As it Was In The Days Of Noah...

[chessman]

Well, there would have to be Scripture that proves your point of humans interbreeding with evil spirits. Putting aside the book of Enoch, which we reject as Canon, there is none. Therefore it does not exist.

My point and view was against interbreeding, not for it.

 

[Chopper]

My point and view was against interbreeding, not for it.

Serves me right to read a post before my second cup of coffee. So just forget you saw that post of mine, hear is a new start; Hey chessman, Thanks for that great post. Right on!

How's that? Oh by the way, by your handle, I'd say you are an avid chess player, or should I say chessmaster! My brother is into chess in a big way. He plays in tournaments here in New England.

 

[JCitoL]

A couple months ago I tried to persuade a brother toward my understanding, that to be a son, one would have to do the works of The Father. It seemed clear that fornication was not a work of God. Jesus is the only begotten son of God and he spoke to the Pharisees saying that they were sons of their father, the devil, as could be seen by their works.

The principle of sonship was the basis of my persuasive attempt. I wanted more. What I wanted was a definitive Scripture. Ask and ye shall receive, right? But I didn't find the key verse that was sought. Instead I asked my brother to pray with me so that to us might be revealed the nature of such things. What happened? The argument and difference of opinion on the subject became an issue between us. A wedge. Something that put a damper on the growing friendship that I treasured.

Then I realized (and I believe this by the Holy Spirit) that I was mis-using the Word of Truth and that it was okay for me to allow variance between brothers. What? Should I really insist that all men believe as I do even when it means a lot to me? So we prayed again and asked that to us it might be revealed what it is that constitutes the nature of the issue.

The issue was dropped between us but others had heard the discussion and had taken their own sides. Some spoke of false judgments such as prejudice taken against those who are large or who had 6 fingers saying, "It's wrong to condemn based on physical attributes." Racial prejudice was alleged.

What is the nature of such things? They are thorny issues. Things that grow to a point then abruptly stop. There can be no fruit here. That's the answer to the prayer. They don't have to be allowed to become such pointed issues as to cause a falling out between brethren and it's sad when we see it happen.

Jesus was aware of the Scripture and didn't speak about it. He declared (perhaps vaguely - but who am I to criticize?) that angels do not marry. I still maintain that this is a thorny issue that needs to be handled with care. It stumbled me and it took me a couple months of going before the Lord before I could continue and resume the quest for peace and unity of the faith. There are too many things that we may focus on like this. I don't find a way to reconcile what was said and what many think it means. That's okay to me but it's sad to see the fallout.

there are angels who are system servants of the Heaven, but there are also humans who are spiritual servants/workers from the earth, the Heavenly Angels of God and Jesus were created in the Heaven at the very beginning of the eternity - They cannot fall from the Heaven, because They are system servants - eternally standing parts of the Heaven, while some earthly clerics may turn out (to be) another kind of angels, because there were for example yogis who could act/operate in an occult way, but such angels are satanic, not God's, because it is impossible that a human become an Angel of God - system servant of the Heaven, for the true God has not determined there to be such an additional Angel, also because there is no need of more such, for the number of the God's Angels, the system servants of the Heaven, is strictly defined considering also that every such has a specific part of the God's omnipotence

and not that it wouldn't be good that believers discuss about the things in the faith among themselves, but the faithfulness to the true Lord God is better than the discussion between humans therein, because everyone who listens to Him, the same understands/learns His Truth which is the True, while there is no guarantee that the follower of the human(666) religion/spirituality (whoever it is) will understand/acquire the Truth so well, because the true Lord God knows all the Truth, while the humans have no such understanding of themselves

Blessings

 

[reba]

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark

This passage says to me... life kinda as we know it was just going on as 'normal' seems a lot get read into it...

 

[chessman]

Thanks for that great post. Right on!
How's that? Oh by the way, by your handle, I'd say you are an avid chess player, or should I say chessmaster! My brother is into chess in a big way. He plays in tournaments here in New England.

Actually, no not really. Chess takes to much time away from the better entertainments of life for me, like spearfishing and um, eating fish. Plus, I don’t like losing.
My real name is Chesser and I'm a man. Thus Chessman. I'm a poet and don't know it, though.
But upon second thought (which I put little thought into my “handle” when I created it) I should have picked something other than Chessman. It causes too much confusion, I suppose. But then again so does Chesser. I didn’t even know what a “handle” was till I signed up for CFNet other than CB, trucker talk. I guess that’s where it comes from. It took me weeks here to figure out what people meant by “trolling”. That one was really confusing me for a while. Now I get it, though. Ironic, since I like to fish so much.

Anyway, I knew that you simply misunderstood what I was trying to say about who the “Sons of God” were/are, so I just thought I’d clarify my view for you and others. I appreciate the thumbs up and apology, but it wasn’t necessary.

