Are you a “True Worshipper”?

[Cnkw3]

Stop dodging.

Slap down a date to back up your assertion. Give me a DATE FROM SCRIPTURE which states the cutoff date for God to inspire an author. Remember to use your criteria and DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:3
Jude, written in the late 60s told the saints to contend for “the faith” not a faith. The one faith that had been preached.
“WHICH WAS ONCE DELIVERED unto the saints“. This phrase is actually saying once for all time delivered. So, jude did not think there was more revelation to come some 75 years later from the shepherd of Hermes. Some may think John wrote Revelation much later but I don’t. I think he completed his writings in the late 60s.

 

[jaybo]

You just made that up. Now show me a passage that contradicts…
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
1 Corinthians 4:6
Whose more puffed up then the pope? People kiss him all day long.
What did Paul say to the Ephesians..
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Ephesians 3:3-5
If this isnt the pattern I don’t know what is.
First……The HS through apostles and prophets provided the info.
Second…These select individuals (not the shepherd of Hermes)then wrote it down. Now when we read we can understand. At least Paul says we can. I‘ll trust Paul over you or the Catholic Church.

Another great post!

 

[Walpole]

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:3
Jude, written in the late 60s told the saints to contend for “the faith” not a faith. The one faith that had been preached.
“WHICH WAS ONCE DELIVERED unto the saints“. This phrase is actually saying once for all time delivered. So, jude did not think there was more revelation to come some 75 years later from the shepherd of Hermes. Some may think John wrote Revelation much later but I don’t. I think he completed his writings in the late 60s.

Stop dodging and slap down a date...FROM SCRIPTURE lest you are going beyond what is written!

Recall in a previous post, you went through the trouble of posting dates for when New Testament books were composed. Here is what you wrote:

• James: AD 44-
• Galatians: AD 49-50
• Mark: AD 50-60
• Matthew: AD 50-60
• 1 Thessalonians: AD 51
• 2 Thessalonians: AD 51-52
• 1 Corinthians: AD 55
• 2 Corinthians: AD 55-56
• Romans: AD 56
• Luke: AD 60-61
• Ephesians: AD 60-62
• Philippians: AD 60-62
• Philemon: AD 60-62
• Colossians: AD 60-62
• Acts: AD 62
• 1 Timothy: AD 62-64
• Titus: AD 62-64
• 1 Peter: AD 64-65
• 2 Timothy: AD 66-67
• 2 Peter: AD 67-68
• Hebrews: AD 67-69
• Jude: AD 68-70
• John: AD 80-90
• 1 John: AD 90-95
• 2 John: AD 90-95
• 3 John: AD 90-95
• Revelation: AD 94-96

(Apologetics press)

If your argument now is Jude's epistle is the cutoff date, then by your logic all books after 70 A.D. should not be accepted as inspired. Based on your list above, that means your Bible should NOT contain the Gospel of John, 1 John, 2nd John, 3rd John, and Revelation.

Now, give me the verse from Scripture which states something along the lines of, "From this date _____, I will cease inspiring authors to put down in writing my written word."

 

[Walpole]

So the people that received the letter of Hebrews in the 60”s DIDNT think it was inspired? I don’t agree with you. Now prove me wrong.

I proved you wrong by providing you with the first extant canonical list of books. It dates from the 2nd century (not the 1st as you asserted) and IT EXCLUDED THE BOOK OF HEBREWS.

Even the progenitor of the Protestant religions himself, Martin Luther, questioned whether Hebrews was canonical and placed it at the back of his New Testament. Of Hebrews, along with James, Jude and Revelation, he wrote: "Up to this point we have had to do with the true and certain chief books of the New Testament. The four which follow have from ancient times had a different reputation." (Source

 

[Cnkw3]

Stop dodging and slap down a date...FROM SCRIPTURE lest you are going beyond what is written!

Recall in a previous post, you went through the trouble of posting dates for when New Testament books were composed. Here is what you wrote:



If your argument now is Jude's epistle is the cutoff date, then by your logic all books after 70 A.D. should not be accepted as inspired. Based on your list above, that means your Bible should NOT contain the Gospel of John, 1 John, 2nd John, 3rd John, and Revelation.

Now, give me the verse from Scripture which states something along the lines of, "From this date _____, I will cease inspiring authors to put down in writing my written word."

No. You asked me…how late was too late? if you recall I said…was an apostle still alive? If not then its probably too late. If the Johns and revelation were written in the 90s and I do not believe they were; what that proves is that an apostle was still alive so therefore those letters written by an apostle would be inspired. What is so hard about that? The apostles were promised that they would be “guided into all truth”. Was john inspired or not? I know you wont answer that. Now was the shepherd of Hermes inspired? Not a chance. And you know It.

 

[Cnkw3]

I proved you wrong by providing you with the first extant canonical list of books. It dates from the 2nd century (not the 1st as you asserted) and IT EXCLUDED THE BOOK OF HEBREWS.

