Arminian vs Reformed

[Scotth1960]

Augustine didn't have the "bad day", brother, Calvin is the one with the problem, taking bits and pieces of Augustine and ignoring the parts he didn't like.

And the idea behind Filioque is expressed before Augustine by Eastern Fathers. The problem is that the Byzantines didn't like Rome laying their ancient claims upon Bulgaria. After that, just looking for excuses...

Dear francisdesales, The idea behind Filioque is not expressed by the NT. Even Augustine had to submit his judgment to the NT. When he speculated about Filioque, he was doing that, he was speculating. He was not laying down dogma is his work "De Trinitate". Sometimes, he would define things in dogmatic terms, but he would be careful to point out when he was just thinking out loud. Much of what Augustine did at time was influence by Platonic philosophy, not by the plain text of the NT. Hans Kung (who you should not malign as being wrong in this, he is an honest man) has the honesty to tell it like it is in his book, The Catholic Church: A Brief History. He says Catholics read the matter of pneumatology not so much in the light of the NT as in the light of Augustine of Hippo. They have Augustine as their teacher and their authority, not Jesus Christ and St. John in St. John 15:26. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington PS Some of the popes of Rome were murders: there is no excuse for that, and anyone who wants to follow papal infallibility needs to remember how some popes were not infallible teachers but rather killers.

 

[Eventide]

Both of these questions are not as difficult as you have stated.

Then why don't they get answered ? Perhaps you'd like to answer them ?

What are some of the responses you've received from Calvanist?

I haven't received an answer from any Calvinist.. a lot of mockery but no answers.

 

[francisdesales]

Dear francisdesales, The idea behind Filioque is not expressed by the NT. Even Augustine had to submit his judgment to the NT. When he speculated about Filioque, he was doing that, he was speculating. He was not laying down dogma is his work "De Trinitate". Sometimes, he would define things in dogmatic terms, but he would be careful to point out when he was just thinking out loud. Much of what Augustine did at time was influence by Platonic philosophy, not by the plain text of the NT.

Really, Scott, does this have anything to do with the topic? Why must you feel it necessary to troll?

 

[Scotth1960]

Really, Scott, does this have anything to do with the topic? Why must you feel it necessary to troll?

Dear francisdesales, Calvinism comes from relying in an unorthodox way on Augustine of Hippo. But Augustine did not claim infallibility for himself. I believe I have stated what needs to be said. Augustine at one point in his life at least believed in the existence of free will. Some Calvinists do not believe in the existence of free will. Some do, apparently, according to the WCF (Westminster Confession of Faith). But I am not certain that the Arminian teaching is more correct than the Reformed. I don't think James Arminius is beyond criticism. Neither is Calvin. Or me, or any of us. We need to be corrected by Scripture, whenever someone has the true meaning of that for us. In Erie PA Scott H.

 

[mondar]

Then why don't they get answered ? Perhaps you'd like to answer them ?



I haven't received an answer from any Calvinist.. a lot of mockery but no answers.

eventide, please don't use this thread to take your cheap shots at those you disagree with. I would be surprised if you ever read even your first Calvinist book to look for answers to any of your questions. You are probably ignorant of what either the older Calvinists taught, or what current Calvinist scholars are teaching.

I have seen plenty of low life conversations like you want to engage in. You will probably quote some anecdotal Calvinist that is the low hanging fruit, and totally ignore what mainstream Calvinists actually teach. There are plenty of other Calvinist vs Arminian threads. This thread has to do with the OP that I wrote and put a link in it. My guess is you never even listened to the link I posted. If you did not listen to the link, at least part of the link, then you should not be commenting here.

If you want to debate Calvinism, LOL, well I am your daisy, but not here please. How about a different thread.

 

[Scotth1960]

eventide, please don't use this thread to take your cheap shots at those you disagree with. I would be surprised if you ever read even your first Calvinist book to look for answers to any of your questions. You are probably ignorant of what either the older Calvinists taught, or what current Calvinist scholars are teaching.

I have seen plenty of low life conversations like you want to engage in. You will probably quote some anecdotal Calvinist that is the low hanging fruit, and totally ignore what mainstream Calvinists actually teach. There are plenty of other Calvinist vs Arminian threads. This thread has to do with the OP that I wrote and put a link in it. My guess is you never even listened to the link I posted. If you did not listen to the link, at least part of the link, then you should not be commenting here.

If you want to debate Calvinism, LOL, well I am your daisy, but not here please. How about a different thread.

