[_ Old Earth _] Archaeology does it again...

[serapha]

[quote="Brutus/HisCatalyst":6f233]Serapha, I wasn't aware of the step by step excavation.

Asimov, you are giving examples of geographical locations. Weak Evidence. I gave examples of specific biblical items being uncovered. Strong proof.

No you didn't.

Noah's Ark has not been found. The chariot wheels are not the Pharoah's chariot wheels.

When I said earlier that the only person to have "found" these wheels was Ron Wyatt, I was right. Those pictures you showed me were from Ron Wyatt, who is a known fraud, and a liar.

So you don't have specific biblical items, you have a fraud.

A true story can produce actual items. We have Noah's Ark, the wheels of the chariots, the remains of Jericho, and even the Temple.

You dont' have the Ark, you don't have chariot wheels. Jericho is merely a City. I gave you the Isle of Crete, which has a city that was ruled by King Minos, who supposedly owned a Minotaur.

There is also the Oracle at Delphi, which Alexander the Great visited. This is a specific location told in many Greek Myths. Rome is a location, Rome actually existed, in case you weren't aware.

Shall I keep going?

Funny enough, your Noahs' Ark story is based on the Epic of Gilgamesh, a Sumerian myth. So really, you are trying to verify mythology.

Ron Wyatt may be a liar, but the Items are there. The Ark is right where the Bible says it is, Mount Ararat. You call these discover fraud's yet give nothing to support your speculations. The Man's a liar, well, the pictures are not.

The Epic of Gilgamesh is the mythological veiw of the story of Noah's ark. Yes it was most likely recorded before the Biblical account of Noah's ark, and I can't tell you why that is. Anyone knows that a good myth is based in reality. What makes the Bible more credible is the fact that we have Evidence of specific items and places. Until you can prove they are fraud, you do nothing but blow smoke.[/quote:6f233]


Helllo et. al.

Okay, I am going to step in to add some clarity here...

Ron Wyatt is not the only one who has searched for the Red Sea crossing and seen the choral reefs with the perpenticular growth. As the argument is presented, the only way to have perpendicular grown of choral is for it to have been attached to something that was perpendicular.


And, the Bible tells us that the ark landed in the mountains of Ararat, not necessarily on Mt. Ararat itself. If the "blob" that is recorded via satelitte (etc.) on Mt. Ararat is the ark, we will never know it. The fact of the age of the ark and that the cells of the wood have been eroded by moisture over the centuries, if it is the ark, upon human touch, the wood would crumble in the hand. The would be no way of removing the ark to restore it and it cannot be restored where it sits.


~serapha~

 

[serapha]

Besides that, Turkey isn't gong to let anyone touch "it".



~serapha~

 

[serapha]

Jericho is merely a City.

Well, let's be truthful... Jericho iswas two cities, the ancient city and the old city, which is understood in the biblical text concerning Jesus' trip to Jericho.

There is nothing at Jericho to discredit biblical accounts.



~serapha~


[/quote]

 

[Asimov]

Ron Wyatt is not the only one who has searched for the Red Sea crossing and seen the choral reefs with the perpenticular growth. As the argument is presented, the only way to have perpendicular grown of choral is for it to have been attached to something that was perpendicular.

Pretty soon you're gonna have one word per post, serapha. Address everything in one post, or it gets hard to quote you.

Serapha, I'm not denying that there are perpendicular growths at the bottom of the red sea. What my problem is that the intepretation of these growths seem to be a little...how should I put it....deceptive.

And like I've said before, these "artifacts" don't prove that these events happened exactly the way it was depicted in the Bible. Just like finding the city of Troy doesn't mean Achilles really existed, or that the events happened exactly the way the Iliad depicts them.

Same with the Oracle at Delphi.

And, the Bible tells us that the ark landed in the mountains of Ararat, not necessarily on Mt. Ararat itself.

I said that already.

If the "blob" that is recorded via satelitte (etc.) on Mt. Ararat is the ark, we will never know it. The fact of the age of the ark and that the cells of the wood have been eroded by moisture over the centuries, if it is the ark, upon human touch, the wood would crumble in the hand. The would be no way of removing the ark to restore it and it cannot be restored where it sits.

Serapha, that "blob" recorded via satellite looks like a rock formation.

 

[Asimov]

Jericho is merely a City.

Well, let's be truthful... Jericho iswas two cities, the ancient city and the old city, which is understood in the biblical text concerning Jesus' trip to Jericho.

There is nothing at Jericho to discredit biblical accounts.



~serapha~

[/quote]

Well, let's be truthful, if you accept supernatural events in the bible based on archaeological finds, then you must accept that they support other texts which claim supernatural activity, such as the Iliad.

 

[serapha]

Jericho is merely a City.

Well, let's be truthful... Jericho iswas two cities, the ancient city and the old city, which is understood in the biblical text concerning Jesus' trip to Jericho.

There is nothing at Jericho to discredit biblical accounts.



~serapha~

Well, let's be truthful, if you accept supernatural events in the bible based on archaeological finds, then you must accept that they support other texts which claim supernatural activity, such as the Iliad.[/quote]


HI there!


There's one little thought that doesn't seem to ever sink in...


The Iliad is mythology.... the Bible has fulfilled prophecy. There's a big difference in the literature that is being discussed.


Helllooooo.... when a book prophecies and that prophecy is fulfilled, it can no longer be considered on the same level as mythology.

~serapha~

 

[Asimov]

There's one little thought that doesn't seem to ever sink in...


