Are the Elect the only ones who will be saved?

[Alfred Persson]

11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! (Rom. 9:11-14 NKJ)

A Thought Experiment: Imagine the Elect aren't the only ones saved. What shall we say then?

There certainly is no unrighteousness with God when He Elects unto salvation whoever He chooses to have mercy upon, because He did not thereby Reprobate unto damnation those He did not elect.

Is there scripture proving its not just the Elect that can be saved? Yes, in the symbolism of the book of life:

The names of the Elect are in the Book of Life (Phil. 4:3; Rev. 13:8; 17:8) but other names written in this Book cannot be of the "Elect" because those names can be blotted out (Rev. 3:5; Exod. 32:32; Ps. 69:28) or written in (Ps. 69:28; 87:6; Mal. 3:16).

Blotted Out:
"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Rev. 3:5 NKJ)

32 "Yet now, if You will forgive their sin-- but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written."
33 And the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. (Exod. 32:32-33 NKJ)

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. (Ps. 69:28 NKJ)

Written In:
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. (Ps. 69:28 NKJ)

The LORD will record, When He registers the peoples: "This one was born there." Selah (Ps. 87:6 NKJ)

Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, And the LORD listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the LORD And who meditate on His name. (Mal. 3:16 NKJ)

As God did not arbitrarily exclude people from the Book of Life when He wrote the names of the Elect in, others beside the Elect can be saved. Therefore, all the scriptures inviting everyone to believe, to choose life, aren't a charade. They are genuine offers for life.


Moreover, everyone assumes Esau is unsaved. He clearly wasn't one of God's Elect. But is he unsaved eternally?

Although the writer of Hebrews describes him as a Godless profane person who sold his birth right for a meal (Heb. 12:16), he also notes Esau and Jacob both were blessed "concerning things to come":

By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. (Heb. 11:20 NKJ)

It doesn't appear from this Esau is cursed "concerning things to come" to damnation. Just the opposite.

Although the sins of the descendants of Esau led to their destruction, God enriched Esau's first descendants and destroyed the Horites from before them just as He did for Israel:

The Horites formerly dwelt in Seir, but the descendants of Esau dispossessed them and destroyed them from before them, and dwelt in their place, just as Israel did to the land of their possession which the LORD gave them.) (Deut. 2:12 NKJ)

3 `Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the River, led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his descendants and gave him Isaac.
4 `To Isaac I gave Jacob and Esau. To Esau I gave the mountains of Seir to possess, but Jacob and his children went down to Egypt. (Jos. 24:3-4 NKJ)

Although Paul focuses on God's right to do with His creation as He wills, that wouldn't exhaust all the reasons why "there is no unrighteousness with God". When it comes to salvation, God isn't partial:


4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-- indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. (Rom. 2:4-16 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

This is not a new idea. The Pharisees believed there were three classes of People on Judgment Day: The Righteous, the Wicked, and the “Middling” or “To be determined” and this required the existence of multiple “books”:


[I.15 A] Said R. Kruspedai said R. Yohanan, “Three books are opened [by God] on the New Year: one for the thoroughly wicked, one for the thoroughly righteous, and one for middling [people].
“The thoroughly righteous immediately are inscribed and sealed for [continued] life.
[C] “The thoroughly wicked immediately are inscribed and sealed for death.
[D] “Middling [people] are left hanging from New Year until the Day of Atonement.
[E] “If they [are found to have] merit, they are inscribed for life.
[F] “If they [are found] not [to have] merit, they are inscribed for death.”
[G] Said R. Abin, “What is the Scriptural [foundation for this]? [Ps. 69:29 states]: ‘Let them be blotted out of the book of the living. Let them not be inscribed among the righteous.’ ‘Let them be blotted out of the book’-this refers to the book of the thoroughly wicked. ‘[… of the] living’-this refers to the book of the righteous. ‘Let them not be inscribed among the righteous’-this refers to the book of middling [people].”-Neusner, J. (2011). The Babylonian Talmud: A Translation and Commentary (Vol. 6b, p. 83). Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers.

