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[_ Old Earth _] Archaeopteryx?

  • Thread starter Thread starter reznwerks
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reznwerks

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"Part XIII of the CSC web page: Frequently Asked Questions

What Was Archaeopteryx?

CSC claims that archaeopteryx fossils are forgeries with feathers imprinted on the fossil imprint of a reptile, based on the conclusions of "several prominent scientists." No indication of who these "scientists" were, or even if they had actually examined the fossil. CRC also brings out the standard Chatterjee ":protoavis" argument that bird fossils are found much lower in the geologic column than archaeopteryx. No mention was made of the fact that "protoavis" showed no evidence of feathers. It is interesting to note that Duane Gish of the ICR claims that archy was really a bird, while CSC's Walt Brown insists that it was NOT a bird. A detailed discussion of the archaeopteryx fossils can be found in:

Lenny Flank home page
Talk origins information
Is Archie a forgery? HREF="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/archaeopteryx/forgery.html">forgery?


http://www.fsteiger.com/debunk.html
 
Who cares? What does it prove? It’s a bird! It’s a plane! No, it’s stupid, man. If God created some bird like creatures with teeth and feathers, we could call them bat birds. If they have wings, teeth and no feathers, they can be bird bats. They may be evolved from one or the other. Maybe they co existed. Does any of it prove they were not created? If they changed, does that prove it took millions of years?
 
It's just a transitional. One of the man forms of evidence for evolution. Archy is mostly dinosaur, with a good bit of bird as well.

Totally incomprehensible to creationism. But exactly what Darwin predicted.
 
Barbarian wrote:
It's just a transitional. One of the man forms of evidence for evolution. Archy is mostly dinosaur, with a good bit of bird as well.

Totally incomprehensible to creationism. But exactly what Darwin predicted.

First, it is not totally incomprehensible to creationism for God to have created an animal with both lizard and bird characteristics. A platypus has the characteristics of several creatures. Are you going to call it a transitional as well? If not, why not? If this is one of your main forms of evidence for evolution, you sure don’t have much, do you. :roll:
 
(Barbarian points out that Archaeopteryx is incomprehensible to creationism)

First, it is not totally incomprehensible to creationism for God to have created an animal with both lizard and bird characteristics.

It doesn't have both "lizard and bird characteristics." If that was the case, it would be a problem. Since evolutionary theory predicted that birds evolved from dinosaurs, any lizard apomorphies would be a serious problem for evolutionary theory. But Archie doesn't have any. It has only dinosaur and bird characteristics.

It's mostly dinosauran, but a good bit birdlike as well. As evolutionary theory predicted. Why are the only transitionals we find those predicted by evolutionary theory? Creationsts are at a loss to explain this. But it's perfectly understandable in terms of science.

A platypus has the characteristics of several creatures.

Therapsids and mammals. But then, evolutionary theory predicts that mammals evolved from therapsids. Another case where it makes perfect sense from evolutionary theory, but is completely incomprehensible to creationism.

Are you going to call it a transitional as well?

You betcha. Let's see... slightly warm-blooded, primitive form of milk glands, fur, mammalian jaw joint, etc. Mammal.

Complex shoulder girdle, cloaca, lays reptillian eggs, therapsid.

Hard to call it anything but a transitional between therapsids and mammals.

If not, why not?

It's a splendid example.

If this is one of your main forms of evidence for evolution, you sure don’t have much, do you.

It's another case where the transitional nature of the beast is what was predicted by evolutionary theory, but it's a complete mystery to creationism.

Again, why do we only see transitionals where they are predicted. Why no bird/mammal transitions, or insect/mollusk transitions?

I think you're starting to realize why.
 
If I were to find a comb and a brush on the ground would I make the conclusion that the brush evolved from the comb, or would I come to the conclusion that the comb and brush was manufactured by an engineer using a similar design?

If I was against anyone knowing that an unseen engineer existed, I would float the idea that the brush evolved from a comb, and I would not leave my position because it would be too demeaning to admit error.

There are those, however, that are more alert in the spiritual under-pinnings of life that know that God almighty created animals with various designs that are similar and different than others.

Simple.
 
The Barbarian said:
(Barbarian points out that Archaeopteryx is incomprehensible to creationism)

First, it is not totally incomprehensible to creationism for God to have created an animal with both lizard and bird characteristics.

It doesn't have both "lizard and bird characteristics." If that was the case, it would be a problem. Since evolutionary theory predicted that birds evolved from dinosaurs, any lizard apomorphies would be a serious problem for evolutionary theory. But Archie doesn't have any. It has only dinosaur and bird characteristics.

It's mostly dinosauran, but a good bit birdlike as well. As evolutionary theory predicted. Why are the only transitionals we find those predicted by evolutionary theory? Creationsts are at a loss to explain this. But it's perfectly understandable in terms of science.

[quote:6488c]A platypus has the characteristics of several creatures.

Therapsids and mammals. But then, evolutionary theory predicts that mammals evolved from therapsids. Another case where it makes perfect sense from evolutionary theory, but is completely incomprehensible to creationism.

Are you going to call it a transitional as well?

You betcha. Let's see... slightly warm-blooded, primitive form of milk glands, fur, mammalian jaw joint, etc. Mammal.

Complex shoulder girdle, cloaca, lays reptillian eggs, therapsid.

Hard to call it anything but a transitional between therapsids and mammals.

If not, why not?

It's a splendid example.

If this is one of your main forms of evidence for evolution, you sure don’t have much, do you.

It's another case where the transitional nature of the beast is what was predicted by evolutionary theory, but it's a complete mystery to creationism.

Again, why do we only see transitionals where they are predicted. Why no bird/mammal transitions, or insect/mollusk transitions?

