Are guns now part of our worship at church?

[th1b.taylor]

So you are saying that you believe our churches should be armed with guns, is that right?
Or are you just spewing at me?

No, I am spewing at no one nor should they think so. There have always been carriers in the Church, they are wise and just do not tell everybody. Officers must carry, always, and that must never change because of their personal safety. They never know when they will be face to face with someone they arrested that went to the Pen that holds a grudge.

 

[Roro1972]

It seems to me the issue comes down to one of fear. Do we walk with trust and confidence in God, or do we walk in fear of the world? Do we let the world define our Christian walk? If the world has guns, we need guns - is that the proper Christian perspective? is that what God wants and expects? is that the message God wants believers to communicate? Is a church with armed deacons, metal detectors and stern warnings out front really what God wants?

As a Christian, I have to believe that what occurred in the Texas church was God's plan for the victims on that day. How that incident fit into God's larger plan, no one knows. I wouldn't demean the victims by even suggesting how it might have fit. But if I didn't believe the incident was in some way God's plan for the victims, it seems to me the entire framework of my belief would collapse. I have to believe that if the church had had armed deacons, metal detectors and stern warnings out front, the incident would have unfolded pretty much as it did - because it was God's plan.

Is there an inconsistency in using the locks on our homes and cars? Probably - I know people who don't. If there is an inconsistency, it is not one that would point in the direction of armed deacons and metal detectors in churches. It would point in the direction of asking ourselves, "Why do I do that, if I am walking with trust and confidence in God? For all my Christian prattle, do I perhaps not have the faith of a mustard seed?"

curious do you believe God sends these crazy people into shhools and churches to slaughter people?

So you are saying that you believe our churches should be armed with guns, is that right?
Or are you just spewing at me?

we are to follow our government laws; churches are not on the illegal to carry list. so it is legal to carry anywhere Not on the list, Bars-airport/airplane-Hospitals ( some states say if they evaluate mental patients then its illegal)-schools-government buildings-and private business with sign posted. Any where else is lawful. Church seems an unlikely place but I would rather shoot a person than they shoot my family and one is most likely to have family with them at church

 

[Runner]

curious do you believe God sends these crazy people into shhools and churches to slaughter people?

Your question is neither sincere nor deserving of an answer.

 

[Jim Parker]

FYI and perspective:
Devin Patrick Kelley: An anti-Christian, atheist ‘outcast’
http://www.gopusa.com/devin-patrick-kelley-an-anti-christian-atheist-outcast/?omhide=true

 

[Free]

It seems to me the issue comes down to one of fear. Do we walk with trust and confidence in God, or do we walk in fear of the world? Do we let the world define our Christian walk? If the world has guns, we need guns - is that the proper Christian perspective? is that what God wants and expects? is that the message God wants believers to communicate? Is a church with armed deacons, metal detectors and stern warnings out front really what God wants?

As a Christian, I have to believe that what occurred in the Texas church was God's plan for the victims on that day. How that incident fit into God's larger plan, no one knows. I wouldn't demean the victims by even suggesting how it might have fit. But if I didn't believe the incident was in some way God's plan for the victims, it seems to me the entire framework of my belief would collapse. I have to believe that if the church had had armed deacons, metal detectors and stern warnings out front, the incident would have unfolded pretty much as it did - because it was God's plan.

Is there an inconsistency in using the locks on our homes and cars? Probably - I know people who don't. If there is an inconsistency, it is not one that would point in the direction of armed deacons and metal detectors in churches. It would point in the direction of asking ourselves, "Why do I do that, if I am walking with trust and confidence in God? For all my Christian prattle, do I perhaps not have the faith of a mustard seed?"

Agreed.

 

[Free]

Jesus made a whip and he used it. At the temple, I might add.

Apples and oranges. Jesus’s purging the Temple of sin (no evidence he even hit anyone) has absolutely no relevance to someone walking into a church with the intent to injure and kill.

Mat 5:11 "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. (ESV)

Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. (ESV)

1Pe 2:23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. (ESV)

If we are to “bless those who persecute” us, why should the thought of using guns even cross our minds?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It seems to me the issue comes down to one of fear. Do we walk with trust and confidence in God, or do we walk in fear of the world? Do we let the world define our Christian walk? If the world has guns, we need guns - is that the proper Christian perspective? is that what God wants and expects? is that the message God wants believers to communicate? Is a church with armed deacons, metal detectors and stern warnings out front really what God wants?

