Are we missing out if we don't speak in tongues?

[Dave Slayer]

May I please have some thoughts on the following arguments by Dave Williams? Thanks and God Bless!

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is only the beginning. If you have received this wonderful gift and yet see no further manifestations of the supernatural in your life, if you seem to have grown cold with no overflowing joy, peace, love, and power, perhaps it is because you have ignored or neglected your gift. Perhaps you once prayed in tongues, but never continued.

If you miss out on the secret of praying and worshipping in the Spirit, you are missing something that is immeasurable in value. If you are only praying with your understanding, your mind is active, but your spirit is starving. Being, once again, to stir up the gift of God and pray both with your understanding and with the Spirit (in tongues).

The third dimensional relationship with the Holy Spirit is a rousing adventure. It's more breathtaking than being an explorer or a globetrotter. Living in the third dimension with the Holy Spiritis more stirring than being a mountain climber, or wild game hunter. The third dimensional relationship with the Holy Spirit is the mode for walking with God. The first century believers understood this.

 

[toddm]

No where in Scripture are we told that everyone should speak in tongues. Paul's list of rhetorical questions at the end of 1 Corinthians 12 implies that not all speak in tongues, just like not all are teachers or apostles. Speaking in tongues is A way of the Holy Spirit manifesting himself through spiritual gifts, but not the only way and certainly not always. I know many godly, Spirit-filled people who do not have the gift of tongues. If you do have the gift of tongues then I hope you are using it to bring God the glory, but if others don't then don't treat them like second-class Christians. No where in Scripture is there ever a distinction made regarding two types of Christians - normal Christians and Spirit-filled Christians speaking in tongues. You can't even be a Christian if you do not have the Holy Spirit!

 

[Dave Slayer]

You can't even be a Christian if you do not have the Holy Spirit!

I agree but Pentecostals will say that even though all believers have the Holy Spirit, that is different than being filled with the Spirit.

 

[Brother Lionel]

First of all, the "tongues" that most Christians understand today is not biblical. There are three instances and events where people spoke in tongues in the bible and none of them referred to the incoherent gibberish that is going on in the churches today. The tongues that were spoken in the bible were languages that could be understood by someone of another language - not blabber...

Furthermore, the bible says that someone who is able to speak in another language has a gift. It is not necessary for salvation and it is not the fruits of the Spirit. And also, the purpose of tongues (or the ability to speak in another language) should be used to spread the gospel and build the church, not stand in a building and blurp out things that are meaningless. The stuff that we hear in churches today finds its root in ancient pagan worship.

 

[samuel]

NOPE !!.

 

[Brother Lionel]

You can't even be a Christian if you do not have the Holy Spirit!

I agree but Pentecostals will say that even though all believers have the Holy Spirit, that is different than being filled with the Spirit.

But most Pentecostals mean that only incoherent utterance is being "filled with the Spirit". This isnt biblical. In Exodus 31 the Artisans were filled with the Spirit for Building the Tabernacle. And I dont think they spoke in the gibberish that we witness today... But in Acts, when they were filled with the Spirit, they spoke in ANOTHER LANGUAGE, not some gibberish like some buffoons...

 

[Dave Slayer]

[quote="Dave Slayer":ytw7opcj]

You can't even be a Christian if you do not have the Holy Spirit!

I agree but Pentecostals will say that even though all believers have the Holy Spirit, that is different than being filled with the Spirit.

But most Pentecostals mean that only incoherent utterance is being "filled with the Spirit". This isnt biblical. In Exodus 31 the Artisans were filled with the Spirit for Building the Tabernacle. And I dont think they spoke in the gibberish that we witness today... But in Acts, when they were filled with the Spirit, they spoke in ANOTHER LANGUAGE, not some gibberish like some buffoons...[/quote:ytw7opcj]

But Pentecostals say that Romans 8:26 and 1 Corinthians 13:1 teaches a heavenly prayer language.

 

[LostSoul]

God has given us each 'talents' or gifts. It is merely a matter of praying about it and finding God's will in what we are given.

 

[Bick]

The answer is "Of course not!"

The other posts generally have it right.

My understanding is, if for some reason God wanted a believer to speak some foreign language to witness to someone, His Spirit could certainly have him do it.

