Atheism And Ceasing To Exist Oblivion.

[Randy]

Jesus, none of the gospels were written by the apostles, this is based on theological findings and research. The actual authors are unknown.

You believe Jesus had Apostles? Where did you learn that from?
The authors were very clear in their message about Christ Jesus.
So you think Paul was a liar?

1Peter
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Milk-Drops]

You believe Jesus had Apostles? Where did you learn that from?
The authors were very clear in their message about Christ Jesus.
So you think Paul was a liar?

Why would I think Paul is a liar? Do I think The budha, from, or muhamed are liars? No I think these people are part of their naratives.

1Peter
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Hey, did you know that Martin the Warrior Defeated Sarmeina of the Green Eyes and Redwall Abby was constructed on the remains of her castle. Or is Martin a liar?

 

[GodsGrace]

That is correct, I don't believe in a God or gods.


Not necessarily. I can believe peo0le can be mistaken or wrote what they believe to be true. That is far from an implication of it being intentional lies. I don't read Redwall or Lird of the rings and call that lies.

Hey MD
If Lord of the Rings is not a lie, what is it?

Do you have any concept of what God MIGHT be like?

 

[christian1724]

Do I think something that isn't spiritual can recognize itself? Sure. If by chemical dependant, you mean that I perceive the world through physical means we understand to be physical and chemical laws? sure.

Yes, I meant physical/chemical reactions, like they teach in school I guess.

I assume it is your view, from a previous post, that people around you who you cherish continue to exist once your physical/chemical existence ceases (they exist outside of your own existence)? Do you believe that Truth exists (Truth being that which is reliable/trustworthy - not subjective)?

 

[Randy]

Why would I think Paul is a liar? Do I think The budha, from, or muhamed are liars? No I think these people are part of their naratives.


Hey, did you know that Martin the Warrior Defeated Sarmeina of the Green Eyes and Redwall Abby was constructed on the remains of her castle. Or is Martin a liar?

First you wrote off all the testimony of the gospels because you are not sure who wrote them.

Well we know about Paul's letters and he wrote alot about Jesus and God. You don't believe that testimony. Hence you must believe he is a deceiver or false teacher.

You also must think the ancient Israelites were a superstitious people since archology/history bears witness of the temple of God. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob which you don't believe exists.

I don't believe muhammad was a prophet and if he claimed to be one he was a liar and deceiver.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Hey MD
If Lord of the Rings is not a lie, what is it?

It's a tale with compelling characters, motives, and relatable themes. It's allegory. Since I am talking to people who are Christian. Jesus would give parables. The people didn't necessarily exist, but the point of the stories still stood. I see several parts of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as a mix of historical and allegorical texts. I differentiate that from a lie, because the point of a lie is to decide. I don't think the authors of the Books of the Bible were trying to decieve.

Do you have any concept of what God MIGHT be like?

decide. Think a God would be beyond understanding of humans. This is why I don't see people who believe in a God or gods any differently than me. I just think it's a difference of philosophical stand points.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus, none of the gospels were written by the apostles, this is based on theological findings and research. The actual authors are unknown.

What about the Dead Sea Scrolls which were the actual letters that were written by the Prophets and Apostles as God inspired them to write. What about all the archeological evidence that has been discovered that Christ did exist. Do you believe all of that are nothing but lies.

I know my Savior lives as he has proven it to me way to many times for me to doubt His existence. None of us were believers in the beginning until we started seeking.

 

[Milk-Drops]

First you wrote off all the testimony of the gospels because you are not sure who wrote them..

No, my stance is that I'm not calling the apostles or Jesus a liar, because they were not the authors.

Well we know about Paul's letters and he wrote alot about Jesus and God. You don't believe that testimony. Hence you must believe he is a deceiver or false teacher.

I can believe Paul believed what he held to be his beliefs. That doesn't make him a liar. Once again, my stance is about intent.

You also must think the ancient Israelites were a superstitious people since archology/history bears witness of the temple of God. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob which you don't believe exists.

When didnI say that? I said I don't believe in god(s), not that some historical aspects or people didn't exist.

For instance, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism make references to real life locations and historical figures. I don't believe in those religions either.

I don't believe muhammad was a prophet and if he claimed to be one he was a liar and deceiver.

Do you think it's possible he could have been deceived? There is a difference between a fool and a liar.

 

[Milk-Drops]

What about the Dead Sea Scrolls which were the actual letters that were written by the Prophets and Apostles as God inspired them to write. What about all the archeological evidence that has been discovered that Christ did exist. Do you believe all of that are nothing but lies.

