Doulos Iesou
Member
Introduction
Recently, I was reading through the latest thread on this matter and was continually seeing the charge that Annihilationism (or as we prefer, Conditional Immortality) ignores important texts from Scripture and that we all need to study more.
I will refute that notion here by addressing the primary texts which we supposedly "ignore."
Argument #1 l Eternal Life and Eternal Punishment
Here is the text most commonly used to attempt to refute our position:
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”[1]
The logic goes like this for those of the Traditional view, the word eternal means the same thing both times it is said. The reward lasts forever as does the punishment.
This is something which at no time we have ever denied, and will agree that the punishment endures for an eternity and indeed lasts forever. What this text does not necessarily infer is what the punishment IS, just that it is permanent. In v.41 of the same chapter it describes the nature of the punishment as "eternal fire."
The only instance we have where people are actually punished with eternal fire is Sodom and Gomorrah, as seen here.
"just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."[2]
Notice that they experienced the punishment of "eternal fire," the very punishment promised to those who reject Christ. This punishment in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah was a complete obliteration, it did not involve any kind of torturing, and whatever suffering they experienced was as a result of that all engulfing flame.
Why should the punishment of eternal fire mean one thing in one instance and a completely different thing in another instance?
Argument #2 l Smoke of Their Torment
Here is the next text:
"And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”[3]
If we simply look at the message at face value we can glean the following.
1. Those who take the mark will experience God's wrath.
2. They will be tormented with fire and sulfur.
3. The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever.
4. They have not rest day or not.
What this truly does look like upon first inspection, it certainly does seem to support the view of Eternal Conscious Torment. However, with every instance of exegesis it is important for us to recognize the TYPE of literature this is written in. In this case, this is Apocalyptic literature and often employs symbolic and figurative language.
Is there perhaps another instance in Scripture where this exact style is used? Indeed there is:
"And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch,
and her soil into sulfur;
her land shall become burning pitch.
Night and day it shall not be quenched;
its smoke shall go up forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
none shall pass through it forever and ever."[4]
This is apocalyptic language in the book of Isaiah, where it is describing the destruction of Edom. Now let's do the same exercise here as we did with Revelation, what can we learn at face value.
1. The streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch and soil into sulfur.
2. The land shall become a burning pitch.
3. It will not be quenched, either night or day, it's smoke will go up forever.
4. It shall lie waste and impassable forever.
Now, were any of these things true for Edom? No, today there is a highway that passes through ancient Edom. There is also no smoke continually rising from Edom, nor burning pitch. Neither does it lie waste, and it's streams are of water.
Is this a false prophecy then? Or does it rather demonstrate the foolishness of attempting to try to paint so literally, clearly figurative language. Notice how the same kind of language is employed:
1. Fire and Sulfur are both used.
2. The expression of it continuing night and day is used.
3. The very same phrase of the smoke going up forever and ever is used.
The similarities are apparent, and the fact that it is of the same genre of literature should reveal quite a bit to us. That the expressive and figurative language detailing God's judgement, is meant to convey permanence of destruction rather than conveying the literal interpretation of continuance of judgement. The nation of Edom was destroyed, as will be those who are not in the Lamb's book of life.
Argument #3 l Hell Was a Burning Garbage Dump
Another popular argument is that Jesus' usage of the word "Gehenna" (hell) denoted the fiery imagery of the garbage dump southwest of the city in the Valley of Hinnom. However, there is no evidence for this.
"The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier in-tertestamental or the later rabbinic sources."[5]
The word Gehenna, which was a transliteration of the Hebrew word which meant Valley of Hinnom, was a place where children were sacrificed to Moloch. It is later prophesied that it would become known as the "Valley of Slaughter,"[6] and would become the site of the future slaughter of the wicked.[7]
In no ways does this support to the exclusion of other views, the traditional view of Eternal Conscious Torment.
Conclusion
Simply put, the eternal conscious torment view is not only emotionally untenable and an affront to the character and goodness of God. It is also not the best interpretation for these texts, and it is best understood to be representative of the punishment that was promised throughout Scripture. Death and Destruction.
Regards,
DI
[1] Matthew 25:46 (ESV)
[2] Jude 7 (ESV)
[3] Revelation 14:9-11
[4] Isaiah 34:9-10
[5] Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols.