It is also my understanding that the church at Corinth was one of Paul's early established churches.
Evidently, to witness to Israel that the grace of God for salvation was to the Gentiles as well as the Jews, the Spirit endowed different gifts to the church there.

Paul tells us the reason for these sign gifts, particularly gift of a tougues (other languages).

"In the law it is written, 'WITH MEN OF OTHER TONGUES AND OTHER LIPS WILL I SPEAK UNT0 THIS PEOPLE; AND YET FOR ALL THAT WILL THEY NOT HEAR ME', saith the Lord."
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not..."
1 Cor.14:21, 22, KJV.

But once the Jews rejected the truth that Jesus of Nazereth was, indeed, the Messiah Saviour, Paul stopped going to synagouges first and witnessed only to Gentiles ( Acts 28:24-29.) And then, I believe the sign gifts ended.

 

[Brother Lionel]

But Pentecostals say that Romans 8:26 and 1 Corinthians 13:1 teaches a heavenly prayer language.

This is true, but do these texts really mean to stand in church and blurt out blabber from our mouths which is not a language? Let's see.

Romans 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

groanings used here is the greek word "stenagmos" which means to sigh or give a low, mournful sound uttered in pain or grief

uttered used in this text is the greek word "alalētos" whcich means something not to be uttered, or expressed in words

If anything, this text shows that at times, we go through things that cause grief and suuferings which cause us to show our pain and suffering by our expressions not shown in words, those expressions are interceded by the Holy Spirit when we know not what to ask God for. This text doesnt mean to that we can speak in weird sounds in church and the Spirit "mysteriously" interprets it.


Next verse. 1 Corinthians 13:1 - Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Here we see that Paul uses the word "though". Unlike the Jewish culture, we Americans use the word with a slight difference in understanding. The principle form at which we use the word is as an intro to a clause, however, in the second definition, we can clearly see that the definition is "if". It says the following:

though
1. notwithstanding that; in spite of the fact that; although: Though he tried very hard, he failed the course.
2. even if; granting that (often prec. by even).

So, with this in mind. Paul's verse would appear to have a slightly different understanding.

1 Corinthians 13:1 - Though (even if) I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Here he says that even if I speak in an earthly language or a heavenly one, if I dont have love, then its all useless. He wasnt saying that he used heavenly language because, from a practical stand point, he was never there. He doesnt know the heavenly language. And he definately wasnt saying that we can blurt out whatever comes to mind until our hearts are content as long as we consider it a "heavenly language".

 

[NIGHTMARE]

May I please have some thoughts on the following arguments by Dave Williams? Thanks and God Bless!

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is only the beginning. If you have received this wonderful gift and yet see no further manifestations of the supernatural in your life, if you seem to have grown cold with no overflowing joy, peace, love, and power, perhaps it is because you have ignored or neglected your gift. Perhaps you once prayed in tongues, but never continued.

If you miss out on the secret of praying and worshipping in the Spirit, you are missing something that is immeasurable in value. If you are only praying with your understanding, your mind is active, but your spirit is starving. Being, once again, to stir up the gift of God and pray both with your understanding and with the Spirit (in tongues).

The third dimensional relationship with the Holy Spirit is a rousing adventure. It's more breathtaking than being an explorer or a globetrotter. Living in the third dimension with the Holy Spiritis more stirring than being a mountain climber, or wild game hunter. The third dimensional relationship with the Holy Spirit is the mode for walking with God. The first century believers understood this.

Its fake,,,unless someone is speaking in a language that everyone,,,no matter what language you speak can understand,,,,that loud babel is nothing....

 

[NIGHTMARE]

You can't even be a Christian if you do not have the Holy Spirit!

I agree but Pentecostals will say that even though all believers have the Holy Spirit, that is different than being filled with the Spirit.

Its fake and being that I spent some years in a pentecostal church I can say it just as fake when they do it.....

 

[LostSoul]

Will not deny I am in agreement with the belief that the babble used so much today is for show and not the true practice of speaking in tongues. If you read on speaking in tongues according to scripture....it is supposed to be understood...it has become a pretty common practice amongst some believers to demonstrate their faith much like the pharisees and sadducees flaunted theirs in the temples.

