Ask an atheist thread

[F.Z.]

Hi CF

Let me introduce myself. My name's Freddy and I live in Canada, currently attending a college up here. I come from a very religious Christian family and had been a devout, practising Christian my entire life until a couple of years ago when I decided to become an atheist.

Before we start, I just want to say that I'm not here to convert anyone. I'm not here to bash anyone. I have a lot of love and respect for average Christians and their good deeds.

That being said, I'm here to answer any questions that some of you might have, provided they are respectfully posted and not condescending. You can expect I'll act the same. Ask me any questions you may have about myself or atheism, or anything else you would like to know. I've been through both sides of the spectrum and just thought it appropriate to give you my input.

-Freddy

 

[LostSoul]

Hi CF

Let me introduce myself. My name's Freddy and I live in Canada, currently attending a college up here. I come from a very religious Christian family and had been a devout, practising Christian my entire life until a couple of years ago when I decided to become an atheist.

Before we start, I just want to say that I'm not here to convert anyone. I'm not here to bash anyone. I have a lot of love and respect for average Christians and their good deeds.

That being said, I'm here to answer any questions that some of you might have, provided they are respectfully posted and not condescending. You can expect I'll act the same. Ask me any questions you may have about myself or atheism, or anything else you would like to know. I've been through both sides of the spectrum and just thought it appropriate to give you my input.

-Freddy

Freddy,

Welcome to Christian Forums. It is always a pleasure to see a new face.

You mentioned that you had been brought up in a Christian home and followed such faith yourself for a time. If it is alright, and I am not being too forward....what is it that turned you away? In other words, what changed?

No doubt a number of us go through times in which we question what we believe in be it God, aliens, or otherwise. I, myself, had a time in which my faith dwindled, wavered, and even died away. That is where I find myself fortunate God led me back to Him through ample seeking of my own.

Was it perhaps a question or two within your mind in regards of your faith that drew you away? Or was it something else?

I apologize again if I am too forward. I do not mean to come off as pushy or unwelcoming. Glad to have you Freddy, hope you choose to stay for a while. There are some amazing people here, and some truly fascinating studies in terms of the bible, religious doctrines, and faith all around.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[F.Z.]

My simple answer is this. Even as a Christian, I had always believed in evolution. I never saw science and religion as conflicting subjects, but rather saw a beautiful synergy between the two and was in awe at the beauty of God's own creation.

Christians have varying opinions on the origin of the species and the universe; some believe the earth is 6000 years old, and that the dinosaurs never really existed. Others believe the dinosaurs were actually mentioned in the bible (the Leviathan, I think). But I believe most Christians share the view that dinosaurs did exist, that the earth is a few billion years old, and that evolution is an accepted theory of how we came to be.

In any case, I just want to be clear that Darwinism and atheism are not synonymous, just as Darwinism and Creationism are not antonymous. Evolution in no way proves or disproves the existence of God.

Listen. I'm a very open-minded person, maybe a little too much for my own good. People pleaded their case against evolution and I listened. There was one popular notion that there are are no records of transitional species to prove that evolution ever happened. After finding several examples of transitional species I found that the claim was deceptive. (I don't really want to get into that as the debates go on forever)

Well here was one of the things that really intrigued me as I got to thinking about religion. Is the only reason that we don't murder, or steal, or rape, because of fear of punishment? After some thought, my answer was no. There is an empathetic element in all of us that makes us feel bad for doing harm unto others. The only exception to this is psychopathy. In other words, It is not because I fear eternal punishment that I have my morals, it's because I find it wrong.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you [Matthew 7:120].

A beautiful quote from the bible. However, the idea has been around since the beginning of history in all parts of the world, even those who did not follow Judeo-Christian values. It is not an element of the bible, but rather an element of human compassion that makes us do what we do. In general, we all have it. Some of us just choose to ignore it.

 

[F.Z.]

Freddy,

Welcome to Christian Forums. It is always a pleasure to see a new face.

You mentioned that you had been brought up in a Christian home and followed such faith yourself for a time. If it is alright, and I am not being too forward....what is it that turned you away? In other words, what changed?

No doubt a number of us go through times in which we question what we believe in be it God, aliens, or otherwise. I, myself, had a time in which my faith dwindled, wavered, and even died away. That is where I find myself fortunate God led me back to Him through ample seeking of my own.

Was it perhaps a question or two within your mind in regards of your faith that drew you away? Or was it something else?

