Animal Rights

[God&DogGirl]

Why thank you. That was iffy, I was afraid I would be told off for comparing caring for animals to caring for children. ;)

But young children and animals are equally as innocent so hurting them is even more horrifying because they don't understand why and they can't hurt you back (though I guess a dog can take a chunk out of you if you're being abusive enough... but if you're beating him, serves you right).

 

[gunghorjc]

I think that was a good analogy as well.

I am a hunter. I hunt for the meat so I can have food. I wouldn't call it a "sport", but there's an enthralling aspect to it. Watching deer move about on your property (if you have private property) and how they react and live really gets you to understand them and appreciate their beauty. When you're out there in the woods watching the deer move around you wait for the "best" possible shot.

I've known a bunch of hunters who will shoot at the deer as soon as they see it. Usually resulting in an injury to the deer and it ends up suffering and bleeding to death. Yes, it's unfortunate, but that's why I believe in properly teaching new hunters to respect and thanks for the animal God has given. It's also why I advocate using a round capable of taking a deer (or any animal you're hunting) with a round that'll have the most "knockdown" power available. Meaning, yes, a .22 can kill a deer, but the deer is going to go a long ways and bleed a long time before it falls.

I purchased a few books on tanning the deer hides to make buckskins and I'll try it out this fall when deer hunting starts again. Just another way I can make sure more of the deer that God has alowed me to take gets used and doesn't end up being wasted.

 

[God&DogGirl]

I am a hunter. I hunt for the meat so I can have food.

That kind of hunting is fine. I won't wear real fur because I don't believe in killing an animal for its skin but if you use the whole body of an animal, that's the best option. Look at the Indians who hunted buffalo. They ate the meat, used the bones, and wore the fur. If you're going to kill an animal, use most, if not all of it.

 

[handy]

I think that was a good analogy as well.

I am a hunter. I hunt for the meat so I can have food. I wouldn't call it a "sport", but there's an enthralling aspect to it. Watching deer move about on your property (if you have private property) and how they react and live really gets you to understand them and appreciate their beauty. When you're out there in the woods watching the deer move around you wait for the "best" possible shot.

I've known a bunch of hunters who will shoot at the deer as soon as they see it. Usually resulting in an injury to the deer and it ends up suffering and bleeding to death. Yes, it's unfortunate, but that's why I believe in properly teaching new hunters to respect and thanks for the animal God has given. It's also why I advocate using a round capable of taking a deer (or any animal you're hunting) with a round that'll have the most "knockdown" power available. Meaning, yes, a .22 can kill a deer, but the deer is going to go a long ways and bleed a long time before it falls.

I purchased a few books on tanning the deer hides to make buckskins and I'll try it out this fall when deer hunting starts again. Just another way I can make sure more of the deer that God has alowed me to take gets used and doesn't end up being wasted.

See, I think this is the attitude that hunters should have. There is nothing wrong with hunting, all animals are given for eating and if one eats the animal and uses the hides and such, we are using them as God gave us to use.

But, living where I do, I also see what irresponsible hunters are capable of and it ain't pretty. We had someone poach a deer right by our house not long ago and my husband, daughter and neighbor went to find it. Poor thing did die, but suffered greatly in death and then the F&G had to confiscate the body...what a sad waste.

(And, don't get me started on someone who would poach a deer so close to my house when we have kids, pets and stock animals! )

 

[Pard]

G&DG,

I can assume you have never hunted before? :

It's hard to hunt without having fun. It's a rush, to say the least. You are in the wild, your adrenaline is off the charts. Separating the fun from the hunt is probably impossible. Plus, it's simply an enjoyable thing to be able to do something that people have done for almost 5000 years. It's reliving what our ancestors did in order to survive.

I'm not sure what you consider "sport hunting", however if you mean trophy hunting, than I agree. An animal that is killed should be used to its fullest. I don't see a problem with big game hunting or hunting trophy animals, but you ought to put every part of them to use (with the exception of the bad parts, of course).

Actually, animals that are hunted and that are eaten are better off than those that live in the wild and are low in population. What I mean is that an animal that is a "sport animal", like some of the rare African gazelle, are only alive still because they are raised and released once they reach adulthood. Ted Nugent a prime example of this. He has a thriving population of rare gazelle that only exist today because he raises them.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.

Genesis 1:26

Based on this I'd have to disagree with:

God put us in charge of the animals. When you're in charge of a group of children, you're expected to be responsible. Well God expects us to be responsible in ruling over the animals. And that means that abusing them is sinful.

from a biblical point of view. At first I was like "yeah I can see that" but a nagging told me to go look at Genesis and I have to amend my previous thinking. God put us above all animals. Children are not below another human in any way but a perceived one based upon age. Animals are below all humans. You may view them as your equal, but God surely intended them to be your lesser. He even picked the word "radah", which means "to tread down/upon" when describing what type of rule man has over animal.

