[_ Old Earth _] Asherah And Archaeology

[VirginShallConceive]

I ran across an interesting article on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah



Here is an excerpt:

Between the 10th century BC and the beginning of their exile in 586 polytheism was normal throughout Israel; it was only after the exile that worship of Yahweh alone became established, and possibly only as late as the time of the Maccabees (2nd century BC) that monotheism became universal among Jews. Some biblical scholars believe that Asherah at one time was worshiped as the consort of Yahweh, the national god of Israel. There are references to the worship of numerous gods throughout Kings, Solomon builds temples to many gods during his reign and Josiah is reported as cutting down the statues of Asherah in the temple Solomon built for Yahweh. Further evidence includes, for example, an 8th century combination of iconography and inscriptions discovered at Kuntillet Ajrud in the northern Sinai desert where a storage jar shows three anthropomorphic figures and an inscription that refers to "Yahweh … and his Asherah". Further evidence includes the many female figurines unearthed in ancient Israel, supporting the view that Asherah functioned as a goddess and consort of Yahweh and was worshiped as the Queen of Heaven.

Are these just crazy assumptions by scientists, or did Yahweh really once have a Queen?

Were the Israelites really polytheistic throughout most of Biblical history, or is this Wikipedia article way off the mark?

 

[Grazer]

I ran across an interesting article on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah



Here is an excerpt:


Are these just crazy assumptions by scientists, or did Yahweh really once have a Queen?

Were the Israelites really polytheistic throughout most of Biblical history, or is this Wikipedia article way off the mark?

The fact its from Wikipedia casts doubt anyway but there may be more reliable sites on the matter. The fact the Israelites may have worshiped a female counterpart to Yahweh is not a massive stretch. Assuming the accounts are accurate (I'm not getting into that discussion right now) the Israelites did go off and worship other Gods, who knows what they came up with. Whether Yahweh had a queen is unlikely, the Israelites worshiping one is not so unlikely. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[abrown9]

The fact that it is from Wikipedia doesn't automatically make it unreliable. The key is know how to determine whether or not articles are accurate. If they don't have citations, don't trust them, and if they have citations, visit them! I find Wiki is a great starting point that usually explains things in a simple format and also links to a number of reputable sources (usually).

Anyways, for this particular issue:

Wilson, 2012. Judean Pillar Figurines and Ethnic Identity in the Shadow of Assyria. Journal for the Study of the Old Testament 36: 1-17.

It appears that Asherah is a figure of worship in Monarchic Judaism and there is some debate over whether she was considered a consort of Yahweh. So it's not a slam dunk but it's probably feasible - religions change and figures go in and out of the narrative.

 

[Knotical]

Hmmm...I wonder if there is a certain resource that could be checked in order to substantiate or falsify these assertions?

 

[Sinthesis]

Read the old testament and it becomes clear that prior to the Babylonian exile the descendants of Israel had a real persistant problem of slipping into polytheism. That all manner of false beliefs were followed should not be a surprise.

 

[cupid dave]

I ran across an interesting article on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah



Here is an excerpt:


Are these just crazy assumptions by scientists, or did Yahweh really once have a Queen?

Were the Israelites really polytheistic throughout most of Biblical history, or is this Wikipedia article way off the mark?

You do make a distinction between whatthe Jews were doing and what the Bible wanted them to do,... right?

The Jews rarely demonstrated a real conviction and national worship of God in the ways that the bible found satisfactory.

Ashtorah and Baal worship is mentioned often, along with the culture that made their children wall thru the fires of Molech, as it was called.
These were the same patterns of behavior that the surrounding Gentiles performed and exactly the kind of stuff the Bible preached against:


Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Grazer, abrown9, Knotical, Sinthesis, and cupid dave:

What happened was, I was browsing around on YouTube, and I came across this video titled Nova. The Bible's Buried Secrets. Part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjPLJTAbk64

The video was narrated by Liev Schreiber, and all of the Bible passages were read by Stockard Channing. There were archaeologists and others discussing a whole bunch of stuff. They were talking about evidence for the existence of King David, they were talking about how they wish they could dig under the Dome of the Rock, they were talking about Egypt, and all sorts of stuff. I think they might have mentioned Asherah, but if they did, they didn't mention too much. I was pretty much just listening while playing Spider Solitaire and Minesweeper. If I heard something that I thought was worth taking a peek at, I would minimize whatever game I was playing. I think Part 1 cut off while they were still discussing King David. I saw that Part 2 was available, so I clicked on that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nSRmsb4uM

Somewhere in Part 2, I heard them discussing Asherah. I stopped playing games and started just watching the video. I opened up a new tab while still listening and typed "Ashera" in Wikipedia's search bar. I was close. It was "Asherah". The Wikipedia article seemed to agree with the video. Interesting stuff.

