Are the Elect the only ones who will be saved?

[Tenchi]

I went there and was unimpressed.
If you have nothing to contribute to THIS conversation, why not say NOTHING rather than spam us with advertisements for your BLOG.

It's not my blog. You did actually go to the website, right?

The contents of the website are entirely pertinent to this thread's topic - whether you are personally impressed by the website, or not. Truth doesn't depend, of course, upon the degree to which you're impressed by it.

PS. Little of that site actually pertained to Soteriology: "the branch of theology dealing with the study of salvation. The term comes from the Greek soterion, “salvation,” and is also related to soter, “savior.” Soteriology relates to several other branches of theology in that it asks who is saved, by whom, from what, and by what means." - Encyclopedia of Psychology and Religion

Most of it was anti-TULIP Op-Ed pieces - Hardly "College" material (as the "101" implies).

You didn't actually investigate the site much, did you? Certainly nothing you've written here indicates that you have, and so, your remarks are of little value in offering a useful characterization of its contents.

 

[atpollard]

It's not my blog. You did actually go to the website, right?

I stand corrected ... it was not your blog, you are just thread-crapping advertisements as a shill for someone else's blog.

Yes I read it and I stand by my conclusions.

1. You have nothing to actually say about this topic.
2. A BLOG is, by its nature, unsubstantiated opinions ... the 21st Century equivalent to standing on a soapbox in the village square. That is the antihesis of academic rigor and peer review and unworthy of the "Sotieriology101" designation. It is more like "Anti-Calvinism for Dummies" ... a single purpose work intended for mass consumption by those who already agree with no academic rigor.

"If we read this other chapter here and 'SQUINT' we can see that Romans 9 really means exactly the opposite of what it says" is not exegesis ... it is not even eisegesis ... it is excrement! Even a Methodist Seminary would reject that methodology.

 

[JLB]

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger."
13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! (Rom. 9:11-14 NKJ)

Do you even undetstand this passage of scripture?

The context is not about God electing people for salvation.

of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:5


The election is not about electing for salvation, but election for purpose; the purpose is the bloodline from whom Christ came.

Did you notice that the people in the description happen to be people in the lineage of Christ.

Isaac rather than Ishmael.

Jacob rather than Esau.


The scripture plainly states this.


(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls)
Romans 9:11





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Do you even undetstand this passage of scripture?

The context is not about God electing people for salvation.

of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:5


The election is not about electing for salvation, but election for purpose; the purpose is the bloodline from whom Christ came.

Did you notice that the people in the description happen to be people in the lineage of Christ.

Isaac rather than Ishmael.

Jacob rather than Esau.


The scripture plainly states this.


(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls)
Romans 9:11





JLB

The entire book of Romans is about Salvation, and that includes Rom 9 which majors on Unconditional Election, The purpose of God Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Paul is showing why so many jews arent being saved, its because, national israel was never intended to be saved as a nation, but its a spiritual remnant according to the election of grace, and then Paul demonstrates that.

 

[Tenchi]

I stand corrected ... it was not your blog, you are just thread-crapping advertisements as a shill for someone else's blog.

Shill? Thread-crapping? You sound just like every evangelist for Reformed/Calvinist doctrine I've ever met.

1. You have nothing to actually say about this topic.

Nothing that I haven't said hundreds of times in the past to other...unpleasant folk like yourself.

2. A BLOG is, by its nature, unsubstantiated opinions ... the 21st Century equivalent to standing on a soapbox in the village square.

Uh huh. Well, Leighton Flowers thoroughly substantiates his Provisionist/Traditionalist views and his criticisms of Reformed/Calvinist doctrine along both theological/biblical and philosophical lines. Of course, just knee-jerk reacting in a negative way to his content, as you seem to have done (and as many Calvinists do when they encounter an opposing view), you likely gave little time to fully considering the many videos he's put out. It's a lot easier to just dismiss him as a soap-boxer with unsubstantiated opinions, right? Your sneering opposition, however, suggests nothing else to me but insecurity.

