Another Gospel? Is it OK?

[glorydaz]

The idea of an apostle per God's Word is one who is 'sent'. For someone to be an apostle of Christ today, it would have to mean Christ's direct appearance to that person, and also given authority by Christ that is beyond doubt. Having a vision of Christ must include Him speaking directly to the person being called as an apostle, and what they're directed duty is. Further, what they speak and work must align with God's Word as written. Many are called, but few are chosen. Many peoples have a calling in Christ without having Him appear to them and tell them what their duty is. So it's important not to get being called confused with being a chosen sent one, or apostle.

Talk about confused...this is a pretty good article on why there is confusion about apostles. Where you have an apostle, you will have followers. Therein lies the danger.

The same root word means missionary...which is probably more readily recognized by those in this day and age. The problem, as I see it, is everyone can claim to be an apostle.

Apostles Today
You are driving down the road one Saturday while flipping from one radio station to another. One boisterous voice catches your attention. After a few minutes you discover that you are listening to the Christian radio broadcast of Apostle John, a man who claims to perform miracles, get messages from God, and who wants you to send him an offering.

The next Monday at work you spend some time talking to one of your fellow employees and discover that he is a Mormon. You are curious and ask numerous questions about his beliefs and practices. You make a mental note when he mentions that the Mormon Church presently has twelve apostles.

On Wednesday evening, you attend services at your Baptist church. A missionary has come in to present his field to the church. In the middle of his presentation, he makes a claim that catches your ear. He says that the missionaries of today are basically continuing the work of the apostles.

He continues his argument. They are not the Twelve who followed Christ when He walked the earth, but they are fulfilling the central work of the apostles when they go to new fields and start churches. This is what Paul did and he was an apostle. In fact, there are several men who are called apostles in the New Testament who were not part of the original Twelve. The name means “sent one†and can be used of those who are sent out by the Lord for a specific mission—thus, missionaries.

Now, you are really confused. You thought that the office of apostle had died out about the time the New Testament was completed. But now, in five days time, you have heard from three different claims of apostleship. What are you to believe? Do we still have apostles today? Has the office continued? And, if it has, who has the right to claim apostleship?

The purpose of this article is to give a biblical answer to these and other questions about apostles today and in the Bible. We will begin with a survey of those who were called apostles in the New Testament.

http://www.learnthebible.org/apostles-today.html

 

[francisdesales]

When we are born again (quickened by the Holy Spirit) all our sins have been forgiven.
Why the need to hear it from men when it's been accomplished on the cross?

When we sin again after being born from above, we again require the intercessions of Christ, who CONTINUES to intercede for us in heaven - according to Scriptures. This is why Christians have always considered the sacrament of Reconcilliation the "second baptism". You are introducing a mindset totally unknown to Christianity for well over 1000 years. Confession, too, relies on the work of Jesus on the Cross, of course.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

hi francis,
i agree, it is wonderful when the Lord forgives us of our sins, however, this is one of the reasons Jesus sacrificed Himself and rose again, He is now our intercessor and no need for a man to intercede for us. it seems it's a disservice when there are people who are afraid to go to confession and they will refuse to listen to the Truth in that they don't need to "go to confession" they simply need to repent, it's now between God and us. Thank you Jesus for paving the way for us!

God bless -

Hello Darcy,

Yes, Jesus sacrificed Himself for our sake - and what occurs in our Sacrament is the application of Christ's work on the cross to our souls, yet again. When we sin, we wound our relationship with God. All relationships require such forgiveness when wounded.

The Bible does not say anywhere that another man need not intercede for us. As a matter of fact, Paul repeatedly ASKS that OTHERS do just that, Darcy. We are to pray for others. That is interceding for them, it is a sign of love. We desire that God grace OTHERS, not just ourselves. Praying for others is paramount in growing in Love, since Love is a movement TOWARDS OTHERS.

