Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination ?

[smaller]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

First off, I enjoy and love reading and studying the scriptures and have been an avid studier and proponent of them for the better part of 3 decades. Initially what caused me to conclude that death is in fact it was the scriptures themselves that declare that man is wholly mortal and are totally reliant upon the gift of God through Jesus for life, age lasting (eternal). So according to the scriptures, especially the OT, it appears that when one dies they are totally and completely dead and not existing in any way, anywhere until God raises them up to life again.

Ah, the old 'soul sleep' theory then?

From a scriptural perspective, if Jesus never leaves us or forsakes us, this fact placing Him with us, that understanding also requires Jesus to take a nap with same. I've looked at this position and it doesn't compute for me for this reason, among other reasonings.

So you want be to precondition myself so that I arrive at the answer I should seek?

I don't control what others are led to believe. We all have our own subjective paths. Certainly can't hold yours against you. It's your life to live, to seek and to find life. I pump for nothing but love in the present tense.

The problem is that I have read those books and the others many times, and it is those very writings that initially convinced me that no afterlife exists! Man's hope according to scripture from The Apocalyse of Moses, to 1 Samuel, to Daniel 12, to Job, to the gospels that show us that even in the time of Jesus the sisters of Lazareth whom Jesus raised had been taught and always believed that a resurrection from the dead was the hope of man.

I certainly wouldn't say whatever 'after life' there is that we have any current conception of same NOR do I believe we will remember much if anything of our present lives.

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

The only reason anyone would believe that mankind somehow lives on in an afterlife beyond death apart from a resurrection is because other men and religious thinking have put that idea out there and for millennia have taught that it was true and correct.

Depends on what you want to focus on. The Bible does not address 'man alone.' There are also 'wicked/evil' spirits that are both written of and addressed in scripture. To read apart from those facts will produce a cloudy view if one does not perceive who is being addressed.

Scriptures DO however speak of life after death for MAN.

Adam for example was Gods son (Luke 3:38) and speaks of a LAST ADAM (1 Cor. 15) the first being natural and the last being at one with God. This certainly speaks to life after death. I could give many more, but this would be another example from the O.T.:

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

No evidence at all supports such a claim and all claims of an afterlife are based on the OPINIONS of men that do not stand on a fact-based foundation.

People largely reflect what is in them when they read the scriptures. Everyone has their own unique, and often darkened reflections:

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

If you reflect death, which you obviously do, then that is what is in you currently. You have my best wishes for better.

enjoy!

s

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Ah, the old 'soul sleep' theory then?

Not really because buying into such a theory would first require me to buy into various other unproven ideas like that of man has a living soul that is separate from himself and is able to exist apart from the body as well as the idea that the Bible is inerrant as well as indisputably, conclusively, and factually inspired by the creator and sustainer of the universe.

From a scriptural perspective, if Jesus never leaves us or forsakes us, this fact placing Him with us, that understanding also requires Jesus to take a nap with same. I've looked at this position and it doesn't compute for me for this reason, among other reasonings.

Isn't that specific statement found in Hebrews 13:5, and is it the Hebrew writer hearkening back to the words of Deuteronomy 31 used to encourage the Israelites as they readied themselves to go into the promised land without Moses to lead them as opposed to even being a reference to Jesus?
I think what you were trying to reference were the works of Jesus from Matthew 28:20 where he is quoted as saying: surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. And from a scriptural perspective, who is the audience that Jesus is addressing here and what is the significance of the AGE he was speaking of? Why assume an audience that Jesus was never actually and literally with into the "you" Jesus addressed here?

Scriptures DO however speak of life after death for MAN.

Adam for example was Gods son (Luke 3:38) and speaks of a LAST ADAM (1 Cor. 15) the first being natural and the last being at one with God. This certainly speaks to life after death. I could give many more, but this would be another example from the O.T.:

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


People largely reflect what is in them when they read the scriptures. Everyone has their own unique, and often darkened reflections:

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

If you reflect death, which you obviously do, then that is what is in you currently. You have my best wishes for better.

enjoy!