 

[JCitoL]

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark

This passage says to me... life kinda as we know it was just going on as 'normal' seems a lot get read into it...

they practised occultism and idolatry, discussed such things and found their disciples and gurus(spiritual leaders) until the last day without repenting of their spiritual iniquities

Blessings

 

[WIP]

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark

This passage says to me... life kinda as we know it was just going on as 'normal' seems a lot get read into it...

I agree. My understanding is that we will continue to live our lives unaware of when Christ will return and then one day, one hour, one minute, one second, one moment, one blink of an eye....

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

[King James]

Well, there would have to be Scripture that proves your point of humans interbreeding with evil spirits. Putting aside the book of Enoch, which we reject as Canon, there is none. Therefore it does not exist.

That leaves the point of fact obvious that you reject the book of Jude as being scripture. While Jude doesn't validate the book of Enoch we have today, it does validate angels breeding with humans argument.

 

[chessman]

[Jude] it does validate angels breeding with humans argument.

I'll bite. Where in Jude specifically? Can you point me to the verse that says "Angels interbreed with humans"?

 

[gr8grace3]

Heb 13:2~~Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it......so angels can take human form?

Jude 1:6-7~~6 And angels who did not keep their own domain,but abandoned their proper abode,He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they(angels) in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh,are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

 

[chessman]

Heb 13:2~~Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it......so angels can take human form?

Well i certainly agree. And spiritual/demon "possession" of a 100% human also is clearly taught.

I'm just unsure about the half-breed 50/50 offspring teaching. I could be wrong but i doubt there is such an example of a half-breed sexual offspring type of thing going on anywhere in Scripture. I don't find it in Jude though, I know that.

Jude 1:6-7~~6 And angels who did not keep their own domain,but abandoned their proper abode,

. I agree. There are fallen Angels that were designed/created to remain in Heaven or maybe even Jude means Hell here, yet now they call Earth their domain. Obviously the Bible teaches demons on Earth. But can they produce sexual offspring? Nah!

Jude 1:6-7~~67 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they(angels) in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh,are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

He says just as the unnatural things as in the things the men of Sodom were doing, the angels also did, right?

Actually, Jude gives about five examples to his main subject (false doctrines creeping into the church) and this is two of them here. The unnatural homosexual acts going on in Sodom is one. And sure, he's saying that is just like "the same" as what was going on in Sodom.

But what does it really say about interbreeding as in producing offspring? Nothing. Jude's' not saying that Angels produced interbreed offspring (50/50) mixtures of human/demons at all. In fact, this passage precludes it, if you really think about it.

What was it that the men of Sodom were doing? Um, we both know so I'll just skip the details. Oh, what the heck, I'll just quote the Scripture:

Genesis 19 (ESV)

5 And they[men] called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.”

So, Does a man lying with another man produce offspring? Um, no. So, just how literally do we take the example Jude gives? He says, "just as" and "in the same way". I. E. no half breeds.

This Scripture speaks for itself in more ways than one.

 

[JLB]

they practised occultism and idolatry, discussed such things and found their disciples and gurus(spiritual leaders) until the last day without repenting of their spiritual iniquities

Blessings

Angelic beings [sons of God] interbred with human women [daughters of men] which resulted in a species of giants known as nephilim.

The marriage and breeding of humans does not result in the offspring of nephilim giants.


JLB

 

[King James]

im sorry I posted here

 

[JLB]

I agree. My understanding is that we will continue to live our lives unaware of when Christ will return and then one day, one hour, one minute, one second, one moment, one blink of an eye....

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Please consider that "they" did not know about the judgment of God to come, but Noah did, and built the Ark to prepare and save his household.

So it is with us.

For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark...

There is a multifaceted wisdom is this statement that goes beyond the surface meaning of "life will be as "normal" for them.

• The flood was a world wide event that saw the entire earth and it's inhabitants affected.

• They were "Giants", nephilim, beings that were the result of an illegal interbreeding of species, that were destroying the natural human species.

• Marrying and given in marriage was a specific reference to the "sons of God" marrying the "daughters of men". There is no mistaking the reference "daughters of men" to mean a distinct separation of species, from "sons of God".
• Be ready gives us a mandate to do the work of preparing as Noah did. God did not build the Ark, Noah did. So we are to prepare for what is coming. An event that will affect the whole world!!!

Jesus teaches us these extremely profound words of wisdom, just a couple of verses later -

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.


JLB

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Angelic beings [sons of God] interbred with human women [daughters of men] which resulted in a species of giants known as nephilim.

The marriage and breeding of humans does not result in the offspring of nephilim giants.


JLB

Where in Scripture does it say that angels were giants?

 

[gr8grace3]

Please consider that "they" did not know about the judgment of God to come, but Noah did, and built the Ark to prepare and save his household.

So it is with us.

For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark...

There is a multifaceted wisdom is this statement that goes beyond the surface meaning of "life will be as "normal" for them.

• The flood was a world wide event that saw the entire earth and it's inhabitants affected.

