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Apology to the Catholics

Biblereader said:
I just finished a tour of a local Roman Catholic Church, and I must say, I UNDERSTAND WHY
there are millions of adherents.
First, if youre Catholic, is your church open every day of the week, and do you have the option
to have communion any day of the week?
Is your church pretty involved in feeding the hungry, and in campaigning against abortion?

Some things I saw, on my tour: the Catholic church is open every day.
they are family oriented, and have a sort of peer pressure against divorce, and a big
anti-abortion mindset.
They have a quiet sanctuary, where a person can go to pray, read their bible, and worship Jesus.
Quiet,not chatty.
They have priests available, 24 hours a day. For just about any spiritual crisis or need.
They offer communion EVERY day! If you can't go one day, not to worry, you can go at your convenience.
They show respect to the Bible. (even though it isn't the KJV) Respect, and piety.
They keep their children in the church services with the adults!
The kids learn how to keep quiet!

At my church, communion, or, the Lord's Supper, is, unpredictable, and whenever, and always at night.
Their doors are closed and locked, every day of the week, but Sunday and Wednesday. Don't get to church too early, cause the doors will still be locked.
Children in my church, up through teen years, are immediately taken to "kid's church", which is sometimes a separate building, away from the parents.
I wanted a pastor to visit me, once, when I was in the hospital for an operation. Whom did they send? Some kid, whom I had never seen, and who was much younger than me.
If the Baptist church would respect the Bible, preach against sin, talk about HELL once in a while, stick to the KJV, open it's doors, and be more reliable about the Lord's Supper, there would be a lot more faithful Baptists.
I must say that while all of these things are fine and good, most of the worlds religions have them. The mormons are famous for their family orientation. So what?

It does not matter how many neato programs a church has or how much "good" they are doing in the world. If they do not preach THE GOSPEL, it is all for nothing.

Give me a church without a building, that has no resources, that is unable to reach out to anyone. But if they preach the Word of God, and the full Gospel message, they are great with me.

The RCC does not fit that bill.
 
Rick Warren, in my opinion, is a tool of the devil, and a money grubber.

I really despise that kind of hate-filled talk, especially about a brother in Christ.
 
Biblereader said:
I see what you're saying, any obsessive compulsive behavior is a form of bondage.
Now, I don't see anywhere in the bible where we're to meet him naked.

:crazyeyes:


Please provide the bible verse you're talking about.

Excuse me? You fail to see that standing openly and honestly and transparently before the Father God is not standing "naked" before Him?

You have not read where Jesus tells us to go into our private rooms and get alone with God?

Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your [most] private room, and, closing the door, pray to your Father, Who is in secret; and your Father, Who sees in secret, will reward you in the open.


 
Potluck said:
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

The brethren are to come together in love, support and fellowship. If you've never fellowshipped then I suppose you've missed out on a large part of the power of God. There is intersession which when done as a group can be a very powerful weapon against Satan. Within a fellowship each supports the other in accountability, recognition of sin and help in dealing with it. This is not to say it's a blame game but rather many helping others in that one is not alone.

We are not to be individuals, self isolated, but to come together as one body, one spirit and one mind to worship one God. Paul has much to say about interaction as a group, as a congregation. The Holy Spirit was given to a group gathered in the upper chamber and not bestowed on individuals one here and one there. The last supper was the gathering of the disciples with Christ for the purpose of teaching. I could go on and on with purposes of support, worship, teaching and any other ministry one cares to mention.

It seems you oppose what may be termed "righteous dominion". I don't support that sort of thing either. But one can't just say to neglect gathering altogether because of some bad apples among the crop.

Divide and conquer is a ploy Satan knows well and uses much. And the secular systems of man would like nothing more than to disolve the unity among christians especially the unity found within a church. We are to be one body, not a bunch of parts scattered from here to yonder. And it's been said the family that worships together stays together. That holds true for people outside the ties of family. And again, there are congregations that separated for one thing or another but that's evidence of how effective and dangerous sin can be. Scripture has much to say about leaven for good reason... division. And isn't division what you're advocating?