As a former Pharisee Paul was expert in this Judgment Day tradition (Ac. 22:3; 23:6; 26:4-5). Moreover, John wrote Revelation 20:12-13 100% consistent with it. It is historical fact many Pharisees became Christians (Ac. 15:5; 23:6; 26:5) in Jesus’ Day; Jesus condemned only those traditions that contradicted God’s Word (Mt. 15:5-6).

Our LORD Jesus Christ likened some Pharisee tradition to “treasure”:

Then He said to them, “Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.” (Matt. 13:52 NKJ)

The existence of another class of people standing before God on Judgment Day completely upends all binary Eschatology. Note the consistency.

Three groups exist at this present time:

1)Those who believe and have passed from death in to life (John 5:24-25);
2)Gospel preached to dead who then live according to God in the Spirit (1 Pet. 4:6);
3)The wicked guilty of eternal sin (Mk. 3:29);

Three groups exist during judgment of Sheep and the Goats:
1) Christ’s Brethren already given eternal life;
2) Sheep or middling people who receive eternal life;
3) Goats or Wicked receive death;

Three groups exist during Judgment Day when the books of each group are opened (Rev. 20:12):
1) The book of life for those inscribed for eternal life;
2) The book of the middling people whose good works by God’s grace permit their names be written in the book of life just as happened to the Sheep at Christ’s return;
3) The book of those who practiced wicked works so their names are not written in the book of life (Rev. 20:15).

 

[atpollard]

Wheat and Tares

• Matthew 13:24-30 [NKJV] 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28 "He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' 29 "But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 'Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

Sheep and Goats

• Matthew 25:31-46 [NKJV] 31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides [his] sheep from the goats. 33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 'for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 'I [was] naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed [You], or thirsty and give [You] drink? 38 'When did we see You a stranger and take [You] in, or naked and clothe [You]? 39 'Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did [it] to one of the least of these My brethren, you did [it] to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 'for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 'I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do [it] to one of the least of these, you did not do [it] to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Not Condemned and Condemned Already

• John 3:18-21 [NKJV] 18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

My Sheep and Not My Sheep

• John 10:25-30 [NKJV] 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of My Father's hand. 30 "I and [My] Father are one."

Vessels of Mercy and Vessels of Wrath

• Romans 9:21-24 [NKJV] 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 [What] if God, wanting to show [His] wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

We have "better Rabbi" that have offered lessons suggesting a BINARY nature rather than a TRINARY division suggested by the old Rabbis.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Wheat and Tares

• Matthew 13:24-30 [NKJV] 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28 "He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' 29 "But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 'Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

Sheep and Goats

• Matthew 25:31-46 [NKJV] 31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides [his] sheep from the goats. 33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 'for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 'I [was] naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed [You], or thirsty and give [You] drink? 38 'When did we see You a stranger and take [You] in, or naked and clothe [You]? 39 'Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did [it] to one of the least of these My brethren, you did [it] to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 'for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 'I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do [it] to one of the least of these, you did not do [it] to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Not Condemned and Condemned Already

• John 3:18-21 [NKJV] 18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

My Sheep and Not My Sheep

• John 10:25-30 [NKJV] 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of My Father's hand. 30 "I and [My] Father are one."

Vessels of Mercy and Vessels of Wrath

• Romans 9:21-24 [NKJV] 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 [What] if God, wanting to show [His] wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

We have "better Rabbi" that have offered lessons suggesting a BINARY nature rather than a TRINARY division suggested by the old Rabbis.

There are three classes of people in the Sheep and Goat Judgment. Christians seated with Christ who were raptured, and now reigning with Him as Kings and Priests. Christ points to them, calling them "these my brethren."

The Tares and Wheat of Christendom, judgment starts first with the house of God.

