Are guns now part of our worship at church?

[Free]

I have not said a word about a sacred offering and I believe we both need to forgive and agree to disagree.

You most certainly did say "a word about a sacred offering." Here are your words:

"I care not if you ever believe it or not, in the passages being discussed, Jesus told His Disciples not to be the sacred offering, as He did."

Found here: http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...r-worship-at-church.71680/page-8#post-1385886

I have asked for where Jesus said this but you haven't provided any verse and are now even denying you ever "said a word about a sacred offering." You have put words in my mouth while falsely accusing me of doing it to you, and now you are being completely dishonest about what you have said.

 

[Free]

It being church doesn't mean you don't need a gun there. If the congregation had in been armed in that one church, so many people would not be dead.

And how does that square with Scripture?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Nobody ordered Moses to kill that Egyptian that was roughing up the Hebrew guy. Moses came over and took him out in defense of His people, one of his own. What the heck is wrong with that?

He went against the authorities and had to run away for 40 years.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Last night at church I expressed my disapproval of guns in the church to an elder
He said he agrees with me, he doesn't like the church being locked up either
But he said many women in the church had expressed before this Texas incident that they were afraid and so they decided to comfort those that were weak in their faith by having gun carriers and locking the doors.
Last night, a retired pastor in our congregation ( I didn't know he was a pastor) gave the sermon.
He preached on Isaiah 43 and Psalm 23.
He preached the importance of trusting God,having faith in God, and how God is the one that protects us , nothing and no one else.
I wonder how many people this message rang home to?
And our pastor asked him to give it.
I told him he spoke the words of the Spirit of God.

Does anyone disagree?

 

[jasonc]

Last night at church I expressed my disapproval of guns in the church to an elder
He said he agrees with me, he doesn't like the church being locked up either
But he said many women in the church had expressed before this Texas incident that they were afraid and so they decided to comfort those that were weak in their faith by having gun carriers and locking the doors.
Last night, a retired pastor in our congregation ( I didn't know he was a pastor) gave the sermon.
He preached on Isaiah 43 and Psalm 23.
He preached the importance of trusting God,having faith in God, and how God is the one that protects us , nothing and no one else.
I wonder how many people this message rang home to?
And our pastor asked him to give it.
I told him he spoke the words of the Spirit of God.

Does anyone disagree?

Did you church also teach that all times not to use force ,call the cops to stop a crime.

Trust God or don't in all places .a church isn't a building. I have church without walls ,not even a tent.the army has a portable baptism trailer .it's used but I have seen that,mostly communion is used.

If we want to assume only church is the place where that it's to trust God then that must include school, the columbine massacre was a presection committed by Dylan ryngold,he asked believe in God ? Answer yes he shot you.

 

[jasonc]

Logically self defense the attempt to stop a crime by those too weak physically would preclude any weapon by that position. Nor would an unarmed or trained unarmed mam against a knife or gun have a better chance then with a gun.

In disarming procedures the word is be prepared to be stabbed and shot ,it's more likely that you will survive if you do know how to disarm.

That's takes alot of practice to be good at. It also will include use of other than a gun if you want to learn the asp or also escrima stick .

The latter will maim.it's because my hobby,the above ,I harp on you on to tell me how exactly to disarm a man with a gun without him being seriously maimed or dead.

 

[Northman]

If you can show me where Jesus literally in the context of 1st century ad Roman rule that they had to allow bodily harm of their persons ,post said verse

Turn the other cheek means literally that.hits the one side let him hint he other.

If a man sues, no court ,no insurance ,sign the stuff,give cash over.in the first century there was several things the Romans did.the asking of a cloak,to carry his gear for one mile

You are implying that implies you can't defend yourself
A slap to the face was an insult not am intent of bodily arm.notice theft and murder weren't listed .

You just confirmed by saying yes I should defend myself ,yet want scripture to support that.thats implied in the torah and regulated. A theif caught at night could be killed,during the day he waa to repay your loss fourfold.

The idea of forgiving your enemies isn't new,it was first said by Moses!