Even the progenitor of the Protestant religions himself, Martin Luther, questioned whether Hebrews was canonical and placed it at the back of his New Testament. Of Hebrews, along with James, Jude and Revelation, he wrote: "Up to this point we have had to do with the true and certain chief books of the New Testament. The four which follow have from ancient times had a different reputation." (Source

Do you think the early church needed a room full of false teaching old men to tell them what books they should listen to and which ones not? You think the saints that received the book of Hebrews has to wait until these false teaching old men said…Ok that’s one good! No wonder you are so confused.
Im not a protestant and martin Luther taught false doctrine. He took those books out because they contradicted his faith alone teaching. This proves nothing more than he didnt know what he was talking about.

 

[jaybo]

Do you think the early church needed a room full of false teaching old men to tell them what books they should listen to and which ones not? You think the saints that received the book of Hebrews has to wait until these false teaching old men said…Ok that’s one good! No wonder you are so confused.
Im not a protestant and martin Luther taught false doctrine. He took those books out because they contradicted his faith alone teaching. This proves nothing more than he didnt know what he was talking about.

Martin Luther saved Christianity! He rescued the faith from the Catholic denomination just like Moses rescued the Hebrews from Egypt.

 

[Cnkw3]

Martin Luther saved Christianity! He rescued the faith from the Catholic denomination just like Moses rescued the Hebrews from Egypt.

I disagree. The catholic church needed to be done away with not reformed.

 

[jaybo]

I disagree. The catholic church needed to be done away with not reformed.

Unfortunately that will never happen. The Catholic priesthood have been using propaganda for a very, very long time and have created a false religion that their adherents consider to be th truth. The Bible has little meaning in their denomination. "Truth" is what their popes have created for a very, very long time and sadly they believe that their "truth" is of God.

 

[Walpole]

No. You asked me…how late was too late? if you recall I said…was an apostle still alive? If not then its probably too late. If the Johns and revelation were written in the 90s and I do not believe they were; what that proves is that an apostle was still alive so therefore those letters written by an apostle would be inspired. What is so hard about that? The apostles were promised that they would be “guided into all truth”. Was john inspired or not? I know you wont answer that. Now was the shepherd of Hermes inspired? Not a chance. And you know It.

Stop dodging and going beyond what is written!

Slap down a date FROM SCRIPTURE, which states when God ceases inspiring authors to write down His word.

 

[Walpole]

Do you think the early church needed a room full of false teaching old men to tell them what books they should listen to and which ones not? You think the saints that received the book of Hebrews has to wait until these false teaching old men said…Ok that’s one good! No wonder you are so confused.
Im not a protestant and martin Luther taught false doctrine. He took those books out because they contradicted his faith alone teaching. This proves nothing more than he didnt know what he was talking about.

Give me the reason why you think the book of Hebrews is inspired but the Shepherd of Hermas is not. Give me the verse from Scripture which states this, lest you are going BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN AND RELYING ON A ROOM FULL OF MEN TO MAKE THAT DECISION FOR YOU.

 

[Walpole]

Martin Luther saved Christianity! He rescued the faith from the Catholic denomination just like Moses rescued the Hebrews from Egypt.

This must explain why all Protestants are Lutherans...

 

[Walpole]

We are seeing in near real time how you cannot arrive at the "Scriptura" without violating the "sola." Hence a simple question, "How do you know Hebrews is inspired and the Shepherd of Hermas is not?" cannot be answered. Instead, all that can be put forth is a series of deflections and contradictions are served up in a word salad.

 

[Cnkw3]

We are seeing in near real time how you cannot arrive at the "Scriptura" without violating the "sola." Hence a simple question, "How do you know Hebrews is inspired and the Shepherd of Hermas is not?" cannot be answered. Instead, all that can be put forth is a series of deflections and contradictions are served up in a word salad.

I have answered the question. You don’t like the answer. Thats not on me. You cant prove that my answer is not correct. You just don’t like it. That is why for the last two days you are stuck on……give me a date, give me a date! It’s because you know there is no literal “date” in the Bible for any writing. don’t know why but i’ll continue. Was Hebrews written during a period of time in which the apostles and prophets like Luke and Barnabas were still alive? Yes. Was the shepherd written during that period? NO. Then there is no way the shepherd could be inspired. It was the apostles that could lay hands on people and give them a measure of the Spirit. When they and their close companions died then inspiration died with it. Those are facts. You don’t like them. Thats not on me that’s on you. I recommend dropping Catholicism. John was an apostle. I believe his writings, whenever they happened, are inspired. That to me is a fact too.

 

[jerry63935]

SPIRIT - This is having the right attitude, reverence for God, and awe to be able to praise the God of heaven. This deals with the emotion and feeling of worship.

if one is truly saved they have the Holy spirit and thus should have the right spiritual mind to do so

 

[Walpole]

I have answered the question. You don’t like the answer. Thats not on me. You cant prove that my answer is not correct. You just don’t like it. That is why for the last two days you are stuck on……give me a date, give me a date! It’s because you know there is no literal “date” in the Bible for any writing. don’t know why but i’ll continue. Was Hebrews written during a period of time in which the apostles and prophets like Luke and Barnabas were still alive? Yes. Was the shepherd written during that period? NO.

