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God No One Has Seen At Any Time

In Hebrew there are variations of the root word adon. They are not all used the same ways and in the same context. The variant we are talking about right now is ’ă·ḏō·nî because that's the one that's used in Psalm 110:1. Other variants may mean different things, but the one that matters in regards to Jesus not being God right now is adoni. So I am actually trying to help you. As I previously pointed out, this is beyond dispute, and I would even go so far as to ring the bell and call this check mate. Adoni is used 100% of the time to refer to human masters/lords in the Bible. Let's look at some of the examples where this is the truth.

Below, the word used to refer to Jesus as the Lord at the right hand of YHWH in Psalm 110:1 is used 100% exlcusively in regards to those who are not God in the Bible.

Gen. 24:36​
My master’s wife Sarah has borne him a son in her old age, and my master has given him everything he owns.​
Gen. 32:4​
He instructed them, “You are to say to my master Esau, ‘Your servant Jacob says: I have been staying with Laban and have remained there until now.​
Gen. 44:9​
If any of your servants is found to have it, he must die, and the rest will become slaves of my lord.”​
1 Sam. 24:6​
So he said to his men, “The LORD forbid that I should do such a thing to my master, the LORD’s anointed. May I never lift my hand against him, since he is the LORD’s anointed.”​
1 Sam. 25:27​
Now let this gift your servant has brought to my lord be given to the young men who follow you​
2 Sam. 4:8​
They brought the head of Ish-bosheth to David at Hebron and said to the king, “Here is the head of Ish-bosheth son of Saul, your enemy who sought your life. Today the LORD has granted vengeance to my lord the king against Saul and his offspring.”​
2 Sam. 19:28​
For all the house of my grandfather deserves death from my lord the king, yet you have set your servant among those who eat at your table. What further right, then, do I have to keep appealing to the king?”​
1 Kings 1:2​
So his servants said to him, “Let us search for a young virgin for our lord the king, to attend to him and care for him and lie by his side to keep him warm.”​
1 Kings 18:13​
Was it not reported to my lord what I did when Jezebel slaughtered the prophets of the LORD? I hid a hundred prophets of the LORD, fifty men per cave, and I provided them with food and water.​
1 Kings 20:9​
So Ahab answered the messengers of Ben-hadad, “Tell my lord the king, ‘All that you demanded of your servant the first time I will do, but this thing I cannot do.’ ”​
1 Chronicles 21:3​
But Joab replied, “May the LORD multiply His troops a hundred times over. My lord the king, are they not all servants of my lord? Why does my lord want to do this? Why should he bring guilt on Israel?”​
Psalm 110:1​
The LORD said to my Lord:​
“Sit at My right hand​
until I make Your enemies​
a footstool for Your feet.”​

Let me disprove .

From your own list here, you quote 1 Kings 1:2, where the Hebrew is "la·ḏō·nî"

Psalm 8:1, "O LORD (yehôvâh), our Lord (’ă·ḏō·nê·nū), how Majestic is Your Name in all the earth! You have set your Glory above the heavens”. the same in verse 9, "

And, in Psalm 147:5, "Great is our Lord (’ă·ḏō·nê·nū) and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite"

the EXACT SAME root Hebrew word as 1 Kings!

I have shown MANY examples where the ROOT Hebrew "’āḏōn", is used for Almighty God. It matters ZERO, if the FORM reads, "MY Lord", "THE Lord", YOUR Lord", "OUR Lord". What does matter, is the ROOT Hebrew! This is what you FAIL to grasp, because you don't know Hebrew!
 
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Psalm 110:1 uses the word adoni of Jesus which is very strong proof Jesus isn’t God.

And verse 5, which is also speaking of Jesus Christ, has YHWH in 20 Hebrew manuscripts, or “’ăḏōnāy”,BOTH used for Almighty God!

You can try all you like to TWIST what the Bible says, but will always FAIL!
 
Let me disprove your nonsense once and for all!