I apologize again if I am too forward. I do not mean to come off as pushy or unwelcoming. Glad to have you Freddy, hope you choose to stay for a while. There are some amazing people here, and some truly fascinating studies in terms of the bible, religious doctrines, and faith all around.

May God Bless You

Danielle

Hi Danielle

To be honest with you, I've always had my doubts in the back of my mind whether or not God was real, even as a child.

it pretty much happened a couple of years ago when I was diagnosed with cancer. I know what you're thinking, I thought God had abandoned me so I abandoned him. That wasn't the case. In fact, praying every day gave me hope that everything would be fine and helped me get through it.

No, what happened was that I spent most of my time at home due to chemo sickness. Thinking. Praying. Thinking. Praying. It occurred to me that some things just didn't add up, or were too large a coincidence to let slide.

First of all, it occurred to me that the only reason I was a Christian, was because I was born in a Christian family. The only reason I believed that Christianity was the one true faith, was because Christianity said so. Just like Muslims think Islam is the true faith, or Jews think theirs is the true faith, or all the thousands of religions that denounce all other Gods as false. The only reason I believed what I did, was because I was told to.

Then I took a look at the bible. Read it several times. I found many contradictions, and a few statements that were absolutely impossible to believe. For example, the story of Noah's ark told us that there was a great flood that filled the whole earth. Here are a few questions that immediately came to mind.

Where did the water come from to flood the entire earth? Where did the water go?
How did fish survive with fresh and salt water mixing?
How did animals from distant parts of the earth walk to the Middle East?
How did they return to South America and Australia and every island in every ocean afterwards?
How did the few thousand animals possibly on the ark multiply and evolve into the millions of species we see today in just a few thousand years, especially since some Christians believe evolution is false?
How did Noah carry all that food? Dispose of hundreds of tons of manure every day?
How could a boat made entirely of wood be so much larger than any wooden ship could ever be without collapsing under its own weight?
Did Noah's sons and daughters reproduce amongst themselves to renew the population?
What did the carnivores eat? They're supposed to eat other animals.

And many other questions came to mind. The typical answer my pastor gave me to each question was: "God did it. God did that too. God." Basically, a lot of things in the bible didn't make sense. And its only defense was that the Bible said that the Bible was true. If some things in the bible weren't true, how was I supposed to believe the rest of it? By listening to the bible? That didn't make sense to me.

There were many other reasons, that I'd rather not get into here, out of respect for the Christian community. Let me just say that after years of being fed the same story, I had finally decided to check it out for myself, and that is why I became an atheist.

It is said that the devil plants the seed of doubt in every one of us, that we should not ask questions and just have faith. I think that's pretty clever. I just didn't buy it.

 

[LostSoul]

Hi Danielle

To be honest with you, I've always had my doubts in the back of my mind whether or not God was real, even as a child.

it pretty much happened a couple of years ago when I was diagnosed with cancer. I know what you're thinking, I thought God had abandoned me so I abandoned him. That wasn't the case. In fact, praying every day gave me hope that everything would be fine and helped me get through it.

No, what happened was that I spent most of my time at home due to chemo sickness. Thinking. Praying. Thinking. Praying. It occurred to me that some things just didn't add up, or were too large a coincidence to let slide.

First of all, it occurred to me that the only reason I was a Christian, was because I was born in a Christian family. The only reason I believed that Christianity was the one true faith, was because Christianity said so. Just like Muslims think Islam is the true faith, or Jews think theirs is the true faith, or all the thousands of religions that denounce all other Gods as false. The only reason I believed what I did, was because I was told to.

Then I took a look at the bible. Read it several times. I found many contradictions, and a few statements that were absolutely impossible to believe. For example, the story of Noah's ark told us that there was a great flood that filled the whole earth. Here are a few questions that immediately came to mind.

Where did the water come from to flood the entire earth? Where did the water go?
How did fish survive with fresh and salt water mixing?
How did animals from distant parts of the earth walk to the Middle East?
How did they return to South America and Australia and every island in every ocean afterwards?
How did the few thousand animals possibly on the ark multiply and evolve into the millions of species we see today in just a few thousand years, especially since some Christians believe evolution is false?
How did Noah carry all that food? Dispose of hundreds of tons of manure every day?
How could a boat made entirely of wood be so much larger than any wooden ship could ever be without collapsing under its own weight?
Did Noah's sons and daughters reproduce amongst themselves to renew the population?
What did the carnivores eat? They're supposed to eat other animals.