Now I agree torture or such to an animal is wrong, but handy had the write passage in reference to that being wrong.

A righteous man has regard for the life of his animal, But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel

Proverbs 12:10

And handy,

Don't know about where you live, but in CT Game wardens who confiscate an animal take what they need for evidence and then turn it over to a food pantry for use. So you can be comforted in knowing that the animal probably didn't go to waste.

 

[gunghorjc]

Oh yes, we have those folks in Michigan as well. A few weeks ago we saw someone "shining" (using a spotlight in a field to see deer at night) and then a few minutes later a gun shot.

It really is quite sad, considering that Michigan gives ample time for hunting. Deer season runs from September (for young hunters I think aged 14-16) all the way through December.

What's the F&G? Forest and Game Management? :

 

[handy]

Don't know about where you live, but in CT Game wardens who confiscate an animal take what they need for evidence and then turn it over to a food pantry for use. So you can be comforted in knowing that the animal probably didn't go to waste.

That's the case here in Idaho as well, when it can be done. Unfortunately, the animal was shot late on a Saturday afternoon, and stayed where it was until the F&G could get up here on Monday afternoon. Since it was warm all weekend that weekend, I doubt the meat was any good.


PS, I don't know, my kids will tell you I "tread down" on them with great frequency!

 

[God&DogGirl]

Children are equals, yes. And animals aren't. But I still believe they deserve some amount of respect. God did create them. They're living, they feel pain and emotions... if you're going to kill it, put the poor thing out of its misery as fast as you can. Again, animals are innocent and they will never understand why you are hurting them. So don't do it.

But I'm someone who has had an animal change their life (see my avatar, that's my Grace) so animals are valuable and they have worth. And I respect them as God's creations and as living, feeling beings. And, in Grace and other mammal's cases, loving beings as well.

 

[handy]

Oh yes, we have those folks in Michigan as well. A few weeks ago we saw someone "shining" (using a spotlight in a field to see deer at night) and then a few minutes later a gun shot.

It really is quite sad, considering that Michigan gives ample time for hunting. Deer season runs from September (for young hunters I think aged 14-16) all the way through December.

What's the F&G? Forest and Game Management? :

Wow, they shot at night during spring!?! When babies are being born! Grrrrrrrr

Idaho Department of Fish and Game...most states have their own fish and game management so perhaps Michigan's is the Forest and Game Management.

 

[gunghorjc]

Pard, Michigan has the same thing about donating the deer meat to a food pantry. It's used mostly for deer hit with a car, unless the deer laid out too long and the venison spoiled. Which does happen as not everyone will call in a deer hit (which MI law requires).

EDIT: Michigan is the DNR. Department of National Resources, I was just guessing what F&G meant. Thanks for informing me. :D

And yeah, they shot at night. We reported the gun shot, but it can be a common occurence out here in the country (usually not right now, it's more common right before hunting season so someone can get a trophy buck and claim they took it during hunting season) so I'm not sure if the police responded. By time they'd get there whoever shot would be gone.

 

[Pard]

Yeah our department is called the Department of Environmental Protection. They do everything from pollution to hunting. We are lucky here because deer are considered a pest, we have such an over population of them. The bag limit for guns is 20 a season. We are also blessed with a program that allows us to stick the deer we do not need into a program to feed the hungry and the remains are sold and the profits go to help the homeless. So when I go for deer #4 (I only take in 3 deer for us) I can be very happy in knowing it will go to help the less fortunate.

Think God would consider that charity? :D

Do you guys have hunting times? I think we can hunt 24/7 during season. I've never gone beyond dusk but thats because its wicked dangerous to be walking in the woods after dark.

 

[gunghorjc]

Our hunting times are dawn to dusk. No "night time" hunting.

Michigan has a large population of deer, and I think 5 doe are the limit and 1 buck (with a firearm, not including muzzleloaders).

We also have the program to donate deer to a food pantry. I think it's a good program. Glad your state has it as well.

 

[Riverwolf]

Somehow I can see this thread going on for days and days. If people here can talk that long on smoking and seatbelts, then why not? The OP was not clear on and in fact did not mention hunting. Heck, I thought we were talking slaughterhouses. Of course hunting for meat is ok, and yes it is fun or we would not do it anyway. It usually come out to over $10/LB when all is said and done, so yes the fun factor is the main driving point for most of us. I know people who fish and hunt who don't eat the meat but they give it to the needy. I admit to not knowing much about trophy or big game hunting, but what I see on TV makes me sick. And no, of course animals don't have rights. And if I see someone abusing one yes I will go ballistic.