Context of those pacifists position or semi in your case.i can any force but a gun yet with my.training ,a choke will likely cause his death.lethal intent will be met with the same. He chokes out,limbs break,or is knocked out.

I'm old ,I'm not playing with a knife holder if I have a gun

You are going to actually answer something for conversation to continue. We can't continue where you just barrage and answer nothing then try and call me out as dodging, the exact thing you are doing.

 

[Northman]

Mistakes happen but you quote me and I and everyone else will read it as pointed at my remark. Shalom!

I would hope people would read the origin of the conversation and not actually do what you say.

 

[jasonc]

You are going to actually answer something for conversation to continue. We can't continue where you just barrage and answer nothing then try and call me out as dodging, the exact thing you are doing.

Fine, Jesus Said If A Man wantS To RApe My Wife ,Kill ME At home,House ,Church Do Not Stop it.

If turn the cheek ,isn't literal in any sense of historical context it's meaning is what ever you want.insults isn't a personal harm.

A building isn't a church setting fire to a building with no one in it isn't going to magically kI'll the church.

Since you can't produce a scripture saying I can't in church use my hands as I have training in it to grab an attacker ,toss him on the ground,mount and choke until death,crush his head with foot ,incapitate,thus in violation of bless those that persecute you.we have an impasse.carrying a gun,drawing it aND discharging it should he continue the attack and not flee is no different then me holding a choke listening for his final breath and holding for 30 seconds.it's a sound I have heard it's a loud gurgle.I have made that noise when I didn't tap fast enough.

If you agreed to my question of in church upon an attempt to harm me ,my wife, family that I can use my training. Then de facto lethal force via gun is No different

You just refuse to see that you are in agreement that lethal force is what exactly will be used in a response if need be.if he carries a gun and I wind up choking him and he dies,he dies. With a disarm of a gun .I will take it and pistol whip him into submission if able to first.

 

[jasonc]

You Asked Scripture ,I Gave You mY view,Self Defense Is allowed.

You said just that a few pages ago.I don make a distinguish between buildings to determine when a worship,bible study I'd occured it's when it's occurring that it's a church.not where,and in what building.

Chow hall and barracks have been a church to me .

 

[Northman]

Does anyone disagree?

Not at all. My initial thoughts on your first post were more along the lines of this retired pastor of yours. I suspected there had to be some catering to the weaker believers, not that it is a bad thing to do that. It just seemed weird to announce the whole thing. To me that seemed anti-faith, but if he was moved to get people to calm down so they could even be able to listen...

 

[Northman]

Fine

OK fine. Did the guy actually threaten your church? Lets not get into splitting hairs about what you consider your church. Did he threaten the congregation like you alluded to with him being in the parking lot or do you just perceive him to be a continued threat to your family?

Jesus Said If A Man wantS To RApe My Wife ,Kill ME At home,House ,Church Do Not Stop it.

I haven't read that anywhere.

If turn the cheek ,isn't literal in any sense of historical context it's meaning is what ever you want.insults isn't a personal harm.

A building isn't a church setting fire to a building with no one in it isn't going to magically kI'll the church.

What does this have to do with anything? To me, I'm reading this and it is making no sense for anything to do with the conversation.

Since you can't produce a scripture saying I can't in church use my hands as I have training in it to grab an attacker ,toss him on the ground,mount and choke until death,crush his head with foot ,incapitate,thus in violation of bless those that persecute you.we have an impasse.carrying a gun,drawing it aND discharging it should he continue the attack and not flee is no different then me holding a choke listening for his final breath and holding for 30 seconds.it's a sound I have heard it's a loud gurgle.I have made that noise when I didn't tap fast enough.

You are looking for a piece of scripture with that exact wording? It seems you are focused on the legalism of it all as much as you are with describing exactly how you would hurt someone, which is weird to hear from a combatant because you can't actually plan those things out.

If you agreed to my question of in church upon an attempt to harm me ,my wife, family that I can use my training. Then de facto lethal force via gun is No different

You just refuse to see that you are in agreement that lethal force is what exactly will be used in a response if need be.if he carries a gun and I wind up choking him and he dies,he dies. With a disarm of a gun .I will take it and pistol whip him into submission if able to first.

