AnotherRaptureQuestion

[D4Christ]

The 'sign' that Christ was in heaven and therefor a true prophet was the destruction, possibly even a reference to smoke of the burning sacrifice. Lev 21;9

Interesting. I always thought this "sign" Christ spoke about was a direct answer to a direct question that his disciples asked Him.

Matth 24:
3 Later, Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and said, “Tell us, when will all this happen? What sign will signal your return and the end of the world?...

To which Christ responded and told them about the signs of the sun, moon and stars which is followed by his sign in the heavens and then by people mourning. I guess I could chalk it up to a coininkdink if they same signs didn't appear in Rev and the people hadn't had the same "fear" reaction.

I guess the real question is, if everything Christ says isn't really what He means, then how are we trust anything the scritpures tell us? It's not really an issue for me but I guess for some it could be confusing.

Blessings,
Dee

 

[D4Christ]

I was hoping it would take longer to get so far from the topic,,,obviously no one of the local futurist camp cared to engage.

Sorry...didn't realize having a rapture "discussion" on a thread about the rapture was getting off topic.

 

[Hitch]

Interesting. I always thought this "sign" Christ spoke about was a direct answer to a direct question that his disciples asked Him.

So what?

To which Christ responded and told them about the signs of the sun, moon and stars which is followed by his sign in the heavens and then by people mourning. I guess I could chalk it up to a coininkdink if they same signs didn't appear in Rev and the people hadn't had the same "fear" reaction.

And the bible says the sun rises and the first century believers turned the world upside down.

Literalism has its place .

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.



But you're not really a literalist are you?

I guess the real question is, if everything Christ says isn't really what He means, then how are we trust anything the scritpures tell us? It's not really an issue for me but I guess for some it could be confusing.

Blessings,
Dee

Well some things are beyond your capabilities.

 

[D4Christ]

So what? And the bible says the sun rises and the first century believers turned the world upside down.

Literalism has its place .

1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.



But you're not really a literalist are you? Well some things are beyond your capabilities.

You are right. It's obvious that it's beyond my capabilities to have an mature discussion on a "christian" forum with someone who needs to be sarcastic at every turn. You really need to check that.

"Go from the presence of the foolish man when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge." --Father Majesky from "All in the Family"

Dee

 

[Hitch]

You are right. It's obvious that it's beyond my capabilities to have an mature discussion on a "christian" forum with someone who needs to be sarcastic at every turn. You really need to check that.

On the other hand
pseudo literalism has no place.

"Go from the presence of the foolish man when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge." --Father Majesky from "All in the Family"

Dee

 

[jasoncran]

Hi Jason,

I agree...we shouldn't put words or meaning where they don't belong. The first thing John states is that he saw "thrones". Then he states those on the throne had the authority to judge (describing what he saw on the thrones). By using "and" John is stating in addition to what he already described, he saw the souls of the beheaded. If John wanted to say that the only ones on the throne were those beheaded, why didn't he do that? There was no reason to repeat "I saw" and he doesn't do it in any of his other statements. John often clarifies his "I saw" statements in other verses. For example...

We understand that the "to them" is pointing back to the seven angels. John doesn't use "I saw" again because his 2nd clause is clarifying what he "saw" in his first clause. However, John uses "I saw" throughout his vision each time he introduces a new element into his description. If the people on the throne were only those beheaded, John could have followed his own style of writing to convey this. He could have written...​

or....




He could have done this but he didn't. Instead he uses "I saw" twice. It is quite possible that the "beheaded" he saw were also on the thrones, but his statement does not allow us to conclude that those he saw on the throne with judgement authority had to be beheaded. John's writing style seems to suggest that he would have clarified the 1st clause without using "I saw" again if his intention was to clarify that those on the throne with judgement were only the beheaded. If both groups before and after the "and" are the same then using "I saw" is completely unecessary and contrary to John's writing style.


Blessings,
Dee

well let me state it this way.

does it make sense to have a church that is the real deal and doing what god says to do, then remove it and then put another one that has no expercience to do what? be a light until the nations.

God says if you live for me ye shall suffer, while this doesnt mean we are going to be beheaded but we shouldnt be loved by the world either.

the world hated him that saved us, it shall hate us. also these same jews that we love will indeed turn on us and kill us in your interpretation.

synthesis is rights its about the lord not the church and revalation is just that. God's judgement and righteousnes being shown.

the images and the languages are of a most ot style of recording similiar to the priestly recording of them or the prophets.