From what I understand, the Dead Sea Scrolls still were not written by the apostles themselves. They are the oldest known manuscripts of parts of the gospels. I am not saying there wasn't a historical person known as Jesus. What I am saying is that I don't believe in some of the more super natural aspects of Christianity and Judaism. I also think parts of the narrative has changed naturally before they were written. That is not me saying it's lies, but the nature of oral tradition.

I know my Savior lives as he has proven it to me way to many times for me to doubt His existence. None of us were believers in the beginning until we started seeking.

If that is how you feel and believe, good for you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Milk-Drops I'm curious about something as you have been in these forums for almost as long as I have. Let me ask you first of all why are you here, even though you are more than welcomed to be here, and if one is a true atheists' why would they even want to talk about something they do not believe in? I always found that a little odd.

 

[for_his_glory]

From what I understand, the Dead Sea Scrolls still were not written by the apostles themselves. They are the oldest known manuscripts of parts of the gospels. I am not saying there wasn't a historical person known as Jesus. What I am saying is that I don't believe in some of the more super natural aspects of Christianity and Judaism. I also think parts of the narrative has changed naturally before they were written. That is not me saying it's lies, but the nature of oral tradition.

If that is how you feel and believe, good for you.

Fair enough thank you

Not sure what you mean by "super natural aspects of Christianity" can you elaborate on this.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Fair enough thank you

Not sure what you mean by "super natural aspects of Christianity" can you elaborate on this.

I don't believe in God or gods, so think parts of the Bible are historical and other parts are allegorical or legends that have been blended together through oral tradition. I find reading the Bible to be interesting to see snap shots of understanding and culture of a people. Similar to how I read Norse or Hindu mythology.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Milk-Drops I'm curious about something as you have been in these forums for almost as long as I have. Let me ask you first of all why are you here, even though you are more than welcomed to be here, and if one is a true atheists' why would they even want to talk about something they do not believe in? I always found that a little odd.

I'm not as active as I used to be. I originally joined when I was first questioning. I stay and come back because I like the discussion. I usually avoid getting into the weeds in the religious discussion. I am parts of other communities mainly for the discussion.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not as active as I used to be. I originally joined when I was first questioning. I stay and come back because I like the discussion. I usually avoid getting into the weeds in the religious discussion. I am parts of other communities mainly for the discussion.

You always seem very pleasant within your discussions and that is so appreciated.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's a tale with compelling characters, motives, and relatable themes. It's allegory. Since I am talking to people who are Christian. Jesus would give parables. The people didn't necessarily exist, but the point of the stories still stood. I see several parts of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as a mix of historical and allegorical texts. I differentiate that from a lie, because the point of a lie is to decide. I don't think the authors of the Books of the Bible were trying to decieve.

I agree with you that it's a tale with all the ingredients you listed.

But it's still a lie because the story never happened. This might not be worth debating.
I never really considered this. The parables of Jesus were not truth but taught a truth. So the stories were a lie that ,taught a truth ?

However, in a parable there is no INTENTION TO DECEIVE. And neither does this intention exist in Lord of the Flies.

decide. Think a God would be beyond understanding of humans. This is why I don't see people who believe in a God or gods any differently than me. I just think it's a difference of philosophical stand points.

Philosophy is a way of arriving at truth, as is theology.

I agree with you that God is not knowable. Somehow, however, there's a desire on God's part to let Himself be known. Thus this desire in persons for there to be a higher power and to desire to know where we come from, who is our creator.

Someone once told me that if we can think of something it once existed, does exist or will in the future. If we can think of a god, then He must exist.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I don’t think scaring people into repentance is necessary or effective. Jesus did it but that was completely different. Plant seeds hope and pray that God gives the increase.

 

[jasonc]

I don’t think scaring people into repentance is necessary or effective. Jesus did it but that was completely different. Plant seeds hope and pray that God gives the increase.

telling sinners that Jesus loves them while they murder works better?
and yes I have seen that

 

[Randy]

Why would I think Paul is a liar? Do I think The budha, from, or muhamed are liars? No I think these people are part of their naratives.


Hey, did you know that Martin the Warrior Defeated Sarmeina of the Green Eyes and Redwall Abby was constructed on the remains of her castle. Or is Martin a liar?

Paul stated he didn't learn the gospel from any man but from revelation from God. He, just as the gospels, testifies that Jesus was the Son of God who was crucified and that God had raised Jesus from the dead. He also shows a Jesus who was before the world began and through whom the creation was made.

So Paul's message which he stated that he learned from God is cohesive with the gospels message. Even though you seem to imply the apostles weren't the liars as they didn't write the gospels.

You claim you look at intent. Paul suffered greatly for Jesus's name and his intent is clear just as his stated source is clear.