If you can provide scripture whereby we are not to assemble under the spirit of God or scripture that states we must worship God only as separated individuals then please do so. Your views of bondage seem more rooted in opinion than in the Word of God.

Amen! Good post!
 
I grew up in a French Catholic family until the age of 13 when I converted to Seventh Day Adventist Protestant. Catholicism is my heritage.

I disagree with the church's doctrines but I must say that Biblereader does have good points.

I have yet to see the amount of reverence in a Protestant church like you do in a Catholic Church.

There is something awe inspiring about walking into a cathedral. There is comfort and nostalgia in Catholic ritual. The candles, the robes, the stained glass windows. Things like that appeal to me on some level.

About 16 years ago I was on a choir tour to the East of Canada and we went to the Notre Dame Cathedral in Montreal. It took your breath away. We had a song in our repretoire, an acappella 'Lux Aeterna' which was gothic and lots of clashing harmonies, that we got permission to sing on the steps going up to the 'holy place'.

Let me put it this way...the goosebumps on my arms were the size of goose eggs, it was such a fantastic experience. The priests came out from the back and listened and the 20 or so parishoners praying there, plus the priests applauded after we were done!

Let me put it another way...we also saw the original Canadian cast of Andrew Lloyd Webber's 'Phantom of the Opera' in the Pantages Theatre in Toronto and as amazing as that was, it didn't come close to the experience of singing that one song in the Cathedral.

It almost made me want to genuflect right there! How is that for irony...a Seventh Day Adventist college choir singing in the Cathedral of an organization they believe is the beast from Revelation 13. :-D
 
waitinontheLamb said:
I must say that while all of these things are fine and good, most of the worlds religions have them. The mormons are famous for their family orientation. So what?

It does not matter how many neato programs a church has or how much "good" they are doing in the world. If they do not preach THE GOSPEL, it is all for nothing.

Give me a church without a building, that has no resources, that is unable to reach out to anyone. But if they preach the Word of God, and the full Gospel message, they are great with me.

The RCC does not fit that bill.

You people are taking this thread and running all over the place with it!! Knock it off!
I STILL don't have a decent, KJV bible church to attend!! I am also AGAINST the "neato programs" in so many churches now. There's no use for all this craziness in the church, which includes indoctrination of ungodly Scriptures into the minds of youth.
AMEN! Preaching the KJV Gospel is all that matters. The full Gospel message is NOT being preached in many pulpits any more.
The RCC does not preach the KJV only Scripture, nor do they go by Sola Scriptura. Probably because it came from Martin Luther, whom the RCC dislikes intensely.
THE ONLY REASON I APOLOGIZED TO CATHOLICS, WAS, AFTER TOURING ONE OF THEIR CHURCHES, I SAW THAT THE ONE THING THAT HOLDS THEM TOGETHER , IMO, IS THEIR AVAILABILITY.
ARE THERE ANY PASTORS HERE, SOUTHERN BAPTIST PASTORS, WHO WILL OPEN THE DOORS OF THE CHURCH BUILDINGS MORE OFTEN, SO WE CAN GET AWAY FROM IT ALL, AND WORSHIP JESUS IN QUIET AND PEACE? AND, PLEASE, BAPTIST PASTOR, PUT KJV BIBLES IN THE PEWS.
 
guibox said:
I have yet to see the amount of reverence in a Protestant church

Good point. I wish there was less chatter in Baptist churches, and more focusing on prayer and worship.
 
There is something awe inspiring about walking into a cathedral. There is comfort and nostalgia in Catholic ritual. The candles, the robes, the stained glass windows. Things like that appeal to me on some level.

About 16 years ago I was on a choir tour to the East of Canada and we went to the Notre Dame Cathedral in Montreal. It took your breath away.