[6] Jeremiah 19:6
[7] Isaiah 66:24
Recently, I was reading through the latest thread on this matter and was continually seeing the charge that Annihilationism (or as we prefer, Conditional Immortality) ignores important texts from Scripture and that we all need to study more.
I will refute that notion here by addressing the primary texts which we supposedly "ignore."
Argument #1 l Eternal Life and Eternal Punishment
Here is the text most commonly used to attempt to refute our position:
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”[1]
The logic goes like this for those of the Traditional view, the word eternal means the same thing both times it is said. The reward lasts forever as does the punishment.
This is something which at no time we have ever denied, and will agree that the punishment endures for an eternity and indeed lasts forever. What this text does not necessarily infer is what the punishment IS, just that it is permanent. In v.41 of the same chapter it describes the nature of the punishment as "eternal fire."
The only instance we have where people are actually punished with eternal fire is Sodom and Gomorrah, as seen here.
"just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."[2]
Notice that they experienced the punishment of "eternal fire," the very punishment promised to those who reject Christ. This punishment in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah was a complete obliteration, it did not involve any kind of torturing, and whatever suffering they experienced was as a result of that all engulfing flame.
Why should the punishment of eternal fire mean one thing in one instance and a completely different thing in another instance?
Argument #2 l Smoke of Their Torment
Here is the next text:
"And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,he also will drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”[3]
If we simply look at the message at face value we can glean the following.
1. Those who take the mark will experience God's wrath.
2. They will be tormented with fire and sulfur.
3. The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever.
4. They have not rest day or not.
What this truly does look like upon first inspection, it certainly does seem to support the view of Eternal Conscious Torment. However, with every instance of exegesis it is important for us to recognize the TYPE of literature this is written in. In this case, this is Apocalyptic literature and often employs symbolic and figurative language.
Is there perhaps another instance in Scripture where this exact style is used? Indeed there is:
"And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch,
and her soil into sulfur;
her land shall become burning pitch.
Night and day it shall not be quenched;
its smoke shall go up forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
none shall pass through it forever and ever."[4]
This is apocalyptic language in the book of Isaiah, where it is describing the destruction of Edom. Now let's do the same exercise here as we did with Revelation, what can we learn at face value.
1. The streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch and soil into sulfur.
2. The land shall become a burning pitch.
3. It will not be quenched, either night or day, it's smoke will go up forever.
4. It shall lie waste and impassable forever.
Now, were any of these things true for Edom? No, today there is a highway that passes through ancient Edom. There is also no smoke continually rising from Edom, nor burning pitch. Neither does it lie waste, and it's streams are of water.
Is this a false prophecy then? Or does it rather demonstrate the foolishness of attempting to try to paint so literally, clearly figurative language. Notice how the same kind of language is employed:
1. Fire and Sulfur are both used.
2. The expression of it continuing night and day is used.
3. The very same phrase of the smoke going up forever and ever is used.
The similarities are apparent, and the fact that it is of the same genre of literature should reveal quite a bit to us. That the expressive and figurative language detailing God's judgement, is meant to convey permanence of destruction rather than conveying the literal interpretation of continuance of judgement. The nation of Edom was destroyed, as will be those who are not in the Lamb's book of life.
Argument #3 l Hell Was a Burning Garbage Dump
Another popular argument is that Jesus' usage of the word "Gehenna" (hell) denoted the fiery imagery of the garbage dump southwest of the city in the Valley of Hinnom. However, there is no evidence for this.
"The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier in-tertestamental or the later rabbinic sources."[5]
The word Gehenna, which was a transliteration of the Hebrew word which meant Valley of Hinnom, was a place where children were sacrificed to Moloch. It is later prophesied that it would become known as the "Valley of Slaughter,"[6] and would become the site of the future slaughter of the wicked.[7]
In no ways does this support to the exclusion of other views, the traditional view of Eternal Conscious Torment.
Conclusion
Simply put, the eternal conscious torment view is not only emotionally untenable and an affront to the character and goodness of God. It is also not the best interpretation for these texts, and it is best understood to be representative of the punishment that was promised throughout Scripture. Death and Destruction.
Regards,
DI
[1] Matthew 25:46 (ESV)
[2] Jude 7 (ESV)
[3] Revelation 14:9-11
[4] Isaiah 34:9-10
[5] Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols.
[6] Jeremiah 19:6
[7] Isaiah 66:24
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