As a Christian, I have to believe that what occurred in the Texas church was God's plan for the victims on that day. How that incident fit into God's larger plan, no one knows. I wouldn't demean the victims by even suggesting how it might have fit. But if I didn't believe the incident was in some way God's plan for the victims, it seems to me the entire framework of my belief would collapse. I have to believe that if the church had had armed deacons, metal detectors and stern warnings out front, the incident would have unfolded pretty much as it did - because it was God's plan.

Is there an inconsistency in using the locks on our homes and cars? Probably - I know people who don't. If there is an inconsistency, it is not one that would point in the direction of armed deacons and metal detectors in churches. It would point in the direction of asking ourselves, "Why do I do that, if I am walking with trust and confidence in God? For all my Christian prattle, do I perhaps not have the faith of a mustard seed?"

Matthew 4:7;
"Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

If it is a sensible thing to lock your car and doors, then do it.
Don't leave them open and put the Lord your God to the test.
That is not sensible
If you are afraid of being killed while attending church, then hire a policeman.
It is his job to defend you.
Our job is to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and to pray for all.

 

[Runner]

Leo Tolstoy, the great Russian novelist who also wrote extensively and deeply on Christianity, believed that the "resist not evil" message of Matthew 5:38-48 was the key to the entire gospel, that evil can only be defeated by not resisting it. I believe Jesus' message was far more radical in many respects than we give it credit for being. When it's too radical for comfort, we spin it and water it down to make it more palatable. The experiment would be a long one and probably not pretty over the short term, but ultimately I believe that this radical approach would have a transformative effect.

As we can see on this thread, the experiment is never going to be tried. To my mind, Christians arming themselves with guns and turning their churches into fortresses is exactly the wrong approach, an approach that is only going to perpetuate and exacerbate the evil that such Christians delude themselves into thinking they are opposing.

What I believe I am seeing is the thinking of that curious species of "Christianity," almost unique to America, that confuses right-wing political views with Christian doctrine and for which "the right to bear arms, defend myself with lethal force, and take no [you-know-what] from anyone" is as much a part of the gospel as John 3:16.

 

[Northman]

I believe Jesus' message was far more radical in many respects than we give it credit for being.

Many do indeed understand.

As we can see on this thread, the experiment is never going to be tried.

The experiment you are talking about has been done over and over again and is even happening right now in some places.

What I believe I am seeing is the thinking of that curious species of "Christianity," almost unique to America, that confuses right-wing political views with Christian doctrine and for which "the right to bear arms, defend myself with lethal force, and take no [you-know-what] from anyone" is as much a part of the gospel as John 3:16.

It isn't something that is or has been unique to America. Pretty much every nation that gains power and has a bulk of believers has had these problems. The problems usually come through the doctrines of politicians/rulers who get no revelation and probably aren't believers in the first place. Instead they try to weave the worldly and spiritual together. This is usually done to cater to a voting population or prevent whatever unrest they are dealing with. It's not right but it's all they have to work with and a great many get fooled.

 

[Roro1972]

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/...d-trained-congregant-every-u-s-house-worship/

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/...d-trained-congregant-every-u-s-house-worship/

poor guy, lives right in the middle of a war zone
thinks everyone should be ready to kill
If that's how people think Christianity is suppose to be, then I think we need to start over

 

[jasonc]

poor guy, lives right in the middle of a war zone
thinks everyone should be ready to kill
If that's how people think Christianity is suppose to be, then I think we need to start over

do you walk around obviously to danger. why have locks on cars? after no would rob you? no one would rob your house either?

sadly people do just that. like I said I came out of service to find my truck having two flat tires and keyed. I never met the girl who I thought possibly did this in spite. imagine if it was someone who wanted to rob me and broke the windows to get what they wanted. either way its no different then simple minimizing loss . when you see the problem of no guns in church but the church should have property insurance to protect itself from kids getting hurt on the playground, at service , then what verse is a lawsuit thing.

