modern (way) in able to know the truth" is exactly what those who now say it's OK to ordain gays and lesbians as ministers say we need to do.

This reminds me of another question once asked of by a demon: Has God really said you shall not eat from any tree in the Garden?

Anytime I hear these kinds of questions that cast doubt on the existence of God and/or the validity of what God has said... I know demons are at work.

By getting you to focus on aliens, you are ceasing to focus on the truth that God freely gives us in His word. Immerse yourself in His word and these other things can take care of themselves.

Seriously Lynx, I'm worried for you... that you will be led astray.

 

[handy]

One day, my husband and I were flying a kite in the backyard. which is quite close to a park, I was holding it, but suddenly something jerk the kite off of me(I felt something) and the kite fly away. Well, I went home, but my husband said he wanted to look for it, because he liked the kite. ( my husband is an athesist). After a while, he came home, very excited, he said he met two Chinese girls who were holding our kite, one is older, the other one is a child, I was exciting too(I am a Chinese and my husband is an American), because where we live rarely have other Chinese people, we met and we become friends, then, a couple month later, my girlfriend asked me about Jesus, she had never interested about Jesus when she was in China, she heard about it but never pay attention. Now, I am passing the gospel to her, brought her a Chinese Bible, introduced her to listen Charles Stanley and she likes it, she feels peace, hope one day she will baptize.

I think it is God's doing on how we met, God want to save her, if the kite didn't jerk away from me, we would've never met. I felt the Holy Spirit present when the kite jerk, and I think it probably the angel too, and the most funniest thing in this event is that God was using my husband--an atheist to help his plan---and my husband didn't even know it. Isn't that amazing?

God and his angels and the Holy Spirit work in our life all the time, I think angels have more duty then just sending messages to human, they do live with us, guard us and guide us.

Now this is far more how God works... both His Spirit and His angels... even to the point of using an athiest to help His plan.

 

[lynx]

Lynx,


If aliens exist (no doubt in my mind at this point), does that mean God is not real... [Look what you are saying here... no doubts that aliens exist, but perhaps God doesn't]

This is a question that a lot of people will ask, no matter is Christians, Cathlics, Hindu, atheists, the rich, poor, leaders....etc, espectially now with so much UFOs phenomenon and aliens abduction reports. It is a vaild quesion to many people, espectially athiests. I don't think people should approach this with denial or escape, we should do research and study the whole thing, so when athiests challenge us, we are prepared. How should Christians explain aliens to athiests when the aliens offically annouce their presence with the world leaders and the Pope?

 

[lynx]

Now this is far more how God works... both His Spirit and His angels... even to the point of using an athiest to help His plan.

Amen!

 

[CalledToServe]

[/COLOR]

This is a question that a lot of people will ask, no matter is Christians, Cathlics, Hindu, atheists, the rich, poor, leaders....etc, espectially now with so much UFOs phenomenon and aliens abduction reports. It is a vaild quesion to many people, espectially athiests. I don't think people should approach this with denial or escape, we should do research and study the whole thing, so when athiests challenge us, we are prepared. How should Christians explain aliens to athiests when the aliens offically annouce their presence with the world leaders and the Pope?

In the end does losing your salvation to win a debate sound worth it to you? There are mysteries in this big universe that God has created and we're not supposed to know what they are. Remember what tree Adam and Eve ate from. It was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. The adversary tempted them with forbidden knowledge and presented them with the choice to follow God's commandment or to break it. We're told that Adam and Eve chose to break God's Word to seek knowledge they shouldn't have had. If God wanted us to know all things He would have given it to us and not even have the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

 

[handy]

[/COLOR]

This is a question that a lot of people will ask, no matter is Christians, Cathlics, Hindu, atheists, the rich, poor, leaders....etc, espectially now with so much UFOs phenomenon and aliens abduction reports. It is a vaild quesion to many people, espectially athiests. I don't think people should approach this with denial or escape, we should do research and study the whole thing, so when athiests challenge us, we are prepared. How should Christians explain aliens to athiests when the aliens offically annouce their presence with the world leaders and the Pope?

If you want to state that you believe that the aliens are really demons trying to decieve... that is an OK answer from a Christian perspective. We know from the Bible that demons do like to pose as enlightened beings. We also know that they are liars. These are things we can say.

We can also say, as CalledtoServe has stated, that we cannot know everything, but what is written for us down in the Scriptures are what we can know.

There is nothing in the Scriptures about aliens from other planets. There is a lot about demons who try to cast doubt about God and who try to decieve.

As much as I respect the last couple of Popes, they are still men prone to error. If any Pope embraces or baptizes an "alien", we as Christians should look seriously into the fact that he is in error.

Lastly, the message we have to give all in the world, including athiests, is the Gospel. The fact that whether the "aliens" are interstellar beings or demons posing as such... Jesus Christ nonetheless is the Creator of all and He is the One whom we should be listening to.

I'm not trying to "escape" nor are my responses to you due to willful ignorance. The fact of the matter is, I don't have to study "aliens"... I have the Scriptures. The Scriptures tell me that demons pose as enlightened beings and that they lie. The Scriptures also tell me that it will be demons, the beast and anti-Christ who will lead people astray in the last days... not aliens. The Scriptures tell me to rely upon the Holy Spirit and to worship in Spirit and in truth... not chase after things which the Lord chose not to reveal.

I truly urge you, Lynx, to become a student of the Scriptures and pour the engery and interest you have in aliens into learning, studying and becoming approved! :yes