I think you're starting to realize why.[/quote:6488c]

The only mystery is why you think it should make any difference to creationism.
First of all, it doesn’t matter if there are thousands of “transitionals†since there is no conflict with the concept that God created animals with the ability to adapt and do it rather quickly to survive in a changing environment. Genesis says God created animals that reproduced after their ‘kinds.’ It doesn’t say that he would never change them if he needed or wanted to. The serpent in the garden was an upright creature who immediately was changed to an animal who had to crawl on his belly. I suppose you could say he was a transitional between an upright variety of serpent and crawling serpents. Just because you want to make straw man arguments to beat up, doesn’t mean you’re proving anything. There’s no reason to believe that this conflicts with Genesis. The millions and millions of years you need for the ToE do. Truth does not. If it is truth, it won’t conflict with Genesis. At least you’re consistent in your view with the platypus. I hope you can now see it doesn’t change anything about creationism according to Genesis.

Jesus said that those who seek, find. If you are seeking truth, you will eventually find it. If you seek God, you will find him. If you are seeking an excuse not to believe truth, you will find it instead.
 
There is however conflict with what YE Creationists posit and the way things are. Why you believe evolution not to be best at explaining phenomena when it so clearly is is the mystery.
 
(Barbarian shows massive evidence in just one transitional for evolution)

The only mystery is why you think it should make any difference to creationism.

Remember, creationism is a religion. Religion and science don't have much to do with each other.

First of all, it doesn’t matter if there are thousands of “transitionals†since there is no conflict with the concept that God created animals with the ability to adapt and do it rather quickly to survive in a changing environment.

What totally befuddles creationists, is why we should see transitionals between groups that are related to each other, but not for unrelated groups. Science predicted reptile/mammal and dinosaur/bird transitions.

And we find them. But no mammal/bird transitions. This is a complete and fatal mystery to creationism.

The serpent in the garden was an upright creature who immediately was changed to an animal who had to crawl on his belly.

"Upright creature"? Where does it say that?

Jesus said that those who seek, find. If you are seeking truth, you will eventually find it.

I know the truth. It is Him.

If you are seeking an excuse not to believe truth, you will find it instead.

That is the dilemma YE creationists face.
 
Barbarian wrote:
(Barbarian shows massive evidence in just one transitional for evolution)

Here we find Barbarian putting the massive burden of proving this major theory to explain all the diversity of the living universe practically on just one creature.



Barbarian wrote:
Remember, creationism is a religion. Religion and science don't have much to do with each other.

I will, if you admit that the ‘T’ in the ToE doesn’t stand for ‘truth’ and the ToE and truth have little in common.



Barbarian wrote:
What totally befuddles creationists, is why we should see transitionals between groups that are related to each other, but not for unrelated groups. Science predicted reptile/mammal and dinosaur/bird transitions.

And we find them. But no mammal/bird transitions. This is a complete and fatal mystery to creationism.

This is a complete and total straw man. Just because some creationists are confused by all the ToE fabrications, doesn’t mean that the account of creation isn’t right, no matter who does or doesn’t believe or understand it.


Barbarian wrote:
"Upright creature"? Where does it say that?
You’re right. The serpent may have crawled on his back or side. Silly me, taking liberties with the text. You caught me again. :roll:
 
Very vriefly

Even evolutionistAlan Fedducia, a world authority on birds, says, "Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it's not. It's a bird, a perching bird"
 
Very vriefly

Even evolutionist Alan Fedducia, a world authority on birds, says, "Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it's not. It's a bird, a perching bird"
 
Barbarian wrote: Quote:
(Barbarian shows massive evidence in just one transitional for evolution)

Here we find Barbarian putting the massive burden of proving this major theory to explain all the diversity of the living universe practically on just one creature.

Nope. There are many, many more like that. You just made up that one. Never said anything like that. Others are watching. Think of your reputation, if not your soul.

Barbarian wrote: Quote:
Remember, creationism is a religion. Religion and science don't have much to do with each other.

Barbarian observes:
What totally befuddles creationists, is why we should see transitionals between groups that are related to each other, but not for unrelated groups. Science predicted reptile/mammal and dinosaur/bird transitions.

And we find them. But no mammal/bird transitions. This is a complete and fatal mystery to creationism.

This is a complete and total straw man.

That's a testable accusation. Find me a plausible excuse.

Barbarian on the unscriptural assumption about the Serpent:
"Upright creature"? Where does it say that?

You’re right. The serpent may have crawled on his back or side. Silly me, taking liberties with the text. You caught me again.

It may seem like nothing to you, but to Christians, inserting one's own ideas in Scripture is a bad idea.
 
Even evolutionistAlan Fedducia, a world authority on birds, says, "Paleontologists have tried to turn Archaeopteryx into an earth-bound, feathered dinosaur. But it's not. It's a bird, a perching bird"

Al Feduccia thinks that dinosaurs and birds evolved from a common ancestor. Part of the difficulty is that Feduccia is not a paleontologist, and is not an expert on fossil birds. Those who are, don't agree with him.

However, are you sure you want to recommend someone who says birds evolved from the ancestors of dinosaurs? :-D
 
Al Feduccia sing dis song;
Doo Dah, Doo Dah.
"Compsognathus' tail is long."
Oh, Doo Dah Day.

Feduccia says "It just won't fly."
Doo Dah, Doo Dah.
"Archie's different; I don't know why."
Oh, Doo Dah Day.

"Dino forelegs short;
Archie forelegs long.
What's this 'allometry' stuff?
I know it must be wrong."

Original composition by The Barbarian
 
THE CASE OF
ARCHAEOPTERYX - 1


This is a fascinating story, which probably is another of the many evolutionary hoaxes. Evolutionary theory is a myth. God created everything; the evidence clearly points to it. This is science vs. evolutionâ€â€a Creation-Evolution Encyclopedia, brought to you by Creation Science Facts.

CONTENTS: The Case of Archaeopteryx - 1

Introduction - Evolutionists claim it is halfway between a reptile and a bird
Archaeopteryx May Be a Bird - It may be just another species of bird

This material is excerpted from the book, HISTORY OF EVOLUTIONARY THEORY. An asterisk ( * ) by a name indicates that person is not known to be a creationist. Of over 4,000 quotations in the books this Encyclopedia is based on, only 164 statements are by creationists.

