Answer to Church Division

[ezrider]

This is in response to the thread Church Division by JimJib, which has been closed.

The first thought that I have; is it not expected that we should see division? In the parable of the wheat and tares, the instruction was to let the wheat and the tares grow together until the time of the harvest so as to not harm the wheat while gathering the tares. This is because in their infancy, the wheat and the tares look identical and indistinguishable; but as they mature their characteristics become more identifiable as they are divided and separated for the time of the harvest. Also, consider Luke 12:51 where Jesus said “Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.†So when it comes to the division in the church that you speak of, who’s work is it of?

But now to your main question: You want a simple and practical solution to stem the tide of division and help the church find unification in a singular faith again? Then there is a simple and practical answer: put away your Bibles and become what the Lord has desired you to be. People are far to dependent on the scriptures, and have placed their faith in the Bible far more than they have their faith in Christ. Because of this misplaced faith, people argue over the scriptures and defend their own interpretations and high mindedness, condemning those who would disagree, while none of it serves the body of Christ or the gospel of the Kingdom. So put away your Bibles, and learn to express your faith and your relationship with Christ from your heart instead of words from a book.

In the garden of Eden, the Lord instructed Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for in the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die. The Bible is a tree of knowledge of good and evil; eat of the fruit and you shall become as gods. It is a tree pleasant to the eyes, a tree to be desired, one that shall make you wise, whose only end is death. Now all of the division in the churches originate with the written letter, a disagreement of interpretation or the simple translation of a word, yet the scripture says that the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life. Now if the spirit of the Lord has come upon you, why do you then return again to the tree of knowledge to satisfy your hunger?

As the Lord placed the Cherubim in the garden to prevent the way to the tree of life, the Bible too can be a flaming sword that turns every which way to keep the way to the tree of life. When the same scripture is interpreted in four different ways, and creates four different divisions, is that not a flame that turns every which way? When you let the Bible define your relationship with God, then are you any different that the children of Israel when they came up to mount Sinai, and chose not to hear the word of the Lord, but rather that they would listen to Moses instead? If your relationship with the Lord comes from a book, how will you every hear the word of God in your heart? We are to be a new creation, made in the image of Christ; not in the image of the Bible. We are to be the gospel of the kingdom, not just quote the gospel.

Do you need the Bible so you can show mercy? Do you need the Bible to love your neighbor as you would yourself? How can quoting the Bible demonstrate your works toward loving your enemy. When Jesus said what you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me, take that to heart. When you see a homeless person on the street, can you look upon him with the same compassion as you would your Lord? When you come face to face with a gay man, can you treat him as if he were Jesus? Or would that tare within you reach for the Bible and quote some scripture about homosexuality being a sin? What you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me.

Now incase anyone gets the idea that I am disparaging the Bible, I am not. But if your desire is for unity and not division, then you must put aside the Bible and go on a journey into the spiritual wilderness and fast from the scriptures until you learn to hear the spirit of Christ within your heart. Become the living gospel for the here and now. Learn to express your passion and your faith in your own word, and not just words form a book. You don’t need the Bible to do good, and when you can set aside the Bible and express your beliefs in your own works, no one can call you a hypocrite; and the message might just get through.

 

[Grazer]

I can't find a standing ovation emoticon so here's a :beer: instead

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mitspa]

This is in response to the thread Church Division by JimJib, which has been closed.

The first thought that I have; is it not expected that we should see division? In the parable of the wheat and tares, the instruction was to let the wheat and the tares grow together until the time of the harvest so as to not harm the wheat while gathering the tares. This is because in their infancy, the wheat and the tares look identical and indistinguishable; but as they mature their characteristics become more identifiable as they are divided and separated for the time of the harvest. Also, consider Luke 12:51 where Jesus said “Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.†So when it comes to the division in the church that you speak of, who’s work is it of?

But now to your main question: You want a simple and practical solution to stem the tide of division and help the church find unification in a singular faith again? Then there is a simple and practical answer: put away your Bibles and become what the Lord has desired you to be. People are far to dependent on the scriptures, and have placed their faith in the Bible far more than they have their faith in Christ. Because of this misplaced faith, people argue over the scriptures and defend their own interpretations and high mindedness, condemning those who would disagree, while none of it serves the body of Christ or the gospel of the Kingdom. So put away your Bibles, and learn to express your faith and your relationship with Christ from your heart instead of words from a book.

In the garden of Eden, the Lord instructed Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for in the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die. The Bible is a tree of knowledge of good and evil; eat of the fruit and you shall become as gods. It is a tree pleasant to the eyes, a tree to be desired, one that shall make you wise, whose only end is death. Now all of the division in the churches originate with the written letter, a disagreement of interpretation or the simple translation of a word, yet the scripture says that the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life. Now if the spirit of the Lord has come upon you, why do you then return again to the tree of knowledge to satisfy your hunger?