 

[cupid dave]

Grazer, abrown9, Knotical, Sinthesis, and cupid dave:

What happened was, I was browsing around on YouTube, and I came across this video titled Nova. The Bible's Buried Secrets. Part 1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjPLJTAbk64

The video was narrated by Liev Schreiber, and all of the Bible passages were read by Stockard Channing. There were archaeologists and others discussing a whole bunch of stuff. They were talking about evidence for the existence of King David, they were talking about how they wish they could dig under the Dome of the Rock, they were talking about Egypt, and all sorts of stuff. I think they might have mentioned Asherah, but if they did, they didn't mention too much. I was pretty much just listening while playing Spider Solitaire and Minesweeper. If I heard something that I thought was worth taking a peek at, I would minimize whatever game I was playing. I think Part 1 cut off while they were still discussing King David. I saw that Part 2 was available, so I clicked on that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1nSRmsb4uM

Somewhere in Part 2, I heard them discussing Asherah. I stopped playing games and started just watching the video. I opened up a new tab while still listening and typed "Ashera" in Wikipedia's search bar. I was close. It was "Asherah". The Wikipedia article seemed to agree with the video. Interesting stuff.

Oh...

Well a little more research will inform you that these were the gods of the Gentiles that surrounded the Herbrew patriarchs.
They both had enormous sexual connotations that referred to a "worship" of the Phallus and the flat stone of Ashtorah, i.e.; the Vagina.

The societies where referred to as whoredoms.

The implication seem rather like the modern West surrounding Islam.
God tells these patriarchs to destroy the gentiles.

Sound familiar???/

 

[Sparkey]

Hmmm...I wonder if there is a certain resource that could be checked in order to substantiate or falsify these assertions?

Knowing that even success would be of little use, I went online (just now) to my college Library website (where they have paid, searchable subscriptions to multiple collections) and then selected ProQuest as the most likely. The ProQuest database text search for "Asherah" returned 216 source articles, many of which looked to my cursory glance to be legit. It's the kind of thing that some use for their thesis project(s) but remain well outside non-specific fields of focus. The sources went across the board from general all-purpose Archaeology, to more specific categories like Oriental focused, to religious and included special interest groups like "Women's Literature" (who have reference/quoted the text string I searched for) and many, many other academic or research publications.

I didn't read any of them but to answer your question directly, there are many legitimate sources readily available (to those who have paid the subscription price or otherwise have access) within the scope of academia for the topic.

Although it is easy to confirm the existence of sources, wading through the information to weigh it would be another matter. Maybe a call to your local librarian could tell you if they have a ProQuest subscription available for public use. Libraries at institutions of higher learning typically do.

More on Proquest from their site

 

[Knotical]

Knowing that even success would be of little use, I went online (just now) to my college Library website (where they have paid, searchable subscriptions to multiple collections) and then selected ProQuest as the most likely. The ProQuest database text search for "Asherah" returned 216 source articles, many of which looked to my cursory glance to be legit. It's the kind of thing that some use for their thesis project(s) but remain well outside non-specific fields of focus. The sources went across the board from general all-purpose Archaeology, to more specific categories like Oriental focused, to religious and included special interest groups like "Women's Literature" (who have reference/quoted the text string I searched for) and many, many other academic or research publications.

I didn't read any of them but to answer your question directly, there are many legitimate sources readily available (to those who have paid the subscription price or otherwise have access) within the scope of academia for the topic.

Although it is easy to confirm the existence of sources, wading through the information to weigh it would be another matter. Maybe a call to your local librarian could tell you if they have a ProQuest subscription available for public use. Libraries at institutions of higher learning typically do.

More on Proquest from their site

Apparently your sarcasm-meter was not up high enough. I was referring to the bible.

 

[Sparkey]

Apparently your sarcasm-meter was not up high enough. I was referring to the bible.

:p It wouldn't be the first time. I'm in research mode for school; it colors my thoughts.

 

[Knotical]

:p It wouldn't be the first time. I'm in research mode for school; it colors my thoughts.

That's ok. Just know that usually when I respond to a comment the person I to whom I am addressing should be aware I do present a level of sarcasm. Unless I am being completely serious, of course. But that is the fun of it. ;)

 

[Barbarian]

It might be more precise to say the Israelites gradually grew out of polytheism. While Abraham and the prophets might have understood God's singularity, it's unlikely that the average Israelite understood at once. That took some time.