INTRODUCTION
Evolutionists claim it is halfway between a reptile and a bird.

"Archaeopteryx": This is a big name for a little bird, and is pronounced "Archee-opter-iks." It means "early wing." If you have a hard time with it, just call the little fellow "Archee." He won't mind.

There are high-quality limestone deposits in Solnhofen, Germany (near Eichstatt), which have been mined for over a century. From time to time, fossils have been found in them, and the sale of these has provided extra income for the owners of the Dorr quarry.

In 1861, a feather was found, and it sold for a surprisingly good price. This was due to the fact that it had purportedly come from late Jurassic strata. Soon after, in the same quarry, a fossil bird was found with the head and neck missing. The name, Archaeopteryx, had been given to the bird. The Jurassic specimen was sold for a high price to the British Museum. Finding unusual specimens was becoming an excellent way to bring in good profit. In 1877, a second specimen was said to have been discovered close to the first,â€â€but this one had a neck and head. In that head were 13 teeth in each jaw; the head itself had the elongated round shape of a lizard head. This latest find made an absolute sensation, and was sure to sell for a great amount of money. And it surely didâ€â€going this time to the Humbold Museum, in Berlin, as the highest bidder.

Including that feather, there are six specimens of Archaeopteryx in the world. All six came from that same German limestone area. In addition to the feather and the first two, three others are quite faint and difficult to use. It is almost impossible to tell what they are. Aside from the feather, the others are located at London, Berlin, Maxburg, Teyler, and Eichstattâ€â€all in Germany. They all came from the same general area.

Only the first fossilized skeleton (the "London specimen"), and the second one (the "Berlin specimen"), are well-enough defined to be usable. Evolutionists declare them to be prime examples of a transitional species. If so, we would have here the only definite cross-species transitions ever found anywhere in the world.

"Evolutionists can produce only a single creatureâ€â€one single fossil creatureâ€â€for which it is possible to produce even a semblance of an argument. That creature is, of course, Archaeopteryx, of which about five fossil specimens have been found in Upper Jurassic rocks (assumed by evolutionary geologists to be about 150 million years in age). All have been found in the Solnhofen Pattenkalk of Franconia (West Germany)."â€â€Duane Gish, Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record (1985), p. 110.

The evolutionists consider Archaeopteryx to be a transition between reptile and bird. But there are two other possibilities. Some favor the first; others (including the present writer) prefer the second. It could be a real bird or a fake. Here are both; take your pick:

ARCHAEOPTERYX MAY BE A BIRD
If the Archaeopteryx specimens are really genuine, here are reasons why Archaeopteryx could be considered a bird and not a reptile:

1 - Scientists say it is a bird. It is significant that a special scientific meeting was held in 1982, a year before the furor over the Hoyle-Watkins declarations that Archaeopteryx was a hoax (which we will discuss shortly). The international Archaeopteryx Conference was held in Eichstatt, Germany, not far from the limestone deposits where all the specimens were originally found. At this meeting, it was decided that Archaeopteryx is a "bird" and not a reptile or half-bird / half-reptile. It was also decided that Archaeopteryx was not necessarily the ancestor of modern bird.

Therefore, the scientific community now officially declares Archaeopteryx to be only a bird, not a transitional species.

2 - How could scales turn into feathers? Although zealous evolutionists have always claimed that this creature is a descendant of the reptiles and an ancestor of the birds, yet they do not explain how the scales on a reptile can change into feathers.

3 - It has bones like a bird. Archaeopteryx is said to have thin, hollow wing and leg bonesâ€â€such as a bird has.

4 - It was not earlier than the birds. Archaeopteryx does not predate the bird, because fossils of other birds have been found in rocks of the same period (the Jurassic) in which Archaeopteryx was found.

5 - It has modern bird feathers. The feathers on Archaeopteryx appear identical to modern feathers.

"But in Archaeopteryx, it is to be noted, the feathers differ in no way from the most perfectly developed feathers known to us."â€â€*A. Feduccia and *H.B. Tordoff, in Science, 203 (1979), p. 1020.

6 - No intermediate feathers have ever been found. Transition from scales to feathers would require many intermediate steps, but none have ever been found.

7 - It had well-developed wings. The wings of Archaeopteryx were well-developed, and the bird probably could fly well.

8 - It had wings designed for flight. The feathers of Archaeopteryx are asymmetrical; that is, the shaft does not have the same amount of feathers on both sides. This is the way feathers on flying birds are designed. In contrast, feathers on ostriches, rheas, and other flightless birds, or poor flyers (such as chickens), have fairly symmetrical feathers.

"The significance of asymmetrical features is that they indicate the capability of flying; nonflying birds such as the ostrich and the emu have symmetrical [feathered] wings."â€â€*E. Olsen and *A. Feduccia, "Flight Capability and the Pectoral Girdle of Archaeopteryx," Nature (1979), p. 248.

9 - No prior transitions. There ought to be transitional species from reptile to Archaeopteryx, but this is not the case. It cannot be a connecting link between reptile and bird, for there are no transitions to bridge the immense gap leading from the reptile to it. It has fully developed wing bones and flight feathers.

10 - Bird-like in most respects. Archaeopteryx gives evidence of being a regular bird in every way except that it differs in certain features: (1) the lack of a sternum, (2) three digits on its wings, and (3) a reptile-like head. But there are explanations for all three points.

[a] - Lack of a sternum. Archaeopteryx had no sternum; but, although the wings of some birds today attach to the sternum, others attach to the furcula (wishbone). Archaeopteryx had a large furcula, so this is no problem.

"It is obvious that Archaeopteryx was very much a bird, equipped with a bird-like skull, perching feet, wings, feathers, and a furcula wishbone. No other animal, except birds, possesses feathers and a furcula."â€â€Duane Gish, Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record (1985), p. 112.