And many other questions came to mind. The typical answer my pastor gave me to each question was: "God did it. God did that too. God." Basically, a lot of things in the bible didn't make sense. And its only defense was that the Bible said that the Bible was true. If some things in the bible weren't true, how was I supposed to believe the rest of it? By listening to the bible? That didn't make sense to me.

There were many other reasons, that I'd rather not get into here, out of respect for the Christian community. Let me just say that after years of being fed the same story, I had finally decided to check it out for myself, and that is why I became an atheist.

It is said that the devil plants the seed of doubt in every one of us, that we should not ask questions and just have faith. I think that's pretty clever. I just didn't buy it.

Hello Again Freddy,

In truth, assumptions could not be made in regards of your falling out of faith. For like you, as I said before...I had a time in which I questioned my own.

You ask a good question or two in terms of scripture with the story of Noah. Do you feel those passages contradictory? Or is simply the unexplained in them hard to fathom?

No doubt, there have been times I have pondered at God's divine reasoning, let alone way of planning things. For sometimes the things in which have occurred or are ongoing astound me beyond belief to where I cannot help but ask myself....why?

Are there certain passages you feel are contradicting? If so...could you perhaps share some?

I will not lie to you, some of the questions I asked myself when I stopped believing for a time were ones like these:

If God is such a loving God....why does He allow so much suffering?
Is it the righteous alone who are not meant to suffer?
Is any form of hardship truly a form of punishment?

There are likely some others too, just cannot recall some of them at the time. I do hope you find your time here enjoyable Freddy. This site can be a fairly welcoming one and friendly one as well. Yes you might occassionally bump into a passionate soul from time to time, maybe a couple old grouches, and one or two baby brained young ladies. Still, where would we be without a little uniqueness? Again it is a real pleasure to have you.

 

[F.Z.]

About the Noah story, it's not so much that I found it hard to fathom as much as I found it a physical impossibility. My whole life I believed that my religion and rational science blended in with each other just fine, but here was a story telling me something as far-fetched as,for example, the sun revolving around the earth (which Christians did actually believe until it was scientifically disproved). It sounded like a nice legend that a bunch of ancient nomads would have told each other during their long trips. In fact it did seem that way, as similar versions of the story already existed throughout the middle-east before the Noah story was ever told. The nomads' lack of knowledge caused the story to be a little more far-fetched and less believable than it had been told several centuries before, in a different form.

And that's just it. Every time I wonder about something that clearly doesn't add up or something contradictory in the bible, the justification is that a character in the bible is responsible and that I should just shut up and believe in Him without asking questions. To me that seems like the biggest scapegoat in history.

You asked me to point out some contradictions in the Bible but the truth is I don't remember them, I had written some important ones down on a piece of paper 2 years ago and have since lost it. I could easily go on google and find some but I guess any of you could do that.

There's one I remember though, I think it was one verse saying that you shouldn't cut your hair, the other saying that letting your hair grow makes you look like a woman and is an abomination. There were lots of little things like that, and some bigger contradictions that I can't remember. I'll post some here if I can.

In the meantime, here's a video I think you guys would all enjoy. It's about a guy who spent a year following every rule in the bible. Check it out:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/a_j_ ... cally.html

I will not lie to you, some of the questions I asked myself when I stopped believing for a time were ones like these:

If God is such a loving God....why does He allow so much suffering?
Is it the righteous alone who are not meant to suffer?
Is any form of hardship truly a form of punishment?

Interestingly enough, I never had much trouble with those questions. Here was my reasoning at the time:

"If God is such a loving God....why does He allow so much suffering?"

Because suffering brings us closer to Him. If the world was perfect, we would stray away from God. Life is a test, and a test with easy answers wouldn't be a good test at all.

"Is it the righteous alone who are not meant to suffer?"

Non-Christians aren't necessarily going to hell. One can be righteous and never have heard about Christianity. Likewise, a Christian can be undeserving of a place in paradise.

"Is any form of hardship truly a form of punishment?"

In a spiritual sense, hardship is a good thing. When I was going through the cancer, I prayed more. I learned who my real friends are. I became more attached to everyone and began to appreciate life with an intense passion. Humans think of hardship and suffering as a bad thing, but just like the rainbow after a storm, there is always some good that comes out of it.

 

[Rick W]

Plainly said then...
Where did morals come from?

Being made in the image of God comes to mind.

 

[Free]

In other words, It is not because I fear eternal punishment that I have my morals, it's because I find it wrong.

I don't know of any Christian who bases their morality on fear of eternal punishment.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you [Matthew 7:120].

