Ask an atheist thread

[Adullam]

Actually a Christian does sacrifice this present life in order to obtain a place in the next. We sow this life to reap an eternal one. If we sow to the Spirit, we will of the Spirit reap life.

An atheist needs to enjoy this present life! This is all he has. They (non-believers) are like extras in a movie. The film is not about them.

Too many Christians now live as if this life were the eternal one and that happiness is the goal here. But this is backwards in regards to Christ. He who loves his life here will lose it for eternity.

Temporal things are seen and enjoyed now. Eternal things are invisible now, but will be enjoyed eternally by those who sow to them. We reap what we sow.

Paul said that if a Christian has his reward only in this life, then we are the most miserable of creatures. We suffer here. But we are sowing to eternity. Where is the wisdom in someone who opts for a few years of pleasure while neglecting an eternity of joy?

<><

John

 

[RND]

Hi CF

Let me introduce myself. My name's Freddy and I live in Canada, currently attending a college up here. I come from a very religious Christian family and had been a devout, practising Christian my entire life until a couple of years ago when I decided to become an atheist.

Before we start, I just want to say that I'm not here to convert anyone. I'm not here to bash anyone. I have a lot of love and respect for average Christians and their good deeds.

That being said, I'm here to answer any questions that some of you might have, provided they are respectfully posted and not condescending. You can expect I'll act the same. Ask me any questions you may have about myself or atheism, or anything else you would like to know. I've been through both sides of the spectrum and just thought it appropriate to give you my input.

-Freddy

Freddy, how much knowledge would you say you have? Of all the knowledge in the world, that has ever been or will ever be, how much would you guess you possess? 100%? 50%? 10%? .001%?

Is it possible that God exists in the part "you don't know?"

 

[RND]

Sorry for butting in but...
In my opinion morality is subjective, or relativistic.
You'll notice most people have different views on what is right an what is wrong. Morality does vary from person to person and society to society. It also changes with the times.

So if someone punched you in the face you'd judge the right of it, or wrong of it as being "subjective or relativistic?"

What would you use to judge as being punched in the face as "right or wrong?"

 

[Bunga Gunga]

OK, here's my question:

What proof, or evidence, can you offer that God doesn't exist?

Atheists don't look at it that way. Atheists aren't trying to prove the existence of god. They aren't making any claims towards the supernatural. To an Atheist the burden to prove the existence of god lies on the believer. In other words, I have never seen any evidence that has convinced me there is a god therefore I have no reason to believe in one. I have always wondered how a believer knows which religion to follow? Aside from the common childhood indoctrination how do you know that you're not supposed to be following Ra or Zeus?

 

[RND]

In other words, I have never seen any evidence that has convinced me there is a god therefore I have no reason to believe in one.

Bunga Gunga how much knowledge would you say you have? Of all the knowledge in the world, that has ever been or will ever be, how much would you guess you possess? 100%? 50%? 10%? .001%?

Is it possible that God exists in the part "you don't know?"

 

[Bunga Gunga]

Is it possible god exists, sure it is. It seems rather unlikely though. Besides if you think that you have to possess all the knowledge in the universe to discount the existence of god then you would also have to possess all the information in the universe to confirm the existence. I have heard this argument before and all it does is bring you back to square one. Maybe there is proof of god somewhere in this vast sea of knowledge, I haven't seen any though. The line of thinking that says you must have all the knowledge in the universe to disprove god's existence applies to all gods and religions too though. By the same logic isn't it possible that Ra is the one true god? Apollo? Zeus? It's all possible but i'll stick with my disbelief due to lack of evidence.

 

[RND]

Is it possible god exists, sure it is.

Outstanding! Progress and understanding!

It seems rather unlikely though.

Based on what? In what part of the "knowledge you don't know" would that be based on?

Besides if you think that you have to possess all the knowledge in the universe to discount the existence of god then you would also have to possess all the information in the universe to confirm the existence.

That's just it, no conclusion was made by me. I don't "know" everything so for me it is quite obvious that God can exist within the realm I "don't know."

I have heard this argument before and all it does is bring you back to square one. Maybe there is proof of god somewhere in this vast sea of knowledge, I haven't seen any though.

Now, by your own admission you don't know everything. So the best answer you can hope to come up with is "I don't know." You believe, therefore, just as a believer of God does in your eyes then. You believe in the great "I don't know!"

The line of thinking that says you must have all the knowledge in the universe to disprove god's existence applies to all gods and religions too though.

Doesn't say that at all! It's really a simple premise that you already answered! You don't know everything. In the part you "don't know" God can (and does BTW, me not you) exist! :yes

By the same logic isn't it possible that Ra is the one true god?

