Growth Auswitzch and the Jews

[for_his_glory]

Thank you for validating the uselessness of only keeping the Sabeth.

Israel is only of value if they point to Jesus.

No one is saved by anyother means than faith in Jesus.

If no one is saved by any other means than faith in Jesus, which is true on this side of the cross, than what about those Israelites that walked by faith in God before the cross of Jesus. Why are you so against keeping the sabbath day of rest as God blessed and sanctified the seventh day as all His work was finished and He rested in that day. God blessed it, made it a holy day as we continue to keep in remembrance of all that God created.

I would think that many of the Jews that were kept in the concentration camps would have kept the sabbath day in remembrance of God's creation as that is what this day is for.

 

[for_his_glory]

There is one very big problem with seeing Israel as a fulfillment of prophesy and that is that in the OT the return was always of the faithfull Jew. Israel is a secular state. Something God hates a state of people who do not worship him.

Whether man deems Israel a secular state or not it is still God's promised land and Jerusalem His Holy City as that will never change. What changes is how God see's one to be unworthy by how and what they worship.

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshipping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism, 1Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

Auschwitz and Hitler is no different than that of the army's that Nebuchadnezzar controlled. Same as the control the Roman military were under that persecuted the Jews to death and even crucified Christ.

God still sits patiently waiting for all Jews and Gentiles to come and call on His name again like that of Seth and his son Enosh who invoked others to come back to God, Genesis 4:26. Just as we are also to invoke others to come back to God. It's not God that causes destruction brought on man, but man that brings it on themselves as they have walked away from obedience to God. It is God that works through the destruction of man to get their attention.

 

[stovebolts]

The state of Israel keeps the Sabeth, but they are a secular state. They do not promote the worship of God. Effectively they are effectivly an atheistic state.

Sure, just like the United States is atheistic as well as many other countries.

What does any of that have to do with what you said below?

You said: In the NT and following God deals with individuals. What a state does is no indication of whether that state pleases God or not.

If your above statement is true, then why bring up any athiestic country? And why do you bring up Israel in post 5?

I'm not following what point your trying to make.

I'll go out on a limb here. Are you trying to say God hates Israel?

 

[Who Me]

If no one is saved by any other means than faith in Jesus, which is true on this side of the cross, than what about those Israelites that walked by faith in God before the cross of Jesus. Why are you so against keeping the sabbath day of rest as God blessed and sanctified the seventh day as all His work was finished and He rested in that day. God blessed it, made it a holy day as we continue to keep in remembrance of all that God created.

I would think that many of the Jews that were kept in the concentration camps would have kept the sabbath day in remembrance of God's creation as that is what this day is for.

And God being outside of time cannot apply the blood of Jesus to those who are trusting in him?

Your idea of God is too small and limited.

As to the sabeth, all I've say is that keeping the sabeth on its own is useless. Israels sabeth keeping does nothing for them if it doesn't bring them to Jesus.

 

[Who Me]

Sure, just like the United States is atheistic as well as many other countries.

What does any of that have to do with what you said below?

You said: In the NT and following God deals with individuals. What a state does is no indication of whether that state pleases God or not.

If your above statement is true, then why bring up any athiestic country? And why do you bring up Israel in post 5?

I'm not following what point your trying to make.

I'll go out on a limb here. Are you trying to say God hates Israel?

That just because Israel keeps the sabeth means nothing.

Prior to Jesus's ministry God dealt with the nation of Israel as a unit, following Jesus he no longer deals with Israel but deals with each of us as individuals.

 

[Nathan12]

As to the sabeth...

That would be sabbath or Shabbat.

 

[th1b.taylor]

If no one is saved by any other means than faith in Jesus, which is true on this side of the cross, than what about those Israelites that walked by faith in God before the cross of Jesus. Why are you so against keeping the sabbath day of rest as God blessed and sanctified the seventh day as all His work was finished and He rested in that day. God blessed it, made it a holy day as we continue to keep in remembrance of all that God created.

I would think that many of the Jews that were kept in the concentration camps would have kept the sabbath day in remembrance of God's creation as that is what this day is for.

fHg,
Folks without the Indwelling always, it seems, become Democrat Angry at my, even, suggesting this but there is a correct answer for any situation in our lives. After years and years of Ruach led teaching coupled with my learning to submit have learned and am learning more every day to give my will over to His.