The Bible speaks not of a life after death, but rather living again after BOTH death and a resurrection to a new life. It does not consistantly speak of a life DURING death.
In Eccl 12, why do you seem to make the leap that the word spirit that is there translated is a reference to the soul of man that lives beyond death when the text does not even hint at or in any way indicate that? It's far more reasonable and scripturally consistant to relate the "spirit" mentioned in Eccl 12 with the "breath" of life God breathed into Adam at the beginning of Genesis because after all, spirit and breath can be interchanged as the come from the same word!
The passage in Hebrews 4 would carry the same meaning if if read: dividing asunder of soul and spirit or it cuts so fine that it can separate the breath from the breather. No need to equate spirit or soul with etherial entities that live on as us after we die.

 

[Webb]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Hi ToverT

I am a member of the church of Christ, a convert to the "faith." From some things you wrote in the past I have thought you had some association with the church.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Hi ToverT

I am a member of the church of Christ, a convert to the "faith." From some things you wrote in the past I have thought you had some association with the church.

Some association is an understatement! I probably still have volumes of pages of sermon notes I had prepared in the event that I'd be asked to speak at a small local congregation that either didn't have a local preacher or had one out of town in a gospel meeting. I was in there deep as I converted as a teenager from my previous Baptist faith. I absolutely loved my experience with the "brethren" as that experience molded me into a person that searched the scriptures more diligently and helped me to value truth above tradition. I was on my way to hopefully becoming an elder and would serve the congregation in any and everyway possible with the exceptin of leading songs because that would have been the opposit of encouraging to the brethren. :D

What drew me away from the CoC was the absolutist mindset that was so prevailent within the faith. It bothered me that the church could see how it was as much of a denomination as the other denomination we so often lumped together with the lost. I was stunned to find out that other faiths taught the plan of salvation just I we did, but that we still didn't reckognize them as brothers, despite the fact that many Adventists, Apostolics, Church of God members, and even SOME Baptists had heard, believed, confessed, repented, had been emerged for the remission of their sins, and were trying to live faithfully to the Lord afterwards.
In addition, way too much emphasis was placed on the name and functions, excuse me, the "work" of the local church and what it was authorized to do considering that the Bible say little to nothing about that subject. Then of course there is the issue of worship and what is authorized (singing, the Lord's Supper, etc.) and what is not (instruments, female song leaders, Sunday school, etc.). I found that it was a very divisive sect that was uncompromising in regards to its traditions whether or not they had Biblical support so I disconnected myself from the church.

I disconnected from the organization initially without disconnecting with the scriptures and the behavior, love, and gospel message it promotes and then challenged the elders on the subject of disfellowshiping. (disfellowshiping is big in more conservative CoC congregations, but virtually unheard of in more liberal circles). Initially my "departure from the rule of the elders" was discussed as a reason to have them withdraw fellowship from me meaning of course that my own family members were to no longer even share meals with me as they should treat me as an unbelieving infidel while exhorting me as a brother in hopes that I would return to the fold before it was "everlasting too late!"
When confronted with that scenario I asked them on what grounds would they (being the elders) make that decision as I was not caught up in sin or any type of unrighteousness as was the case in Corinthians and 2nd Thessalonians 3. I simply and earnestly believed that they were misusing and misapplying scriptures making burdens for believers that God didn't mandate is scripture much like the pharissees Jesus scolded. Believe it or not my fellowship was never withdrawn and to this day I am still on the perverbial roll! (I just won't be asked to serve on the table at the Lord's Supper, lead prayer, preach, teach Bible class, lead a personal work group, etc.).

 

[smaller]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Not really because buying into such a theory would first require me to buy into various other unproven ideas like that of man has a living soul that is separate from himself and is able to exist apart from the body as well as the idea that the Bible is inerrant as well as indisputably, conclusively, and factually inspired by the creator and sustainer of the universe.