If you think Confession is not "necessary", perhaps you should consider two things. First, why did Jesus give this power to the Apostles AFTER the resurrection, when His works on the cross was completed? WHY were the Apostles given the authority to hear other confessions and to bind or loosen one's sins? Secondly, ALL human relationships, to continue, require an act of sorrow and forgiveness when we hurt someone else. If we are in a relationship with God, please explain why this human need, to be sorrowful and to ask for forgiveness, is no longer required with God...

If you desire to continue this conversation, Darcy, may I suggest we go to either:

The debate site, where we can talk (without debating, merely to explain, but this conversation is allowed there)

Private mail through this forum.

The ToS does not really allow such open talk about Catholicism, as there are too many people out there who hate things Catholic and such talk usually brings out the worse from some of our brothers and sisters...

Regards

 

[glorydaz]

ALL human relationships, to continue, require an act of sorrow and forgiveness when we hurt someone else. If we are in a relationship with God, please explain why this human need, to be sorrowful and to ask for forgiveness, is no longer required with God...

So true. Confession is good for the soul....there is really nothing more humbling when you stop to think about it, and man can always use a good dose of humility.

Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[DarcyLu]

if it was simply telling a good friend and/or a family member that you messed up and confessed to them of your sin, then that's fine, but that is not what this is referring to, Catholic confessions to a priest are unnecessary and not Bibical, our intercessor is Jesus and there is no need for any other intercessor, although i do agree, God made us to have relationships with others and we should pray for others.

 

[francisdesales]

if it was simply telling a good friend and/or a family member that you messed up and confessed to them of your sin, then that's fine, but that is not what this is referring to, Catholic confessions to a priest are unnecessary and not Bibical, our intercessor is Jesus and there is no need for any other intercessor, although i do agree, God made us to have relationships with others and we should pray for others.

DarcyLu,

I would be happy to explain our point of view, and then you can judge whether it is Scriptural or not based upon what I tell you. If you desire further discussion and keep an open mind (and I promise not to judge you or your decisions), I would invite you to request to take this to the "debate" section. We don't have to debate, but at that section of christianforums, we are free to discuss anything without offending others who are scandalized by their incomplete knowledge of the Catholic Church. I will find out the procedure, if you are willing.

Or you can feel free to PM me. I will answer all of your questions there, including the above response you made.

In Christ,

Joe

 

[francisdesales]

ALL human relationships, to continue, require an act of sorrow and forgiveness when we hurt someone else. If we are in a relationship with God, please explain why this human need, to be sorrowful and to ask for forgiveness, is no longer required with God...

So true. Confession is good for the soul....there is really nothing more humbling when you stop to think about it, and man can always use a good dose of humility.

Indeed, I know I can. I think speaking in confidence to another person about a problem we have is always better than "admitting it" to yourself and thinking all is well. :yes

Regards

 

[glorydaz]

ALL human relationships, to continue, require an act of sorrow and forgiveness when we hurt someone else. If we are in a relationship with God, please explain why this human need, to be sorrowful and to ask for forgiveness, is no longer required with God...

So true. Confession is good for the soul....there is really nothing more humbling when you stop to think about it, and man can always use a good dose of humility.

Indeed, I know I can. I think speaking in confidence to another person about a problem we have is always better than "admitting it" to yourself and thinking all is well. :yes

Regards

It puts me in mind of confessing Jesus with our mouth.

It takes an act of faith to speak something out loud in the hearing of another to effectuate the blessing that just can't be gotten any other way. If we offend a brother, for instance, and don't go to him, we rob him of the opportunity to forgive us. Our pride may allow us to admit our fault in secret, but it fights against admitting it out in the open. It's certainly easier to keep it to ourselves, but we're to walk in the light in all things.

 

[Rick W]

Discussion of confession has been moved to the 1 on 1 debate forum in the spirit of discussion between DarcyLu and francisdesales.
This was handled by them in a most civil manner, a prime example of cooperation between two members with conflicting views. I'd like to thank them again for the way they handled this issue. :yes


In the meantime the thread should continue on topic.

totopic

 

[Cornelius]

So how much can we add to the Word of God and still say its the Word of God?