With that in mind the answer is clear in Matthew 27:50-55. ESV
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice and yielded up his spirit.

51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many. 54 When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, “Truly this was the Son[a] of God!”

55 There were also many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him, 56 among whom were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.

There are two, major, divisions of Jew, much the same as there are two major divisions of Gentiles. There are Jewish Believers and Jews that are born into the blood-line and believe not.

We must remember that our Space/Time Continuum does not affect on anyone not living the Natural Life that locks them into this Time/Space Continuum.

Those Jewish Saints heard Yashuah preach the Gospel while they were in Paradise/Abraham's Buxom when He paid for their sins with His Blood and death on the cross.

The same is true of every man, woman and child that was burned in those ovens built by A. Hiter.

 

[for_his_glory]

And God being outside of time cannot apply the blood of Jesus to those who are trusting in him?

This makes no sense what you said here. If we are trusting in the Lord than we are already His own by faith through God's grace, which has always been from the beginning starting with Adam. The first blood sacrifice was made by God as He clothed Adam and Eve with animal skins, Genesis 3:21. Jesus who now sits at the right hand of God who makes intercession for us was made the final blood sacrifice as we no longer sacrifice animals as the Israelites were commanded to do.

Sabbath has nothing to do with God's salvation as it is for a day of remembrance of all God created in six days and rested on the seventh from all His work. But we are straying away from the OP as the sabbath has nothing to do with how God can use disasters to draw us to Him.

 

[Who Me]

This makes no sense what you said here. If we are trusting in the Lord than we are already His own by faith through God's grace, which has always been from the beginning starting with Adam. The first blood sacrifice was made by God as He clothed Adam and Eve with animal skins, Genesis 3:21. Jesus who now sits at the right hand of God who makes intercession for us was made the final blood sacrifice as we no longer sacrifice animals as the Israelites were commanded to do.

Sabbath has nothing to do with God's salvation as it is for a day of remembrance of all God created in six days and rested on the seventh from all His work. But we are straying away from the OP as the sabbath has nothing to do with how God can use disasters to draw us to Him.

I replied to what you said'If no one is saved by any other means than faith in Jesus, which is true on this side of the cross, than what about those Israelites that walked by faith in God before the cross of Jesus.'

God is outside of time. Time is part of his creation.
He therefore can applied Jesus's salvation to those who have faithfully sort to serve him durring their earthly lives.

They have to live their lifes before he washes them in Jesus's blood.

The comments about the sabeth are relating to thoise who think that Israel is 'holy' because they keep the sabeth.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I replied to what you said'If no one is saved by any other means than faith in Jesus, which is true on this side of the cross, than what about those Israelites that walked by faith in God before the cross of Jesus.'

God is outside of time. Time is part of his creation.
He therefore can applied Jesus's salvation to those who have faithfully sort to serve him durring their earthly lives.

They have to live their lifes before he washes them in Jesus's blood.

The comments about the sabeth are relating to thoise who think that Israel is 'holy' because they keep the sabeth.

I do not mean to attempt to be aggressive here but fHg is on target with exactly what the whole of what YHWH´s Holy Scripture says.

I make this statement, standing on a two foot wide, three inch deep Granite Ledge as you, from the solid mountain begin your swing with that thirteen pound Sledge Hammer.

The Scriptures have lost so much with the tampering of men trying to make it easier to comprehend and I sense that you have not been properly instructed on and of your Bible Study Method.

Now, if you will permit, I will add to you possible swing and strike a Rubber Band, about 18 inches broad that is stretched down about ten feet to catch the head as it hangs from the giant 200 ft. tall Spruce Limb. I almost, remember almost, graduated the Eighth Grade before I entered the Service of My Nation at seventeen.

The Lost Man loves that truth and like the foolish humans they are, they swing at the ledge, administering, as they, falsely, perceive, the fatal blow. Not falling, however, I still, from my stupid wheelchair, proclaim what I am given by Ruach, the Holy Spirit.

If folks will ever give up their perception of the, Phony, importance of the Chapter and Verse Division that has been applied to the afore undivided letters to the people that sought and seek to serve YHWH, Yashuah ha'Mashiah through Ruach's leading and pure hearts.

I am not large on the use of the Creeds by Young, Baby nor New Christians but if you will google the Creeds and read some through you will find the early and just missed teaching that Yashuah went to Hell.