The judgment of the Sheep and the Goats happens at Christ's return, not after the 1000-year millennial Kingdom. Also, unlike Judgment Day when the dead are raised from the Sea, Death, and Hades (Rev. 20:11-15) , no resurrection occurs in Matthew 25: 31-46.

Furthermore, the Sheep cannot be Christians because this Judgment occurs while they are seated with Christ and His angels, as Kings and Priests. "These my Brethren (Mt. 25:40; Rm. 8:29) were "gathered" (2 Thess. 2:1) from the earth during Christ's coming in glory. They reign with Christ as Kings and Priests (Rev. 1:6; 20:4-6; 1 Thess. 4:14-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-58; Mat. 24:29-31; Rev. 14:14-16). Because they believed in Christ when physically alive, they do not "come into judgment, but has passed from death into life." (John 5:24). As Christ's "Brethren" they have authority to judge the unsaved with Christ (Mt. 19:28; 1 Cor. 6:3; Rev. 20:4), the "firstborn among many brethren" (Rm. 8:29).

Both the Sheep and the Goats know Christ, they call Him LORD. They know Christ's disciples but had not joined them in the Faith. King Jesus decrees if they received His disciples (Mt. 12:40) they have received Him. Those who helped His brethren during the Great Tribulation would receive their reward (Mt. 10:42; Mk. 9:41), entry into the Kingdom of God.

Therefore, "all the nations" refers to all the survivors of Armageddon from all nations that heard the Gospel of Christ, but failed to do it. Christ judges those who practiced Christianity as having professed faith in His Name, and He invites them to join "Christ's brethren" seated there with Christ---all the Christians who were raptured at Christ's coming and were then serving as His Kings and Priests (Rev. 1:5-6; 5:10). Its implied the Sheep were "translated" like Enoch (Heb. 11:5) "; changed" "in the twinkling of an eye" (1 Cor. 15:51-52) when they joined the redeemed.

Then the goats are cast into the lake of fire to join the Beast and False Prophet (Mt. 25:41, 46; Rev. 19:20; Compare Mt. 8:10-12; 13:24-30, 36-42; 22:1-14; 24:45-51; 25:24-30).

The rest of the earth who had no connections to “Christ’s brethren” (which implies they had not heard the gospel preached sufficiently to incur liability for not believing it), enter the 1000-year kingdom of Christ. They marry and populate the earth resulting in billions more of humanity to enter the New Heavens and New Earth of God’s Kingdom (Rev. 21:1-8). Although aging has ceased, they do not have eternal life at this time. They must first pass the final test of the earth (Rev. 20:7-15); until then they counted as still "dead" (Rev. 20:12; John 5:25).

Their judgment is ongoing. If anyone sin during the Millennial Kingdom they are cast off accursed, which means tossed into the lake of fire:

The Judgment of the Sheep and Goats At Christ’s Return | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 "All the nations (1484 ἔθνος ethnos) will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the

endtimenews.net

 

[Alfred Persson]

Wheat and Tares

• Matthew 13:24-30 [NKJV] 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28 "He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' 29 "But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 'Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

Sheep and Goats

• Matthew 25:31-46 [NKJV] 31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides [his] sheep from the goats. 33 "And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 'for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 'I [was] naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed [You], or thirsty and give [You] drink? 38 'When did we see You a stranger and take [You] in, or naked and clothe [You]? 39 'Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 "And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did [it] to one of the least of these My brethren, you did [it] to Me.' 41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 'for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 'I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' 44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do [it] to one of the least of these, you did not do [it] to Me.' 46 "And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Not Condemned and Condemned Already

• John 3:18-21 [NKJV] 18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

My Sheep and Not My Sheep

• John 10:25-30 [NKJV] 25 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me. 26 "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of My Father's hand. 30 "I and [My] Father are one."