 

[Carolyn]

I am sure that the Israelites understood that polytheism was wrong and that the worship of the fertility gods baal and astheroth were especially evil, yet they did not obey God and completely destroy all the inhabitants of the promised land and all their posessions. God struck some people dead for their disobedience. Saul spared King Agag ,and the people kept the plunder which probably included household idols, for instance. Then Solomon took foreign wives who also brought their household gods with them. The kingdom went down hill form there. First it split; Northern Israel worshipped in the high places where the ashteroth and baal were placed and all the sexual immorality took place that was associated with their worship. It became a blending of the worship of God with the evil practices that brought judgement upon the land (but I am not sure that human sacrifice was still part of it all.) While Baal was called the king of heaven and Ashtera was called the queen, she was also the queen of the evil that God had instructed the descendants of Jacob Israel to wipe out. The fact that some people call Mary the queen of heaven is especially abhorable, since God had blessed her and chose her to bear His Child by the Holy Spirit. 1 Samuel 15, Deut 6:14; 7:1-5; 12:2-5, 30-31 17:9-12
Jowhua 7,

 

[VirginShallConceive]

I am sure that the Israelites understood that polytheism was wrong and that the worship of the fertility gods baal and astheroth were especially evil, yet they did not obey God and completely destroy all the inhabitants of the promised land and all their posessions.

Were gods like Baal, Ashtoreth, and Asherah real, like fallen angels or something, or were they just made up in the minds of ancient people?

 

[cupid dave]

Were gods like Baal, Ashtoreth, and Asherah real, like fallen angels or something, or were they just made up in the minds of ancient people?

Real?

Do you mean were they physical beings, like we are, or do you already accept the idea that they represent concepts or Ideals which appear, immortally, in every generation?

They are "real" in either case, but as an Ideal, they are spiritual entities which attrach the men and women as does a philosophy of life.
As when we observe people whose philosophy of Life can be observed in the way they behave, we could call that behavior worship, if we refer to the religious dimension.

For instance, in the Greek Myth, Eros was the mataphysical model that played out the role of homosexuality. Homosexuals even today demonstrate behaviors that would be identical to their ancient fore-runners, hence imply immortality of this metaphysical expression found in every generation that ever lived.

That is real, it is immortal, is what a god means.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Real?

Do you mean were they physical beings, like we are, or do you already accept the idea that they represent concepts or Ideals which appear, immortally, in every generation?

They are "real" in either case, but as an Ideal, they are spiritual entities which attrach the men and women as does a philosophy of life.
As when we observe people whose philosophy of Life can be observed in the way they behave, we could call that behavior worship, if we refer to the religious dimension.

For instance, in the Greek Myth, Eros was the mataphysical model that played out the role of homosexuality. Homosexuals even today demonstrate behaviors that would be identical to their ancient fore-runners, hence imply immortality of this metaphysical expression found in every generation that ever lived.

That is real, it is immortal, is what a god means.

"And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there." -1 Kings 18:40


So, Yahweh is basically an allegorical reference to an "Ideal of Good", and Baal is basically an allegorical reference to an "Ideal of Bad". Is that what you are saying?

Did Elijah actually slay the failed prophets of Baal, or is that another ideological concept?

 

[cupid dave]

"And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there." -1 Kings 18:40


So, Yahweh is basically an allegorical reference to an "Ideal of Good", and Baal is basically an allegorical reference to an "Ideal of Bad". Is that what you are saying?

Did Elijah actually slay the failed prophets of Baal, or is that another ideological concept?

?
Ideal of good...

Hmmmm...

I didn't actually say that.

I said the ideals, philosophical outlooks, paths one comes to rely upon in order to cope with the world at large are our gods.
We give names to them at times, and even create symbolic structures or idols to represent them.

It is the idea that the Sun God is god that enabled Pharaoh to usurp the identity as king over the masses, contending that his decisions were good for Egypt.

But it seems more usual that whole masses of people do actually behave in a way that myth writers could caracture as a worship of the God of Craft or the goddess of sexual beauty.
We see these people in Hollywood and in our building industries today, spending their life in these pursuits which others in the next generation will duplicate, immortally, forever more, as if a god head reigned over these pursuits and gather the congregation from each next generation to follow us.

 

[Carolyn]

Idols were never real, but 1 Corinthians 10: 14-22 tells us that demonic forces are çonnected to idols and idolitry.

 

[cupid dave]

Idols were never real, but 1 Corinthians 10: 14-22 tells us that demonic forces are çonnected to idols and idolitry.

What do you mean by "real."

We have discovered the Phallus idols which the scriptures speak of.
They are "real."