From your own list here, you quote 1 Kings 1:2, where the Hebrew is "la·ḏō·nî"

Psalm 8:1, "O LORD (yehôvâh), our Lord (’ă·ḏō·nê·nū), how Majestic is Your Name in all the earth! You have set your Glory above the heavens”. the same in verse 9, "

And, in Psalm 147:5, "Great is our Lord (’ă·ḏō·nê·nū) and abundant in strength; His understanding is infinite"

the EXACT SAME root Hebrew word as 1 Kings!

I have shown MANY examples where the ROOT Hebrew "’āḏōn", is used for Almighty God. It matters ZERO, if the FORM reads, "MY Lord", "THE Lord", YOUR Lord", "OUR Lord". What does matter, is the ROOT Hebrew! This is what you FAIL to grasp, because you don't know Hebrew!
I am certainly by no means a Hebrew expert, but I know with certainty about this particular word because it's important to me.

The base word is "adon" and there are other forms of this word used in different contexts with different meanings. There is, of course, adonai, adoni, etc. We know this much.

What we have in Psalm 110:1 is the word adoni. This word is used 100% exclusively in reference to human masters. This is strong proof that Jesus isn't God.
 
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And verse 5, which is also speaking of Jesus Christ, has YHWH in 20 Hebrew manuscripts, or “’ăḏōnāy”,BOTH used for Almighty God!

You can try all you like to TWIST what the Bible says, but will always FAIL!
Pitting scripture against scripture to prove something that isn't scripture is not scholarly honesty or best practice. It would seem you really need the Bible to be wrong about this. Many have tried before you, but none have succeeded.

Yet what we have in Psalm 110:1, as it has always remained, is that the Lord at the LORDS right hand is not YHWH as the word adoni proves.
 
Indeed, there is much FALSE info on here, especially from those who oppose the TRUTH of the Bible, and hold on to their TWISTED THEOLOGY!
I have won this debate. Adoni is used exclusively to refer to human masters. Psalm 110:1 proves it that Jesus isn't God.
 
Indeed, there is much FALSE info on here, especially from those who oppose the TRUTH of the Bible, and hold on to their TWISTED THEOLOGY!
Hold That Thought!

0000.0231 seconds search - > Is there any truth on the internet, without what is false ?

RESULTS: 3 billion occasions of what is false; 3 million what is truth.

Thus: Do Not Trust The Internet At All.

Test Everything
 
Hold That Thought!

0000.0231 seconds search - > Is there any truth on the internet, without what is false ?

RESULTS: 3 billion occasions of what is false; 3 million what is truth.

Thus: Do Not Trust The Internet At All.

Test Everything

When I said, "there is much FALSE info on here". I am referring to THIS website, Christianforums, and not the general internet.
 
When I said, "there is much FALSE info on here". I am referring to THIS website, Christianforums, and not the general internet.
That was noted. That is also correct. As forums are published for profit, that is expected.
That is still/also why most things everywhere on the internet are false or are meant to deceive.
 
Mod note . I think you all know this , but here it is .

1.3: Use self control and focus on reconciliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

1.1: Grant others the courtesy to be understood and acknowledge their views. As best as one is capable, speak truth in love.; ( Mathew 7:12, 1 Corinthians 13:1-13)
 
I want to add something here for the readers to only enhance the understanding of Jesus not being YHWH. There are examples of adonai occasionally referring to regular humans.

Genesis 19​
18But Lot replied, “No, my lords, please!​
Genesis 24​
9So the servant placed his hand under the thigh of his master Abraham and swore an oath to him concerning this matter.​
Genesis 39​
2And the LORD was with Joseph, and he became a successful man, serving in the household of his Egyptian master.​

But there is no time adoni is used of God such as is the case in Psalm 110:1.

I would also like to add that when Psalm 110:1 is quoted in the New Testament, Luke 20:42 for example, "l’adoni" is translated as "to my lord" (to kurio mou), while it translates "adonai" (not present in Psalm 110:1 but is in Psalm 110:5 and elsewhere) as "the Lord" (kurios). Thus, "adoni" is translated as "my lord" and "adonai" as "the Lord." This proves an awareness of the distinction between "adonai" and "adoni" in Greek translations. Proving that Jesus is not YHWH even in the New Testament as well as the Septuagint.
 
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Firstly, the literal Hebrew reads, "nə·’um Yah·weh la·ḏō·nî", which is in English, "said Yahweh to my Lord". There is no article used with "Yah·weh".