 

[follower of Christ]

Will not deny I am in agreement with the belief that the babble used so much today is for show and not the true practice of speaking in tongues. If you read on speaking in tongues according to scripture....it is supposed to be understood...it has become a pretty common practice amongst some believers to demonstrate their faith much like the pharisees and sadducees flaunted theirs in the temples.

Amen and amen...

 

[jasoncran]

dave are you talking about the gift of tounges and intrepration? or the speaking of tounges that is between you and god, ie when you are baptized witht the holy ghost, which i have been, the former must have an interpreter and can be a language spoken on earth, the latter is between you and the lord.

jason

 

[handy]

I agree with most of what's been written here as well. I also tend to disagree with my beloved Pentecostal brothers and sisters in the Lord when they say that if one does not speak in tongues, one cannot be "baptized by the Holy Spirit".

One needs to apply simple logic here if these words were really true:

If you miss out on the secret of praying and worshipping in the Spirit, you are missing something that is immeasurable in value. If you are only praying with your understanding, your mind is active, but your spirit is starving.

then Paul must be horribly amiss when he says, "All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?", for if the Spirit knew that our own spirit would be "starved" without tongues, surely the Spirit would never deny anyone who had received Christ this gift.

 

[jasoncran]

most people, handy, say toungues, when each person baptized in the holy ghost recieve a prayer language.

the gift of tounges is used for the edification of the church as a whole, the prayer language recieved at baptism edifers the person speaking it.

i have not used that gift for a while, funny to me that most non charismatic, believe in the words of knowlege, discerment , miracles,faith, and healings and so on, but seem to stumble over this one,and prophecy

my church now christian and missionary alliance, was once a full fledged charamastic chruch,(the demonation) now they toned it down. the pastor gave a word that was true as i was going throught that.
do all people speaking in tounges, are sincere, no, same with prophecy, test them, by all means

i think as believers we miss out if dont use these gifts, however it is not a salvation issue , and i have been taught some deep things from charismatic and noncharismatic. there some things that i do wonder on the charasmatic side.

jason

 

[handy]

There is quite the debate as to whether or not someone receives a special "baptism" of the Spirit that is a different experience than when one is born again.

I tend to believe that, while one can be baptized in the Spirit when one is born again, it can also be a different experience as well.

I tend to believe it, because that is how it was with me. I was born again, probably about 3 years before I was baptized in the Spirit.

But I didn't then, nor have I ever since, spoken in tongues.

I figure that if the Lord wants to bless me with tongues, He can go right on ahead and do so, I won't resist it. But, I earnestly desire prophesy and teaching, and desire the Lord to bless me with those gifts.

As far as a "prayer language" wherein the Spirit can intercede with groanings too deep for words, one needn't speak in tongues for that to take place. I've been in a place, more than once in life, where I cried out to the Lord without being able to formulate into words what is in my heart. And, yes, the Spirit does intercede.

 

[jasoncran]

i agree with that, never said that doesnt happen in noncharismatic churches, but if you recieve that baptism and allow those words you hear spoken to you to be spoken you will be amazed, is it always the same, not sure, it is for every believer, yes, if they want it.

hmm maybe i should have hands laid on me and allow the spirit to move again, i have laid hands on others and they have recieved. it's been to long for me.

i struggle with the concept that baptist have of the god has already completed you in the faith that you are enternally secure(not matter how much on the outside you need change, you have all you need imediately upon salvation)i dont believe in osas. i'm refering to the book the rest of the gospel. where it states that natural and the spiritual you and one in the same that we dont have a dual nature, we have only the spirit of god and that part that looks at the flesh and allows it dominate.

i see that we have christ and his spirit and the holy spirit, along with the fleshly nature, god grace is sufficent to cover all but we mus bring our flesh under countrol

now then back to topic

 

[NIGHTMARE]

Will not deny I am in agreement with the belief that the babble used so much today is for show and not the true practice of speaking in tongues. If you read on speaking in tongues according to scripture....it is supposed to be understood...it has become a pretty common practice amongst some believers to demonstrate their faith much like the pharisees and sadducees flaunted theirs in the temples.

YUP ,,,now when some guy starts speaking in Chinese and I can understand every word that comes out of His mouth and I dont speak Chinese,,,then we have the real thing (cloven fire tongue) but that jiberish that sound like a stuttering drunk trying to say the alphabets fast is just