Are Gods Elect ever the workers of iniquity ?

[TahitiRun]

Gods Elect or Christs Sheep, though they're never the children of the devil, or the children of disobedience, or the workers of iniquity which God hates, yet by nature they have a natural affinity with them, and are considered among them. Thats why Paul says of the elect that by nature they're children of wrath as others. Eph 2:3

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Much like the Beloved Prodigal Son, who while away from His Father, He was still a Son, but lived like and among them of the world Lk 15:11-24.

Consider the text more carefully though. You underlined the phrase "among whom" in your translation.

In the Gk. the text reads ἐν οἷς

The preposition ἐν is being followed by the relative pronoun οἷς with the dative case.

The actual meaning is "in whom". Not "among" but rather "in" just like it was translated six words later "in the lusts..." Gk: ἐν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις" (the article+noun having the dative case) and like it was in v.2 where the lead in phrase is "ἐν αἷς ποτε" where ἐν is also followed by the dative.

The reason this is important is that believers were also once in the lusts of their flesh while being "in":

Eph 2:2 in which once ye did walk according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience,

We were "in", not simply "among" (as if being nearby) but rather "in" and "of the spirit" that works disobedience.

That's why all who work lawlessness (Psa 5:5) are said to be "hated" by God. The reason for this is that there is no difference between those who walk "in the flesh".

Eph 2:3 among whom also we all did walk once in the desires of our flesh, doing the wishes of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath—as also the others,

The wrath of God is against the flesh that works lawlessness, not the spirit of man (the breath of life). All human beings, both believers and non-believers alike, are "loved" (according to the spirit) and "hated" (according to the flesh).

I know that this does not sit well with Calvin's theology, but it is what it is.

 

[Christ_empowered]

So…

Jumping in here just as a work a day Christian who finds Calvinism 101 compelling…

Does this mean that the elect do commit sins…workers of some degree of iniquity if you will…

But because of Jesus Christs death and glorious resurrection, they are not punished as the unregenerate? Because honestly…

To a certain extent that makes sense. Sanctification continues through glorification k. Heaven, so even the most dedicated elect will work some degree of iniquity here on the fallen world right?

 

[brightfame52]

It's rather humorous that you'll quote a text with one breath and then deny it with the next. Your doctrines will simply not allow you to believe what the text says. Your unable to draw a distinction between flesh (earthly) and spirit (heavenly).

God doesnt hate the elect as sinners, but He hates the workers of iniquity. You just lack discernment of the truth

 

[brightfame52]

Consider the text more carefully though. You underlined the phrase "among whom" in your translation.

In the Gk. the text reads ἐν οἷς

The preposition ἐν is being followed by the relative pronoun οἷς with the dative case.

The actual meaning is "in whom". Not "among" but rather "in" just like it was translated six words later "in the lusts..." Gk: ἐν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις" (the article+noun having the dative case) and like it was in v.2 where the lead in phrase is "ἐν αἷς ποτε" where ἐν is also followed by the dative.

The reason this is important is that believers were also once in the lusts of their flesh while being "in":

Eph 2:2 in which once ye did walk according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience,

We were "in", not simply "among" (as if being nearby) but rather "in" and "of the spirit" that works disobedience.

That's why all who work lawlessness (Psa 5:5) are said to be "hated" by God. The reason for this is that there is no difference between those who walk "in the flesh".

Eph 2:3 among whom also we all did walk once in the desires of our flesh, doing the wishes of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath—as also the others,

The wrath of God is against the flesh that works lawlessness, not the spirit of man (the breath of life). All human beings, both believers and non-believers alike, are "loved" (according to the spirit) and "hated" (according to the flesh).

I know that this does not sit well with Calvin's theology, but it is what it is.

Eph 2:3 is just saying that the elect have the same sinful nature as the non elect and are just as worthy of wrath.

But God Loves the elect while they are dead in their sins Eph 2:4-5

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Yet the workers of iniquity, God hates them in their sin Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Too bad you cant discern the difference.

 

[Christ_empowered]

So…the elect sin but are not workers of iniquity? I’m genuinely truly confused

 

[brightfame52]

So…the elect sin but are not workers of iniquity? I’m genuinely truly confused

I have been explaining my view

 

[TahitiRun]

God doesnt hate the elect as sinners, but He hates the workers of iniquity. You just lack discernment of the truth

Actually God does, as David tells us.

However God's "hate" is heavenly, not like Calvin's "hate" (and perhaps your own) that is carnal and fleshly and worldly and filled with malice.

Jesus commands us (Luk 14:26) to "hate" our parents and if married to "hate" our own wife (that which God Himself joined us to). And, by implication to follow Him according to spirit rather than flesh. Think that through for a moment: What God has joined together, Christ has told us to "hate". It's speaking of "flesh and spirit" that the soul (all human beings) were comprised of and joined together with at creation (Gen 2:7). One to be hated (flesh), the other loved (spirit).

And yet, Christ also commands us to "love" our enemies and to "hate" those we love. Jesus tells us to be like our heavenly Father.

Psa 5:5 is spiritual, not carnal. It speaks to God's own preference/love for the the mind of the "spirit" (life) over the mind of the "flesh" (death).

Rom 8:6 for the mind of the flesh is death, and the mind of the Spirit—life and peace;

That's what David was speaking of. And it's applicable to all who work iniquity.

 

[brightfame52]

Even though by nature the elect work iniquity like any other sinner, yet they aren't the workers of iniquity that God hates Ps 5:5 neither are they they which Christ says to them I never knew you Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now in contrast, the elect or sheep of Christ, Christ knows them and says He specifically laid down His Life for Jn 10: 11-15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. Now we know Christ sheep were sinners like they which work iniquity, else why did Christ lay down His Life for them ? Yet as not with the Sheep whom Christ knows [ginōskō] Vs 14 They which work iniquity Christ says He NEVER KNEW[ginōskō] Vs 23

This is a notable difference between sinners, some Christ never knew, and some He knew and gave His Life for.

 

[TahitiRun]

Even though by nature the elect work iniquity like any other sinner, yet they aren't the workers of iniquity that God hates Ps 5:5 neither are they they which Christ says to them I never knew you Matt 7:23

The judgment is against the flesh. However, instead of commenting further I'll simply post scripture and let you think about it:

Psa 5:5 The boastful may not stand before thy eyes; thou hatest all evildoers.

Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'

1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Psa 5:5 The boastful may not stand before thy eyes; thou hatest all evildoers.

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

 

[brightfame52]

The judgment is against the flesh. However, instead of commenting further I'll simply post scripture and let you think about it:

Psa 5:5 The boastful may not stand before thy eyes; thou hatest all evildoers.

Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'

1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Psa 5:5 The boastful may not stand before thy eyes; thou hatest all evildoers.

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Did you understand the contrast I showed ?