Secondly, in verse 5, when speaking of "la·ḏō·nî", it says, "’ă·ḏō·nāy ‘al yə·mî·nə·ḵā", "The Lord at Your Right Hand"

Note here, that here it is not the same "Lord" as in verse 1, which is the root, "’ă·ḏō·n"; but "’ă·ḏō·nāy", which is used 100's of times for Almighty God!

Further, in about 20 of the Jewish Hebrew manuscripts for this Psalm, instead of reading "’ă·ḏō·nāy", it reads, "Yah·weh". This means that "la·ḏō·nî", is also YHWH!

With this reading, verse one reads, "YHWH said to my YHWH", where we have TWO distinct Persons Who are equally called YHWH.

These are FACTS and not theology!
As Jesus implied if David calls the "Christ" Lord how can He be His son?
"My Lord" is Davids Sovereign in context

Not God said to God
 
That was noted. That is also correct. As forums are published for profit, that is expected.
That is still/also why most things everywhere on the internet are false or are meant to deceive.
There is no profit here.
Here's a question for you....
What should we do, or how should we handle persons that believe they're Christian but don't believe Jesus is God?

Is it at all helpful for those who DO believe Jesus is God (our SofF) to learn how to debate with those that do not?

SolaScriptura

Or anyone else that wishes to post a reply.


PS
We made a special sub-forum for TRINITARIANISM so that those who do not like these discussions could avoid them altogether.
 
No one can be a true Christian and believer in Jesus Christ as LORD, IF they deny that Jesus Christ is YHWH, Almighty God

No exceptions

It's orthodox Trinitarianism that Jesus isn't YHWH. Not many people believe what you do about this. That's a lot of Trinitarians you seem to be condemning. Here's the short list.

Some Trinitarian commentaries that apparently don't believe the Lord at the LORD's right hand is YHWH in Psalm 110:1.

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

"my Lord] The R.V. has rightly dropped the capital letter, as being of the nature of an interpretation. ‘My lord’ (adônî) is the title of respect and reverence used in the O.T. in addressing or speaking of a person of rank and dignity, especially a king (Genesis 23:6; 1 Samuel 22:11; 1 Kings 1. passim, Psalm 18:7; and frequently)."​

Pulpit Commentary

"Verse 1. - The Lord said unto my Lord. Jehovah said unto him who is my Lord and Master, i.e. to Messiah, who is my liege Lord, although about to be, in some mysterious way, my descendant."​

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

"The Lord said unto my Lord - In the Hebrew, "Spake Jehovah to my Lord." The word יהוה Yahweh is the incommunicable name of God. It is never given to a created being. The other word translated "Lord - אדני 'Adonāy - means one who has rule or authority; one of high rank; one who has dominion; one who is the owner or possessor, etc. This word is applied frequently to a creature. It is applied to kings, princes, rulers, masters. "​

Got Questions: What does it mean that “the Lord said to my Lord”?

"The first “Lord” in “the LORD says to my Lord” is the eternal God of the universe, the Great I AM who revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 3. This self-existent, omnipotent God speaks in Psalm 110 to someone else who is also David’s “Lord.”
The second “Lord” in “the LORD says to my Lord” is the Messiah, or the Christ. Psalm 110 describes this second “Lord” as follows:"​
 
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Jesus isn't YHWH
deal with these Bible passages

We have the Prophecy in Isaiah 40:3, of the First Coming of Jesus Christ:

"The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of YHWH in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God"

In Matthew 3:3, we read that this Prophecy is fulfilled when Jesus Christ Came into this world

"For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord (YHWH); Make His paths straight.’ ”

How can this passages from Isaiah, which Speaks of the Coming of YHWH, be fulfilled in the First Coming of Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH?

In Numbers 21:6, we read;

"YHWH sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died"

In 1 Corinthians 10:9, Pauls says;

"nor let us tempt the Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents"

Again, the Actions of YHWH in the Old Testament, are directly said to be that of Jesus Christ. Paul could not have used this passage from Numbers, and apply it to Jesus Christ, if He is not Himself YHWH.

