Animals in heaven. What do you think.

[starbyfar]

I dated an animal rights activist who was extremely determined to believe that "all dogs go to heaven" per se lol.

I don't think I believe they do. Itd be nice, but its kinda one of those things where I've always thought in order to go to heaven you have to be saved. Clear cut, black and white. And since animals don't have christ in them, and can't repent of sins (lol do animals sin?), they won't be there?

Of course i've never read any scripture that says animals WON'T be there, but the many scripture i've read about how much more valuable and precious to God we are than animals leads me to believe that they are not our equals.

But this would definitley make for a great bible study, being that i'm a vegetarian and somewhat an animal rights activist myself! :D

 

[mutzrein]

Matthew 6:9-13
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.



Verse 10 speaks for itself.


Whatever good that is on earth is and was first created in heaven.

God created the animals so therefore, Animals are in heaven.


10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

.

So, you don't think it is just talking about the things God wills to do? As opposed to willing the replicating of the good things in heaven on earth? Surely you can't be serious. Mind you with a topic like this - I take everything with a pinch of salt. Even the ribs :-D

 

[guibox]

Another SDA cultic doctrine! At least you are consistant.

And he [Jesus] called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Matthew 15:10-11

The Jewish were regulated by the Law given them by Moses, while the Gentiles were not under the Law. Paul explains that if a brother will stumble because they are convinced that eating pork is unclean, then do not eat in front of them. If eating meat given to idols will cause one to stumble then do not eat in front of those that will stumble in their obedience to the Lord. It isn't the meat that defiles a person, it is what comes out of their mouth such as false doctrines.

And once again, you ignore context in Matthew 15 as well for the Revised Solo Version of the bible. The one that takes everything out of context and then makes it 'true' and all else false.

Solo, you will believe whatever you want to believe regardless of context or truth. You are as closeminded and 'holy' as the Pharisees were. They thought they knew all the truth as well and the rest be damned.

 

[Solo]

Another SDA cultic doctrine! At least you are consistant.

And he [Jesus] called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Matthew 15:10-11

The Jewish were regulated by the Law given them by Moses, while the Gentiles were not under the Law. Paul explains that if a brother will stumble because they are convinced that eating pork is unclean, then do not eat in front of them. If eating meat given to idols will cause one to stumble then do not eat in front of those that will stumble in their obedience to the Lord. It isn't the meat that defiles a person, it is what comes out of their mouth such as false doctrines.

And once again, you ignore context in Matthew 15 as well for the Revised Solo Version of the bible. The one that takes everything out of context and then makes it 'true' and all else false.

Solo, you will believe whatever you want to believe regardless of context or truth. You are as closeminded and 'holy' as the Pharisees were. They thought they knew all the truth as well and the rest be damned.

Have a pork chop. They aren't all that bad. To think that some believe that what they eat will send them to hell. :o

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1 Timothy 4:1-5

 

[Soma-Sight]

The following is a true story......

I dont eat pork.

Last week I had a hamburger with bacon on it at Chiles for the first time in like 4 years.

Suffice to say I had the runs all night and the next day.

Whether you think it sends you to hell or not is not even the issue.

Whether it sends you to the toilet or to an early grave via myocardial infarction is the issue.

 

[Solo]

When it is your time to go, you will go; until then, enjoy a pork chop! :D

PS My green chili verde with puerco is out of this world.

 

[guibox]

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1 Timothy 4:1-5

Look at the context closely, Solo...just once in your time here, that's all I ask.

"Forbidding to marry AND COMMANDING to abstain from meats" the two go together. I dont' recall any SDA doctrines or any other vegetarian group that requires martial abstinence along with eating only clean meats.

Obviously there were some issues specifically related to Paul's day here with certain people?

Who?

Pagan Roman rulers and Jews FORCING ascetic rituals and unfair restrictions on the cultural life of the people (Same idea in Colossians 2).

Nowhere is the issue about eating unclean meats but enforcement of ritualistic feasting, fasting and abstaining. Also the Jews were strongly condemning the Romans for eating food that was sacrificed to idols.

Let's look at the clincher that Paul was actually talking about clean meats made 'koinos' according to the Jews for ritualistic uncleanliness.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer

Look closely at these words, Solo. To be sanctified means to be "set apart". So this 'meat' that Paul is talking about has already been specified by the word of God as "set apart" to be eaten.

God's Word did sanctify certain foods. The food that was MEANT to be eaten WAS "set apart". That's what the Levitical laws were about. They 'sanctified' certain foods to be eaten apart from others.

Paul is talking about all clean meats being acceptable to eat. The Jews were saying that even CLEAN meat was 'unclean' because of ritual uncleanliness.

Context, context, context...Everything in context, my dear Solo.

 

[Solo]

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. 1 Timothy 4:1-5

Look at the context closely, Solo...just once in your time here, that's all I ask.

"Forbidding to marry AND COMMANDING to abstain from meats" the two go together. I dont' recall any SDA doctrines or any other vegetarian group that requires martial abstinence along with eating only clean meats.

Obviously there were some issues specifically related to Paul's day here with certain people?

Who?

Pagan Roman rulers and Jews FORCING ascetic rituals and unfair restrictions on the cultural life of the people (Same idea in Colossians 2).

Nowhere is the issue about eating unclean meats but enforcement of ritualistic feasting, fasting and abstaining. Also the Jews were strongly condemning the Romans for eating food that was sacrificed to idols.