I don't get ANY comfort from candles, robes, and the ritual mass. NO sir! What I do like is reverencing Jesus, and the Holy Scriptures, and talking about the Scriptures alone. Not the pastor, pope, or committee in the church.
The stained glass windows originally were put up to help illiterate people know some bible stories.
I still like stained glass windows, not because only Catholic or Episcopal churches have them, but, because if they were taken out of the church, and put into a regular church, the message would still be Gospel. Good news. I mean the windows depicting the life of Jesus, not the life of others.
Notre Dame would take anyone's breath away! It's a magnificent work of architecture and art.
It is NOT mystical, it's just plain nice to look at, because no one makes things like that anymore.
No one uses their mind, much anymore, either. They let their "leaders" think for them.
I see this happening in Baptist churches, which scares me. The people in Sunday school trust their pastor and even choir director to do everything right.
They don't question anything.
 
Alabaster said:
Biblereader said:
I see what you're saying, any obsessive compulsive behavior is a form of bondage.
Now, I don't see anywhere in the bible where we're to meet him naked.

:crazyeyes:


Please provide the bible verse you're talking about.

Excuse me? You fail to see that standing openly and honestly and transparently before the Father God is not standing "naked" before Him?

You have not read where Jesus tells us to go into our private rooms and get alone with God?

Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your [most] private room, and, closing the door, pray to your Father, Who is in secret; and your Father, Who sees in secret, will reward you in the open.


Chill out, alabaster. Cut out the "excuse me" response, and we can talk.
We are ALL transparent to God. I was asking you, kind of as a joke, to show me the verse ....
oh, never mind.
Yes, I'm very familiar with that verse, let's put more of the Scripture related to it, here:
1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

This tells us that God knows our heart, and, we should only seek approval from Him, which I totally agree with.
Now, why are YOU using some ungodly version of the Holy Bible? What version is it?
Talk about divisions! Satan has gotten a lot of people who are basically socratic and aristotilian adherents, and made them make bible perversions.
The latin vulgate is wrong.
 
Biblereader said:
I just finished a tour of a local Roman Catholic Church, and I must say, I UNDERSTAND WHY
there are millions of adherents.
First, if youre Catholic, is your church open every day of the week, and do you have the option
to have communion any day of the week?
Is your church pretty involved in feeding the hungry, and in campaigning against abortion?

Some things I saw, on my tour: the Catholic church is open every day.
they are family oriented, and have a sort of peer pressure against divorce, and a big
anti-abortion mindset.
They have a quiet sanctuary, where a person can go to pray, read their bible, and worship Jesus.
Quiet,not chatty.
They have priests available, 24 hours a day. For just about any spiritual crisis or need.
They offer communion EVERY day! If you can't go one day, not to worry, you can go at your convenience.
They show respect to the Bible. (even though it isn't the KJV) Respect, and piety.
They keep their children in the church services with the adults!
The kids learn how to keep quiet!

At my church, communion, or, the Lord's Supper, is, unpredictable, and whenever, and always at night.
Their doors are closed and locked, every day of the week, but Sunday and Wednesday. Don't get to church too early, cause the doors will still be locked.
Children in my church, up through teen years, are immediately taken to "kid's church", which is sometimes a separate building, away from the parents.
I wanted a pastor to visit me, once, when I was in the hospital for an operation. Whom did they send? Some kid, whom I had never seen, and who was much younger than me.
If the Baptist church would respect the Bible, preach against sin, talk about HELL once in a while, stick to the KJV, open it's doors, and be more reliable about the Lord's Supper, there would be a lot more faithful Baptists.
It is deceptive to look on the outward appearance of things, especially in the times we are living in. The kingdom of God is found in the heart of a people who love the Lord above all else. I have seen man bow down to man in the catholic church, and have seen man play the mediator in place of Jesus Christ. This would sicken me, as would prayers being given up to a dead sinner who needed a savior, just like me.
There are demonic spirits set above these religious institutions who draw people in and delude the hearts of the undiscerning, making them think they are experiencing some divine visitation when in fact they've tresspassed God given boundries. People are falling left and right because they are looking for some man or institution to be their hero and lead them.