With 29 1/2 years of Complete Bible Study I was led of Ruach to understand that Yashuah desended into the Earth, the Grave but afore hand, at His Yielding of His Spirit, appeared in Paradise/Abraham's Buxom to teach the Gospel of the Messiah they served before His Advent.

Now comes Matthew 27:50-60 where we are or should be taught, those Saints, on hearing and on believing Yashuah's Gospel, marched through the Holy City, with all of the Earth shrouded in darkness, as a Live Testament to the Truth/Gospel of our Elohim.

I pray YHWH blesses all truth to your heart.

 

[for_his_glory]

I replied to what you said'If no one is saved by any other means than faith in Jesus, which is true on this side of the cross, than what about those Israelites that walked by faith in God before the cross of Jesus.'

God is outside of time. Time is part of his creation.
He therefore can applied Jesus's salvation to those who have faithfully sort to serve him durring their earthly lives.

They have to live their lifes before he washes them in Jesus's blood.

The comments about the sabeth are relating to thoise who think that Israel is 'holy' because they keep the sabeth.

None of this answers my question I asked you about the Israelites walking by faith before Jesus started His ministry while walking here on earth. How were they saved before the cross of Jesus?

Who said that Israel was holy by keeping the sabbath? There are I believe seven different Sabbath's, but the sabbath we are all to keep is that of Genesis 2:1-3 as a day of rest and remembrance of all God created.

 

[Who Me]

I do not mean to attempt to be aggressive here but fHg is on target with exactly what the whole of what YHWH´s Holy Scripture says.

I make this statement, standing on a two foot wide, three inch deep Granite Ledge as you, from the solid mountain begin your swing with that thirteen pound Sledge Hammer.

The Scriptures have lost so much with the tampering of men trying to make it easier to comprehend and I sense that you have not been properly instructed on and of your Bible Study Method.

Now, if you will permit, I will add to you possible swing and strike a Rubber Band, about 18 inches broad that is stretched down about ten feet to catch the head as it hangs from the giant 200 ft. tall Spruce Limb. I almost, remember almost, graduated the Eighth Grade before I entered the Service of My Nation at seventeen.

The Lost Man loves that truth and like the foolish humans they are, they swing at the ledge, administering, as they, falsely, perceive, the fatal blow. Not falling, however, I still, from my stupid wheelchair, proclaim what I am given by Ruach, the Holy Spirit.

If folks will ever give up their perception of the, Phony, importance of the Chapter and Verse Division that has been applied to the afore undivided letters to the people that sought and seek to serve YHWH, Yashuah ha'Mashiah through Ruach's leading and pure hearts.

I am not large on the use of the Creeds by Young, Baby nor New Christians but if you will google the Creeds and read some through you will find the early and just missed teaching that Yashuah went to Hell.

With 29 1/2 years of Complete Bible Study I was led of Ruach to understand that Yashuah desended into the Earth, the Grave but afore hand, at His Yielding of His Spirit, appeared in Paradise/Abraham's Buxom to teach the Gospel of the Messiah they served before His Advent.

Now comes Matthew 27:50-60 where we are or should be taught, those Saints, on hearing and on believing Yashuah's Gospel, marched through the Holy City, with all of the Earth shrouded in darkness, as a Live Testament to the Truth/Gospel of our Elohim.

I pray YHWH blesses all truth to your heart.

None of what you have said here makes any sense.

 

[Who Me]

None of this answers my question I asked you about the Israelites walking by faith before Jesus started His ministry while walking here on earth. How were they saved before the cross of Jesus?

Who said that Israel was holy by keeping the sabbath? There are I believe seven different Sabbath's, but the sabbath we are all to keep is that of Genesis 2:1-3 as a day of rest and remembrance of all God created.

They were saved by Jesus's death and resurection through their faith in God.
Just as Abrahams faith was credited to him as rightousness so he ultimatly was saved by the blood of Jesus.

 

[th1b.taylor]

None of what you have said here makes any sense.

First and foremost let's be perfectly clear. Any member of our Messiahs Church, not people with their names on the Local Membership Rolls but Real Christian, Indwelt, Members with their names recorded in the Book of Life.