- Digits on its wings. Archaeopteryx had three digits on its "wings." Other dinosaurs have this also, but so do a few modern birds. This includes the hoatzin (Opisthocomus hoatdzin), a South American bird which has two wing claws in its juvenile stage. In addition, it is a poor flyer, with an amazingly small sternumâ€â€such as Archaeopteryx had. The touraco (Touraco corythaix), an African bird has claws and the adult is also a poor flyer. The ostrich has three claws on each wing. Their claws appear even more reptilian than those of archaeopteryx.

[c] - The shape of its skull. It has been said that the skull of Archaeopteryx appears more like a reptile than a bird, but investigation by Benton says it is shaped more like a bird.

"It has been claimed that the skull of Archaeopteryx was reptile-like rather than bird-like. Recently, however, the cranium of the `London' specimen had been removed from its limestone slab by Whetstone. Studies have shown that the skull is much broader and more bird-like than previously thought. This has led Benton to state that `details of the braincase and associated bones at the back of the skull seem to suggest that Archaeopteryx is not the ancestral bird.' "â€â€Duane Gish, Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record (1985), pp. 112-113.

"Most authorities have admitted that Archaeopteryx was a bird because of the clear imprint of feathers in the fossil remains. The zoological definition of a bird is: `A vertebrate with feathers.' Recently, Dr. James Jensen, paleontologist at Brigham Young University, discovered in western Colorado the fossil remains of a bird thought to be as old as Archaeopteryx but much more modern in form. This would seem to give the death knell to any possible use of Archaeopteryx by evolutionists as a transitional form."â€â€Marvin Lubenow, "Report on the Racine Debate," in Decade of Creation (1981), p. 65.

11 - A leading ornithologist agrees. *F.E. Beddard, in his important scientific book on birds, maintained that Archaeopteryx was a bird; and, as such, it presented the same problem as all other birds: How could it have evolved from reptiles since there is such a big gap (the wing and feather gap) between the two.

"So emphatical were all these creature-birds, that the actual origin of Aves is barely hinted at in the structure of these remarkable remains."â€â€*F.E. Beddard,

The Structure and Classification of Birds (1898), p. 160.

12 - Other birds had teeth. It may seem unusual for Archaeopteryx to have had teeth, but there are several other extinct birds which also had them.

"However, the other extinct birds had teeth, and every other category of vertebrates contains some organisms with teeth, and some without (amphibians, reptiles, extinct birds, mammals, etc.)."â€â€*P. Moody, Introduction to Evolution (1970), pp. 196-197.

13 - It could be a unique bird. Archaeopteryx could well be a unique creature, just as the duck-billed platypus is unique. The Archaeopteryx has wings like a bird and a head similar to a lizard, but with teeth. There are a number of unique plants and animals in the world which, in several ways, are totally unlike anything else.

The platypus is an animal with a bill like a duck; has fur but lays eggs; in spite of its egg-laying, it is a mammal and nurses its young with milk; and chews its food with plates instead of with teeth. The male has a hollow claw on its hind foot that it uses to scratch and poison its enemies. It has claws like a mole. But, like a duck, it has webs between its toes; it uses sonar under water.

There is no doubt but that the platypus is far stranger than the Archaeopteryx; yet, like the Archaeopteryx, there is no transitional half-platypus creatures liking it to any other species.

14 - Totally unique. There are no transitional species leading to or from it. Thus, if genuine, it would provide no evidence of evolution.

Regarding the Archaeopteryx, Romer, the well-known paleontologist said this:

"This Jurassic bird [Archaeopteryx] stands in splendid isolation; we know no more of its presumed thecodont ancestry nor of its relation to later `proper' birds than before."â€â€*A.S. Romer, Notes and Comments on Vertebrate Paleontology (1968), p. 144.

From his own study, *Swinton, an expert on birds and a confirmed evolutionist, has concluded:

"The origin of birds is largely a matter of deduction. There is no fossil evidence of the stages through which the remarkable change from reptile to bird was achieved."â€â€*W.E. Swinton, Biology and Comparative Physiology of Birds, Vol. 1 (1960), p. 1.

Other scientists agree. Here is an important statement by *Ostrom:

"It is obvious that we must now look for the ancestors of flying birds in a period of time much older than that in which Archaeopteryx lived."â€â€*J. Ostrom, Science News, 112 (1977), p. 198.

"Unfortunately, the greater part of the fundamental types in the animal realm are disconnected [from each other] from a paleontological point of view. In spite of the fact that it is undeniably related to the two classes of reptiles and birds (a relation which the anatomy and physiology of actual living specimens demonstrates), we are not even authorized to consider the exceptional case of the Archaeopteryx as a true link.

"By link, we mean a necessary stage of transition between classes such as reptiles and birds or between smaller groups. An animal displaying characters belonging to two different groups cannot be treated as a true link as long as the intermediate stages have not been found, and as long as the mechanisms of transition remain unknown."â€â€*L. du Nouy, Human Destiny (1947), p. 58.

15 - Modern birds have been found in the same strata. Bones of modern birds have been found in the same type of rock strataâ€â€the Jurassicâ€â€in which Archaeopteryx was found. (They have been found in eastern Colorado.) According to evolutionary theory, this cannot be; for millions of years ought to be required for Archaeopteryx to change into a regular bird. If it was alive at the same time as modern birds, how can it be their ancient ancestor? Birds have also been found in the Jurassic limestone beds of Utah.

16 - Modern birds have been found below it! Not only do we find modern birds in the same strata with Archaeopteryx,â€â€but we also find them below it!

"Perhaps the final argument against Archaeopteryx as a transitional form has come from a rock quarry in Texas. Here scientists from Texas Tech University found bird bones encased in rock layers farther down the geological column than Archaeopteryx fossils."â€â€Richard Bliss, Origins: Creation or Evolution (1988), p. 46.