That is the antihesis of academic rigor and peer review and unworthy of the "Sotieriology101" designation.

Uh huh. This ad hominem nonsense is why I stopped talking with Reformed/Calvinist types years ago.

It is more like "Anti-Calvinism for Dummies" ... a single purpose work intended for mass consumption by those who already agree with no academic rigor.

*Sigh* So typical...and wrong.

"If we read this other chapter here and 'SQUINT' we can see that Romans 9 really means exactly the opposite of what it says" is not exegesis ... it is not even eisegesis ... it is excrement! Even a Methodist Seminary would reject that methodology.

Yup. Ridicule and ugly invective seems to be the stock-in-trade of Reformed/Calvinist proponents. This sort of ungracious, hyperbolic description of Dr. Flowers' stuff actually communicates more about you than him and his views - and nothing good, I might add.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Do you even undetstand this passage of scripture?

The context is not about God electing people for salvation.

of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:5


The election is not about electing for salvation, but election for purpose; the purpose is the bloodline from whom Christ came.

Did you notice that the people in the description happen to be people in the lineage of Christ.

Isaac rather than Ishmael.

Jacob rather than Esau.


The scripture plainly states this.


(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls)
Romans 9:11





JLB

Paul's proves election is not based on lineage, or what we do.

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil,

The context is about salvation, not service:

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. (Rom. 11:11 NKJ)

 

[Alfred Persson]

Yes, Only ones ever promised to be saved Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Israel is another name for Gods Elect, and its not ethnic national israel, but Spiritual Israel comprised of Abrahams Spiritual Seed through Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If Israel is another name for God's Elect, explain what Paul says.

According to your "formula: Israel=Elect" Paul is saying:

What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but ISRAEL have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (Rom. 11:7 NKJ)

OR

7 What then? THE ELECT has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (Rom. 11:7 NKJ)


That is gibberish IF YOUR FORMULA IS CORRECT. Therefore, context proves your formula is incorrect, Israel is not another name for "Elect".

 

[JLB]

The entire book of Romans is about Salvation, and that includes Rom 9 which majors on Unconditional Election, The purpose of God Election Rom 9:11

The entire book of Romans is contextually framed in the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Romans 1:4-5


Romans 9 is contexually about the election accprding to purpose, not election according to salvation, as the scripture so plainly states.

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), Romans 9:11


As stated, the purpose of the election was to determine the bloodline of the Messiah.

of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:5

IOW, Jacob was chosen to be the lineage of the Messiah, not Esau.



Irrefutable.




JLB

 

[brightfame52]

If Israel is another name for God's Elect, explain what Paul says.

According to your "formula: Israel=Elect" Paul is saying:

What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but ISRAEL have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (Rom. 11:7 NKJ)

OR

7 What then? THE ELECT has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (Rom. 11:7 NKJ)


That is gibberish IF YOUR FORMULA IS CORRECT. Therefore, context proves your formula is incorrect, Israel is not another name for "Elect".

Yes Israel is another name for Gods elect, but Im not able to explain anything to you. I do most of my explaining to them I believe are open and teachable. But I have other posts you are free to explore where Im sure I have already explained matters of this nature.

 

[brightfame52]

The entire book of Romans is contextually framed in the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Romans 1:4-5


Romans 9 is contexually about the election accprding to purpose, not election according to salvation, as the scripture so plainly states.

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), Romans 9:11


As stated, the purpose of the election was to determine the bloodline of the Messiah.

of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:5

IOW, Jacob was chosen to be the lineage of the Messiah, not Esau.



Irrefutable.




JLB

The Entire book of Romans is about the Gospel of God and Salvation in a theolgical frame work Rom 1:1,15-16

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 9 is within the scope of the Gospel of God and Jesus Christ, which includes Gods purpose of Election and Reprobation,

No one is obedient to the Gospel who rejects Gospel Truths outlined in the Book of Romans.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Yes Israel is another name for Gods elect, but Im not able to explain anything to you. I do most of my explaining to them I believe are open and teachable. But I have other posts you are free to explore where Im sure I have already explained matters of this nature.