WM, there is a wealth of instruction between the lines of the Holy Word of YHWH and the answer I have shared with you contains a fragment of our Triune Elohim's Wisdom meant to be understood by those dying to self but a mystery unto those not filled with and led by Ruach in their moment to moment.

I know not your Spiritual Condition but I have watched members vacate my class in good old boy groups as large as twelve at a time because I wanted every member to ber Infilled and Indwelt with Ruacn, the so called Holy Spirit of YHWH, our Most Holy Elohim.

I pray Ruach overcome and Infill your heart so that you need not old sinners like me to explain that which our Elohim strains to reveal to you. Guide this one Yasahuah please.

 

[for_his_glory]

They were saved by Jesus's death and resurection through their faith in God.
Just as Abrahams faith was credited to him as rightousness so he ultimatly was saved by the blood of Jesus.

Just exactly how could anyone be saved by the blood of Jesus before it was ever shed for us or as far as that goes even before Jesus began His ministry here on earth? Please give me scripture so I can go study what you have said.

 

[Nathan12]

Just exactly how could anyone be saved by the blood of Jesus before it was ever shed for us or as far as that goes even before Jesus began His ministry here on earth?

In God's eyes, the Lamb of God (the Lord Jesus Christ) was slain from BEFORE the foundation of the world (1 Pet 1:18-20). Which means that God already saw Christ's blood as being shed, and efficacious for His saints.
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things,as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you...

The elect of God (those justified or saved by grace) were also predestined to be perfected in Christ from BEFORE the foundation of the world. The OT saints and the NT saints were all included (Eph 1:3-7).
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[for_his_glory]

In God's eyes, the Lamb of God (the Lord Jesus Christ) was slain from BEFORE the foundation of the world (1 Pet 1:18-20). Which means that God already saw Christ's blood as being shed, and efficacious for His saints.
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things,as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you...

The elect of God (those justified or saved by grace) were also predestined to be perfected in Christ from BEFORE the foundation of the world. The OT saints and the NT saints were all included (Eph 1:3-7).
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Exodus 12:5 and Isaiah 53 are foreshadows or in other words was Jesus only being foreordained before the foundation of the world (as in God's purpose), but was manifest in these last times for you (final blood sacrifice). Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory that your faith and hope might be in God, 1 Peter 1:20, 21.

Romans 8:29, 30; Ephesians 1:4-12; 1 Thessalonians 1:2-5 also speaks of God's predestination of His elect before the foundation of the world that we are to be conformed to the image of His Son. The doctrine of election according to scripture is that God chooses, determines, elects and predestines who will be saved. The fact that believers are elect is undisputable.

Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are saved by grace through faith from the beginning starting with Adam. We are not saved by the blood of Jesus, but redeemed from our sin by the final blood sacrifice Christ made for all who will believe by faith in Him.

 

[Count Duckula]

Auswitzch was only one of many concentration camps and EXTERMINATION CAMPS:

	Auschwitz-Birkenau Belzec Bergen-Belsen Buchenwald Chelmno Dachau Ebensee Flossenbürg Gross-Rosen Janowska Kaiserwald Majdanek Mauthausen-Gusen Natzweiler-Struthof Neuengamme Nordhausen (Dora-Mittelbau) Sachsenhausen (Oranienburg) Plaszow Ravensbrück Sobibor Stutthof Terezin (Theresienstadt) Treblinka Westerbork

Death figures
in extermination camps

Treblinka​	​ 870,000​ [292]
Auschwitz II​	1,100,000​	[286]
Bełżec​	600,000​	[287]
Chełmno​	320,000​	[288]
Majdanek​	78,000​	[289]
Maly Trostinets​	65,000​	[290]
Sobibór​	250,000​	[291]

Be advised this adds to less than 6 million. Check your countries laws. You can be jailed for decades for this.

 

[ezra]

We are saved by grace through faith from the beginning starting with Adam. We are not saved by the blood of Jesus, but redeemed from our sin by the final blood sacrifice Christ made for all who will believe by faith in Him.

we are saved by the Blood for as the shedding of the Blood is part of Grace Christ took our place on the cross so we can be forgiven. the resurrection gives us the new life . the Blood paid the price

 

[Nathan12]

We are not saved by the blood of Jesus...

That is a totally false statement. Please check your Bible.

And what you did in this post #37 is refused to accept what is clearly stated in the Bible about what God did BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

So this post is definitely not for His glory.