As the Lord placed the Cherubim in the garden to prevent the way to the tree of life, the Bible too can be a flaming sword that turns every which way to keep the way to the tree of life. When the same scripture is interpreted in four different ways, and creates four different divisions, is that not a flame that turns every which way? When you let the Bible define your relationship with God, then are you any different that the children of Israel when they came up to mount Sinai, and chose not to hear the word of the Lord, but rather that they would listen to Moses instead? If your relationship with the Lord comes from a book, how will you every hear the word of God in your heart? We are to be a new creation, made in the image of Christ; not in the image of the Bible. We are to be the gospel of the kingdom, not just quote the gospel.

Do you need the Bible so you can show mercy? Do you need the Bible to love your neighbor as you would yourself? How can quoting the Bible demonstrate your works toward loving your enemy. When Jesus said what you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me, take that to heart. When you see a homeless person on the street, can you look upon him with the same compassion as you would your Lord? When you come face to face with a gay man, can you treat him as if he were Jesus? Or would that tare within you reach for the Bible and quote some scripture about homosexuality being a sin? What you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me.

Now incase anyone gets the idea that I am disparaging the Bible, I am not. But if your desire is for unity and not division, then you must put aside the Bible and go on a journey into the spiritual wilderness and fast from the scriptures until you learn to hear the spirit of Christ within your heart. Become the living gospel for the here and now. Learn to express your passion and your faith in your own word, and not just words form a book. You don’t need the Bible to do good, and when you can set aside the Bible and express your beliefs in your own works, no one can call you a hypocrite; and the message might just get through.

I agree with your post, the purpose of the scriptures is to bring the mind of the reader into agreement with the Spirit, which is Christ, then to walk always "by the Spirit". Its seems there is nothing greater than the Word of God when held in faith, and nothing worse when religions and carnal people seek its authority. The real reason I had to respond to your post, was that you seem to understand the "flaming swords"! It seems clear to me this is the "letter" vs the "Spirit"
I wonder if you have found the "Tree of Life" ? Its sounds as if you have!
God Bless- Mitspa

 

[ezra]

the bible should be and is our guide to unity. it speaks of unity all through the scriptures psalms 133... i have to agree man has read the Bible and based his doctrine belief from that. problem is they take it to a degree of division. example denominations.. mine is right and yours is wrong. mine says the ladies must wear skirts dresses not cut your hair. as a visible sign of Holiness.. how soon we forget Holiness. is from the heart not the dress. that is just one example . i must admit until i had read ezrider post. i had not thought of it that way. do we humans have a way of botching things up or what. the above on the dress can go with the baptist, Methodist etc..... we need to be

 

[smaller]

This is in response to the thread Church Division by JimJib, which has been closed.

The first thought that I have; is it not expected that we should see division? In the parable of the wheat and tares, the instruction was to let the wheat and the tares grow together until the time of the harvest so as to not harm the wheat while gathering the tares. This is because in their infancy, the wheat and the tares look identical and indistinguishable; but as they mature their characteristics become more identifiable as they are divided and separated for the time of the harvest. Also, consider Luke 12:51 where Jesus said “Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division.†So when it comes to the division in the church that you speak of, who’s work is it of?

But now to your main question: You want a simple and practical solution to stem the tide of division and help the church find unification in a singular faith again? Then there is a simple and practical answer: put away your Bibles and become what the Lord has desired you to be. People are far to dependent on the scriptures, and have placed their faith in the Bible far more than they have their faith in Christ. Because of this misplaced faith, people argue over the scriptures and defend their own interpretations and high mindedness, condemning those who would disagree, while none of it serves the body of Christ or the gospel of the Kingdom. So put away your Bibles, and learn to express your faith and your relationship with Christ from your heart instead of words from a book.

In the garden of Eden, the Lord instructed Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, for in the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die. The Bible is a tree of knowledge of good and evil; eat of the fruit and you shall become as gods. It is a tree pleasant to the eyes, a tree to be desired, one that shall make you wise, whose only end is death. Now all of the division in the churches originate with the written letter, a disagreement of interpretation or the simple translation of a word, yet the scripture says that the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life. Now if the spirit of the Lord has come upon you, why do you then return again to the tree of knowledge to satisfy your hunger?

As the Lord placed the Cherubim in the garden to prevent the way to the tree of life, the Bible too can be a flaming sword that turns every which way to keep the way to the tree of life. When the same scripture is interpreted in four different ways, and creates four different divisions, is that not a flame that turns every which way? When you let the Bible define your relationship with God, then are you any different that the children of Israel when they came up to mount Sinai, and chose not to hear the word of the Lord, but rather that they would listen to Moses instead? If your relationship with the Lord comes from a book, how will you every hear the word of God in your heart? We are to be a new creation, made in the image of Christ; not in the image of the Bible. We are to be the gospel of the kingdom, not just quote the gospel.

