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Bad doctrine

Christ_empowered said:
Ugh 😑 I am not holier than thou but…

I think 🤔 maybe God had mercy on me and now my mindset is more Biblical…

Despite a lot of people around me and indoctrination…

Ugh 😑 thankful but frustrating…

Anyone have similar experiences?
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In a discipleship class I teach on Sunday evenings at my brother's church, a woman remarked, "If we say we've matured, that we've advanced spiritually, and are farther along than other believers, don't we come off as arrogant, and sort of self-righteous?"

I replied: "If we are discipling others into a deeper walk with God, into spiritual maturity, those we disciple are going to want to know that we are living in the experience with God into which we're discipling them."

It's a pet-peeve of mine that Bible preachers and teachers prescribe certain spiritual principles and courses of action to fellow believers and then say things like, "But I'm struggling in this area myself," or "I'm still working this out, as well," or "I've got my own struggles and failures." Look, if you (the general "you," not you specifically, Christ_empowered) aren't living in the spiritual success you've just taught others is possible, and to whom you've prescribed a process whereby they can achieve that success, keep your mouth shut! My first thought when I hear Bible preachers and teachers admit to not living consistently and completely in the things they teach is: Aren't you declaring yourself a hypocrite? Aren't you undercutting the very principles and actions you say will "work" spiritually? If they haven't brought you to the spiritual success you say is possible, don't prescribe them to me!

Anyway, it's not wrong to claim spiritual growth has happened in your life. In fact, if you can't, there's something very wrong between you and God. Where there's life, there's always growth and change. If the life of Christ is in you, there will be - there must be - a corresponding change in you. Don't be afraid to talk about that change! Others need to hear that the transformation God says is possible, actually occurs in the lives of His children (and, of course, they need to be able to see it, too).

2 Corinthians 3:18 (NASB)
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-24 (NASB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Ephesians 5:9 (NASB)
9 (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth),

Hebrews 5:14 (NASB)
14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Hebrews 6:1 (NASB)
1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
 
There will always be conflicts within the various doctrines that are out there and what we see in the forums as so many are indoctrinated by man's teachings as they neglect what has already been written.

2Tim2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Tim 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
 
Tenchi said:
In a discipleship class I teach on Sunday evenings at my brother's church, a woman remarked, "If we say we've matured, that we've advanced spiritually, and are farther along than other believers, don't we come off as arrogant, and sort of self-righteous?"

I replied: "If we are discipling others into a deeper walk with God, into spiritual maturity, those we disciple are going to want to know that we are living in the experience with God into which we're discipling them."

It's a pet-peeve of mine that Bible preachers and teachers prescribe certain spiritual principles and courses of action to fellow believers and then say things like, "But I'm struggling in this area myself," or "I'm still working this out, as well," or "I've got my own struggles and failures." Look, if you (the general "you," not you specifically, Christ_empowered) aren't living in the spiritual success you've just taught others is possible, and to whom you've prescribed a process whereby they can achieve that success, keep your mouth shut! My first thought when I hear Bible preachers and teachers admit to not living consistently and completely in the things they teach is: Aren't you declaring yourself a hypocrite? Aren't you undercutting the very principles and actions you say will "work" spiritually? If they haven't brought you to the spiritual success you say is possible, don't prescribe them to me!

Anyway, it's not wrong to claim spiritual growth has happened in your life. In fact, if you can't, there's something very wrong between you and God. Where there's life, there's always growth and change. If the life of Christ is in you, there will be - there must be - a corresponding change in you. Don't be afraid to talk about that change! Others need to hear that the transformation God says is possible, actually occurs in the lives of His children (and, of course, they need to be able to see it, too).

2 Corinthians 3:18 (NASB)
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-24 (NASB)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Ephesians 5:9 (NASB)
9 (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth),

Hebrews 5:14 (NASB)
14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Hebrews 6:1 (NASB)
1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
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If we are truly teaching others the doctrines of Christ, but claiming we are perfect and follow all His instructions then that makes us a liar as none of us are perfect yet and will mess up at times. This is why God gives us His mercy and grace as He sees the areas we struggle with, but yet to also be able to overcome that which we yet struggle with.

1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cor 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cor 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above verses have not happened yet as Christ has not returned yet. Meanwhile while we live in this corruptible body, let's not forget that we need to be walking in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh, Galatians 5:16-26.
 
I have grown in Christ which has resulted in growth at all levels. He moves in different believer’s lives as He sees fit but I don’t think I’d have the beginnings of a quiet peaceful life if He hadn’t helped get my mindset more correct.

