Being Perfect

[watchman F]

Originally Posted by watchman F
This is a cop out. God has commanded that we live holy, righteous, perfected live. Moreover He has empowered us to do so through faith in christ and the empowerment of His Spirit. If we live in disobediance to this command there will be consequences.

Cop-out? For what? It's the truth that God sees us as already perfect and holy. He sees what He has planned for us.

As King's kids, we walk with Him daily and follow Him.

Then you continue in sin, and see where that leads you.

 

[Alabaster]

Then you continue in sin, and see where that leads you.

And so do you.

 

[elijah23]

We can only STRIVE to be perfect; we can only BE perfect when God changes us ...

The Lord shows us what to do, but then we need to do it, I believe.

 

[Elijah674]

Then you continue in sin, and see where that leads you.

What happens? In time the conscience will become so hardened that the Holy Spirit cannot move the individual! (See Gen. 6:3 along with Rev. 16 SICK mess?) One becomes both the BroadWay Eternally lost ones of Matt. 7. And prophesied as Finished in Obad. 1:16, & if they are alive in our day?? They ARE PROPHESIED as Rev. 17:1-5 THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH. These think that they are saved in sin and not to be overcomers of sin.

Yet, when one puts their best effort into perfection, (Heb. 12:4-8) that is all that Christ asks, for He can now do the rest! Rom. 8:14='s Rom. 2:13! And it is laid out for us in Phil. 3:12-16 from start to faiths finished maturity if one remains such. (James 1:15)

And to 'teach' otherwise?? Read the LAST WARNING'S of Inspiration for these ones!

 

[Michael C]

To strive for perfection is the goal, but in our humble state, there is always room for improvement. Hence, true perfection is just an illusion...except for that of the life of Jesus.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It's a BAD thing -

"Please don’t tell me that self-discipline is a bad thing."

It's a BAD thing - IF - you think that practicing it will "justify you before God" in any way whatsoever.

Salvation is NOT by "Works", and the ONLY "Righteousness" you will EVER possess - is that which JESUS clothes you with IN SPITE of your human depravity.

In other respects, "Self discipline" is just fine.

 

[jasoncran]

Hi, Jasoncran, how are you?

Here we are discussing the same old issue.

I grant that we need the Lord’s help to accomplish this, but I still believe it needs to be accomplished:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

paul died in not being perfect. theres no reason to say that he wasnt totally sin free.santification isnt perfection when we die, just the purging of the dross.

surely if paul died in perfection. he then would be so much like christ death wouldnt be.

the reason we have to die is this, we have too as its written. for this corruption must put incorruption.

the body is a seed and must be buried so that the new body can be raised.

 

[elijah23]

To strive for perfection is the goal, but in our humble state, there is always room for improvement. Hence, true perfection is just an illusion...except for that of the life of Jesus.

Jesus told us we need to be perfect.

 

[Deavonreye]

A couple of thoughts from the other side.

A human can never be "perfect". Why? Humans are defined by the struggle to better the condition they are in. If they obtain the level of "perfection", they wouldn't be able to be called truly human. That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, because humanity has the potential of such horrors. But humans are what they are. They have needs that they require, barring them from ever being "perfect", and should the BE "perfect", that "human condition" would no longer be, . . . . it would be destroyed.

Having said that, wouldn't "perfection" also [by definition] be a state of stagnation? Would motivation be elliminated, at that point? Could we be who are are, now, . . . at that moment? I think not.

So, what would it mean to "acheive perfection"? It would have to be the destruction of humanity, . . . possibly being more like angels. But the person each of us are, would no longer be. Seriously think about your life? What do you really find important? Desire to find love, be loved, acheive status, live in a better house than before, want to look nice to others, find food to satisfy the pallet, . . . desire what may not be good for you, . . . etc. To put it simply, our propensity to sin is what makes us who we are. It is what you all say that "god still loved" . . . "while you were still sinners . . . " So, considering that, . . . what do you suppose that your god really wants?

Just some thoughts.

 

[elijah23]

paul died in not being perfect. theres no reason to say that he wasnt totally sin free.santification isnt perfection when we die, just the purging of the dross.

surely if paul died in perfection. he then would be so much like christ death wouldnt be.

the reason we have to die is this, we have too as its written. for this corruption must put incorruption.

the body is a seed and must be buried so that the new body can be raised.

We cannot have peace of mind until we repent of our sin, I do not believe.

 

[jasoncran]

We cannot have peace of mind until we repent of our sin, I do not believe.

paul wasnt a sinner but to say that he was so great in christ that he no longer sinned at all is simply a fallacy.

we are so far from God that we could never on this earth become him, and that my friend is what you are saying that we can be just like christ as in we dont sin while on this earth. that isnt supported in the bible.

otherwise john the apostle was wrong as well.

 

[elijah23]

paul wasnt a sinner but to say that he was so great in christ that he no longer sinned at all is simply a fallacy.

we are so far from God that we could never on this earth become him, and that my friend is what you are saying that we can be just like christ as in we dont sin while on this earth. that isnt supported in the bible.

otherwise john the apostle was wrong as well.

I believe peace of mind begins when sin ends.

 

[jasoncran]

I believe peace of mind begins when sin ends.

that isnt what the bible says. or what you are saying.

heaven isnt a place of christian nirvana. GOD resides there!

 

[watchman F]

Originally Posted by watchman F
Then you continue in sin, and see where that leads you.

And so do you.

Actually it is my intention to bring myself into obedience to Christ.
1st Corinthians 15
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

2nd Corinthians 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Galtians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lust.

Philippians 2
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

1st John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[elijah23]

that isnt what the bible says. or what you are saying.

heaven isnt a place of christian nirvana. GOD resides there!

My experience is that when I haven’t committed a serious sin for a while, my worries vanish.

 

[theLords]

My experience is that when I haven’t committed a serious sin for a while, my worries vanish.

So you're sinless?

Uh-oh..

 

[elijah23]

heaven isnt a place of christian nirvana. GOD resides there!

The Lord lives inside each of us, right?

 

[jasoncran]

My experience is that when I haven’t committed a serious sin for a while, my worries vanish.

that isnt heaven , we arent in heaven, and uh this verse that shoots that one down

all they that will live for christ shall suffer persecution.


so being sin-free on this earth (or close to it) doesnt mean we wont suffer or have worries.

in fact that is a promise!!!!!!

 

[jasoncran]

The Lord lives inside each of us, right?

wow, why then does it say the the lord is coming for his own and will keep them in the time of jacob's troubles.

what is he keeping us from?

and where are we going when we die

"for to be absent in body is to be present with the lord"

we have sin around us when we are wrapped in the dying body and that does affect how much of God we expercience.

other wise why would paul write this for me to die is gain!our inner man is wanting to be with the lord.

yes we have him but we long to shed this sin nature that is on us.

 

[elijah23]

So you're sinless?

Uh-oh..

I try very hard not to sin because of the indescribable peace of mind that results. Paul calls it being a “slave of righteousnessâ€:

[17] But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
[18] and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. Romans 6:17-18 RSV