Two crow-sized birds were discovered in the Triassic Dockum Formation in Texas. Because of the strata they were located in, those birds would, according to evolutionary theory, be 75 million years older than Archaeopteryx! More information on this Texas discovery can be found in *Nature, 322 (1986), p. 677.

Retrieved from http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/20hist08.htm
 
THE CASE OF
ARCHAEOPTERYX - 2


This is Part 2 of an unusual story, which probably is another of the many evolutionary hoaxes which have been perpetrated over the years. Evolutionary theory is a myth. God created everything; the evidence clearly points to it. This is science vs. evolutionâ€â€a Creation-Evolution Encyclopedia, brought to you by Creation Science Facts.

CONTENTS: The Case of Archaeopteryx - 2

Archaeopteryx Probably Is a Fake - The evidence strongly indicates it is a fake
Conclusion - Either way, there is no evidence pointing to evolution

Page numbers without book references refer to the book, HISTORY OF EVOLUTIONARY THEORY, from which these facts are summarized. An asterisk ( * ) by a name indicates that person is not known to be a creationist. Of over 4,000 quotations in the set of books this Encyclopedia is based on, only 164 statements are by creationists.

ARCHAEOPTERYX PROBABLY IS A FAKE
Now we come to a totally opposite position: Archaeopteryx is not an extinct bird, but rather a planned hoax. At the same time that mounting evidence was beginning to indicate it to be a carefully contrived fake; confirmed evolutionists moved toward the position that Archaeopteryx was only an ancient bird and not a half-reptile / half-bird. By calling it a `bird," they avoided the crisis that struck the scientific worldâ€â€and the major museumsâ€â€when Piltdown Man was exposed as a hoax in 1953.

Three initial problems. Before considering the *Hoyle / *Watkins expose, let us first look at some other facets of this overall problem.

You will observe in the following discussion that there are some observational differences between this and the preceding approach to the problem. For example, while some experts consider Archaeopteryx to have had a body like a bird, those who consider it a fake believe the fossilized body to be a reptile. Somebody took a reptile fossilâ€â€and carefully added wings to it!

"Like the later Piltdown man, Archaeopteryx seemed a perfect intermediate form . . There are, however, disturbing analogies between Piltdown man and Archaeopteryx that have come to light with careful study. Both are hodgepodges of traits found in the forms they are supposed to linkâ€â€with each trait present in essentially full developed form rather than in an intermediate state! Allowing for alterations, Piltdown's jaw was that of an orangutan; Archaeopteryx's skull was a dinosaur skull. Moreover, Piltdown man's cranium was a Homo sapien's skull; Archaeopteryx's feathers were ordinary feathers, differing in no significant way from those of a strong flying bird such as a falcon . . The lack of proper sufficient bony attachments for powerful flight muscles is enough to rule out the possibility that Archaeopteryx could even fly, feathers notwithstanding."â€â€W. Frair and P. Davis, Case for Creation (1983), pp. 58-60.

1 - A profitable business. There are those who believe that Archaeopteryx was a carefully contrived fake. It would be relatively easy to do. The nature of the hard limestone would make it easy to carefully engrave something on it. Since the first Archaeopteryx sold for such an exorbitant price to the highest bidder (The British Museum), the second, produced 16 years later, had a reptile-like headâ€â€and sold for a tremendous amount to the museum in Berlin. The owner of that quarry made a small fortune on the sale of each of those two specimens.

2 - Feathers added to a fossil? In these specimens we find powerful flight feathers on strong wings, shown as faint steaks radiating out from what appears to be a small reptile body. The head and body of Archaeopteryx is similar to that of a small coelurosaurian dinosaur, Compsognathus; the flight feathers are exactly like those of modern birds. If they were removed, the creature would appear to be only a small dinosaur. If you carefully examine a photograph of the "London specimen," you will note that the flight feathers consist only of carefully drawn lines!

It would be relatively easy for someone to take a genuine fossil of a compsognathusâ€â€and carefully scratch those lines onto the surface of the smooth, durable limestone. All that would be needed would be a second fossil of a bird as a pattern to copy the markings from,â€â€and then inscribe its wing pattern onto the reptile specimen. That is all that would be required, and the result would be a fabulous amount of income. And both specimens did produce just that!

3 - All specimens came from the same place. Keep in mind that all six of those specimens were found in the Solnhofen Plattenkalk of Franconia, Germany, near the town of Eichstatt. Nowhere elseâ€â€anywhere in the worldâ€â€have any Archaeopteryx specimens ever been discovered!

Living in Germany, at the same time that these six specimens were found, was Ernst Haeckel (1834-1919). He would have been in the prime of life at the time both specimens were brought forth. Haeckel was the most rabid Darwinist advocate on the continent; it is well-known that he was very active at the time the finds were made, and he was continually seeking for new "proofs" of evolution so he could use them in his lecture circuit meetings. He loved verbal and visual illustrations, and it is now known that he spent time on the side enthusiastically inventing them!

It is also known that Haeckel had unusual artistic ability, and he put it to work fraudulently touching up and redrawing charts of ape skeletons and embryos so that they would appear to prove evolutionary theory. He had both the ability and the mind-set for the task. You will find more information on his fraudulent artistry in the section on Recapitulations. There is no doubt that Haeckel had the daring, the skill, the time, and the energy to forge those Archaeopteryx specimens. In those years, he always seemed to have the money to set aside time for anything he wanted to do in the way of lecturing or drawing charts. He even supported a mistress for a number of years. Perhaps some of that came from engraving bird feathers onto reptile fossils and then splitting the profits of Archaeopteryx sales with the quarry owners.

