As it Was In The Days Of Noah...

[reba]

Angles are messengers How many times have i heard that ... odd how the thought of sex changes things.

 

[Chopper]

Angles are messengers How many times have i heard that ... odd how the thought of sex changes things.

Crazy isn't it!. That theory must have been established in the Springtime when a young man's fancy turns to love, ssshhh (sex).

 

[chessman]

But you do see angels "knowing" other men. so at least in these verses we have to admit that the act can be done. If they would do it with men, why not women? It is still strange flesh for an angel.

Actually, no I'm not 100% convienced of that implication with respect to the Jude passage at all. That is, that it really does mean sex between Angels and humans in the first place (men or women). It MIGHT mean that. It might not even have anything to do with sex (although Sodom certainly did, so maybe).

But my point was toward someone that would already be inclinded to think that's what it meant. My point was that even if one did think what was "unnatural" for the Angels was their "sex" with humans (using an overly stringent parrallism within the example/analogy Jude gives) then the text itself DOES NOT say there's any offspring as a result of the unnatural sex acts going on between Agnels and humans.

Why, becasuse even if it was something sexual between the Angels and humans, Sodom's unnatural acts DID NOT result in offspring. In fact, quite the opposite effect. That's just the way I like to study Scripture (Theology). I'm afraid I don't do a lot of speculating about things that the text does NOT say. Or at least I like to think I don't. But that's just me. It's not for everybody, I suppose.

Someone said Jude taught 1/2 breeds. That's all I was addressing. I don't really know a lot about it other than Jude DOES NOT teach 1/2 breeds.

 

[JCitoL]

Angelic beings [sons of God] interbred with human women [daughters of men] which resulted in a species of giants known as nephilim.

The marriage and breeding of humans does not result in the offspring of nephilim giants.


JLB

it comes to spiritual exercise and teaching, as it was mentioned above/before, there were many humans who became great yogis just by yoga/tm practising, so many of them became gurus i.e. false spiritual teachers and avatars i.e. angels of satan by resurrection in the "darkness" which is culmination in yoga(John 5:29, Rev 13:3), and they taught many others to practise occultism and idolatry, so the world was filled with many brahmins, yogis. gurus, avatars, occultists, idolaters, sages, diviners, astrologers, etc., and all this began when there appeared many earthly clerics who departed from the true Lord God towards the occultism and idolatry - yoga is a method of travel and operation in the occult/astral/transcendental such as the astral projection

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son(i.e. that makes a male) or his daughter(i.e. or a female) to pass through the fire(i.e. through occultism/occult power), or that useth divination(i.e. clairvoyance/second sight), or an observer of times(i.e. or an occult metaphysician/astrologer/traveler in the occult), or an enchanter(i.e. or a false-prophesying), or a witch(i.e. or an occultist/witchcraft-practising). Or a charmer(i.e. or an exercising spiritual fascination), or a consulter with familiar spirits(i.e. or an interacting by/interrogator of unclean/foul spirits), or a wizard(i.e. or an esotericist), or a necromancer(i.e. or a spiritually interacting/intercommunicating with dead). For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee."

Blessings

 

[JLB]

it comes to spiritual exercise and teaching, as it was mentioned above/before, there were many humans who became great yogis just by yoga/tm practising, so many of them became gurus i.e. false spiritual teachers and avatars i.e. angels of satan by resurrection in the "darkness" which is culmination in yoga(John 5:29, Rev 13:3), and they taught many others to practise occultism and idolatry, so the world was filled with many brahmins, yogis. gurus, avatars, occultists, idolaters, sages, diviners, astrologers, etc., and all this began when there appeared many earthly clerics who departed from the true Lord God towards the occultism and idolatry - yoga is a method of travel and operation in the occult/astral/transcendental such as the astral projection

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son(i.e. that makes a male) or his daughter(i.e. or a female) to pass through the fire(i.e. through occultism/occult power), or that useth divination(i.e. clairvoyance/second sight), or an observer of times(i.e. or an occult metaphysician/astrologer/traveler in the occult), or an enchanter(i.e. or a false-prophesying), or a witch(i.e. or an occultist/witchcraft-practising). Or a charmer(i.e. or an exercising spiritual fascination), or a consulter with familiar spirits(i.e. or an interacting by/interrogator of unclean/foul spirits), or a wizard(i.e. or an esotericist), or a necromancer(i.e. or a spiritually interacting/intercommunicating with dead). For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee."