In Joel 2:32, we read;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of YHWH shall be saved"

In Peter's sermon in Acts chapter 2, we read of the Prophecy in Joel from verse 14. In verse 21 Peter quotes;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord (YHWH) shall be saved"

In Romans chapter 10, Paul is speaking of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and salvation in Him. In verse 13 Paul says;

"For “everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved.”

It is impossible for both Peter and Paul to have quoted the passage from Joel, of YHWH, and apply it directly to Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH

In Isaiah 45:21-23 we read;

"Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, YHWH? And there is no other God besides Me, A Just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath"

In Philippians 2:9-11, Paul says;

"Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father"

Clearly Paul is quoting the passage from Isaiah as fulfilled in Jesus Christ. All of what is spoken by Isaiah, is clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH, The Just God, and Savior. And it is to Jesus Christ that every knee will bow, which will be to the Glory of God the Father!

How are these passages, that speak of Jesus Christ as YHWH, be so, if He is not Himself YHWH, which makes Jesus Christ Almighty God, and 100% COEQUAL with God the Father.
 
deal with these Bible passages

We have the Prophecy in Isaiah 40:3, of the First Coming of Jesus Christ:

"The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of YHWH in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God"

In Matthew 3:3, we read that this Prophecy is fulfilled when Jesus Christ Came into this world

"For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord (YHWH); Make His paths straight.’ ”

How can this passages from Isaiah, which Speaks of the Coming of YHWH, be fulfilled in the First Coming of Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH?

In Numbers 21:6, we read;

"YHWH sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died"

In 1 Corinthians 10:9, Pauls says;

"nor let us tempt the Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents"

Again, the Actions of YHWH in the Old Testament, are directly said to be that of Jesus Christ. Paul could not have used this passage from Numbers, and apply it to Jesus Christ, if He is not Himself YHWH.

In Joel 2:32, we read;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of YHWH shall be saved"

In Peter's sermon in Acts chapter 2, we read of the Prophecy in Joel from verse 14. In verse 21 Peter quotes;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord (YHWH) shall be saved"

In Romans chapter 10, Paul is speaking of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and salvation in Him. In verse 13 Paul says;

"For “everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved.”

It is impossible for both Peter and Paul to have quoted the passage from Joel, of YHWH, and apply it directly to Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH

In Isaiah 45:21-23 we read;

"Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, YHWH? And there is no other God besides Me, A Just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath"

In Philippians 2:9-11, Paul says;

"Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father"

Clearly Paul is quoting the passage from Isaiah as fulfilled in Jesus Christ. All of what is spoken by Isaiah, is clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH, The Just God, and Savior. And it is to Jesus Christ that every knee will bow, which will be to the Glory of God the Father!

How are these passages, that speak of Jesus Christ as YHWH, be so, if He is not Himself YHWH, which makes Jesus Christ Almighty God, and 100% COEQUAL with God the Father.
Do you believe this?
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,

The Only Begotten Son of God,

Born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,

True God from true God,

Begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
 
Do you believe this?
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,

The Only Begotten Son of God,

Born of the Father before all ages.

God from God, Light from Light,

True God from true God,

Begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;

Except for the start and end, the rest is RANK HERESY
 
No one can be a true Christian and believer in Jesus Christ as LORD, IF they deny that Jesus Christ is YHWH, Almighty God

No exceptions
I can pass this test and it has nothing to do with your statement.
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

The Father is the only true God or Deity. (unbegotten)
Jesus His Son is God the begotten. Begotten from the Father alone. Col 1:19 The Deity was gifted not formed.
The Deity dwells IN God the begotten as He is not that Deity in Himself. Col 2:9; Col 1:19
Jesus declared the Father was living in Him doing His work. They are one.

Were Jesus's disciples the Son of God?
Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”


God is our heavenly Father to all including God the begotten.
God the Father of us.
And the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
deal with these Bible passages

We have the Prophecy in Isaiah 40:3, of the First Coming of Jesus Christ:

"The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of YHWH in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God"
That isn't about Jesus. That is a prophecy of what John the Baptist was going to say regarding God. In regards to Jesus, John said in John 1:30 "This is He of whom I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because He was before me.’