Dear Mondar, No, Calvinism is no laughing matter. People died because of John Calvin's Calvinism. Gladly, not every Calvinist follows the example and practice of John Calvin himself. Calvin had Servetus burned at the stake. Christians today are not doing things like that, thank God. But we should remember that it is not worth getting violent over points of theology. God alone is judge. Violence is unchristian. And war is never a good thing. In Erie PA Scott H.
:nod

 

[Hitch]

Dear Mondar, No, Calvinism is no laughing matter. People died because of John Calvin's Calvinism. Gladly, not every Calvinist follows the example and practice of John Calvin himself. Calvin had Servetus burned at the stake. Christians today are not doing things like that, thank God. But we should remember that it is not worth getting violent over points of theology. God alone is judge. Violence is unchristian. And war is never a good thing. In Erie PA Scott H.
:nod

You bring up Sevetus at evet chance Scott ,how about a detailed history so we call all decide the matter?

 

[Scotth1960]

You bring up Sevetus at evet chance Scott ,how about a detailed history so we call all decide the matter?

Dear Hitch, Here is a link regarding John Calvin and Michael Servetus

MURDERER John Calvin Burned Michael Servetus At The Stake



God bless you. In Erie Scott H.
:nod

 

[Hitch]

Dear Hitch, Here is a link regarding John Calvin and Michael Servetus

MURDERER John Calvin Burned Michael Servetus At The Stake



God bless you. In Erie Scott H.
:nod

I said history Scott, that implies some objectivity.

 

[Scotth1960]

I said history Scott, that implies some objectivity.

Dear Hitch, Is killing heretics objectively wrong or not? It is quite simple, as simple as that. No, Calvin is not the only wrong one. Servetus did preach heresy. But so did Calvin. We all are subject to error. Someone comes along and corrects us, and shows us our sin and/or or doctrinal errors (heresies). In Erie Scott H.

 

[Hitch]

Dear Hitch, Is killing heretics objectively wrong or not? It is quite simple, as simple as that. No, Calvin is not the only wrong one. Servetus did preach heresy. But so did Calvin. We all are subject to error. Someone comes along and corrects us, and shows us our sin and/or or doctrinal errors (heresies). In Erie Scott H.

If he was condemned by the council by due process of their laws it is ridiculous to blame one man and defame him a murderer.

So its not so simple , no matter how much you would like it to be.

 

[Scotth1960]

If he was condemned by the council by due process of their laws it is ridiculous to blame one man and defame him a murderer.

So its not so simple , no matter how much you would like it to be.

Dear Hitch. Your'e being illogical. It is quite simple. Christ founded His Church on the faith confession OF FAITH IN CHRIST by St. Peter (Matt. 16:18). Where did St. Peter form a council to burn people at the stake. Since Christ's Church cannot change, any thing that does this cannot be Christ's Church. Calvin is thus found not to be preaching the same Faith that St. Peter preached. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[Hitch]

Dear Hitch. Your'e being illogical. It is quite simple. Christ founded His Church on the faith confession OF FAITH IN CHRIST by St. Peter (Matt. 16:18). Where did St. Peter form a council to burn people at the stake. Since Christ's Church cannot change, any thing that does this cannot be Christ's Church. Calvin is thus found not to be preaching the same Faith that St. Peter preached. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

Since you have confessed to never reading Calvin LOBO ,,,

 

[Scotth1960]

Since you have confessed to never reading Calvin LOBO ,,,

No. I read SOME of Calvin, not all of him. Why should any Christian have to read the Reformers? They all preached FILIOQUE, and John 15:26 proves their view of the Trinity to be SEMI-SABELLIANISM. As through the real logic of Photios in "The Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit". This book by a Greek Church Father defends our LORD GOD and Saviour JESUS CHRIST in JOHN 15:26. See: Farrell, Joseph P. trans. (1987). SAINT PHOTIOS. THE MYSTAGOGY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Orthodox Press. We should be reading Photios, not Calvin. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

 

[reba]

2Sa 11:14 And it came to pass in the morning, that David wrote a letter to Joab, and sent it by the hand of Uriah.
2Sa 11:15 And he wrote in the letter, saying, Set ye Uriah in the forefront of the hottest battle, and retire ye from him, that he may be smitten, and die.
2Sa 11:16 And it came to pass, when Joab observed the city, that he assigned Uriah unto a place where he knew that valiant men were.
2Sa 11:17 And the men of the city went out, and fought with Joab: and there fell some of the people of the servants of David; and Uriah the Hittite died also.