Do you need the Bible so you can show mercy? Do you need the Bible to love your neighbor as you would yourself? How can quoting the Bible demonstrate your works toward loving your enemy. When Jesus said what you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me, take that to heart. When you see a homeless person on the street, can you look upon him with the same compassion as you would your Lord? When you come face to face with a gay man, can you treat him as if he were Jesus? Or would that tare within you reach for the Bible and quote some scripture about homosexuality being a sin? What you have done unto the least of these, you have done unto me.

Now incase anyone gets the idea that I am disparaging the Bible, I am not. But if your desire is for unity and not division, then you must put aside the Bible and go on a journey into the spiritual wilderness and fast from the scriptures until you learn to hear the spirit of Christ within your heart. Become the living gospel for the here and now. Learn to express your passion and your faith in your own word, and not just words form a book. You don’t need the Bible to do good, and when you can set aside the Bible and express your beliefs in your own works, no one can call you a hypocrite; and the message might just get through.

I generally agree with your intentions in the above, in particular the highlighted BLUE and more importantly the location of the TARE highlighted above. You are 1 in 1000 of believers who actually see the factual location of the tare is WITHIN US all.

We are to rule over the darkness in our own hearts, that TARE of the DEVIL, the children of the flesh, the carnally inclined mind, the children of the wicked one. Even though they can not be seen they are in fact very real and present in this present earth. Jesus showed this fact on nearly every page of the N.T.

Now, as to your statements about the Word of God being against any of what you describe above, it's not. Darkness clouds the readers minds and they can not see and will divide. This too is an open testimony to the facts and workings of the INTERNAL TARES. They just can't read and understand the simplicity of the text because to do so one has to be LED to confront the fact that we 'all' carry our own darkness, our own ENEMIES within our own hearts.

Once God in Christ sheds His Word light on this fact, a person will never read the text the same way again. They will in fact see much clearer. Not perfectly, but clearer.

To do that God Himself MUST lead them into His Truth on this particular matter. One can point to it all the day and it will never be seen because the tares in all of us 'resist' this fact.

Some will come out.

A generally excellent post above. Just excellent. Bravo to you in your life in all of those ways. And even if we do all we can, we still fall short. But as we understand our need for His Mercy and Grace that tends to both increase and to spill out to all others.

In this way the days of Noah will come when the waters of the Word flood the earth of our bodies. And as in the days of Lot when the wicked are BURNED.

These are in fact INTERNAL matters that begin within all of us, and do so by His Spirit.

I pray this for all my fellow believers. The flood and the fire begins within and does so by loving our neighbors as ourselves.

s

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

I generally agree with your intentions in the above, in particular the highlighted BLUE and more importantly the location of the TARE highlighted above. You are 1 in 1000 of believers who actually see the factual location of the tare is WITHIN US all.

We are to rule over the darkness in our own hearts, that TARE of the DEVIL, the children of the flesh, the carnally inclined mind, the children of the wicked one. Even though they can not be seen they are in fact very real and present in this present earth. Jesus showed this fact on nearly every page of the N.T.

Now, as to your statements about the Word of God being against any of what you describe above, it's not. Darkness clouds the readers minds and they can not see and will divide. This too is an open testimony to the facts and workings of the INTERNAL TARES. They just can't read and understand the simplicity of the text because to do so one has to be LED to confront the fact that we 'all' carry our own darkness, our own ENEMIES within our own hearts.

Once God in Christ sheds His Word light on this fact, a person will never read the text the same way again. They will in fact see much clearer. Not perfectly, but clearer.

To do that God Himself MUST lead them into His Truth on this particular matter. One can point to it all the day and it will never be seen because the tares in all of us 'resist' this fact.

Some will come out.

A generally excellent post above. Just excellent. Bravo to you in your life in all of those ways. And even if we do all we can, we still fall short. But as we understand our need for His Mercy and Grace that tends to both increase and to spill out to all others.

In this way the days of Noah will come when the waters of the Word flood the earth of our bodies. And as in the days of Lot when the wicked are BURNED.

These are in fact INTERNAL matters that begin within all of us, and do so by His Spirit.

I pray this for all my fellow believers. The flood and the fire begins within and does so by loving our neighbors as ourselves.

s

Well,bub, all the tares get rounded up and it is only them that get thrown into the fire after they are harvested. Anyhow that's the way Jesus tells it. Maybe he got it wrong, huh?

 

[smaller]

Well,bub, all the tares get rounded up and it is only them that get thrown into the fire after they are harvested. Anyhow that's the way Jesus tells it. Maybe he got it wrong, huh?

As stated prior Ted we all have both good works and bad works that will come to light regardless of our state of belief.

Spin however you want from there.

s