Vessels of Mercy and Vessels of Wrath

• Romans 9:21-24 [NKJV] 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 [What] if God, wanting to show [His] wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

We have "better Rabbi" that have offered lessons suggesting a BINARY nature rather than a TRINARY division suggested by the old Rabbis.

According to Paul, the Elect aren't the only ones saved:

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day."
9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always."
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
(Rom. 11:7-12 NKJ)

 

[atpollard]

Paul names two Groups that will be saved: The ELECT and Israel.

Israel was blinded at first but "have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not!"

Therefore, both Elect and Non-Elect (their fullness) will be saved.

Yet, none of you agree = Confirmation Bias

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day."
9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always."
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
(Rom. 11:7-12 NKJ)

OK, let's have at it.

Let me ask the obvious question ... WHERE IS THIER FULLNESS?
Did they return to God in the First Century when that generation was still alive?
How did Judaism react when the TEMPLE was utterly destroyed by Rome in AD 70? They physically COULD NOT OBEY THE LAW any longer, did we (the church) gain the rich benefit of their "fullness" then?

Perhaps it happened LATER in History. Luther made a huge effort to reach our Jewish "brothers" with the gospel and ended his efforts penning "All Jews are pigs that should be locked in their synagogues and burned!"

When in your mythical eschatology (as all eschatologies tend to have a mythical character to them) will this FULLNESS happen? Does it involve some revolving door to heaven where Jesus comes and goes far more times than clearer texts like the Gospels claim?

I SAY:
There are only two groups and it happened. The earliest church comprised the ELECT (Jews and Gentiles) who were persecuted by the "Synagogue of Satan" that rejected their God and King [and not for the FIRST time as a people and Nation]. God handed Israel a certificate of divorce in the Prophets. Jesus gathered to himself a bride from ALL PEOPLES ... always a chosen remnant. God is still drawing a remnant out of Israel (the people, not the political entity) into His Church and His Church is still blessed by their inclusion. Each and every member of THE BODY is a blessing to THE BODY.

Your extraordinary claims that a nation with a long and steadfast history of REJECTING GOD is suddenly going to be delivered en-masse requires extraordinary proof. History, thus far, suggests otherwise. Clear Eschatology offers no hints of such an event. So I await evidence beyond a single line from Paul stating Paul's wish for his people if we are going to upend SOTIERIOLOGY and create a THIRD path (two paths to God and one path to hell).

 

[Highway54]

11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! (Rom. 9:11-14 NKJ)

A Thought Experiment: Imagine the Elect aren't the only ones saved. What shall we say then?

There certainly is no unrighteousness with God when He Elects unto salvation whoever He chooses to have mercy upon, because He did not thereby Reprobate unto damnation those He did not elect.

Is there scripture proving its not just the Elect that can be saved? Yes, in the symbolism of the book of life:

The names of the Elect are in the Book of Life (Phil. 4:3; Rev. 13:8; 17:8) but other names written in this Book cannot be of the "Elect" because those names can be blotted out (Rev. 3:5; Exod. 32:32; Ps. 69:28) or written in (Ps. 69:28; 87:6; Mal. 3:16).

Blotted Out:
"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Rev. 3:5 NKJ)

32 "Yet now, if You will forgive their sin-- but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written."
33 And the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. (Exod. 32:32-33 NKJ)

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. (Ps. 69:28 NKJ)

Written In:
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous. (Ps. 69:28 NKJ)

The LORD will record, When He registers the peoples: "This one was born there." Selah (Ps. 87:6 NKJ)

Then those who feared the LORD spoke to one another, And the LORD listened and heard them; So a book of remembrance was written before Him For those who fear the LORD And who meditate on His name. (Mal. 3:16 NKJ)

As God did not arbitrarily exclude people from the Book of Life when He wrote the names of the Elect in, others beside the Elect can be saved. Therefore, all the scriptures inviting everyone to believe, to choose life, aren't a charade. They are genuine offers for life.


Moreover, everyone assumes Esau is unsaved. He clearly wasn't one of God's Elect. But is he unsaved eternally?