My problem is how…ok I see now this is a classic problem…

A lot of church teaching is positive psychology plus biblical references or progressive teachings with some talk about Jesus being poor or…

On and on. Frustrating because it seems to be all over the ideological spectrum so basically inescapable,

Thanks for the replies.
 
Christ_empowered said:
I have grown in Christ which has resulted in growth at all levels. He moves in different believer’s lives as He sees fit but I don’t think I’d have the beginnings of a quiet peaceful life if He hadn’t helped get my mindset more correct.

My problem is how…ok I see now this is a classic problem…

A lot of church teaching is positive psychology plus biblical references or progressive teachings with some talk about Jesus being poor or…

On and on. Frustrating because it seems to be all over the ideological spectrum so basically inescapable,

Thanks for the replies.
Click to expand...
Personally, I like what you write. It is honest and shows a humility without religious smugness. It shows you actually THINK about what you write not merely cut and paste reams of scripture sans thinking.
 
for_his_glory said:
If we are truly teaching others the doctrines of Christ, but claiming we are perfect and follow all His instructions then that makes us a liar as none of us are perfect yet and will mess up at times. This is why God gives us His mercy and grace as He sees the areas we struggle with, but yet to also be able to overcome that which we yet struggle with.
Click to expand...

I never said anything about anyone being perfect, only mature spiritually and living well in the life in Christ they teach others to pursue. Too often these days, the supposedly "mature" in Christ undercut their claim to maturity by confessing to the very things their claim to spiritual maturity should preclude. Worse, those new, or immature, in the faith, looking for the reality of God in the lives of the believers around them, encounter only people who are eager, not to proclaim a genuine, concrete, lasting transformation of their lives by God, but to declare that their lives are just as messy, just as full of sin and struggle, as the life of any new believer!

And the devil just laughs.
 
Good thread

Romans 7:25 kjv
25. I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We often talk about trinity.

Do we realize we are not just one homogenized lump? The law was placed in our heart and mind. The heart is close to our flesh. We are aware of our sins. The dominion of sin should be gone, but as mentioned the last trump has not sounded. We are not yet what we shall be

The law is in our mind (spirit of our mind). With him working in us to will and do of his good pleasure. Credit goes to him working in us.

Elihu thought he had something of man that let him know what was good. That is bad doctrine. Don’t get me wrong. I thought Elihu was great for years. He thought he knew but God said.

Job 38:2 kjv
2. Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

He was not talking about Job.
Then God begins to talk to Job. And says speak as a man. Not an exalted (in that has it all together), but as a man.

Old Testament you say. Sounds a lot like Paul.

We do crucify the flesh, but sinless has not arrived yet.

Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
It’s just…a lot of it is not the good news. A lot of it isn’t even compatible with the good news…

And it’s not even helpful at building better people. Ugh 😑

The Good News…

Brings the power of Christ of repentance and forgiveness and redemption and restoration and real fundamental to the core change.

Why is so much in the modern church standing in the way?
 
Psychology and psychiatry for one. More talking pros than pills in the Baptist churches around but they go hand in hand.

Politics. A lifelong elderly Christian literally implied while speaking to me that Biden winning the election could usher in Armageddon.

Social class. Too much stuff not enough stuff lifestyle issues…ugh.
 
Christ_empowered said:
It’s just…a lot of it is not the good news. A lot of it isn’t even compatible with the good news…
And it’s not even helpful at building better people. Ugh 😑
The Good News…
Brings the power of Christ of repentance and forgiveness and redemption and restoration and real fundamental to the core change.

Why is so much in the modern church standing in the way?
Click to expand...
Because they are not the church Christ set up.
 
John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus.

Bad news was that man need to repent.

Repentance leaves you wit the need for forgiveness.

The good news is that Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice for sin.

Repent yes. Stop with just repentance is not the answer. Believe in the one who comes after John the Baptist, Jesus work is good news.

For some reason modern times leaves off the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

When we seek to do good evil lies close at hand. He works in us to will and do of his good pleasure. It seems we want the credit.

Well I have one frown already, and this may get another. There is good news, but the bad news comes first. Than the good news. Then the announcement that you need power. Then power to be a witness. Then the final hope for change at the last trump.

Why all the steps? I did not write the books.

Our genetics were written by God. Lot of steps from the thought of man existing to full development.

The second birth is a spiritual reality and need.

The law of Moses seems to announce sin. The law placed in our heart and mind seems much better.


Mississippi redneck
eddif
 
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