I don't know! Anything is possible!

Apollo? Zeus?

I don't know! Anything is possible!

It's all possible but i'll stick with my disbelief due to lack of evidence.

Lack of evidence based on what you "don't know?"

 

[Bunga Gunga]

That's cool that god exists to you and all. I need something to convince me. If there is proof out there that god exists I want to see it. Without proof the claim of any gods existence is as empty as the Flying Spaghetti Monster. The lack of evidence is based on what i know. I know I have never been presented with any evidence that there is a god. All I'm asking for is some proof and no one has ever been able to provide any to me. I don't feel like there is a reason to believe in god, sure there is great "i don't know," but since there is no evidence available supporting god's existence there is no reason to give any weight to the possibility. You can't form a valid hypothesis to test god's existence. I'm open to possibilities but not baseless claims. The claim that god exists is based on nothing, it does not matter that I can't disprove god. Why would I have to disprove something that is based on nothing? I could claim that the milky way galaxy is made of cheese, that claim falls into the realm of possibilities but is still based on nothing, can you go prove that it isn't made of cheese?

 

[RND]

That's cool that god exists to you and all. I need something to convince me. If there is proof out there that god exists I want to see it.

A babies cry and a babies smile are all that I need to prove the existence of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Without proof the claim of any gods existence is as empty as the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

The originator of which once cried and smiled as a baby.

The lack of evidence is based on what i know.

Using that logic a murder would never be solved. Lack of "evidence" doesn't disprove the existence of something.

I know I have never been presented with any evidence that there is a god.

And, based on your previous answer, neither have you presented any evidence that there is "NOT" a God.

All I'm asking for is some proof and no one has ever been able to provide any to me.

Look around your world, all the evidence you need is all around.

I don't feel like there is a reason to believe in god, sure there is great "i don't know," but since there is no evidence available supporting god's existence there is no reason to give any weight to the possibility.

And yet, even by your own words the "possibility" exists.

Tell me something, if a friend walked up to you and said, "There's a bomb in your car, I saw them put it in your car." What "evidence" would you have that there was a bomb in your car?

You can't form a valid hypothesis to test god's existence.

Neither can one be performed He doesn't.

I'm open to possibilities but not baseless claims.

Really? "...there is no reason to give any weight to the possibility." So....which is it?

The claim that god exists is based on nothing, it does not matter that I can't disprove god.

Lack of evidence doesn't disprove nor prove the existence of something.

Why would I have to disprove something that is based on nothing?

I dunno. Maybe ask a homicide or arson investigator.

I could claim that the milky way galaxy is made of cheese, that claim falls into the realm of possibilities but is still based on nothing, can you go prove that it isn't made of cheese?

:biglol Of course.

 

[Bunga Gunga]

first off that whole thing about babies.. it's all assumption
Murders are solved by collecting evidence, physical evidence. Still to this date there is no physical evidence of god. And just looking around I see the earth, yes it's beautiful to me, no that doesn't prove anything as far as weather or not god exists. If a friend told me they saw someone put a bomb in my car yeah i don't know for sure they are telling the truth, but I can make a reasonable assumption that they are based on my past experiences with that person. oh and if the car blows up that'll be good enough proof for me. And no there is no reason for me to give weight to the possibility of god because as i said before, there is no physical evidence. I'm not trying to disprove god's existence, I'm saying I have never seen anything remotely resembling evidence towards the existence of a god or gods. To me the whole god thing is no different than the Flying Spaghetti Monster, just something made up by people and I'm not buying into it. those crime investigators have evidence to work with, maybe not enough to convict someone all the time, but they are working with physical evidence which is what they base their investigations on.

 

[RND]

first off that whole thing about babies.. it's all assumption

Assumption? You mean babies don't cry? Babies don't smile? There is no such thing as babies?

Murders are solved by collecting evidence, physical evidence.

Right. But murders would never be solved if people saw a dead body and said, "Well, there's no evidence."

Still to this date there is no physical evidence of god. And just looking around I see the earth, yes it's beautiful to me, no that doesn't prove anything as far as weather or not god exists.

No kidding! Where'd the trees come from? The sea? The air? The light? Did all of that just happened? If so, you have much more faith than I do. You believe these things just "happened." I believe these things were made.

Tell me, you live in a house I suppose. What "evidence" do you have that the house you live in was designed?

If a friend told me they saw someone put a bomb in my car yeah i don't know for sure they are telling the truth, but I can make a reasonable assumption that they are based on my past experiences with that person. oh and if the car blows up that'll be good enough proof for me. And no there is no reason for me to give weight to the possibility of god because as i said before, there is no physical evidence.