Although the writer of Hebrews describes him as a Godless profane person who sold his birth right for a meal (Heb. 12:16), he also notes Esau and Jacob both were blessed "concerning things to come":

By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. (Heb. 11:20 NKJ)

It doesn't appear from this Esau is cursed "concerning things to come" to damnation. Just the opposite.

Although the sins of the descendants of Esau led to their destruction, God enriched Esau's first descendants and destroyed the Horites from before them just as He did for Israel:

The Horites formerly dwelt in Seir, but the descendants of Esau dispossessed them and destroyed them from before them, and dwelt in their place, just as Israel did to the land of their possession which the LORD gave them.) (Deut. 2:12 NKJ)

3 `Then I took your father Abraham from the other side of the River, led him throughout all the land of Canaan, and multiplied his descendants and gave him Isaac.
4 `To Isaac I gave Jacob and Esau. To Esau I gave the mountains of Seir to possess, but Jacob and his children went down to Egypt. (Jos. 24:3-4 NKJ)

Although Paul focuses on God's right to do with His creation as He wills, that wouldn't exhaust all the reasons why "there is no unrighteousness with God". When it comes to salvation, God isn't partial:


4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":
7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness-- indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel. (Rom. 2:4-16 NKJ)

No, but they are the only ones who will go to heaven.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Are the Elect the only ones who will be saved?​

The question needs to be refined. There are 5 elections in scripture

1. Israel .
2. The church (what most people mean when they use the term
3. Angels 1 Timothy 5:21
4. Election to service or office i.e. Christ’s apostles: Luke 6:13
5. Election of the Messiah — “the Chosen One”(Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18a; Luke 9:35; 23:35; 1 Peter 1:20)

You risk the fallacy of equivocation if you don't specify which election the question pertains too as done below:

According to Paul, the Elect aren't the only ones saved:

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it,

 

[Tenchi]

www.soteriology101.com

 

[Alfred Persson]

According to Paul, the Elect aren't the only ones saved:

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day."
9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always."
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
(Rom. 11:7-12 NKJ)

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day."
9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always."
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness (4138 πλήρωμα pleroma)! (Rom. 11:7-12 NKJ)

4138 πλήρωμα pleroma
Meaning: 1) that which is (has been) filled

Now if their stumbling brings riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full number bring! (Rom. 11:12 CSB)

Where was their "fullness" achieved?

In hell. They were blinded, didn't obtain salvation. They died "enemies of the gospel" so they went to hell and in hell they repented and believed in Christ:

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! (Rom. 11:26-33 NKJ)

Paul began distinguishing Israel (who was blinded and did not obtain salvation) from "the Elect" (who weren't blinded and did obtain salvation) Rom. 11:7. Therefore, "election for the sake of the fathers" (Rom. 11:28) is a "election" granted to the descendants of the fathers. Israel as a nation was Elect, not individually as in Romans 11:7.

Its a different kind of election, not equivocation.

Does the Bible teach there is a Second Chance to be saved by Jesus? | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News

Postmortem Opportunity in Biblical Perspective: A New Argument Universal Opportunity for Salvation in Jesus Spans Life and the Afterlife The Fate of those who die unevangelized has been debated ever since the Apostles departed to be with Christ. Did God create knowing the opportunity for...

endtimenews.net

 

[Alfred Persson]

No, but they are the only ones who will go to heaven.

I don't see the word "heaven" in that context. Why are you adding a foreign idea into the context?

 

[atpollard]

I don't see the word "heaven" in that context. Why are you adding a foreign idea into the context?

QFT …

You risk the fallacy of equivocation if you don't specify which election the question pertains to …

 

[Alfred Persson]

QFT …

Paul began distinguishing Israel (who was blinded and did not obtain salvation) from "the Elect" (who weren't blinded and did obtain salvation) Rom. 11:7. Therefore, "election for the sake of the fathers" (Rom. 11:28) is a "election" granted to the descendants of the fathers. Israel as a nation was Elect, not individually as in Romans 11:7.