Gods Word is certainly inerrant. That does not mean there are not statements in the text that are not Gods Direct Words, and therefore accurate quotes but not Gods Words. I would consider that more than a bit of distinction.

As to slicing and dicing the whole soul/spirit thing, pass on that from me. IF there is spirit from God in the dust, it will return to God as The Word says.

Isn't that specific statement found in Hebrews 13:5, and is it the Hebrew writer hearkening back to the words of Deuteronomy 31 used to encourage the Israelites as they readied themselves to go into the promised land without Moses to lead them as opposed to even being a reference to Jesus?

All statements of the Prophets where they speak 'thus says God' are the Words of God in Christ speaking through those Prophets. All of Gods Words are directed to 'all mankind.' (scriptures available upon request.)

The 'red letter Bible' exemplifies Gods Words as opposed to quotes from men/women that are not and are thus to be viewed/weighted as less authoritative.

I think what you were trying to reference were the works of Jesus from Matthew 28:20 where he is quoted as saying: surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. And from a scriptural perspective, who is the audience that Jesus is addressing here and what is the significance of the AGE he was speaking of? Why assume an audience that Jesus was never actually and literally with into the "you" Jesus addressed here?

As stated prior ALL of Gods Words inclusive of those of Christ are directed to 'all mankind,' not just particular segmented audiences.

The Bible speaks not of a life after death, but rather living again after BOTH death and a resurrection to a new life. It does not consistantly speak of a life DURING death.

Both life and death are intimately addressed therein, temporal and eternal on both counts.

In Eccl 12, why do you seem to make the leap that the word spirit that is there translated is a reference to the soul of man that lives beyond death when the text does not even hint at or in any way indicate that?

Already stated. Adam was Gods son. (Luke 3:38)

That requires Gods Spirit to be 'in Adam' to be His son.

Soul discussions are another matter and I usually pass because many have poor understandings of that entire arena. Not productive apart from the handlers/discussions having a fairly deep grasp of text.

It's far more reasonable and scripturally consistant to relate the "spirit" mentioned in Eccl 12 with the "breath" of life God breathed into Adam at the beginning of Genesis because after all, spirit and breath can be interchanged as the come from the same word!
The passage in Hebrews 4 would carry the same meaning if if read: dividing asunder of soul and spirit or it cuts so fine that it can separate the breath from the breather. No need to equate spirit or soul with etherial entities that live on as us after we die.

As stated, in order for Adam to be Gods son requires Gods Spirit therein.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Gods Word is certainly inerrant. That does not mean there are not statements in the text that are not Gods Direct Words, and therefore accurate quotes but not Gods Words. I would consider that more than a bit of distinction.

As to slicing and dicing the whole soul/spirit thing, pass on that from me. IF there is spirit from God in the dust, it will return to God as The Word says.
All statements of the Prophets where they speak 'thus says God' are the Words of God in Christ speaking through those Prophets. All of Gods Words are directed to 'all mankind.' (scriptures available upon request.)

The 'red letter Bible' exemplifies Gods Words as opposed to quotes from men/women that are not and are thus to be viewed/weighted as less authoritative.
As stated prior ALL of Gods Words inclusive of those of Christ are directed to 'all mankind,' not just particular segmented audiences.
Both life and death are intimately addressed therein, temporal and eternal on both counts.
Already stated. Adam was Gods son. (Luke 3:38)

That requires Gods Spirit to be 'in Adam' to be His son.

Soul discussions are another matter and I usually pass because many have poor understandings of that entire arena. Not productive apart from the handlers/discussions having a fairly deep grasp of text.

As stated, in order for Adam to be Gods son requires Gods Spirit therein.

enjoy!

smaller

Smaller my friend, it seems that you are in the habit of making declarations of your beliefs and putting them out as if they are givens and factual truths. You for example say that "in order for Adam to be Gods son requires Gods Spirit therein", without providing any evidence that such a conclusion is correct and all alternative conclusions are false. Someone could just as easily say that Adam is God's son because God created Adam thus making Adam God's offspring. No mention of a spirit or soul is needed to draw such a conclusion.