That fact that you live, breathe, etc., is "physical evidence."

I'm not trying to disprove god's existence, I'm saying I have never seen anything remotely resembling evidence towards the existence of a god or gods.

Why not? Have you seen any evidence that "disproves" the existence of a god or gods?

To me the whole god thing is no different than the Flying Spaghetti Monster, just something made up by people and I'm not buying into it.

And yet, by your own words you admit the possibility that God can indeed exist.

those crime investigators have evidence to work with, maybe not enough to convict someone all the time, but they are working with physical evidence which is what they base their investigations on.

Those "crime investigators" would never have any evidence if they failed to "look" for any. I see the same problem with you an most "atheists." They all say, "I don't "see" any evidence for God" as if evidence comes up to them and says "Hello, I'm the evidence" you want. Murder investigations don't work that way.

Do you need a gun present to determine the shooting victim was murdered? Of course not! That would be akin to saying, "Wow, look at all the bullet holes in that guy's chest. But I don't see a gun anywhere. He must not have been shot." If murder investigations were conducted that way nothing would get solved. And yet, the "evidence" is all around you. Birds, trees, oceans and people. God said He made it all. Now, "prove" He didn't! What's that, you say you can't. I guess His word must stand true since it is the only evidence we have.

 

[Bunga Gunga]

your great at taking things out of context. Yes babies smile and cry so what, that does not mean there is a god. If you see a dead body and there is no evidence of murder, then maybe it isn't murder.. usually an autopsy can confirm this. Just because humans aren't aware of how our Universe came into being doesn't mean it was designed. Assuming that it had to have been made by a creator is soo limiting and lazy; the answers are provided for you already so you don't even have to do the work to find out for yourself. The scientific method has gotten us this far (your using your computer thanks to science) slowly but surely more answers will be provided by it. People used to think the earth was flat and suggesting otherwise was heresy, Darwin's theory of evolution was/is looked at the same way by many. The evidence I have that my house was designed is that it follows standard construction code, it has blueprints, the design was approved by the city, i could go on. The fact that I live and breath is evidence that I am alive, nothing more. You ask why I don't care about disproving the existence of god.. I didn't think I'd have to say this again, but there is no reason for me to even believe in a god in the first place so there is equally no reason for me to try to disprove it. And yes I'll admit the possibility of a god or gods, just the same as I'll admit the possibility of the flying spaghetti monster, neither is more valid than the other due to lack of evidence. How do you know that god said he made it all? maybe it's written in the bible, but the bible was written by people. How do you know you have picked the right religion? Most of them out there think their way is the only way. Can you be a little bit of each. They can't all be right can they? Just because I don't have all the answers doesn't mean I'm going to start making assumptions about a grand creator, it doesn't make any sense to me and a conclusion based on assumptions will never hold weight in my mind. I see the world for what it is and I have never seen any Gods in it.

 

[RND]

your great at taking things out of context. Yes babies smile and cry so what, that does not mean there is a god.

I just ask questions, and let everything else fall into place.....no "taking anything out of context. Babies smile and cry. Great, understanding! Now, where do babies learn to smile and cry? Is this innate or learned behavior?

If you see a dead body and there is no evidence of murder, then maybe it isn't murder.. usually an autopsy can confirm this.

Right, I get that part. What I what to know is, whether there is or isn't any invisible evidence, why is there a desire to investigate to reach the truth? Certainly, when someone comes across a dead body they call the proper authority's and an investigation is conducted with the purpose of resolving the matter. One doesn't just shrug their shoulders and walk away saying there's no proof a crime.

Just because humans aren't aware of how our Universe came into being doesn't mean it was designed.

Just because humans aren't aware of how our Universe came into being doesn't mean it was NOT designed.

Assuming that it had to have been made by a creator is soo limiting and lazy; the answers are provided for you already so you don't even have to do the work to find out for yourself.

In what way? I think that fits with our desire to know the truth. Understanding how something works or operates reveals the nature of the creator in my eyes.

The scientific method has gotten us this far (your using your computer thanks to science) slowly but surely more answers will be provided by it.

Would there be a "computer" without man? Where did man come from? Primordial ooze?

People used to think the earth was flat and suggesting otherwise was heresy, Darwin's theory of evolution was/is looked at the same way by many.

And yet, the Bible answers both questions quite clearly.

The evidence I have that my house was designed is that it follows standard construction code, it has blueprints, the design was approved by the city, i could go on.

