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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Apocalypse begins: The most advanced Bible software will be used to Gather the elect
- Thread starter mateus
- Start date
God has already given what is written that we prepare ourselves to know what is coming, but yet many reject His truth. If there were a pretrib rapture of the church then why would God just end all things at once after we are taken up. What would be the purpose of the seven trumpet and seven vial judgements. Below is what we need to expect to happen during the first six trumpets sounding that leads up to the son of perdition who takes his seat to deceive the world promising safety and provision as there will appear amazing signs and wonders that could deceive even the very elect of God if possible, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12; Matthew 24:24.
Rev Chapter 8-9 First six trumpets
Hail and fire can be likened unto meteors that fall from the sky as the brimstone God brought down from heaven striking those in Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19:24. A third of the trees and all the green grass are burned up which makes a third part of the world with a shortage of oxygen in the air that is created from the carbon dioxide from the trees and living plants. I would only imagine the drifting smoke itself would cause respiratory problems for many people.
Seeing that this is Global the intense fire and smoke from all the trees and grass burning can travel for miles causing much more damage throughout the nations. The trees that produce various healthy foods for our well being will become scarce. The green grasses that would probably include crops of wheat, barley, corn and so forth will be destroyed causing a shortage in food. The animals we depend on as a food source will also die as they are left without vegetation they need to live on.
This great mountain burning with fire could be another meteor or even a series of meteors sent down from heaven at one time, but on an extremely larger scale as the third part of the sea is destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it. The third part of the sea turned to blood by reason of all the animal life that is killed and those men, women and children who are on these ships that are destroyed. Take into consideration the disease that would spread from all the rotted sea life that is rotting away washing up on the shore and the flesh of those who were burned along with the ships.
These ships will more than likely be types of fuel tankers, merchant, fishing and luxury cruises ships traveling the waters. With the third of these ships being destroyed means a third part of the world’s fuel and food supply would be destroyed.
John saw in his vision a great star that is burning like a lamp that falls to earth. In John’s time torches were used as a light source so this star burning like a lamp or a torch could be that of a burning comet falling or a series of comets falling on earth. I can only think it to be many comets as they fall on the third part of rivers and streams as it poisons the third part of the earth’s fresh water supply and causes many to die from the bitter water they drink. This would also kill all fresh water fish leaving man without another food source.
This star is given a name called Wormwood because wormwood is a plant that can be potentially toxic in its pure form and has a bitter aroma to it. In large amounts, it can cause damage to the nervous system, resulting in convulsions, loss of muscle control, and sometimes death. Now we have a third part of the world without fresh water to drink.
With the third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened this will affect mans source of electricity and heat that is vital to keep a certain degree of the earth warm, and generated power in homes, hospitals and manufacturing plants including nuclear reactors.
Agriculture and navigation would be hard pressed as it takes the solar power from the sun to run the solar cells that produces the energy needed to run farming machinery and trucks to take the produce to manufacturing plants where the produce is then distributed to market.
Vehicles such as cars, ambulances, planes, trains and the list goes on need an energy source from the sun in order to run their engines. The darkness of the third part of the day would be roughly around eight hours of daylight being lost and total darkness of night as the moon and stars are illuminated by the sun at night. A flashlight would be useless to see in the dark as it needs energy from the sun to run the battery that turns the light on.
This much darkness would cause people to panic in the streets creating chaos as the love of many will wax cold, Matthew 24:12. Riots would break out causing looting and lose of life as those who have not will do anything in desperation to take from those who have much.
Rev Chapter 8-9 First six trumpets
Hail and fire can be likened unto meteors that fall from the sky as the brimstone God brought down from heaven striking those in Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19:24. A third of the trees and all the green grass are burned up which makes a third part of the world with a shortage of oxygen in the air that is created from the carbon dioxide from the trees and living plants. I would only imagine the drifting smoke itself would cause respiratory problems for many people.
Seeing that this is Global the intense fire and smoke from all the trees and grass burning can travel for miles causing much more damage throughout the nations. The trees that produce various healthy foods for our well being will become scarce. The green grasses that would probably include crops of wheat, barley, corn and so forth will be destroyed causing a shortage in food. The animals we depend on as a food source will also die as they are left without vegetation they need to live on.
This great mountain burning with fire could be another meteor or even a series of meteors sent down from heaven at one time, but on an extremely larger scale as the third part of the sea is destroyed along with sea life and the third part of the ships that sit in it. The third part of the sea turned to blood by reason of all the animal life that is killed and those men, women and children who are on these ships that are destroyed. Take into consideration the disease that would spread from all the rotted sea life that is rotting away washing up on the shore and the flesh of those who were burned along with the ships.
These ships will more than likely be types of fuel tankers, merchant, fishing and luxury cruises ships traveling the waters. With the third of these ships being destroyed means a third part of the world’s fuel and food supply would be destroyed.
John saw in his vision a great star that is burning like a lamp that falls to earth. In John’s time torches were used as a light source so this star burning like a lamp or a torch could be that of a burning comet falling or a series of comets falling on earth. I can only think it to be many comets as they fall on the third part of rivers and streams as it poisons the third part of the earth’s fresh water supply and causes many to die from the bitter water they drink. This would also kill all fresh water fish leaving man without another food source.