Its a different kind of election, not equivocation.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Are the Elect the only ones who will be saved?​

The question needs to be refined. There are 5 elections in scripture

1. Israel .
2. The church (what most people mean when they use the term
3. Angels 1 Timothy 5:21
4. Election to service or office i.e. Christ’s apostles: Luke 6:13
5. Election of the Messiah — “the Chosen One”(Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18a; Luke 9:35; 23:35; 1 Peter 1:20)

You risk the fallacy of equivocation if you don't specify which election the question pertains too as done below:

You missed there are two kinds of election, and both exist in the context:

Paul began distinguishing Israel (who was blinded and did not obtain salvation) from individuals "the Elect" (who weren't blinded and did obtain salvation) Rom. 11:7.

Therefore, "election for the sake of the fathers" (Rom. 11:28) is corporate "election" granted to Israel "for the sake of the fathers", because God promised the Patriarchs their descendants would live in the promised land forever.

So neither Paul or I am guilty of equivocation.

God is not Partial. The same opportunity for life He grants Israel in hell He will extend to the Gentiles, just as He extended the Old Covenant He had with Israel, to the New Covenant with the Entire Earth.

 

[Highway54]

I don't see the word "heaven" in that context. Why are you adding a foreign idea into the context?

Your post was about the elect Alfred, who are the elect sir? They are the ones redeemed from the earth Rev 14:3 Perhaps it is because they are called by many titles such as: anointed; holy ones; born again; bride of Christ; etc.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Your post was about the elect Alfred, who are the elect sir? They are the ones redeemed from the earth Rev 14:3 Perhaps it is because they are called by many titles such as: anointed; holy ones; born again; bride of Christ; etc.

Now I understand, you believe only the 144,000 anointed go to heaven, the rest get paradise earth. That belief contradicts

"Heaven" is where God is, and the entire Earth will be heaven when God dwells on earth among the saved, all of them.

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."
6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. (Rev. 21:1-6 NKJ)

That is why there is no temple in NJ, can't worship God in heaven when heaven is on earth.

Then Christ's words will see fulfillment:

"that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. (Jn. 17:21 NKJ)

That is why we must repent of all unrighteousness and sin, beg God the Holy Spirit to cleanse us so we can walk before God and be perfect reflections of His Glory:

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. (Gen. 17:1 NKJ)

I pray God's light shine through me without variation, so no part of His light is hidden to others.

 

[Tenchi]

www.soteriology101.com

 

[atpollard]

www.soteriology101.com

I went there and was unimpressed.
If you have nothing to contribute to THIS conversation, why not say NOTHING rather than spam us with advertisements for your BLOG.

PS. Little of that site actually pertained to Soteriology: "the branch of theology dealing with the study of salvation. The term comes from the Greek soterion, “salvation,” and is also related to soter, “savior.” Soteriology relates to several other branches of theology in that it asks who is saved, by whom, from what, and by what means." - Encyclopedia of Psychology and Religion

Most of it was anti-TULIP Op-Ed pieces - Hardly "College" material (as the "101" implies).

 

[Alfred Persson]

Your post was about the elect Alfred, who are the elect sir? They are the ones redeemed from the earth Rev 14:3 Perhaps it is because they are called by many titles such as: anointed; holy ones; born again; bride of Christ; etc.

Read post #16 above first. Paradise earth is Christ's 1000 year Millennial Kingdom, but its not eternal. It ends. God will make a New Heavens and New Earth and He will dwell among men on earth, that makes earth "heaven" for everyone.

 

[brightfame52]

Are the Elect the only ones who will be saved?​

Yes, Only ones ever promised to be saved Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel is another name for Gods Elect, and its not ethnic national israel, but Spiritual Israel comprised of Abrahams Spiritual Seed through Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.