About 35 years ago, the present writer had opportunity to work for several weeks with two of the best nineteenth-century art materials: copper engraving and stone lithography. Both were used in the 19th century in printing, and both were able to reproduce the most delicate marks. This is because both copper and high-quality limestone have such a close grained, smooth surface. Bavarian and Franconian limestone quarries produced the best lithographic blocks. ("Lithos" and "grapho" mean writing.) Our present lithographic process, which uses thin metal plates, is a descendant of the limestone block method (which utilized printing from a flat surface because oily ink in the markings would not mix with the water on the smooth surface between the markings). The other primary method, that of copper engraving, used the intaglio method of fine tracery marks cut into a smooth surface. There is no doubt but that any good engraver could easily superimpose the marks of outward radiating flight feathers over an actual small dinosaur fossil.

"The feathers of Archaeopteryx suggest that there was a skillful flyer or glider at the same time that its skeleton suggests otherwise. Archaeopteryx is a mosaic of characteristics almost impossible to interpret, let alone to base evolutionary theories on!"â€â€W. Frair and P. Davis, Case for Creation (1963), p. 61.

The *Hoyle / *Watkins expose. It was not until the 1980s that the most formidable opposition to these Solnhofen limestone specimens developed. Here is the story of what took place:

1 - Background of the investigations. In 1983, *M. Trop wrote an article questioning the authenticity of the specimen ("Is Archaeopteryx a Fake?" in Creation Research Society Quarterly, Vol. 20, pp. 121-122). Two years later a series of four articles appeared in the British Journal of Photography (March-June 1985 issues) declaring Archaeopteryx to be a carefully contrived hoax. These articles were authored by some of the leading scientists in England: *Fred Hoyle, *R.S. Watkins, *N.C. Wickramasinghe, *J. Watkins, *R. Rabilizirov, and *L.M. Spetner. And this brought the controversy to the attention of the scientific world.

Keep in mind as we discuss these specimens that, of all six, only the London and Berlin specimens are usable; the rest are hardly recognizable as anything. So all the evidence, pro and con, must come from one or the other of those two specimens. This crisis over the specimens began in 1983 when six leading British scientists, led by *Fred Hoyle and *R.S. Watkins, declared in print that Archaeopteryx was a definite hoax, just as much as Piltdown man had been a hoax. These researchers went to the London Museum and carefully studied and photographed the specimen. That specimen is contained in a slab and a counter slabâ€â€thus giving a front and back view of it. Here is what these well-known scientists discovered:

2 - Slab mismatch. The two slabs do not appear to match. If the specimen was genuine, the front and back slabs should be mirror images of one another. A comparison of the present specimen with an 1863 drawing indicates an alteration was later made to the left wing of the specimen. The 1863 left wing was totally mismatched on the two slabs; the later alteration brought the match closer together.

3 - Artificial feathers. *Hoyle, *Watkins, and others decided that the body skeleton and arms were genuine, but that the feather markings (those shallow lines radiating outward from the forelimbs) were carefully imprinted on the fossil by an unknown hand.

4 - Cement blobs. They also found additional evidence of the forgery: cement blobs used during the etching process.

"They suggested the following procedure for creating the feather impressions: 1) The forgers removed rock from around the tail and `wing' (forelimb) regions. 2) They then applied a thin layer of cement, probably made from limestone of the Solnhofen quarries, to the excavated areas. 3) They impressed feathers on the cement and held them in place by adhesive material (referred to as `chewing gum' blobs). Attempts to remove the blobs from the rock were obviousâ€â€the slabs were scraped, brushed, and chipped. However, an oversight remained in the cleaning process: one `chewing gum' blob and fragments of others were left behind."â€â€*Venus E. Clausen, "Recent Debate over Archaeopteryx."

5 - Museum withdraws specimen. After their initial examination of the London specimen, they requested permission for a neutral testing center to further examine the blob area, utilizing an electron microscope, carbon-14 dating, and spectrophotometry. Three months later, museum officials sent word that the specimen was being withdrawn from further examination.

6 - History of forgeries. *Hoyle, *Watkins, and the others then checked into historical sources and declared that they had discovered that, dating back to the early 18th century, the Solnhofen limestone area was notorious for its fossil forgeries. Genuine fossils, taken from the limestone quarries, had been altered and then sold to museums. These fossils brought good money because they appeared to be strange new species.

7 - Discoveries follow prediction. *Thomas H. Huxley, Darwin's British champion, whom he called his "bulldog," had predicted that fossils of strange new species would be found. *Hoyle and others believed that, thus encouraged, the forgers went to work to produce them.

8 - The Meyer connection. Of the six Archaeopteryx fossils, only three specimens show the obvious feather impressions. These three specimens were sent to *Hermann von Meyer, in Germany, who, within a 20-year period, analyzed and described them. *Hoyle and company suggest that they came in as reptiles and left with wings! It just so happens that Meyer worked closely with the Haberlein family, and they acquired his two best feathered reptile fossilsâ€â€and then sold them to the museums. It was the *Haberlein family that made the profitâ€â€not the quarry owners. It would be relatively easy for them to split some of it with Meyer.

You can find all of the above material in four issues of the *British Journal of Photography (March-June 1985). Also see *W.J. Broad, "Authenticity of Bird Fossil Is Challenged," in New York Times, MY 7, 1985, pp. c1, c14; *T. Nield, "Feathers Fly over Fossil `Fraud' " in New Scientist 1467:49-50; *G. Vines, "Strange Case of Archaeopteryx `Fraud,' " in New Scientist 1447:3.

9 - Aftermath. As might be expected, a torrent of wrath arose from the evolutionary community as a result of these four articles. Defenders of evolutionary theory went into an absolute rage, but the six scientists held their position.

This brought still further uproar. It had been the same British Museum which had been duped into the Piltdown Man hoax ("found' from 1908 to 1912, only a few miles from Darwin's old home, publicly announced that same year and shown to be a hoax in 1953).

For a time, the British Museum refused to relent, but the pressure was too great; so the museum arranged for a special committee, composed of a select variety of scientists, to review the matter. They examined the slabs and, in 1986, reported that, in their opinion, Archaeopteryx had no blobs. With this, the British Museum announced that the case was closed and the slabs will be unavailable for further examination.