A beautiful quote from the bible. However, the idea has been around since the beginning of history in all parts of the world, even those who did not follow Judeo-Christian values. It is not an element of the bible, but rather an element of human compassion that makes us do what we do. In general, we all have it. Some of us just choose to ignore it.

And that is a good argument for objective morality.

In this particular discussion, I believe that we have developed a set of morals as a survival mechanism. You believe that a divine power gave us these morals for whatever reason. We can't really discuss it at this point, because we will eventually be driven back to square one.

On the contrary, if we have not been given moral law by a moral lawgiver, then any idea of morality essentially becomes meaningless.

Welcome to the forums.

 

[F.Z.]

Hi Free

I don't know of any Christian who bases their morality on fear of eternal punishment.

That's kinda my point. All religion really offers when it comes to morals is a consequence; be good and you go to heaven, be bad and you're off to hell. What I'm saying is that we don't develop our morals from the Bible, we are actually born with them. Now, whether they come from God or whether they are a survival mechanism depends on one's opinion and is i.m.o. irrelevant to the discussion (because at this point all we can do is agree to disagree).

[...]

And that is a good argument for objective morality.

Agreed (and ty. lol)

On the contrary, if we have not been given moral law by a moral lawgiver, then any idea of morality essentially becomes meaningless.

Ah, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Free. Morality, the distinction between right and wrong, is and always has been at the core of human intellect. In general, morality serves as a set of common sense rules to ensure a functioning society. The only difference in religion is that you get to please God in the process, and thus you are pleased with your own actions. That is what I like about religion, it is character-building. An atheist would need to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing by sticking to their guns, whereas a religious person is very much satisfied with the idea of the Lord being pleased with them for being righteous.

 

[LostSoul]

F.Z.

You brought up some very interesting points in terms of the Biblical scriptures in regards of Noah. I am not certain but I think I have read of at least some proof that if not the whole earth itself, then a large portion of it was indeed flooded.

I can try to review some readings I have done and perhaps share with you on this later? Yes?

As to it being similar to other religious prophecy or scriptures. I cannot argue that. Then in the Bible does it not speak of many forms of false witnesses or prophets?

Please do not see this necessarily as an effort to save you, but rather a means for us to enlighten one another. I do appologize if I come across as pushy, I am not meaning to force my beliefs upon you. Merely open some windows of thought.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[Free]

Hi Free

I don't know of any Christian who bases their morality on fear of eternal punishment.

That's kinda my point. All religion really offers when it comes to morals is a consequence; be good and you go to heaven, be bad and you're off to hell. What I'm saying is that we don't develop our morals from the Bible, we are actually born with them. Now, whether they come from God or whether they are a survival mechanism depends on one's opinion and is i.m.o. irrelevant to the discussion (because at this point all we can do is agree to disagree).

I thought you were implying that Christians do base their morality on fear of eternal punishment. I have debated many atheists who do use that argument.

On the contrary, if we have not been given moral law by a moral lawgiver, then any idea of morality essentially becomes meaningless.

Ah, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Free. Morality, the distinction between right and wrong, is and always has been at the core of human intellect. In general, morality serves as a set of common sense rules to ensure a functioning society. The only difference in religion is that you get to please God in the process, and thus you are pleased with your own actions. That is what I like about religion, it is character-building. An atheist would need to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing by sticking to their guns, whereas a religious person is very much satisfied with the idea of the Lord being pleased with them for being righteous.

But therein lies the problem with claiming that morality is a social construct or survival mechanism. It would then change from society to society and individual to individual, becoming relativistic, not objective. If morals can be said to be applicable to every person, in every place and at all times, then there has to be an absolute frame of reference.

 

[GojuBrian]

The only question I have for an atheist is one I never get an answer to.

What do you have to look forward to?

Read my sig...

OH!! Welcome aboard!!

 

[Reido]

But therein lies the problem with claiming that morality is a social construct or survival mechanism. It would then change from society to society and individual to individual, becoming relativistic, not objective. If morals can be said to be applicable to every person, in every place and at all times, then there has to be an absolute frame of reference.

Sorry for butting in but...
In my opinion morality is subjective, or relativistic.
You'll notice most people have different views on what is right an what is wrong. Morality does vary from person to person and society to society. It also changes with the times.

 

[F.Z.]

I thought you were implying that Christians do base their morality on fear of eternal punishment. I have debated many atheists who do use that argument.

No, all I'm saying is Christians do fear eternal punishment while atheists do not, but that their fundamentals are the same. A distinction between right and wrong is a property of every human, no matter what religion (or lack of religion ;) ).