As far as the inerrancy of God's Word, I will say that IF it could be determined beyond a shadow of a doubt what exactly those words are, then you'd have a point, but because verifying whether or not something was inspired by the creator God is impossible, then we have no way on KNOWING what they words of God are nor do we even know if God has ever given such a word. Why does person A's belief about that is God's word take presidence over a different and equally unveriable belief that person B has?

You say all prophetic "thus saith the Lord" passages are the words of God, but how do you know? How do you know that the writers didn't insert their opinions and beliefs, and biased onto the page as they wrote the "thus saith the Lord" texts?

 

[smaller]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Smaller my friend, it seems that you are in the habit of making declarations of your beliefs and putting them out as if they are givens and factual truths. You for example say that "in order for Adam to be Gods son requires Gods Spirit therein", without providing any evidence that such a conclusion is correct and all alternative conclusions are false.

Got a better alternative? All of Israel were taught to be Gods children.

The fact of Gods DWELLING in man is quite well established. But if one can't see it, whatever is there won't matter. Such things remain intentionally blocked out from many.

1 John 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

Make of it what you want. Want more?

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Want more?

1 John 4:7
Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Now, what any particular individual can make of these words will obviously vary according the light (or not) that they have been given from God. Can't help you there at all. I share what I see from what I've received. And often the simplicity of the information is lost. There are scriptural reasons for that as well.

Someone could just as easily say that Adam is God's son because God created Adam thus making Adam God's offspring. No mention of a spirit or soul is needed to draw such a conclusion.

See it however you want. Not my reflection.

As far as the inerrancy of God's Word, I will say that IF it could be determined beyond a shadow of a doubt what exactly those words are, then you'd have a point, but because verifying whether or not something was inspired by the creator God is impossible, then we have no way on KNOWING what they words of God are nor do we even know if God has ever given such a word.

In the O.T. if a prophet spoke and it didn't come to pass they were to be stoned. Tended to keep out the riff raff.

Why does person A's belief about that is God's word take presidence over a different and equally unveriable belief that person B has?

Christianity is, if nothing else, a wide diversity of subjective reflections.

I personally enjoy my own contemplations rather than being spoon fed by a less than perfect reflection from some other person that I may not see similar to. I believe scripture also gives the room for this to be.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

So for me I could care less if I eat pork or not consider Saturday or Sunday being lesser or greater days. I'm fully persuaded that it doesn't matter to 'me.'

You say all prophetic "thus saith the Lord" passages are the words of God, but how do you know? How do you know that the writers didn't insert their opinions and beliefs, and biased onto the page as they wrote the "thus saith the Lord" texts?

I take it to be a fact that God dealt with the people of Israel eventually culminating in the birth of Jesus Christ, The Lamb of God.

Others may pick up the book and not make heads or tails of it.

One has to be drawn in by God in order to be compelled by His Written Word. Otherwise it will seem meaningless drivel to same.

My own experience was a few attempts to read over the course of my young life just to see what was in there but didn't get a thing.

Then one day I happened to pick up a Bible in the waiting room of a hospital and was able to read and understand the first 3 Gospels. I felt compassion for what Jesus went through. A couple days later I was reading the book of John and when I was done, I felt the love of God in my heart just as real as real could be. That's my testimony. I can't help it. I 'felt' Gods Love 'in me' and can't deny the experience.

Not everyone has a like experience, but if you've ever deeply loved anyone it's a similar experience.