 

[God&DogGirl]

It's encouraging to find out that deer who were killed by cars will go to feed those in need. I didn't know that. I have a friend who hit one by accident and felt just horrible, I'll have to let her know.

Of course, I doubt they use dead squirrels, skunks, and rabbits. And I know that dogs who were put to sleep or found dead by animal rescues are cremated. I don't know if they save the ashes or just sweep them up but I know they are burned.

 

[Pard]

10/lb? Wow, using like .50 cal ammo? :D

At a buck a bullet I'd say the meat costs like $1 a deer, and a deer is like 200lbs or less.

And I never even thought about using a muzzleloader. I tried bow once, but I just don't have the mind for it.

Uh, we can hunt deer outside of season but it has to be an adult and it has to be on our property and we have to prove it is damaging our property and it cannot be kept, it must be donated to the needy. Like I said, they are pests here. Someone said that there are more deer in CT than people.

Yeah when small game gets hit by a car there isn't usually anything that can be donated. A car usually busts open the gut and when the gut is exposed the animal needs to be thrown away (preferably burned) or else it can spread disease.

 

[Chris]

In the beginning God made all things. Not long after man decided he was superior to any other living thing on the planet. He began to mistreat and abuse those he shared this world with. He even made slaves and sacrifices of his own kind.

Now the latest is the battery farm. It is the holocaust of the animals. If you partake of the evil inflicted on the innocent you ingest the suffering and partake of one of the cruelest things man has ever done.

PETA - Meet your Meat

If you are convinced I need to eat meat I will be more than happy to eat you, but we wont kill another innocent living creature because there is no need.
Meat is not needed it it just a cruel flavor desired by the heartless.

One day man will wake up and realize the real treasures of this planet were around us all along

 

[gunghorjc]

Of course hunting for meat is ok, and yes it is fun or we would not do it anyway.

I honestly have to disagree with this, Riverwolf. Hunting for me never started as something to do for "fun". It was to provide food.

It's encouraging to find out that deer who were killed by cars will go to feed those in need. I didn't know that. I have a friend who hit one by accident and felt just horrible, I'll have to let her know.

Tell your friend not to feel too bad. Deer are pretty quick and when you're driving 55 mph and a deer jumps out, there's nothing really you can do to not avoid hitting it, just try to slow down as much as possible. Don't SWERVE! Seriously. I've known quite a few people to get bad injuries from swerving and rolling their cars.

You'd have to check with your state, I'm not sure if it's a nationwide thing or something just a few states do. Plus your friend would have had to report it so that the deer could be found.

10/lb? Wow, using like .50 cal ammo? :D

No kidding! $10 a lb? Wow. It'd be cheaper not to hunt. We usually take our deer to a proccessor where it'll cost a little more than just the cost of the bullet but it doesn't come out to nowhere close to $10 a lb.

 

[Pard]

in the beginning God made all things. Not long after man decided he was superior to any other living thing on the planet. he began to mistreat and abuse those he shared this world with. he even made slaves and sacrifices of his own kind.

(*I added emphasis)
Hmmm...

No I don't recall that in the Bible at all. I do recall this, though:

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26">26</sup> Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27">27</sup> So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-28">28</sup> God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Genesis 1

God made use superior. We are superior. In fact we are so superior that God used the word "radah", which is literally translated to "to tread upon" when He said that man is to "rule over" animals.

Furthermore, to reinforce our domain over all creatures, God had man name them all. In Hebrew "naming" means so much more than it does to us in English. A name is the very essence of a being, and so when God gave man the power to name all the creatures of the earth He truly showed how much power man has over all creatures, great and small.

Gun,

Forgot the processor fee! My cousin showed me how to gut my own deer, so next season I will hopefully be able to cut out the processor and make it a true buck per buck :D

 

[God&DogGirl]

Oh she knows it wasn't her fault. It's just upsetting when you kill an animal, even by accident. And she's like me, her pets are her family.

I know I'd be a complete basketcase if I hit a dog so I always keep a lookout on neighborhood streets while I'm driving for kids and dogs. And my heart breaks when I see a dead dog on the side of the road, especially one with a collar. Even if it was probably his fault.

 

[Chris]

(*I added emphasis)
Hmmm...


God made use superior. We are superior. In fact we are so superior that God used the word "radah", which is literally translated to "to tread upon" when He said that man is to "rule over" animals.

That superiority, it has turned out to be the same sort of superior just like colonel Gaddafi or Stalin used to rule over their country. we look after some of our animals..with weapons, prisons and torture. There is no love in that.
Whatever you give out it will come back many times if you give out love it will be returned to you more.

but fight we must also do for those who cannot defend themselves...