Blessings

Has nothing to do with the phrase "sons of God" which a clear reference to angels.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Actually, no I'm not 100% convienced of that implication with respect to the Jude passage at all. That is, that it really does mean sex between Angels and humans in the first place (men or women). It MIGHT mean that. It might not even have anything to do with sex (although Sodom certainly did, so maybe).

But my point was toward someone that would already be inclinded to think that's what it meant. My point was that even if one did think what was "unnatural" for the Angels was their "sex" with humans (using an overly stringent parrallism within the example/analogy Jude gives) then the text itself DOES NOT say there's any offspring as a result of the unnatural sex acts going on between Agnels and humans.

Why, becasuse even if it was something sexual between the Angels and humans, Sodom's unnatural acts DID NOT result in offspring. In fact, quite the opposite effect. That's just the way I like to study Scripture (Theology). I'm afraid I don't do a lot of speculating about things that the text does NOT say. Or at least I like to think I don't. But that's just me. It's not for everybody, I suppose.

Someone said Jude taught 1/2 breeds. That's all I was addressing. I don't really know a lot about it other than Jude DOES NOT teach 1/2 breeds.

6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; Jude 6

Jude 6 is referring to angels. ... the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode.

These angels are in chains.

These angels left their properly assigned place.

These angels also left their assigned domain.

These angels are associated with those of sexual immorality as Sodom was.



JLB

 

[JCitoL]

Has nothing to do with the phrase "sons of God" which a clear reference to angels.

JLB

even from your viewpoint under which "angels" means some beings similar to the human who act/operate in the spiritual, there were many such humans till now who acted/operated in the occult/astral/transcendental by methods such as those of yoga, occultism, transcendental meditation, astral projection, etc., and even such who resurrected in the "darkness" and became angels of satan - and these are mostly the so-called "avatars" who are the lords of yoga, but the biblical word "angel" has also the meaning of: spiritual human - it is like the word "heavenly" which means: glorious, spiritual, ethereal, celestial, angelic, divine, etc.

Blessings

 

[reba]

We can have differing views and still get along .....not necessarily directed at the last poster......

2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice.

 

[JLB]

even from your viewpoint under which "angels" means some beings similar to the human who act/operate in the spiritual, there were many such humans till now who acted/operated in the occult/astral/transcendental by methods such as those of yoga, occultism, transcendental meditation, astral projection, etc., and even such who resurrected in the "darkness" and became angels of satan - and these are mostly the so-called "avatars" who are the lords of yoga, but the biblical word "angel" has also the meaning of: spiritual human - it is like the word "heavenly" which means: glorious, spiritual, ethereal, celestial, angelic, divine, etc.

Blessings

Thats very interesting.

Could you show me the scriptures that teach us about:

... such who resurrected in the "darkness" and became angels of Satan.

...the so-called "avatars" who are the lords of yoga

... the biblical word "angel" has also the meaning of: spiritual human.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

PM is a good idea reba

 

[Edward]

I gotta admit, this is some farout stuff, and not something that one can easily wrap their mind around. Nevertheless, we study rather than dismiss it, for that is the scholarly thing to do and also the scriptural thing to do for it is written, study to show thyself approved.

There is another scripture in canon that makes one go hmm. It has not been mentioned yet. I think we can all agree that God does not make errors of speech and grammar. The scripture is true and complete. Our job is to try to get our feeble little man minds to understand and accept it in it's true form without reading into it, or taking away from it, or dismissing it.