This star is given a name called Wormwood because wormwood is a plant that can be potentially toxic in its pure form and has a bitter aroma to it. In large amounts, it can cause damage to the nervous system, resulting in convulsions, loss of muscle control, and sometimes death. Now we have a third part of the world without fresh water to drink.
With the third part of the sun, moon and stars being darkened this will affect mans source of electricity and heat that is vital to keep a certain degree of the earth warm, and generated power in homes, hospitals and manufacturing plants including nuclear reactors.
Agriculture and navigation would be hard pressed as it takes the solar power from the sun to run the solar cells that produces the energy needed to run farming machinery and trucks to take the produce to manufacturing plants where the produce is then distributed to market.
Vehicles such as cars, ambulances, planes, trains and the list goes on need an energy source from the sun in order to run their engines. The darkness of the third part of the day would be roughly around eight hours of daylight being lost and total darkness of night as the moon and stars are illuminated by the sun at night. A flashlight would be useless to see in the dark as it needs energy from the sun to run the battery that turns the light on.
This much darkness would cause people to panic in the streets creating chaos as the love of many will wax cold, Matthew 24:12. Riots would break out causing looting and lose of life as those who have not will do anything in desperation to take from those who have much.
A
acts 28
Guest
Not if Elijah restores time back to the first century.
Sorry, but Elijah is dead in his grave and no one has ever been taken up to the third heaven where only God, Jesus and the angels are. John 3:13.
2 Chronicles Chapter 21 - Jehoram, being the son of Jehoshaphat, was 32 when he began his reign in Israel. He married Ahab's daughter and was a wicked king who reigned for eight years. According to scripture Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind, 2 Kings 2:11-13. The heaven Elijah went up to was only the first heaven being the atmosphere as there are three heavens described in scripture as the throne of God is in the third heaven. A whirlwind can only happen within the atmosphere of the first heaven. During the reign of Jehoram he received a letter from Elijah, 2 Chronicles 21:12-15. How could he receive a letter from Elijah if he was with God in the third heaven? Elijah being caught up to heaven is the same as Phillip being caught up in the first heaven and carried thirty miles away, Acts 8:39, 40. The only difference is that when the fifty men searched for Elijah they could not find him as he was translated further than their search. Phillip was found within the thirty mile radius where he was translated to.
Elijah lived during the time of King Ahab in 9th century B.C. Some people thought that Jesus was Elijah come back, but Jesus made it clear that John the Baptist is the Elijah that was promised to come before the great and terrible day of the Lord, Malachi 4:5, Luke 1:16, 17.
ezrider
Member
Well, that is what Jesus seemed to say.
Matthew 17:11-12
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Do you reject the words of Jesus?
Matthew 17:11-12
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Do you reject the words of Jesus?[/QUOTE]
Jesus was speaking of John the Baptist as He called him Elias. John the Baptist suffered and died a martyr's death and Jesus told His disciples that He too would suffer and die.
Matthew17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Do you reject the words of Jesus?[/QUOTE]
Jesus was speaking of John the Baptist as He called him Elias. John the Baptist suffered and died a martyr's death and Jesus told His disciples that He too would suffer and die.
Matthew17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
ezrider
Member
shall come - future tense
is come - present tense
So was Jesus saying John the Baptist shall come first again after he is come already?
Why didn't they know him? Perhaps because they were looking for someone who would call fire down upon their enemies? That is not the way to prepare the way of the Lord.
What Jesus spoke in vs. 10-12 is made very clear in vs. 13 that Jesus was speaking about John the Baptist who was the predecessor before Jesus came. John 3:25-30
A
acts 28
Guest
There is no 3rd Heaven yet. It will be the New Heavens, the 3rd Heaven chronologically. We now have the 2nd Heaven (and 2nd earth). The 1st Heaven, along with the 1st earth, which was paradise, was destroyed by water when Lucifer rebelled. see 2Pet 3:5, 7, 13. for these 3 heavens and earth, in order. Paradise will once again be enacted on the New, 3rd Earth, associated with the tree of life, Rev 2:7, Rev 22:2.
There are 3 places in God's universe, (1) The earth, (2) the created starry heavens, where the angels, good and bad, and Satan live, and where the New Jerusalem will descend from, and (3) the uncreated Heaven of Heavens, where God lives, Deu 10:14, 1Ki 8:27, 2 Chr 2:6, 6:18, Neh 9:6
The Bible says in several places that the next step in God's plan will be when Elijah comes and restores all things, Mal 4:5-6, Mt 17:11. To deny this is heresy.
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A
acts 28
Guest
You err, not knowing the scripture
Mt 11:14
"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come."
They didn't receive it (the Kingdom, vs 12), so John WASN'T Elijah
Mt 17:11-12
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
John would have been Elijah, but only if Israel had accepted Christ as the Messiah. They didn't accept Christ and they murdered John.