That would be 'God' in you. And that is really the only thing about the text that really matters to me anyway.

s

 

[Webb]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Hi ToverT

I came out of the maze of denominationalism and consider them satan's counterfeits. It took 10 years of hard study and stints with several denominations, the last hurtle being that of music. As I take the "good book" I am absoluteliy certain of the church. I know my brethren have their faults, as do I, but nothing in the field of religion comes near to the church of my Lord. I have never been an elder, nor have I desired it. The desire to be such is the first requirement according to brother Paul to Timothy. Too many, I fear, have desired to be but failed in other requirements, thus causing many of our faults. I do at times fill the pullpit when the preacher is gone, but we have many in our congregation who do also so my opportunity is not often, the same wih teaching public classes. God has blessed me with the privilege of holding many home bible studies however, and the labor has been blessed through the years. I am now in my 80's, eyes dim (as you may tell from my typing ) and ears getting harder to hear. Now I'm wondering how long I can stay on my horse without falling off.

Evidently your contacts with denominations has been wider than mine. I have not heard for example of many who teach baptism for the remission of sins as does the Bible. I assume from what you wrote you continue to attend the church. Perhaps I (not I but Him through me and His word ) can help. I feel your cry and want you to know you are now a part of my prayer life. I do believe the opposite of you, there is that part of man that does not die at physical death. I could write much more about myself and how I finally at last found myself in the Lord's church but I've already said more than I intended. God bless!

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

I fear to my "utmost" that you error, my dear friend and fellow poster...

Your upmost? That isn't enough to convince anyone else...

The idea of two baptisms in the history of Christianity was unheard of until invent about a century ago... You are proposing an innovation, rather than declaring Biblical Christianity. When one is baptized in water and by the NAME of the Trinity, the Spirit comes. It is the baptism that exceeds what John the Baptist said when comparing to his own... Thus, the need for water in Scriptures when baptizing. If it was all about a subjective "invisible" baptism, you really have no clue if you WERE INDEED baptized. Any subsequent sin would place your 'baptism' in doubt, wouldn't it?

Regards

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Your upmost? That isn't enough to convince anyone else...

The idea of two baptisms in the history of Christianity was unheard of until invent about a century ago... You are proposing an innovation, rather than declaring Biblical Christianity. When one is baptized in water and by the NAME of the Trinity, the Spirit comes. It is the baptism that exceeds what John the Baptist said when comparing to his own... Thus, the need for water in Scriptures when baptizing. If it was all about a subjective "invisible" baptism, you really have no clue if you WERE INDEED baptized. Any subsequent sin would place your 'baptism' in doubt, wouldn't it?

Regards

Once again you slip into the rather "eroded" area of mistaken interpretation...

 

[Webb]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Explain how so, with scripture proof, of course.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Hi ToverT

I came out of the maze of denominationalism and consider them satan's counterfeits. It took 10 years of hard study and stints with several denominations, the last hurtle being that of music. As I take the "good book" I am absoluteliy certain of the church. I know my brethren have their faults, as do I, but nothing in the field of religion comes near to the church of my Lord. I have never been an elder, nor have I desired it. The desire to be such is the first requirement according to brother Paul to Timothy. Too many, I fear, have desired to be but failed in other requirements, thus causing many of our faults. I do at times fill the pullpit when the preacher is gone, but we have many in our congregation who do also so my opportunity is not often, the same wih teaching public classes. God has blessed me with the privilege of holding many home bible studies however, and the labor has been blessed through the years. I am now in my 80's, eyes dim (as you may tell from my typing ) and ears getting harder to hear. Now I'm wondering how long I can stay on my horse without falling off.

Evidently your contacts with denominations has been wider than mine. I have not heard for example of many who teach baptism for the remission of sins as does the Bible. I assume from what you wrote you continue to attend the church. Perhaps I (not I but Him through me and His word ) can help. I feel your cry and want you to know you are now a part of my prayer life. I do believe the opposite of you, there is that part of man that does not die at physical death. I could write much more about myself and how I finally at last found myself in the Lord's church but I've already said more than I intended. God bless!

I love the brotherhood, but have come to despise the corporate institution I now believe mascerades as the Lord's Bride and body. The level of Biblical literacy of average members of the CoC vs. average members of most other denominations is is a lot to a little bit most often, however, within "the faith" I have found that Biblical literacy is often a tract-based, CoC talking point kind of faux literacy the is not as Biblically contextually honest as it represents itself. So for me, the faults of the brethren was far less problematic than the faults and lack of humility of the organization. I find it ironic that our brothers and sisters fail to see the forest for the trees and don't realize that the CoC is just as much of a denomination as other Christian faiths.