• They were "Giants", nephilim, beings that were the result of an illegal interbreeding of species, that were destroying the natural human species.

• Marrying and given in marriage was a specific reference to the "sons of God" marrying the "daughters of men". There is no mistaking the reference "daughters of men" to mean a distinct separation of species, from "sons of God".
• Be ready gives us a mandate to do the work of preparing as Noah did. God did not build the Ark, Noah did. So we are to prepare for what is coming. An event that will affect the whole world!!!

Jesus teaches us these extremely profound words of wisdom, just a couple of verses later -

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.


JLB

I agree JLB.

The interbreeding also had a specific purpose. Satan thought murder was the ticket to destroy humanity.....didn't work.

So He went to "infecting" true humanity.

The reason Satan attacked in this way is because of:

Gen 3:15~~And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

Satans goal was to destroy true humanity, because he knew Christ was going to be true humanity. Soooo, try to infect humanity.

I believe it was interbreeding. However, I would not rule out genetic engineering by Satan also. How smart is Satan?

 

[gr8grace3]

Well i certainly agree. And spiritual/demon "possession" of a 100% human also is clearly taught.

I'm just unsure about the half-breed 50/50 offspring teaching. I could be wrong but i doubt there is such an example of a half-breed sexual offspring type of thing going on anywhere in Scripture. I don't find it in Jude though, I know that.

. I agree. There are fallen Angels that were designed/created to remain in Heaven or maybe even Jude means Hell here, yet now they call Earth their domain. Obviously the Bible teaches demons on Earth. But can they produce sexual offspring? Nah!



He says just as the unnatural things as in the things the men of Sodom were doing, the angels also did, right?

Actually, Jude gives about five examples to his main subject (false doctrines creeping into the church) and this is two of them here. The unnatural homosexual acts going on in Sodom is one. And sure, he's saying that is just like "the same" as what was going on in Sodom.

But what does it really say about interbreeding as in producing offspring? Nothing. Jude's' not saying that Angels produced interbreed offspring (50/50) mixtures of human/demons at all. In fact, this passage precludes it, if you really think about it.

What was it that the men of Sodom were doing? Um, we both know so I'll just skip the details. Oh, what the heck, I'll just quote the Scripture:

Genesis 19 (ESV)

5 And they[men] called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.”

So, Does a man lying with another man produce offspring? Um, no. So, just how literally do we take the example Jude gives? He says, "just as" and "in the same way". I. E. no half breeds.

This Scripture speaks for itself in more ways than one.

Yeah, Its a doctrine that I studied for over a year. It is not a one verse and DONE! type of doctrine. But you do see angels "knowing" other men. so at least in these verses we have to admit that the act can be done. If they would do it with men, why not women? It is still strange flesh for an angel.

 

[WIP]

Please consider that "they" did not know about the judgment of God to come, but Noah did, and built the Ark to prepare and save his household.

So it is with us.

For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark...

There is a multifaceted wisdom is this statement that goes beyond the surface meaning of "life will be as "normal" for them.

• The flood was a world wide event that saw the entire earth and it's inhabitants affected.

• They were "Giants", nephilim, beings that were the result of an illegal interbreeding of species, that were destroying the natural human species.

• Marrying and given in marriage was a specific reference to the "sons of God" marrying the "daughters of men". There is no mistaking the reference "daughters of men" to mean a distinct separation of species, from "sons of God".
• Be ready gives us a mandate to do the work of preparing as Noah did. God did not build the Ark, Noah did. So we are to prepare for what is coming. An event that will affect the whole world!!!

Jesus teaches us these extremely profound words of wisdom, just a couple of verses later -

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. 47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.


JLB

I guess I take something different from the text. I read it to say that like in the days of Noah, most of us will live our lives oblivious to the impending coming and when it does happen, only a few will be prepared and ready. "Wide is the path to destruction but narrow the gate to life." Having been told doesn't change the fact that most of us will be oblivious to the coming because we will choose to ignore the warnings. "And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

 

[Chopper]

That leaves the point of fact obvious that you reject the book of Jude as being scripture. While Jude doesn't validate the book of Enoch we have today, it does validate angels breeding with humans argument.

If that's what you want to believe, go for it. I simply don't. The book of Jude is canon and is true. The point of the reference to Enoch is simply saying that Enoch said, by inspiration, the Lord comes etc. the rest of what Enoc wrote was not.

 

[chessman]

Please consider that "they" did not know about the judgment of God to come, but Noah did, and built the Ark to prepare and save his household.

So it is with us.
JLB

Good point. Noah entered the Ark at the precise time God told him to. Then sat there for seven days, till the rain started. Seven, the perfect number.

Genesis 7
English Standard Version (ESV)

7 Then the Lord said to Noah, “Go into the ark, you and all your household, ...4 For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights,...5 And Noah did all that the Lord had commanded...And after seven days the waters of the flood came upon the earth.


Yet sometimes we are told (commanded)

Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.