In Matthew 3:3, we read that this Prophecy is fulfilled when Jesus Christ Came into this world

"For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord (YHWH); Make His paths straight.’ ”
Once again, this is about John the Baptist's baptism for repentance. In calling the people of Israel to repentance, the way for God is made clear. That isn't about John preparing the way for Jesus. Jesus' disciples were also baptizing people for the same reason because it was a commandment from God.

John 4​
1When Jesus realized that the Pharisees were aware He was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John 2(although it was not Jesus who baptized, but His disciples),​
How can this passages from Isaiah, which Speaks of the Coming of YHWH, be fulfilled in the First Coming of Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH?
Because of the call to repentance. Even Jesus himself partook in John's water baptism of repentance. How could you insist YHWH is taking a water baptism of repentance?

Acts 19​
4Paul explained: “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance...​

In Numbers 21:6, we read;

"YHWH sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died"

In 1 Corinthians 10:9, Pauls says;

"nor let us tempt the Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents"
1 Corinthians 10:9 isn't about something Jesus did in the past. It's about the example of what happened to those in the past serving as a warning for what can happen in the present. Just read the context.

1 Corinthians 10​
11Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.​
Again, the Actions of YHWH in the Old Testament, are directly said to be that of Jesus Christ. Paul could not have used this passage from Numbers, and apply it to Jesus Christ, if He is not Himself YHWH.
The actions of YHWH are not those of Jesus. See Psalm 110:1 as an example. They are not the same person.

In Joel 2:32, we read;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of YHWH shall be saved"
Yes, call on the name of YHWH to be saved. There is no verse about calling on the name of Jesus to be saved. Salvation originates from YHWH, not Jesus. Jesus is God's sacrificial lamb, the Messiah He installed, but the power of salvation comes from God, the gospel came from God, etc.

John 12​
49I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it. 50And I know that His command leads to eternal life. So I speak exactly what the Father has told Me to say.”​
In Peter's sermon in Acts chapter 2, we read of the Prophecy in Joel from verse 14. In verse 21 Peter quotes;

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord (YHWH) shall be saved"
It's about YHWH, not Jesus. It's very plainly there in what you quoted.

In Romans chapter 10, Paul is speaking of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and salvation in Him. In verse 13 Paul says;

"For “everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord (YHWH) will be saved.”
Once again about YHWH. Look at the context. In Romans 10:11, it says "It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.”

Now compare Romans 10:11 to Isaiah 28:16:

Isaiah 28:16​
16So this is what the Lord GOD says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,​
a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
the one who believes will never be shaken.

The stone that YHWH laid is the cornerstone, Jesus. YHWH and Jesus are clearly not the same person.
It is impossible for both Peter and Paul to have quoted the passage from Joel, of YHWH, and apply it directly to Jesus Christ, if He is not YHWH
That's not what is happening.

In Isaiah 45:21-23 we read;

"Tell and bring forth your case; Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told it from that time? Have not I, YHWH? And there is no other God besides Me, A Just God and a Savior; There is none besides Me. "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath"
Perfect. Now you know with certainty that Jesus is not God. YHWH, the Father, is the only true God. John 17:3.

In Philippians 2:9-11, Paul says;

"Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father"
Correct again. Jesus does not get any glory in heaven, earth, or under earth when he is bowed to. All glory goes to God, known as the Father, known as YHWH.

Clearly Paul is quoting the passage from Isaiah as fulfilled in Jesus Christ. All of what is spoken by Isaiah, is clear that Jesus Christ is YHWH, The Just God, and Savior. And it is to Jesus Christ that every knee will bow, which will be to the Glory of God the Father!
Why would Jesus be YHWH when he doesn't get any glory when he's bowed to?

How are these passages, that speak of Jesus Christ as YHWH, be so, if He is not Himself YHWH, which makes Jesus Christ Almighty God, and 100% COEQUAL with God the Father.
Psalm 110:1 proves that Jesus isn't YHWH beyond any doubt and many of the verses you quoted directly refute your premise.

Furthermore, Jesus denied being equal to God:

John 10​
29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all....​
John 14​
28...the Father is greater than I.​
 
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