I have known a women who sued for the right to work where she wanted to at church and it was over race. the church also robbed me of wages and was sued but not by me and had to pay me lost wages. people do sue and sadly rather then mediate and avoid court they do the opposite and the church might just loose. its the world we live in.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

do you walk around obviously to danger. why have locks on cars? after no would rob you? no one would rob your house either?

sadly people do just that. like I said I came out of service to find my truck having two flat tires and keyed. I never met the girl who I thought possibly did this in spite. imagine if it was someone who wanted to rob me and broke the windows to get what they wanted. either way its no different then simple minimizing loss . when you see the problem of no guns in church but the church should have property insurance to protect itself from kids getting hurt on the playground, at service , then what verse is a lawsuit thing.

I have known a women who sued for the right to work where she wanted to at church and it was over race. the church also robbed me of wages and was sued but not by me and had to pay me lost wages. people do sue and sadly rather then mediate and avoid court they do the opposite and the church might just loose. its the world we live in.

And like I've said to you many times before, you live in a bad neighborhood.
You need to take your neighborhood back for Jesus, start a revival out in the streets or whatever you need to do.

 

[jasonc]

And like I've said to you many times before, you live in a bad neighborhood.
You need to take your neighborhood back for Jesus, start a revival out in the streets or whatever you need to do.

that is all churches per LAW of the State of Florida. a revival isn't going to have everyone repent. you must have property insurance and insure your workers if they simply teach sunday school as we don't want pedophiles handling kids. a background check is required. you want a bible driven grade and high school that is what YOU must do!

the rich nor the poor aren't exempt from crime. murders happen on the beach, two I know of since I have been working for the city. one was in a guarded area.

 

[jasonc]

And like I've said to you many times before, you live in a bad neighborhood.
You need to take your neighborhood back for Jesus, start a revival out in the streets or whatever you need to do.

I don't even attend that Church anymore which its not even in a neighborhood its kinda isolated from other communities.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Apples and oranges. Jesus’s purging the Temple of sin (no evidence he even hit anyone) has absolutely no relevance to someone walking into a church with the intent to injure and kill.

Mat 5:11 "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. (ESV)

Rom 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. (ESV)

1Pe 2:23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. (ESV)

If we are to “bless those who persecute” us, why should the thought of using guns even cross our minds?

One thing I've noticed whether in Vietnam or here at home, when a Criminal or any other civilian decides to shoot you, there is no time to negotiate and you can have fifty Guns in twenty-five cars in the Parking Lot, in the trunk and if one of the gun owners could get get to the vehicle I and and anyone else would be able to exp[end a couple to 600 rounds and have anywhere fro fifty to a couple of hundred dead and ready for the funeral.

In times of war it is wise to be prepared and folks this is the very thing I and a half million other young men fought to keep out of here but you, like it or not, you at war with the Forces of Evil! Will you watch your loved ones be slaughtered as we did Hogs and Cattle n the farm? Children, it is time to wake up or to die.

Personally, I will welcome death once I get past the pain of it but I must ask, are you, also as Home Sick as I am to go home to be with the Father and His Son...today?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Matthew 4:7;
"Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”

If it is a sensible thing to lock your car and doors, then do it.
Don't leave them open and put the Lord your God to the test.
That is not sensible
If you are afraid of being killed while attending church, then hire a policeman.
It is his job to defend you.
Our job is to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and to pray for all.

It is also my job, as per the scriptures, to protect my family and using all of the Bible and not Cherry Picking the scriptures, if we fail to d that there is nothing worse than that cowad on this planet.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It is also my job, as per the scriptures, to protect my family and using all of the Bible and not Cherry Picking the scriptures, if we fail to d that there is nothing worse than that cowad on this planet.

Was the Apostle Paul a coward when he died for his faith in Christ, or was he too a coward as you say?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Was the Apostle Paul a coward when he died for his faith in Christ, or was he too a coward as you say?

That is a set up seeking to make thine self look me scriptural than I and is silly enough to be ignored because you are trying to lace Pal in the position of protecting the mothers and children.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

That is a set up seeking to make thine self look me scriptural than I and is silly enough to be ignored because you are trying to lace Pal in the position of protecting the mothers and children.

In the English language, you make no sense.
In Scripture, I live by it.
It's not a use it as I need it type of life style.