For instance we worship on a set day, though the Bible never mandates or infers that such should be the case. We have the whole "5 acts of worship" weekly rutine that is not spelled out in scripture, yet mandated by us. We call Sunday the Lord's Day, though the Bible never does. We have even developed a quisi-pergatory doctrine based off of a parable in Luke 16 that has no solid Biblical foundation. In addition we require a collection exclusively on the 1st day of the week and teach that such a thing is mandated as a continual act of worship by 1 Cor. 16:1-2, when in fact the text does no such thing. We preach that the Lord's Supper MUST be taken every Sunday and that the Bible teaches as much, when in fact it does not. I could go on, but the point I am trying to make is that our CoC denomination has its fault from a doctrinal perspective just as other denominations do and our claims of being Christ ONLY church is on the same level as the claim made by Roman Catholics.

 

[Webb]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Fortunately for me it seems to me from what you write, I have been in better congregations and meeting with more humble brethren than has been your opportunity and experience. I do not regret for a moment the blessed privilege of being among those "of like precious faith." I want to be as broad as the Bible and not a bit wider, as narrow as the scripture and not a wit narrower. I find that in many congregations I have visited and worshipped with. I do agree with you about the contribution. Seems to me, at least, that the contribution of I Cor.16:1,2 was for the needy only. I suspect my 1st century brethren had contributions only as needs arose.

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

Explain how so, with scripture proof, of course.

Sorry, Webb, that's not how he works...

He believes that his word is enough proof.

Regards

 

[Eventide]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

One thing I'm certain of.. and it's the fact that I was baptized as an infant in the RCC, and that absolutely did not result in me being born again by the power of the Holy Spirit of God.

I was born again long afterwards (in my 20's) after hearing the gospel message many times and after I trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for the forgiveness of my sins through His precious shed blood. THAT is when He baptized me into His one body by the power of the Spirit of God.

Paul says it's the same for all members of the body of Christ.. that it was after we trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel of our salvation, and after we believed, that God sealed us with the Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance in Him, unto the praise of His glory.

 

[kjb1769]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

One thing I'm certain of.. and it's the fact that I was baptized as an infant in the RCC, and that absolutely did not result in me being born again by the power of the Holy Spirit of God.

I was born again long afterwards (in my 20's) after hearing the gospel message many times and after I trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for the forgiveness of my sins through His precious shed blood. THAT is when He baptized me into His one body by the power of the Spirit of God.

Paul says it's the same for all members of the body of Christ.. that it was after we trusted in Christ, after hearing the gospel of our salvation, and after we believed, that God sealed us with the Holy Spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance in Him, unto the praise of His glory.

Amen to that!

 

[reba]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

 

[smaller]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Piling ON!

Colossians 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power

Rituals 'needed?' sure...lol

 

[francisdesales]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

One thing I'm certain of.. and it's the fact that I was baptized as an infant in the RCC, and that absolutely did not result in me being born again by the power of the Holy Spirit of God.

Are you saying that it is impossible to conceive that God planted a seed within you that would germinate only 20 years plus later in your life???

And what is "born again"? Is that something WE do, or God??? Is our spiritual birth dependent upon our own accumulation of "knowledge", that after a certain point, the scale is tipped and we bring ourselves into "spiritual existence"?

I wonder if you are being too quick to take credit for your own birth. I think we cannot rule out the possibility that God did indeed bring us into birth long ago and that we MATURED much later... Let's be clear about the difference between "birth" and "maturity".

Regards

 

[reba]

Re: Are you confident that, what you believe will guarantee your eternal destination

I think we cannot rule out the possibility that God did indeed bring us into birth long ago and that we MATURED much later..

We did? :toofunny