And yet, all of those are insignificant in revealing a designer. Besides, where did the codes come from (i.e. designed), the method of blueprinting (i.e. designed), the people behind the approval (i.e. designed).

The fact that I live and breath is evidence that I am alive, nothing more.

It's evidence you were made, unless of course you has something to do with the egg and seed.

You ask why I don't care about disproving the existence of god.. I didn't think I'd have to say this again, but there is no reason for me to even believe in a god in the first place so there is equally no reason for me to try to disprove it.

There is no reason for you 'now' that's not to say there won't be a reason tomorrow. Of course your point could be turned upon it's head to say that since you had to reason to drive, why learn.

And yes I'll admit the possibility of a god or gods, just the same as I'll admit the possibility of the flying spaghetti monster, neither is more valid than the other due to lack of evidence.

There is no evidence or possibility of a "flying spaghetti monster."

How do you know that god said he made it all?

He said He did.

maybe it's written in the bible, but the bible was written by people.

Sure. But who wrote it on my heart?

How do you know you have picked the right religion?

I don't believe I had much of a choice in that. Nor to I believe that just because one is born into a different religion or culture doesn't mean that God does not reveal Himself to people.

Most of them out there think their way is the only way.

Yep.

Can you be a little bit of each.

Yep.

They can't all be right can they?

Nope.

Just because I don't have all the answers doesn't mean I'm going to start making assumptions about a grand creator, it doesn't make any sense to me and a conclusion based on assumptions will never hold weight in my mind.

Well, that gets back to the assumption of the dead person. If we see one why the necessity or "assumption" to get at the truth. According to your belief if we come across a dead body we should call the proper authority's because we would be making an assumption about the dead person.

I see the world for what it is and I have never seen any Gods in it.

Even though, according to your own words it is a possibility.

 

[RND]

Where's Freddy? I wanted to ask where quarks come from.

 

[Vic C.]

Where's Freddy? I wanted to ask where quarks come from.

Well since this is Freddy's thread that got hijacked, I think you wanting to ask him a question puts us back on topic, sort of.

I trust your question is sincere.

I also want to remind you all that despite being in the "Other Religions" forum, that we are still on a Christian Forum. Do not come here disrespecting our Faith and the Creator of all and expect to be a welcome guest here.

One more thing, I DO NOT want to hear one more thing about flying monsters or spaghetti unless the spaghetti is being offered to me as a meal. :nod

 

[RND]

Where's Freddy? I wanted to ask where quarks come from.

Well since this is Freddy's thread that got hijacked, I think you wanting to ask him a question puts us back on topic, sort of.

I trust your question is sincere.

I also want to remind you all that despite being in the "Other Religions" forum, that we are still on a Christian Forum. Do not come here disrespecting our Faith and the Creator of all and expect to be a welcome guest here.

One more thing, I DO NOT want to hear one more thing about flying monsters or spaghetti unless the spaghetti is being offered to me as a meal. :nod

Vic, did you just remove the comments and remarks left by me and Bunga Gunga? Why? This was a good exchange taking place frankly.

 

[Vic C.]

RND, please check your PM inbox.

 

[Reido]

Sorry for butting in but...
In my opinion morality is subjective, or relativistic.
You'll notice most people have different views on what is right an what is wrong. Morality does vary from person to person and society to society. It also changes with the times.

So if someone punched you in the face you'd judge the right of it, or wrong of it as being "subjective or relativistic?"

What would you use to judge as being punched in the face as "right or wrong?"

Um, yes I would. Whoever punched me in the face probably had a reason to do so. Chances are, I'd view it as wrong and the person who punched me would view it as right.

I would use my brain/mind, of course.

 

[RND]

Um, yes I would. Whoever punched me in the face probably had a reason to do so.

Is there ever a justifiable reason for violence, especially violence for "no reason"?

Chances are, I'd view it as wrong and the person who punched me would view it as right.

Based on? What would lead you to believe the act itself would be wrong?

I would use my brain/mind, of course.

Let's hope so.

What if someone took your car without your permission? Would you see that as justifiable no matter what?

 

[Reido]

Um, yes I would. Whoever punched me in the face probably had a reason to do so.

Is there ever a justifiable reason for violence, especially violence for "no reason"?

Chances are, I'd view it as wrong and the person who punched me would view it as right.

Based on? What would lead you to believe the act itself would be wrong?

Well it would depend on their reason for hitting me, really. There's a chance I could actually view it as right, or at least justified. I need more specific details in this hypothetical situation to decide why I'd believe it's wrong.

What if someone took your car without your permission? Would you see that as justifiable no matter what?

No matter what? No. I said I believe morals are subjective. It would depend on the situation.