The truth may be something that encourages us, discourages us, but always will edify us if we are but willing to receive it. We just need to persevere, pray and keep an open mind and heart. This thread is doing much better than previous threads of the same subject has been so praise the Lord for that. That said, let's take a look at another scripture, shall we? Let's dissect this, examine it's grammar, and see what in the world it may be trying to say to us. The scripture is:

Daniel 2: 43
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay./(KJV)

Here Daniel is interpreting the Kings dream for him. The dream was a prophecy of things to come. Keeping an open mind and not trying to read anything into it, but having the understanding that God does not err, I look at the phrase "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men..." and realize that for the sentence to be grammatically correct, "they" would have to be something 'other' than the 'seed of men', correct?

Oh, please correct me where I am wrong. I hate to be wrong. But, it has happened before. So uh, what is this talking about?

 

[reba]

Daniel 2: 43
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay./(KJV)

is the iron mixed with clay literal? This is a dream / interpretation of a dream.... what was the theme of Danial's interpretation?

He is talking about governments not sex

 

[Chopper]

I gotta admit, this is some farout stuff, and not something that one can easily wrap their mind around. Nevertheless, we study rather than dismiss it, for that is the scholarly thing to do and also the scriptural thing to do for it is written, study to show thyself approved.

There is another scripture in canon that makes one go hmm. It has not been mentioned yet. I think we can all agree that God does not make errors of speech and grammar. The scripture is true and complete. Our job is to try to get our feeble little man minds to understand and accept it in it's true form without reading into it, or taking away from it, or dismissing it.

The truth may be something that encourages us, discourages us, but always will edify us if we are but willing to receive it. We just need to persevere, pray and keep an open mind and heart. This thread is doing much better than previous threads of the same subject has been so praise the Lord for that. That said, let's take a look at another scripture, shall we? Let's dissect this, examine it's grammar, and see what in the world it may be trying to say to us. The scripture is:

Daniel 2: 43
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay./(KJV)

Here Daniel is interpreting the Kings dream for him. The dream was a prophecy of things to come. Keeping an open mind and not trying to read anything into it, but having the understanding that God does not err, I look at the phrase "they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men..." and realize that for the sentence to be grammatically correct, "they" would have to be something 'other' than the 'seed of men', correct?

Oh, please correct me where I am wrong. I hate to be wrong. But, it has happened before. So uh, what is this talking about?

IMO Ed, this verse is speaking of two kingdoms, the people in those two kingdoms, one strong, the other brittle. married each other to make the nation strong against Nebuchadnezzar.

 

[turnorburn]

Since when did angels have reproductive organs..

tob

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

"They" is the fourth kingdom, Rome.
They shall mingle with many different peoples of the earth but will crumble in the end.

 

[Chopper]

Since when did angels have reproductive organs..

tob

Now that is a excellent question. I have asked it before. From what I know, angels don't!!!!!! In heaven there is no marriage.

 

[chessman]

He is talking about governments not sex

. I agree.
It is my understanding that almost universally within OT Scholars from way back (many that didn't even believe that Daniel is/was God Breathed but rather just old secular literature worth studying academically) they agreed that this predicts the rise and fall of various Govt/Empires. That's why for Centuries the anti-God breathed types said Daniel was written so late. They were so astonished as to the accuracy of it's predicting the rise and fall of world powers, they couldn't stand it. Now we know that manuscripts predated the events predicted. So those types just kind of ignore the whole thing.

 

[Sinthesis]

Angles are messengers How many times have i heard that ... odd how the thought of sex changes things.

Consider two different ways to corrupt the righteous. Lure them into forbidden sex acts, for which they would surely repent. Or, through false messages, change what is forbidden, so that those sex acts no longer elicit repentance. The simplistic violence of the former lends itself to mythology(serpent seed). The latter is a far more insidious way to promote corruption, and without requiring physical contact between messengers and those they corrupt.

 

[Sinthesis]

Now that is a excellent question. I have asked it before. From what I know, angels don't!!!!!! In heaven there is no marriage.

Most ideas depend on relative definitions rather than absolute ones. Otherwise the bride of Christ is in for a big shock!