Act 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. ​

 

[jasoncran]

No. I read SOME of Calvin, not all of him. Why should any Christian have to read the Reformers? They all preached FILIOQUE, and John 15:26 proves their view of the Trinity to be SEMI-SABELLIANISM. As through the real logic of Photios in "The Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit". This book by a Greek Church Father defends our LORD GOD and Saviour JESUS CHRIST in JOHN 15:26. See: Farrell, Joseph P. trans. (1987). SAINT PHOTIOS. THE MYSTAGOGY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Orthodox Press. We should be reading Photios, not Calvin. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

to know there arguments. sheesh this is like creationist that doesnt bother to read the toe and states ignorantly why its wrong.
i intend to learn more on the toe and also my creationist argument must be improved.

and i intend to read more on calvin. is one condemned to hell for being a calvinist in your eyes?

 

[Scotth1960]

to know there arguments. sheesh this is like creationist that doesnt bother to read the toe and states ignorantly why its wrong.
i intend to learn more on the toe and also my creationist argument must be improved.

and i intend to read more on calvin. is one condemned to hell for being a calvinist in your eyes?

Dear jasoncran, Only God can say who is saved. As for predestination to hell, that is something Calvinists have not found a word from God. God will say who is lost, if anyone is. A person could be saved by Christ any way Christ chooses to save him, even with a defective theology which Calvinism clearly is. I gather not all Calvinists are as rude as the one who wrote to me that I personally am "predestined to hell". It wasn't me using language about hell regarding anyone else, or regarding a Calvinist. It was one self-professed Calvinist who wrote the personal attack against me, when I pointed out that the Westminster Confession of Faith is semi-Sabellian, he changed the subject and refused to discuss it as "unimportant", and accused me of being a "semi-Pelagian". He said it does not matter whether the Spirit proceeds from the Father alone or from both the Father and the Son. Christ disagrees in John 15:26. Everything Christ says matters. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[reba]

Dear jasoncran, Only God can say who is saved. As for predestination to hell, that is something Calvinists have not found a word from God. God will say who is lost, if anyone is. A person could be saved by Christ any way Christ chooses to save him, even with a defective theology which Calvinism clearly is. I gather not all Calvinists are as rude as the one who wrote to me that I personally am "predestined to hell". It wasn't me using language about hell regarding anyone else, or regarding a Calvinist. It was one self-professed Calvinist who wrote the personal attack against me, when I pointed out that the Westminster Confession of Faith is semi-Sabellian, he changed the subject and refused to discuss it as "unimportant", and accused me of being a "semi-Pelagian". He said it does not matter whether the Spirit proceeds from the Father alone or from both the Father and the Son. Christ disagrees in John 15:26. Everything Christ says matters. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

This then would aply to John Calvin Correct?

 

[jasoncran]

Dear jasoncran, Only God can say who is saved. As for predestination to hell, that is something Calvinists have not found a word from God. God will say who is lost, if anyone is. A person could be saved by Christ any way Christ chooses to save him, even with a defective theology which Calvinism clearly is. I gather not all Calvinists are as rude as the one who wrote to me that I personally am "predestined to hell". It wasn't me using language about hell regarding anyone else, or regarding a Calvinist. It was one self-professed Calvinist who wrote the personal attack against me, when I pointed out that the Westminster Confession of Faith is semi-Sabellian, he changed the subject and refused to discuss it as "unimportant", and accused me of being a "semi-Pelagian". He said it does not matter whether the Spirit proceeds from the Father alone or from both the Father and the Son. Christ disagrees in John 15:26. Everything Christ says matters. In Erie PA Scott Harrington

having made the same mistake and realising that i am not a theologian on the par totally refute calvin.its best to try to learn the calvinist argument and read for yourself why it is wrong and be objective and ask God what is true and let him lead you to where it is.

if you find calvin is correct then what have you lost?

your soul isnt going to hell over him.
besides most of the founders of this nation were most likely calvinists.
you argued that by supporting the current govt we then also should support the idea of revolution

the majority of the original 13 colonies were calvinist.

 

[Hitch]

No. I read SOME of Calvin, not all of him. Why should any Christian have to read the Reformers? They all preached FILIOQUE, and John 15:26 proves their view of the Trinity to be SEMI-SABELLIANISM. As through the real logic of Photios in "The Mystagogy of the Holy Spirit". This book by a Greek Church Father defends our LORD GOD and Saviour JESUS CHRIST in JOHN 15:26. See: Farrell, Joseph P. trans. (1987). SAINT PHOTIOS. THE MYSTAGOGY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Orthodox Press. We should be reading Photios, not Calvin. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

To give credence to your complaints if nothing else.

Parroting what youve heard or read is not a problem provided is it presented as what it is.