John the Baptist ABSOLUTELY was not Elijah. Why? Because it would have been stupid, if Israel didn't accept Christ and God didn't begat any stupid Sons. Because Israel's non-acceptance of Christ in the Gospels and Acts, Israel was set aside in 64AD, at Ac 28:28, and won't again be God's people until about 2064. Elijah (John) would have been twiddling his thumbs for this 2000 year all-Gentile period we're in now.
Most of Israel's future fulfillment of prophecy is dependent on Elijah's Coming and restoring ALL things. I even think he will restore the time back to the 1st century, but that's another story.
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There are three heavens:
First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere -which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven” (Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), “the eagles of heaven” (Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth.
Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens (Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29).
The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.
Third Heaven - This is where God, Jesus and the holy angels dwell plus the very breath of just men dwell as when we die it is that breath that returns back to God. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God (John 3:13).
Malachi 4:4-6 and Luke 1:11-17 are speaking of John the Baptist who came already in the same spirit and power that God gave Elijah. This is why scripture uses the name Elias/Elijah in correlation to John as being the very spirit that is God working through them him as He did Elijah.
The red parentheses are added by me for explanation of what Jesus said in Matthew 17:10-13 since some do not understand what is spoken by Jesus.
Matthew 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. (Jesus is speaking of John the Baptist being the predecessor that called all to repent so they will be restored in God's righteousness) 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. (Again calling John the Baptist Elias and because of his preaching of repentance and the kingdom of God he was beheaded as commanded by Herod because John reproved Herod for divorcing his wife and unlawfully taking Herodias as his wife.) Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. (Just as John the Baptist suffered and died a martyr's death Jesus said He too would suffer.) 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
A
acts 28
Guest
None of those 1st, 2nd, and 3rd terms, as you are using them, are Biblical, They are all assumptions and assumptions are truth's greatest enemy.
(1) The term "first Heaven" occurs once, in Rev 21:1, where it means "former" heaven
(2) The term "second Heaven" doesn't occur at all
(3) The term "third Heaven" occurs once, in 2Cor 12:2. It is associated with paradise, vs 4. It was seen by John in 2Cor 12:1-5, while in the Spirit, when he was shown and told what to write about Revelation. He is definitely shown the future 3rd Heaven and 3rd Earth, chronologically, associated with the tree of life Rev 22, which is associated with paradise, Rev 2:7 - ALL FUTURE.
Show me where Jesus Christ and the angels dwell in the same place
A
acts 28
Guest
Like all those verses say, John would have been Elijah IF Israel had accepted Christ. Israel didn't and John wasn't. There is no way you can say that John was definitely Elijah without wrecking havoc with the scriptures. To do so, you would have to say that God wasn't powerful enough to prevent John's murder. Therefore, because He lacked this power, prophecy is thrown out and God has to figure out a new way. Absurd!
I don't know what Elijah's restoration will be like but it says ALL things and that sounds HUGE to me. I think the world would know it when it happened. Of course, it is impossible that anything was done since 64AD, since that was when the nation of Israel was set aside and has ceased to exist for almost 2000 years. They'll once again be God's people in about 2064, That's when Elijah will get started.
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ezrider
Member
We have a problem here, because NEITHER John or Jesus preached THE GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD.
In fact the scripture record John as saying who hath warned you to flee from the wrath the come?
Luke 3:7
Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Likewise Jesus stopped short and shut up the scroll when he declared the acceptable day of the Lord, but did not speak of the day of vengeance.
Luke 4:17-21
And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Isaiah 61:1-4
The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me;
because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek;
he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives,
and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
and the day of vengeance of our God;
to comfort all that mourn;
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion,
to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning,
the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
that they might be called trees of righteousness,
the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.
And they shall build the old wastes,
they shall raise up the former desolations,
and they shall repair the waste cities,
the desolations of many generations.
Malachi 4:4-6
Remember ye the law of Moses my servant,
which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel,
with the statutes and judgments.
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children,
and the heart of the children to their fathers,
lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Those who abide in wrath, speak of God's wrath.
Acts 7:55, 56; Romans 8:34; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 3:1; Hebrews 1:3; Rev 5:11, 12; 7:11, 12; 8:1-3
Jesus was not yet given as a redemmer to the world when Elijah was alive. According to John 3:13 no one that has ever died is in heaven as it is only the breath that God breathed in us that goes back to Him, Genesis 2:7; 3:19; Ecc 12:7.
I never said John was Elijah, but that he had the same Spirit that Elijah had that is God's Holy Spirit that empowered them.
All things are in God's timing, even though man loves to set dates. The nation of Israel was never set aside as God has always been their God as He already saved a remnant of the people of Israel to a thousand generations that are His own, Deuteronomy 7:9; 1 Kings 19:18; Acts 2:38-41; Romans 11:4, 5; Rev 7:1-8
The Lord's day being the day of the Lord is a day of Gods great wrath being poured out on those who refuse to repent. John the Baptist spoke of this in Matthew 3:1-12.
It is always pointed out as the day at hand meaning in Gods timing in Rev 1:10. The phrase the day of the Lord” is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev 1:10). It is also alluded to in other passages (Revelation 6:17; 16:14).
A
acts 28
Guest
Except for those in Revelation, which are future, none of your quotes say anything about angels
turnorburn
Member
No third heaven?
II Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.