 

[D4Christ]

well let me state it this way.

does it make sense to have a church that is the real deal and doing what god says to do, then remove it and then put another one that has no expercience to do what? be a light until the nations.

To question the removal of the church at the rapture prior to God unleashing His wrath is to question scriptures. But be clear on this....after the rapture the world will love and worship the beast. The world does not want the light and they will openly hate God as scriptures describe. There will be few who are able to fight the deception of the enemy and turn to God. It will be hard but not impossible.

God says if you live for me ye shall suffer, while this doesnt mean we are going to be beheaded but we shouldnt be loved by the world either.

I never said we would be loved by the world.

the world hated him that saved us, it shall hate us. also these same jews that we love will indeed turn on us and kill us in your interpretation.

You don't really understand my interpretation. I never said the Jews would kill us or have anything to do with facilitating the GT.

synthesis is rights its about the lord not the church and revalation is just that. God's judgement and righteousnes being shown.

Good for synthesis.

the images and the languages are of a most ot style of recording similiar to the priestly recording of them or the prophets.

Ok. God still gives us the ability to rightly divide the word of Truth.

Blessings,
Dee

 

[jasoncran]

actually its god that lead me to that conclusion on the imagery and

noah was raptured from the earth was he. he was protected but didnt die nor was transformed.

if there was a blood moon on pentacost then one could calculate that exact date of that event.

next does it make sense for god to pour his wrath on the earth and then once again do it for them same sinners who didnt repent?if the wrath that was poured on the earth wont make you repent then nothing will(in that context of yours). so who will be these sinners in the millenium, and per luke 21 that lists that signs and before them the jews do indeed kill the believers.

luke

12But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

a brief diversion to which culture wrote the bible and also had the language and expression in it. if you say jews then you need to understand what i am saying. once i was like you die hard dispy. i began
to reasearch what they said and what you said. and here i am

case in point

And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.

2And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
8Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth

and in revalation on the two witnesses.

Revelation 11


1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

note the similitary. i intend to delve into that and seek what it does say. but one must also know what the parables were about and they werent in the most blessings to isreal but of judgment.

 

[Stormcrow]

To question the removal of the church at the rapture prior to God unleashing His wrath is to question scriptures.

So when Noah entered the Ark, who was "taken?"

Luke tells us who the "taken" were and what it meant to be "taken."

{26} "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: {27} they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. {28} "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; {29} but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. Luke 17:26-29 (NASB)

{34} I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. {35} Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. {36} Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. {37} And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Luke 17:34-37 (KJV)

The "taken" are not "raptured:" they are killed; their bodies gathered into a place where the vultures will gather to feed on their corpses. Christ is depicting judgment here, and those "who are left" are like Noah and Lot.

This scene of death by judgment is paralleled in Revelation:

{17} Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God, {18} so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great." {19} And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. Revelation 19:17-19 (NASB)

Most people make the mistake of trying to read Matthew 24 by itself. It has to be viewed in the context of what Christ was telling the chief priests, scribes, and Pharisees from the moment He entered Jerusalem for His last Passover.

To understand what Christ was talking about in Matthew 24, start reading in Matthew 21 and read all the way through to Matthew 26:1. Everything written from Matthew 21 through Matthew 23 prompts the Olivet Discourse, which goes all the way through Matthew 26:1. I challenge you to read this section of Matthew (chapters 21-26:1) again putting what you've been taught about it aside: the Dispensational/Fundamentalist interpretation of these chapters is completely and egregiously wrong.

Happy thanksgiving!

 

[Vic C.]

Jason and myself have had this discussion a couple of times. The Scriptures suggest protection, not removal (rapture). Jesus prayed to the Father here:

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Also, if you go to Revelation 3:10, keep is used the same way; it suggests protection, not removal.

We are not to be subjected to wrath, as it says here:

1 Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

But again, there is no reference to any removal either.

Finally,

noah was raptured from the earth was he. he was protected but didnt die nor was transformed.

Nope, didn't die. Transformation, well, not as a Christian would define it. ;) Raptured? Nope, he and his family never left the earth. Those "left behind" were taken from the earth via physical death in the Flood.