The gospel of Satan is not a system or revolutionary principles, nor yet a program of anarchy. It does not promote strife and war, but aims at peace and unity.
It seeks not to set the mother against her daughter nor the father against his son, but fosters the fraternal spirit whereby the human race is regarded as one great "brotherhood."
It does not seek to drag down the natural man, but to improve and uplift him. It advocates education and cultivation and appeals to "the best that is within us."
It aims to make this world such a comfortable and congenial habitat that Christ’s absence from it will not be felt and God will not be needed. It endeavors to occupy man so much with this world that he has no time or inclination to think of the world to come.
It propagates the principles of self-sacrifice, charity and benevolence, and is popular with the masses, because it ignores the solemn facts that by nature man is a fallen creature, alienated from the life of God, and dead in trespasses and sins, and that his only hope lies in being born again.

–A.W. Pink
 
ARE THERE ANY PASTORS HERE, SOUTHERN BAPTIST PASTORS, WHO WILL OPEN THE DOORS OF THE CHURCH BUILDINGS MORE OFTEN, SO WE CAN GET AWAY FROM IT ALL, AND WORSHIP JESUS IN QUIET AND PEACE? AND, PLEASE, BAPTIST PASTOR, PUT KJV BIBLES IN THE PEWS.

What's the point? Do it in your own house. Worship Jesus with quiet, yes,sometimes. But also with loud shouts and dance. It is commanded.

Regarding KJV--that's fine, but the more modern english is great. Easy for use with those who are unchurched and unsaved.
 
If we are spending quality time with Jesus in our homes and personal lives, other expectations will be deminished.
 
destiny said:
If we are spending quality time with Jesus in our homes and personal lives, other expectations will be deminished.

If we AREN"T spending quality time with God in our "closets" and living for Him in our personal lives, GOD'S expectations for me will NOT be REALIZED! He desires for us to produce FRUIT, FRUIT, and MORE FRUIT!!!
 
destiny said:
If we are spending quality time with Jesus in our homes and personal lives, other expectations will be deminished.


What other expectations? Be specific.
 
Biblereader said:
destiny said:
If we are spending quality time with Jesus in our homes and personal lives, other expectations will be deminished.


What other expectations? Be specific.

That's what I was wondering!
 
Biblereader said:
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying "let's all convert to Catholicism!" I AM saying, though, that the
Baptists have something to learn from the success of the Catholics.

Neither am I... I have disagreements with the denomination. I am actually a bit fearful of some of their customs as well. That said, I think Catholics along with many Protestants have alot to learn from Baptists about being very open to others about their faith. Baptists excel at sharing their faith in my opinion.
 
Veritas said:
Biblereader said:
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying "let's all convert to Catholicism!" I AM saying, though, that the
Baptists have something to learn from the success of the Catholics.

Neither am I... I have disagreements with the denomination. I am actually a bit fearful of some of their customs as well. That said, I think Catholics along with many Protestants have alot to learn from Baptists about being very open to others about their faith. Baptists excel at sharing their faith in my opinion.

Yes, Catholics do tend to be rather insular. Recently, though, some groups have been trying to emulate the attitude of door-to-door evangelists (We'll leave that up to you, whther it's a good thing or not :wink: )

We all have something we can learn from each other.
 
Laudate Dominum said:
Yes, Catholics do tend to be rather insular. Recently, though, some groups have been trying to emulate the attitude of door-to-door evangelists (We'll leave that up to you, whther it's a good thing or not )

We all have something we can learn from each other.

:)

I do think sometimes we are not given words by the Holy Spirit and it is better to simply let our actions speak.
 
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