CONCLUSION
Either way, there is no evidence of evolution.

Is Archaeopteryx a flying reptile, just another bird, or a fraudâ€â€a reptile with wings added? Take your pick; whatever way, it is definitely not a transitional species, and has no transitions leading to or from it.

"No doubt it can be argued that Archaeopteryx hints of a reptilian ancestry, but surely hints do not provide a sufficient basis upon which to secure the concept of the continuity of nature. Moreover, there is no question that this archaic bird is not led up to by a series of transitional forms from an ordinary terrestrial reptile through a number of gliding types with increasing developed feathers until the avian condition is reached."â€â€*M. Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), p. 176.

"Nothing is known with certainty as to how birds arose from reptiles or from what reptilian stock."â€â€*E. Russell, The Diversity of Animals (1962), p. 118.

"Although Archaeopteryx was generally considered the earliest bird on record, a recent find suggests that the creature, which lived some 130 million years ago, may not have been the only bird alive then. A new fossil found by James Jenson, of Brigham Young University, dates back to the same periodâ€â€the Late Jurassicâ€â€and appears to be the femur (thighbone) of a bird. If this proved to be the case, then a re-examination of the postulated role of Archaeopteryx as the evolutionary link between reptiles and birds may be in order."â€â€*J. Marx, "The Oldest Fossil Bird: A Rival for Archaeopteryx?" in Science, 199 (1978), p. 284.

"The age of origin of some modern group of birds is very old, in the Early Cretaceous if not before. This places them very nearly as old as Archaeopteryx, and raises the possibility that Archaeopteryx is not the temporal benchmark of a vain evolution we so often assume."â€â€*J. Cracraft," Phylogenic Relationships and Monophyly of Loons, Grebes, and Hesperomithiform Birds," Systematic Zoology, 31 (1982), p. 53.

Retrieved from http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/20hist09.htm
 
Ahhh... more misconceptions about Archie. Let's get started:

1 - Scientists say it is a bird. It is significant that a special scientific meeting was held in 1982, a year before the furor over the Hoyle-Watkins declarations that Archaeopteryx was a hoax (which we will discuss shortly). The international Archaeopteryx Conference was held in Eichstatt, Germany, not far from the limestone deposits where all the specimens were originally found. At this meeting, it was decided that Archaeopteryx is a "bird" and not a reptile or half-bird / half-reptile. It was also decided that Archaeopteryx was not necessarily the ancestor of modern bird.

Maybe it's a bird. Depends on what you want to call a bird. Before they found one with feathers, scientists decided it was a dinosaur. Or in one case, a pterosaur. Imagine that.

Why did they do that? Because Archie has more dinosaur-like characteristics than birdlike ones.

Would you like to see a comparison?

Therefore, the scientific community now officially declares Archaeopteryx to be only a bird, not a transitional species.

Nope. Science doesn't work that way. The only "official" determinations are the consensus of scientists in that particular field. And they never announce it, or take a vote. They just go with the evidence. You've been suckered again.

2 - How could scales turn into feathers?

All you have to do is knock out one repressor gene...

http://www.dinosauria.com/jdp/archie/scutes.htm

Not surprisingly, it works only on scutes, scales found only in birds, dinosaurs, and their relatives.

3 - It has bones like a bird.

It has more bones like a dinosaur. These include the vetebrate, the toes, the tail, the ribs, the pelvis, the skull, (with no beak, but teeth) the jaw, the legs, the breastbone, the furcula.... and so on. Would you like a comparison of skeletons?

4 - It was not earlier than the birds. Archaeopteryx does not predate the bird, because fossils of other birds have been found in rocks of the same period (the Jurassic) in which Archaeopteryx was found.

In other words, if you're alive, your uncle must be dead. How so?

5 - It has modern bird feathers. The feathers on Archaeopteryx appear identical to modern feathers.

But Proarchaeopteryx, which is very similar, has symmetrical feathers and are not identical to modern flight feathers.

No intermediate feathers have ever been found.

Nope. They lied to you about that, too.


9 - No prior transitions. There ought to be transitional species from reptile to Archaeopteryx, but this is not the case.

Actually, it's "from dinosaur to Archaeopteryx." And yes, there are many. Would you like to learn about some of them?

It cannot be a connecting link between reptile and bird, for there are no transitions to bridge the immense gap leading from the reptile to it. It has fully developed wing bones and flight feathers.

Actually, it doesn't. Take a look here:

Archaeopteryx_vs_Ornitholestes_vs_bird.gif


Note that the skull, jaws, teeth, lack of beak, small brain cavity, and general posture is dino like. So are the hands, breastbone, tail, hips, and legs. So are the ribs and vertebrae, which are tubular and unfused, unlike those ob birds. What in Archie is birdlike? Some hollow bones, feathers, and some features in hands and skull that are intermediate between dinosaurs and birds.

10 - Bird-like in most respects. Archaeopteryx gives evidence of being a regular bird in every way except that it differs in certain features:

See above. They lied to you about that, too. See for yourself.

"It is obvious that Archaeopteryx was very much a bird, equipped with a bird-like skull, perching feet, wings, feathers, and a furcula wishbone. No other animal, except birds, possesses feathers and a furcula."â€â€Duane Gish, Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record (1985), p. 112.

furcula_dino11541d_exb.jpg

Here's one from an allosaur. Not surprisingly, they are found in the group of dinosaurs from which Archaeopteryx came. Didn't Gish know this? Of course he knew it. But he was pretty sure you didn't. Does it make you angry that he lied to you?

- Digits on its wings. Archaeopteryx had three digits on its "wings." Other dinosaurs have this also, but so do a few modern birds. This includes the hoatzin (Opisthocomus hoatdzin), a South American bird which has two wing claws in its juvenile stage. In addition, it is a poor flyer, with an amazingly small sternumâ€â€such as Archaeopteryx had. The touraco (Touraco corythaix), an African bird has claws and the adult is also a poor flyer. The ostrich has three claws on each wing. Their claws appear even more reptilian than those of archaeopteryx.