 

[JCitoL]

Thats very interesting.
Could you show me the scriptures that teach us about:
... such who resurrected in the "darkness" and became angels of Satan.
...the so-called "avatars" who are the lords of yoga
... the biblical word "angel" has also the meaning of: spiritual human.

this has already been done, but if you expect that the biblical scripture is orderly to perfection as a schoolbook so that everyone who reads it to understand everything which is explained there, then better know that the Scripture is like a jumbled puzzle whose "pieces" are more or less allegorically/figuratively depicted, so the Truth is more or less hidden there by special spiritual terms/concepts insomuch that only the true Saints understand all the Scripture rightly

and after all the true Lord God gives me again to testify those things (about which you ask)

Genesis 6:1-6 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them(i.e. and they found creeds), That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were(i.e. and the earthly clerics found that the human(666) creeds seemed to be ostensibly) fair; and(i.e. and then) they took them wives(i.e. doctrines) of all which they chose. And(i.e. and for that reason) the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh(i.e. for its spiritual/religious iniquity rises/multiplies): yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants(i.e. the nephilims, viz. greatest clerics of the "darkness" - the ancient yogis/avatars) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men(i.e. when the earthly clerics followed the human creeds), and they bare children(i.e. spiritual children) to them, the same became mighty men(i.e. the same became spiritual giants of universal scale) which were of old, men of renown(i.e. the gigantic clerics of (the) human(666) glory). And God saw that the wickedness(i.e. that the spiritual/religious iniquity) of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart(i.e. of its faith) was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.",

john 5:28-29 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves(viz. all humans that practise deep faith systematically) shall hear his voice(viz. the voice of God), And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation(i.e. unto the resurrection of the "darkness").",

Revelation 13:1-14 "And I stood upon the sand of the sea(viz. upon the multitude of the occult), and saw a beast(viz. a devilish spirit) rise up out of the sea(viz. out of the occult), having seven heads(viz. seven main chakras) and ten horns(viz. and ten high), and upon his horns ten crowns(viz. sublime clerics of the "darkness"), and upon his heads the name of blasphemy(viz. unrighteous conscience/consciousness). And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard(viz. it was selfish), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(viz. and its activity was self-interested), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(viz. and its mind full of great pretensions/claims): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed(viz. and there was a recovery/regeneration/resurrection): and all the world(viz. all the kingdom of (the) human religion/spirituality) wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months(viz. to act in four stages - physical, astral, causal, and transcendental, and (in) two levels - high and low)..... And I beheld another beast(viz. another devilish spirit) coming up out of the earth(viz. out of the world of (the) human religion); and he had two horns(viz. two spirits) like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon(viz. unrighteously). And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed(viz. that there is a recovery/regeneration/resurrection). And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire(viz. power/grace/benediction/bliss) come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to(viz. a doctrine of/cult to) the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live(viz. and resurrected).",

1 Peter 3:18-22 "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison(viz. unto the resurrected spiritual workers/servants of the "darkness"); Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark(viz. while the God's covenant) was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water(viz. by purgatorial spirit). The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God(also: the good(-ness)),) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.",

Jude 1:6-10 "the angels(viz. the spiritual workers/servants) which kept not their first estate(viz. the sanctity), but left their own habitation(viz. the righteousness), he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness(viz. in thrall to the occultism/idolatry) unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication(viz. to idolatry), and going after strange flesh(viz. and defiling the flesh), are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers(viz. these occultists/idolaters) defile the flesh(viz. practise occultism), despise(viz. presume upon) dominion, and speak evil of(viz. and desecrate) dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation(viz. did not dare to became proud before it), but said, The Lord rebuke thee(viz. but abode by the Will of (the) Lord God). But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.",

2 Peter 2:10-15 "chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness(viz. in the system of (the) spiritual iniquity), and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time(viz. they like to seize the godliness/grace of God in favor of the devil). Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery(viz. having minds full of spiritual unrighteousness), and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness(viz. of spiritual iniquity);"

Blessings