No, you haven't answered. You keep moving the goal post, deflecting and throwing out word salads.

As I demonstrated to you in a previous post, LOTS of things were written during the period of time in which the Apostles were alive. For example, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, etc. Yet you don't accept them.

Then there is no way the shepherd could be inspired. It was the apostles that could lay hands on people and give them a measure of the Spirit. When they and their close companions died then inspiration died with it. Those are facts. You don’t like them. Thats not on me that’s on you. I recommend dropping Catholicism. John was an apostle. I believe his writings, whenever they happened, are inspired. That to me is a fact too.

How do you know John wrote the Gospel attributed to him? Who told you that? "The Gospel According to John" is not in the text. That was added by...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...

SOME MEN IN A ROOM as you called it.

For someone who advocates not going against what is written, YOUR entire basis for canonicity is dependent upon going against what is written!

Now, slap down a date, FROM SCRIPTURE, which states the cutoff date for which the written word of God can be recorded. Once you do that, we'll move on to the elephant in the room which is the providing the verse which states all the canonical books that should comprise the New Testament.

Remember, do not go beyond what is written! I want the chapter and verse from Scripture ALONE!

 

[Cnkw3]

No, you haven't answered. You keep moving the goal post, deflecting and throwing out word salads.

As I demonstrated to you in a previous post, LOTS of things were written during the period of time in which the Apostles were alive. For example, the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache, etc. Yet you don't accept them.

How do you know John wrote the Gospel attributed to him? Who told you that? "The Gospel According to John" is not in the text. That was added by...wait for it...wait for it...wait for it...

SOME MEN IN A ROOM as you called it.

For someone who advocates not going against what is written, YOUR entire basis for canonicity is dependent upon going against what is written!

Now, slap down a date, FROM SCRIPTURE, which states the cutoff date for which the written word of God can be recorded. Once you do that, we'll move on to the elephant in the room which is the providing the verse which states all the canonical books that should comprise the New Testament.

Remember, do not go beyond what is written! I want the chapter and verse from Scripture ALONE!

Ok catholic. You win. The Bible is not inspired and John did not write his gospel even though we find this at the end…
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
John 21:24
And when you look a few verses earlier he describes himself as the “disciple that Jesus loved”. Thats right…this isnt John its Judas.
The Shepherd which was written around 140 is soooo inspired including the Didache which teaches sprinkling and pouring for baptism even though the word itself means “immersion”. Why is it the word wasn’t translated but it was transliterated? Could it be so those in1600 could hold on to their sprinkling and pouring? No, that could never happen.

 

[Walpole]

Ok catholic. You win. The Bible is not inspired and John did not write his gospel even though we find this at the end…
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
John 21:24
And when you look a few verses earlier he describes himself as the “disciple that Jesus loved”. Thats right…this isnt John its Judas.
The Shepherd which was written around 140 is soooo inspired including the Didache which teaches sprinkling and pouring for baptism even though the word itself means “immersion”. Why is it the word wasn’t translated but it was transliterated? Could it be so those in1600 could hold on to their sprinkling and pouring? No, that could never happen.

In a previous post (found here), you cited a source entitled "Apologetics Press" to support your dates for the various books which now comprise the New Testament. From YOUR SAME SOURCE, here is what it says about Hebrews and the Shepherd of Hermas..

"This leaves only Mark, Acts, James, Jude and possibly Hebrews unsupported by internal canonization. Mark and Acts were virtually undisputed in early Christian history, and Hebrews, James, and Jude gained acceptance over time; while other works that were previously accepted—such as the Didache and the Shepherd of Hermas—were removed from the canonical lists by the fourth century." (Your source, Apologetics Press)

Before we address your newest red herring (how the baptismal rite is administered), let's first get you to answer original questions...

---> How do you know Hebrews is inspired but the Shepherd is not?

---> Slap down a date, FROM SCRIPTURE, which states the cutoff date for which the written word of God can be recorded.

New Question ---> How do you know John wrote the Gospel attributed to him?


Remember to use your criteria and do not go beyond what is written! I want the chapter and verse from Scripture ALONE that answers these questions.

 

[for_his_glory]

Thoughts, views and opinions and being indoctrinated by what ever religious affiliation one chooses to follow always ends up in a heavy debate of "I am right and you are wrong" that will always cause division that brings out the worst in others that allow themselves to get caught up in the flesh and brings no glory to God, but saddens Him. Questions are asked, but answers are not accepted because they are not what one wants to hear. Roman Catholics, Mormons, JW, Protestants etc. etc.. all have different versions of the Bible they use, but only the Holy Spirit, not a Priest or Pastor, can teach us all truths.

Discussing the word of God has turned into a battle ground in here and for that I am locking this thread.