But therein lies the problem with claiming that morality is a social construct or survival mechanism. It would then change from society to society and individual to individual, becoming relativistic, not objective. If morals can be said to be applicable to every person, in every place and at all times, then there has to be an absolute frame of reference.

I agree with moral universalism in the sense that we all have a basic sense of right and wrong, and there *do* exist some values which are common to every society. But societies have and continue to develop individual morals, cultural traditions, codes of ethics, etc. The basis is there, but every society moulds its own version to fit into its system. If you look at it that way, then moral objectivism is only partly true i.m.o.

 

[F.Z.]

The only question I have for an atheist is one I never get an answer to.

What do you have to look forward to?

Read my sig...

OH!! Welcome aboard!!

Hi Brian

What do I have to look forward to? Life! Experiencing every corner of the world, making a positive difference in society, raising a beautiful family, facing my fears, trying out new things..you get the point. Christians look forward to the afterlife, so much so that the most religious will begin to completely detach themselves from reality (I've seen it happen). Let me ask you this: if you believe you have done good in life, and the afterlife is infinitely better than current life could ever be, then why don't we all start recklessly endangering ourselves? Technically it isn't suicide, just stupid behaviour. And I don't think stupidity is a sin.

Nah I'm just kidding about that part. But the fact is being an atheist just made me appreciate life that much more. Ever since my conversion I have been infinitely happier, because now I know that how precious and short life is.

It's almost like having a near-death experience.

edit: oh and about your sig, I would argue that God is an atheist because he doesn't believe in a higher power ;) Think about it.

edit2: thanks for the input reido!

 

[Reido]

edit2: thanks for the input reido!

You're welcome.
I decided to withhold most of my input on this because it seems like most of what I would've said is in agreement with what you're saying and you're handling these questions just fine on your own.

 

[GojuBrian]

The only question I have for an atheist is one I never get an answer to.

What do you have to look forward to?

Read my sig...

OH!! Welcome aboard!!

Hi Brian

What do I have to look forward to? Life! Experiencing every corner of the world, making a positive difference in society, raising a beautiful family, facing my fears, trying out new things..you get the point. Christians look forward to the afterlife, so much so that the most religious will begin to completely detach themselves from reality (I've seen it happen). Let me ask you this: if you believe you have done good in life, and the afterlife is infinitely better than current life could ever be, then why don't we all start recklessly endangering ourselves? Technically it isn't suicide, just stupid behaviour. And I don't think stupidity is a sin.

Nah I'm just kidding about that part. But the fact is being an atheist just made me appreciate life that much more. Ever since my conversion I have been infinitely happier, because now I know that how precious and short life is.

It's almost like having a near-death experience.

edit: oh and about your sig, I would argue that God is an atheist because he doesn't believe in a higher power ;) Think about it.

edit2: thanks for the input reido!

Life is precious and short, but a Christian can have the same view and outlook as you and still be a believer. Being a Christian doesn't take anything out of life.

"If you live for the next world, you get this one in the deal. If you live for this one, you lose them both." C.S. Lewis

 

[Reido]

Life is precious and short, but a Christian can have the same view and outlook as you and still be a believer. Being a Christian doesn't take anything out of life.

"If you live for the next world, you get this one in the deal. If you live for this one, you lose them both." C.S. Lewis

I agree, being a Christian doesn't neccesarily, and shouldn't, take anything out of life.
And being an atheist doesn't neccesarily make life better, either.
But I think the point F.Z. was making was that being an atheist has made his outlook on life better, not worse.

As for the C.S. Lewis quote, it actually took me a moment to get it but I think it's an interesting quote. However, it seems like you're now trying to make his outlook on life worse. I don't see why you would want to do that.

 

[Bunga Gunga]

Hello everyone, Just thought I'd throw my point of view into this discussion, regarding what an atheist has to look forward to. As an atheist myself I have always looked forward to living my life in a way that makes me happy and doesn't hurt anyone else. I look forward to dying someday and completing the circle of life. I don't know what happens to our conciseness when we die but I know I don't want to live forever. What I do know about death is that your body decomposes back into the basic elements it's made of. Cremation accelerates this of course. I like to base my views on what I know to be true through available evidence and observation. I look forward to being re assimilated into the Earth. I'm not trying to make it sound silly. The closest thing to God I see is the Earth. So in my own way when I die I will be with my God.

 

[ProphetMark]

OK, here's my question:

What proof, or evidence, can you offer that God doesn't exist?