Three digits are characteristic of birds and dinosaurs. It is intermediate between more primitive reptiles and modern birds, in which the digits are all fused.

The shape of its skull. It has been said that the skull of Archaeopteryx appears more like a reptile than a bird, but investigation by Benton says it is shaped more like a bird.

See for yourself. The skull s shaped like a dinosaur. The jaws are dinosauran. It has teeth, and no beak. That's why it was first classified as a dinosaur, before one was found with feather impressions.

This has led Benton to state that `details of the braincase and associated bones at the back of the skull seem to suggest that Archaeopteryx is not the ancestral bird.' "â€â€Duane Gish, Evolution: The Challenge of the Fossil Record (1985), pp. 112-113.

For a long time, ornithologists have regarded Archaeopteryx as an early form which probably did not leave any ancestors. It is close to the line that did give rise to modern birds, but it is probably not the one that actually did.

(Marvin Lubenow tries the old "If you are alive, your uncle has to be dead" argument again)

A leading ornithologist agrees. *F.E. Beddard, in his important scientific book on birds, maintained that Archaeopteryx was a bird; and, as such, it presented the same problem as all other birds: How could it have evolved from reptiles since there is such a big gap (the wing and feather gap) between the two.

Take another look at the skeletons. And yes, primitive feathers may go back as far as early thecodonts, which preceded dinosaurs.

paleobooklongisquama.jpg

"Sceathers" long, featherlike scales, found in Longisquama, an early thecodont. There are other examples. Would you like to see them?

Other birds had teeth. It may seem unusual for Archaeopteryx to have had teeth, but there are several other extinct birds which also had them.

Guess what type of teeth they had? Right. Dinosaur teeth.

It could be a unique bird. Archaeopteryx could well be a unique creature, just as the duck-billed platypus is unique.

The platypus isn't unique. There are two other monotreme speces like it, and it has fossil intemediates that are somewhat platypus-like, but somewhat more like other monotremes. Would you like to learn about them?

The Archaeopteryx has wings like a bird and a head similar to a lizard,

Nope. Similar to a dinosaur.

The platypus is an animal with a bill like a duck;

Wrong. Not at all like a duckbill. It's much broader than a duck's bill, and is not made of hard hornlike material,but is soft and sensitive like the lips of other mammals. It covers a mammalian muzzle, with mammalian bones, not an avian beak.

has fur but lays eggs;

Reptillian eggs, not bird eggs. It is, after all, a transitional between therapsid reptiles and more advanced mammals.

in spite of its egg-laying, it is a mammal and nurses its young with milk;

The "milk" is rather primitive, and monotremes lack teats. It merely runs out from modified glands.

and chews its food with plates instead of with teeth.

Early platypuses had teeth, and the young still have them as embryos, and lose them as they mature.

But, like a duck,

Or a beaver.

it uses sonar under water.

Nope. They lied about that. It uses a rudimentary sense of electrical reception.

There is no doubt but that the platypus is far stranger than the Archaeopteryx; yet, like the Archaeopteryx, there is no transitional half-platypus creatures liking it to any other species.

See above. It's got transitional fossil relatives, that are somewhat, but less platypus-like. It's got the complicated therapsid shoulder girdle, and therapsid eggs. It has a single cloaca, like a therapsid.

On the other hand, it's also mammal-like in having fur, some ability to regulate its own temperature, and primitive milk glands.

Like Archaeopteryx, it's intermediate between two classes of vertebrates.

Some of the quotes these guys fed you are over 50 years old, and they do not, of course, include the many bird transitionals found since then. Would you like to learn about them?

(More "If you're alive, your uncle must be dead stuff)

Two crow-sized birds were discovered in the Triassic Dockum Formation in Texas. Because of the strata they were located in, those birds would, according to evolutionary theory, be 75 million years older than Archaeopteryx! More information on this Texas discovery can be found in *Nature, 322 (1986), p. 677.

Paleontologists now consider Proavis to not be a bird. It is actually less birdlike than most of the birdlike dinosaurs.
 
You assume that the evolution you imagine here is between what you call species. It may be. A better explanation is that when God created all the animals, he got creative. Since man is created in the image of God, it seems reasonable that we would represent some aspects of his creativity as well as our spiritual and physical attributes. So we can believe that it is a God-like quality, that when an artist creates, their style evolves with each addition to their collection. In this same way, with each new animal, bird or sea creature, God obviously used some features repeatedly and added new ones to the mix. His creative style evolved as he made new designs. This is exactly what we see when we look at the natural world around us.
While creating several hundreds or thousands of basic kinds with similar repeating features (i.e. eyes, nostrils, arms, legs, hair, skin, skeletons, internal organs, etc.) he also built in the ability to change to adapt to a changing environment.
 
You assume that the evolution you imagine here is between what you call species. It may be. A better explanation is that when God created all the animals, he got creative. Since man is created in the image of God, it seems reasonable that we would represent some aspects of his creativity as well as our spiritual and physical attributes. So we can believe that it is a God-like quality, that when an artist creates, their style evolves with each addition to their collection. In this same way, with each new animal, bird or sea creature, God obviously used some features repeatedly and added new ones to the mix.

Or, instead of just going with our personal preferences, we can look at the evidence, and see that He was a lot more creative and powerful than creationsts are willing to accept. He produced a universe in which all this wonderful life evolves as He intended.

His creative style evolved as he made new designs. This is exactly what we see when we look at the natural world around us.

Nope. Creationists, for example are befuddled by the fact that the only transitionals we see are between related species. No bird/mammal, or crab/sea urchin intermediates.

Evolutionary theory can explain why. But creationists can only scratch their heads and say "Godmustadunnit."
 
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