The Iliad is mythology....

haha...I think you need to lay off the pills that increase the iron in your bloodstream, it seems to be affecting what you say.

the Bible has fulfilled prophecy. There's a big difference in the literature that is being discussed.
Helllooooo.... when a book prophecies and that prophecy is fulfilled, it can no longer be considered on the same level as mythology.

The Iliad contains prophecy. Odysseus' father consulted the Oracle, and that came true. Odysseus consulted the Oracle, that came true as well. There are many instances of characters consulting the Oracle who prophecises events that are fulfilled.

Even king Philip visited the Oracle about his son Alexander the Great, who told him that Alexander would become a great ruler.

Achilles was warned that if he went to Troy, he would gain fame, but he would die.

Amazing, I wonder why you don't accept the Iliad and other Greek Myths as fact too.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Answer in genesis is not the final authority on whether or not these finds are true or not.

Ok, so next time you use AiG, I'll remember that. That's not the point, though. The point is that if in the Creationist camp, other Creationists say that Ron Wyatt's finds aren't true, EVEN after looking at the evidence (pictures), then Ron's credibility sinks even further.

Let's look at what AiG says, since you once again don't seem inclined to view any counter evidence.

Pharaoh’s chariots?

Some unsolicited evidence also came our way concerning the alleged chariot wheels of the Exodus (which have never been made available to any archaeologists, Bible-believing or otherwise). There is a Jonathan Gray video purporting to show these on the bottom of the Red Sea. In one part, Gray claims that a ‘British Admiralty chart’ he is holding shows a ‘sand bridge’ with great depths either side.

The hydrographic office of the UK Ministry of Defense is, by international agreement, the authority for charting the Red Sea. A Mrs M. H. sent them the video; they wrote back to her that:

*

Gray’s chart could be positively identified on blowups as United States chart no. 62020.
*

‘Contrary to Mr Gray’s statement, the “sand bridge†is not now, and never has been, a recognizable feature on British Admiralty Charts. Nor is it recognizable on the U.S. chart held by Mr Gray.’
*

Gray’s comments about the ‘great depths’ also mislead.
*

The naturally lit video footage of the sea floor could not possibly have been filmed anywhere near the spot claimed by Gray, as insufficient light would penetrate at that depth.

Subsequently, Gray published a second letter from the same office, claiming it vindicated his claims of a ‘sand bridge.’ However, when we checked with them, they wrote that their comments had been ‘seriously edited,’ with ‘selected parts’ shown under their letterhead. The full letter, which they sent us, ‘does not confirm the existence of a “sand bridge.â€Â’

In short, whenever we have had the opportunity to objectively assess any of these claims, the same pattern emerges as from our ‘Ark’ investigation.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v21/i2/ark.asp

[quote:f5f1a]Look at the pictures. If you can come up with a better reasoning that is supported then do it. Until then, these Items are there because there is no better explanation than the Biblical accounts.

Ok, so if I provide you with a picture of the Loch Ness monster, or Bigfoot, then you should accept them no matter what.[/quote:f5f1a]

Asimov, you're not getting something. I'm not a creationist, I'm a Christian. I'm not going to be as skeptic as those who publish with answers in Genesis. There are many things that they are right on, but I'm not interested in a group of created things being my final answer. Additionally, no where in your qoute does it deny the claims, it merely shows why skepticism is considered valid to them.

As to Nessy or Big Foot, for these you do not have one persons veiw to back up a claimed sighting. For the Ark or the wheels, we have sole descriptions as to details which these items fit.

 

[Asimov]

Asimov, you're not getting something. I'm not a creationist, I'm a Christian. I'm not going to be as skeptic as those who publish with answers in Genesis. There are many things that they are right on, but I'm not interested in a group of created things being my final answer. Additionally, no where in your qoute does it deny the claims, it merely shows why skepticism is considered valid to them.

Buddy, that's because they can't view the evidence. Pictures are all well and good, but they don't prove anything. That's why there are field researchers. Ron Wyatt is a known liar, why are you defending him? Of course skepticism is valid, it's always valid when you take a liar, a few photos, a mythological story, and interpretations of evidence that hasn't been peer reviewed and tested.

As to Nessy or Big Foot, for these you do not have one persons veiw to back up a claimed sighting. For the Ark or the wheels, we have sole descriptions as to details which these items fit.

Are you saying that multiple people haven't seen bigfoot or nessy at once?

 

[Blazin Bones]

Asimov, who keeps bringing up Wyatt, you or me. I'm standing by the evidence because it's there. As for nessy and Bigfoot, I'm one of these freaks who would love more evidence of their existence and I accept the pictures as evidence, you're the skeptic.

 

[serapha]

There's one little thought that doesn't seem to ever sink in...


The Iliad is mythology....

haha...I think you need to lay off the pills that increase the iron in your bloodstream, it seems to be affecting what you say.

the Bible has fulfilled prophecy. There's a big difference in the literature that is being discussed.
Helllooooo.... when a book prophecies and that prophecy is fulfilled, it can no longer be considered on the same level as mythology.

The Iliad contains prophecy. Odysseus' father consulted the Oracle, and that came true. Odysseus consulted the Oracle, that came true as well. There are many instances of characters consulting the Oracle who prophecises events that are fulfilled.

Even king Philip visited the Oracle about his son Alexander the Great, who told him that Alexander would become a great ruler.

Achilles was warned that if he went to Troy, he would gain fame, but he would die.

Amazing, I wonder why you don't accept the Iliad and other Greek Myths as fact too.

Hi there!


could we go for 100% accuracy here on prophecy.



~serapha~

 

[Asimov]

could we go for 100% accuracy here on prophecy.

As far as I know, every prophecy the Oracle made came true.