He and his family were protected though, and put right back on dry ground when the flood receded.

2 Pet 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

 

[reba]

To question the removal of the church at the rapture prior to God unleashing His wrath is to question scriptures. But be clear on this....after the rapture the world will love and worship the beast. The world does not want the light and they will openly hate God as scriptures describe. There will be few who are able to fight the deception of the enemy and turn to God. It will be hard but not impossible.
........
Blessings,
Dee

The world already loves/worships the beast. The world already doesn't want the light. The world openly hates God today and yesterday.

 

[Hitch]

The world already loves/worships the beast. The world already doesn't want the light. The world openly hates God today and yesterday.

Yup.

 

[Hitch]

To understand what Christ was talking about in Matthew 24, start reading in Matthew 21 and read all the way through to Matthew 26:1. Everything written from Matthew 21 through Matthew 23 prompts the Olivet Discourse, which goes all the way through Matthew 26:1. I challenge you to read this section of Matthew (chapters 21-26:1) again putting what you've been taught about it aside: the Dispensational/Fundamentalist interpretation of these chapters is completely and egregiously wrong.

Happy thanksgiving!

I dont see how it could be more obvious. In all history Jesus walked among first century jewish apostates, the only men capable of the regicide.

 

[warhorse]

Was the rapture imminent in April of 1948?

No !!!
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come] except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[smaller]

The world already loves/worships the beast. The world already doesn't want the light. The world openly hates God today and yesterday.

Ecclesiastes 3:18
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Any takers on this God given sight yet?

I didn't think so.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Hitch]

No !!!
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come] except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So in your view all who have taught the rapture could happen any moment were in error and could not have received that from the Holy Spirit, correct?

 

[D4Christ]

So when Noah entered the Ark, who was "taken?"

Luke tells us who the "taken" were and what it meant to be "taken."

I see you quoted Luke and focused on "they" to prove who was taken. But a simple grammatical look at the sentence structure doesn't show the taken were killed. The main point of using "they" is to show that people are surprised by the Lord's return. We are even warned about this in 1 Thess 4 and 5. Thess tells those expecting the rapture not to be caught off guard when this day arrives and that they shouldn't be surprised.

1 Thess 4 13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died.
15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.
1 Thess 5

1 Now concerning how and when all this will happen, dear brothers and sisters, we don’t really need to write you. 2 For you know quite well that the day of the Lord’s return will come unexpectedly, like a thief in the night. 3 When people are saying, “Everything is peaceful and secure,” then disaster will fall on them as suddenly as a pregnant woman’s labor pains begin. And there will be no escape.
4 But you aren’t in the dark about these things, dear brothers and sisters, and you won’t be surprised when the day of the Lord comes like a thief. 5 For you are all children of the light and of the day; we don’t belong to darkness and night. 6 So be on your guard, not asleep like the others. Stay alert and be clearheaded. 7 Night is the time when people sleep and drinkers get drunk. 8 But let us who live in the light be clearheaded, protected by the armor of faith and love, and wearing as our helmet the confidence of our salvation. 9 For God chose to save us through our Lord Jesus Christ, not to pour out his anger on us. 10 Christ died for us so that, whether we are dead or alive when he returns, we can live with him forever. 11 So encourage each other and build each other up, just as you are already doing.

This passage clearly states that whether dead or alive, believers will meet the Lord in the air. Then in regards to when this happens believers are told that they already know the DOTL will happen unexpectedly like a thief in the night. There is an obvious connection between the DOTL and the rapture.

The DOTL is a day of God's wrath and anger. People will think everything is peaceful and then will be suddenly hit with destruction. Yet Paul, tells us that although this day will catch those who belong to the dark off guard, those who belong to the Light won't be surprised. He also tells us that true believers should have confidence in their salvation because God will not pour His anger on them. So believers are around long enough to know the DOTL has occured, but will be caught in the air (raptured) before the wrath is unleased.

Luke 17 is echoing the same sentiment...when the Lord returns people/they will be surprised because for most people it is business as usual. Luke then cites serveral examples.