LOL. Your Israel=Elect nonsense is so wrong and indefensible you slipped into "cognitive dissonance".

Ha! Hilarious!

 

[brightfame52]

LOL. Your Israel=Elect nonsense is so wrong and indefensible you slipped into "cognitive dissonance".

Ha! Hilarious!

Salvation is Promised to only One Specific Elect People, Israel and it aint national ethnic israel,

Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Isa 46:13

13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

 

[Highway54]

Now I understand, you believe only the 144,000 anointed go to heaven, the rest get paradise earth. That belief contradicts

"Heaven" is where God is, and the entire Earth will be heaven when God dwells on earth among the saved, all of them.

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4 "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful."
6 And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. (Rev. 21:1-6 NKJ)

That is why there is no temple in NJ, can't worship God in heaven when heaven is on earth.

Then Christ's words will see fulfillment:

"that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. (Jn. 17:21 NKJ)

That is why we must repent of all unrighteousness and sin, beg God the Holy Spirit to cleanse us so we can walk before God and be perfect reflections of His Glory:

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. (Gen. 17:1 NKJ)

I pray God's light shine through me without variation, so no part of His light is hidden to others.

We understand it a bit differently Alfred, God will remain in heaven. When Jesus hands the Kingdom back to his God and Father, the world will be back to the starting point of it's original purpose, except already filled with humans. Like Adam, they will have to be tested as well, with the release of satan. The new heavens (which exist now) and the new earth are figurative not literal. There was nothing wrong with God's creation so no need to create a new earth or heaven, rather it simply refers to their cleansing Ecc 1:4.

 

[JLB]

The Entire book of Romans is about the Gospel of God and Salvation in a theolgical frame work Rom 1:1,15-16

The entire book of Romans is contextually framed in the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Romans 1:4-5


Salvation is the result of obeying the Gospel.


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16

 

[JLB]

Paul's proves election is not based on lineage, or what we do.

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil,

The context is about salvation, not service:

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. (Rom. 11:11 NKJ)

Election according to purpose is what Romans 9 is contextually conveying.


of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
Romans 9:5-11


The purpose of election was to determine the bloodline through whom Christ came.

of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came,





JLB

 

[brightfame52]

The entire book of Romans is contextually framed in the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Romans 1:4-5


Salvation is the result of obeying the Gospel.


But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16

Its all about Salvation, obedience is the fruit of Salvation

 

[Highway54]

Read post #16 above first. Paradise earth is Christ's 1000 year Millennial Kingdom, but its not eternal. It ends. God will make a New Heavens and New Earth and He will dwell among men on earth, that makes earth "heaven" for everyone.

The heavens are new now, the earth will be when the final destruction of the wicked happens.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Salvation is Promised to only One Specific Elect People, Israel and it aint national ethnic israel,

Isa 45:17

17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Isa 46:13

13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

 

[brightfame52]

Who was Jesus raised a Saviour to in the NEW Covenant era according to Paul Acts 13:23

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: Israel here is Gods chosen people, not ethnic national israel, its the Church whom Christ Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

 

[Alfred Persson]

Who was Jesus raised a Saviour to in the NEW Covenant era according to Paul Acts 13:23

23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: Israel here is Gods chosen people, not ethnic national israel, its the Church whom Christ Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Friend, you are in the grips of cognitive dissonance. Your "Israel=Elect" is impossible.

According to your "formula: Israel=Elect" By your formula, Paul is saying:

What then? THE ELECT has not obtained what it seeks; but THE ELECT have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (Rom. 11:7 NKJ)

That is SELF-CONTRADICTION.

"The rest were blinded" cannot be "The Elect".

You contradict logic even a child would undersand, but cognitive dissonance doesn't permit a redo of other beliefs.

So, you refuse to acknowledge the obvious, "You are wrong."