Let's look at the clincher that Paul was actually talking about clean meats made 'koinos' according to the Jews for ritualistic uncleanliness.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer

Look closely at these words, Solo. To be sanctified means to be "set apart". So this 'meat' that Paul is talking about has already been specified by the word of God as "set apart" to be eaten.

God's Word did sanctify certain foods. The food that was MEANT to be eaten WAS "set apart". That's what the Levitical laws were about. They 'sanctified' certain foods to be eaten apart from others.

Paul is talking about all clean meats being acceptable to eat. The Jews were saying that even CLEAN meat was 'unclean' because of ritual uncleanliness.

Context, context, context...Everything in context, my dear Solo.

The context is clear, but not if you want to live by the SDA doctrines. Don't forget to look at the context of doctrine of devils. Ole EGW cannot be a prophet of God because of her errors in prophecies, so I would not partake in any of her doctrines, especially since she could not be speaking for the master.

You sure do like to put your words around the Word of God. It just is amazing how you continue to twist the SDA doctrines into the Word of God. Simply amazing.

PS The World Wide Church of God Cult headed up by Herbert Armstrong agrees with your twisting.

 

[Relic]

.

Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Revelation 5:13
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

.

 

[Relic]

When it is your time to go, you will go; until then, enjoy a pork chop! :D

PS My green chili verde with puerco is out of this world.

Consider that recipe to be bound in heaven along with all the pets I've had in this lifetime and the times to come! :D


Solo's HOT Green Chili
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=244215#244215

Thanks Solo!

:wink: :D

.

 

[mutzrein]

I don't know the answer to this question. I don't believe in the Ressurection of the Body anyway, so if animals are in heaven they would have to be transformed into Spiritual Beings.

Gendou - I take it that you do believe in resurrection though huh? It is just resurrection of the body of flesh you are contending here. Is that what you are saying?

BTW I too appreciate one who is prepared to say "I don't know" rather than holding fast to something and not really knowing why.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Solo,

In the amazon the wild pig is called "the best meat of the jungle".

When I was out exploring I often could here shots going off and the tribespeople told me that they were out hunting the wild pig.

You would probably like the taste of it. It is very muscular and smells strong.

I tried a little bit but it gave me the runs!

 

[BradtheImpaler]

I just have two quick questions about animals and the new earth.



2.Do you think animals,including our pets will be resurrected to live on the new Earth?

Yes, and if you don't use a pooper-scooper there, you're really in big trouble :D

 

[Vic C.]

Oh my goodness... again. : I was kidding around with my OT reference to not eating swine, though too much doesn't agree with me either. :o

 

[Soma-Sight]

Oh my goodness... again. I was kidding around with my OT reference to not eating swine, though too much doesn't agree with me either.

I dont get it. Must be some sort of microoraganism in pork or something that blows out the colon.....

 

[Solo]

Oh my goodness... again. I was kidding around with my OT reference to not eating swine, though too much doesn't agree with me either.

I dont get it. Must be some sort of microoraganism in pork or something that blows out the colon.....

Sounds like you have an intolerance to cuisine that you are not accustomed to, as are most. I wonder if the Mexicans have a problem drinking their own water, or if it is just that Americans are not accustomed to it?

 

[Gendou Ikari]

Gendou - I take it that you do believe in resurrection though huh? It is just resurrection of the body of flesh you are contending here. Is that what you are saying?

Yes, I believe in a ressurection. I'm not a Sadducee. :-D If Christ be not raised then all of our faith is in vain. Be he was raised and eventually so shall all be raised to immortal spirits.

BTW I too appreciate one who is prepared to say "I don't know" rather than holding fast to something and not really knowing why.

“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.†-- Socrates

I count on God to reveal the Scriptures to me. If God does not help me I might as well be looking at blank pages.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Gendou - I take it that you do believe in resurrection though huh? It is just resurrection of the body of flesh you are contending here. Is that what you are saying?

Yes, I believe in a ressurection. I'm not a Sadducee. :-D If Christ be not raised then all of our faith is in vain. Be he was raised and eventually so shall all be raised to immortal spirits.

Careful, G.I., lest Solo accuse you of the 'cult belief' of 'soul sleep'.

Also - don't mean to be picky - ALL will not be raised to immortal spirits. That 'bonus' is given only to the righteous.

 

[Solo]

Gendou - I take it that you do believe in resurrection though huh? It is just resurrection of the body of flesh you are contending here. Is that what you are saying?

Yes, I believe in a ressurection. I'm not a Sadducee. :-D If Christ be not raised then all of our faith is in vain. Be he was raised and eventually so shall all be raised to immortal spirits.

Careful, G.I., lest Solo accuse you of the 'cult belief' of 'soul sleep'.

Also - don't mean to be picky - ALL will not be raised to immortal spirits. That 'bonus' is given only to the righteous.

Is Moses participating in Soul Sleep? Is Steven participating in Soul Sleep? Are the Souls under the alter of Jesus Christ depicted in Revelation participating in Soul Sleep? Soul Sleep is of cultic origins.
Don't confuse the body sleeping in the grave as the soul sleeping.

 

[mutzrein]

“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.†-- Socrates

I count on God to reveal the Scriptures to me. If God does not help me I might as well be looking at blank pages.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Kind of sums it up for me