26 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 27 In those days, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat and the flood came and destroyed them all.
28 “And the world will be as it was in the days of Lot. People went about their daily business—eating and drinking, buying and selling, farming and building—29 until the morning Lot left Sodom. Then fire and burning sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Yes, it will be ‘business as usual’ right up to the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

31 On that day a person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. A person out in the field must not return home. 32 Remember what happened to Lot’s wife! 33 If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it. 34 That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding flour together at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.

In verse 26 Luke states, "when the Son of Man returns"....the very same topic that is discussed in 1 Thess 4 and 5. And just like in Thess we learn that life is going on as usual when people are suprised by the Lord's return. Yet Thess clearly states that on the day believers are caught up in the air to meet the Lord, those in the dark will be surprised by His arrival. It is clear in Thess that believers are leaving this world and being taken into the air upon the Lord's arrival. Luke, after mirroring the surprise those in darkness will face upon the Lords return that we read about in Thess then states, one will be taken and the other left. This is in essence what will happen when believers are taken in the air....unbelievers will be left...left to face the wrath of God in the DOTL.

It's also interesting to note that in the cases of Noah and Lot, the Lord sent (or took) them both to other places for safety. Those left behind...those who refused to get on the boat and those who did not leave Sodom....were destroyed.

I challenge you to read this section of Matthew (chapters 21-26:1) again putting what you've been taught about it aside: the Dispensational/Fundamentalist interpretation of these chapters is completely and egregiously wrong.

I would challenge you to not assume how I came to my knowlege. I'm not as big a fan of "scholars" and name dropping as many seem to be on this forum. I take no credit for what I have learned by studying the Word and allowing the HS to teach me. There is always room to grow and if another's arguement makes sense then I adapt. But if something reads "A" then I won't allow someone to tell me it's really "C". I think we will answer to God for letting someone sway us from what is plainly written in His Word.

Blessings,
Dee

 

[Sinthesis]

Ecclesiastes 3:18
I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

Any takers on this God given sight yet?

I didn't think so.

enjoy!

smaller

Of course you don't think so. But perhaps you should ponder what Nebuchadnezzar was taught on this subject.

 

[Stormcrow]

But a simple grammatical look at the sentence structure doesn't show the taken were killed.

No? Then look at Matthew:

{37} "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. {38} "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, {39} and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. {40} "Then [at the coming of the Son of Man] there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. {41} "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. Matthew 24:37-41 (NASB)

It's patently clear in this passage (as it was in Luke's) who the "taken" are: those who were killed by the flood. This is NOT a passage about those who were saved from the flood, but those who were destroyed by it. And Christ compares His second coming to this very same event! It is about Christ's judgment falling on those who killed Him, NOT about taking the church out of tribulation.

This passage clearly states that whether dead or alive, believers will meet the Lord in the air. Then in regards to when this happens believers are told that they already know the DOTL will happen unexpectedly like a thief in the night. There is an obvious connection between the DOTL and the rapture.

The DOTL is a day of God's wrath and anger.

Yes, and what I'm trying to get you to see is that the Day of the Lord came upon Jerusalem when it was destroyed by the Romans. This is the "great tribulation" both Daniel and Christ point to: the end of God's unique covenental relationship with Israel.

Furthermore, if you're going to look at sentence structure, then please tell me who the "we" are in I Thessalonians 4:13-18. (Hint: Paul wasn't writing this to us!)

Who was this resurrection (not rapture) for? It's answered in Daniel:

{1} "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. {2} "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. {3} "Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. Daniel 12:1-3 (NASB)

I don't see a single mention of a single Gentile in this passage. God didn't have any covenants with the heathen nations surrounding Israel.

Finally, (assuming you are pre-trib), what say you of these passages?

{39} "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. {40} "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." John 6:39-40 (NASB)

{44} "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44 (NASB)

{54} "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:54 (NASB)

{24} Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." John 11:24 (NASB)

{48} "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. John 12:48 (NASB)

His second coming coincides with "the last day" which is a time of resurrection and judgment:

{30} "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. {31} "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Matthew 24:30-31 (NASB)

{31} "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. Matthew 25:31 (NASB)

His second coming was not to "rapture" the church. It was to wage war on those who crucified Him, resurrect the holy and wicked alike, and judge them from "His glorious throne."

 

[smaller]

Of course you don't think so. But perhaps you should ponder what Nebuchadnezzar was taught on this subject.

I accept the disclosure personally. How about you?

???