See here is where the problem lies. I haven't refused anything. The deal is that I know I have been tainted by violence and it has left it's mark. What I do is shut up about it and not try to give the brethren a bunch of excuses or justify myself every single time I want to or actually do something. I do wrong and know it and won't be promoting it. Yes if someone is stupid enough to try and do my family harm while in my presence, church building or not, they are probably going to find a knife in their neck. This isn't something to justify. The justification is already done. What's permissible and profitable are what's being dealt with there. Elder men of peace that shake their head at such things are to serve as a reminder of where we need to be going, not have us pipe up and tell them how much we are allowed to do what.

 

[Northman]

Chow hall and barracks have been a church to me .

Ok I think I see what you are saying now about this. The thing is though if you want to argue buildings and such you will have to look elsewhere.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You Asked Scripture ,I Gave You mY view,Self Defense Is allowed.

You said just that a few pages ago.I don make a distinguish between buildings to determine when a worship,bible study I'd occured it's when it's occurring that it's a church.not where,and in what building.

Chow hall and barracks have been a church to me .

So what you are saying is that you are a trained killer.
How is that Christian?
What Scripture do you use to back up your life style?

 

[th1b.taylor]

You most certainly did say "a word about a sacred offering." Here are your words:

"I care not if you ever believe it or not, in the passages being discussed, Jesus told His Disciples not to be the sacred offering, as He did."

Found here: http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...r-worship-at-church.71680/page-8#post-1385886

I have asked for where Jesus said this but you haven't provided any verse and are now even denying you ever "said a word about a sacred offering." You have put words in my mouth while falsely accusing me of doing it to you, and now you are being completely dishonest about what you have said.

No, I diden't, Jesus said that and I quoted Scripture. If you think a former alcoholic drug smoking, pill popping and needle pushing, plastic cowboy ps jesus, youngster, you have issues as in plural.

posted by:Milk-Drops]Identity politics isn't just minority issues, it's the use of identity in general as a means in politics. The right utilize it equally in patriotism, natioanlism, and judo Christian Values.

I am so weary of people practicing their Faith/Religion in Atheism and or Satanism ande coming here, never to ask the first question about what we believe nor why we believe what we believe and why but are here for no other than to prove their ignorance and demonstrate their inability to tolerate anything they do not agree with and they seek to either tear down and destroy or to Proselytize to ruin what others a building for God.

if any man o woman can be so intolerant as to accuse others of his or her sick mindset and to work, steadily at destroying other's basic drives for life is sick, sick, sick. You crank up the attitude every time we get into a discusswion

if there is nothing of value you can contribute that is productive and if you have no questions that might help you in your dealings with us, what else could your purpose be? You have been respected here in a mannor that you and your associates have never afforded one of us that visits you forums, so spit it out or go somewhere, you are becoming a neusance and an irritant with your superior attitude.
ing

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I would say that the churches must have a way to protect the Church people with at least a security Guard or system with Guns.

 

[Free]

No, I diden't, Jesus said that and I quoted Scripture.

You claim you quoted Scripture and I simply asked for where Jesus said that. If you did quote Scripture, it should be easy to provide a verse, but you have so far failed to provide any.

If you think a former alcoholic drug smoking, pill popping and needle pushing, plastic cowboy ps jesus, youngster, you have issues as in plural.

I have no idea what you're saying here.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Someone told me that the Lounge was a place for casual conversation and fellowship.
A lot of what I'm hearing is nauseating, not at all casual or fellowshipping.
What's up with that?

 

[Mike]

Someone told me that the Lounge was a place for casual conversation and fellowship.
A lot of what I'm hearing is nauseating, not at all casual or fellowshipping.
What's up with that?

Well said. I agree, so this thread is closed. Half of what I read here amounts to denying and accusing things having been said. This is a deeply emotional subject, particularly following a horrible tragedy. It appears too sensitive a topic to be discussed calmly and respectfully at this time.